David Tilbrook / QEF - Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[bzs]

Let me say a few words about David Tilbrook.

Unlike the author of that very nice linked article below I knew David
quite well. I co-chaired a couple of Usenix conferences with him and
even flew to Toronto for his daughter's bat mitzvah (umm, because he
invited me), etc.

He was very smart, he'd spent years at the CS dept at CMU and on other
projects. Ron Baecker (CMU prof) credits David's student work as
fundamental to his 2005 SIGCHI award.

His focus was always on how do we make complex problems (in software
engineering) simpler and easier to understand and manage?

This short article credits him with the quip:

  "Whenever faced with a problem, some people say `Lets use _.'
   Now, they have two problems."

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5187686

He was very funny and very likeable.

I remember when we drew quite a participatory crowd at a San Francisco
Hilton Usenix conference (about 3,000 attendees) by starting a
penny-pitching contest -- toss pennies or other coins towards a wall
from some distance, whoever is closest to the wall in each round keeps
them all. It got quite out of hand but was a typical Tilbrook "well,
we might as well have some fun!"

Indeed, David, we might as well have some fun.

On January 25, 2021 at 12:12 j...@reptiles.org (Jim Mercer) wrote:
 > 
 > unrelated, but, David Tilbrook, an early Unix pioneer, passed away a week or
 > so ago.  due to COVID.
 > 
 > https://leahneukirchen.org/blog/archive/2021/01/remembering-the-work-of-david-m-tilbrook-and-the-qed-editor.html
 > 
 > 
 > 
 > --jim
 > 
 > 
 > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 04:59:27PM +, Mel Beckman wrote:
 > > So often we report here on nanog the passing of major Internet 
 > > contributors, it seems even more fitting that we support these 
 > > contributors when they???re in need through no fault of their own. Thanks 
 > > for posting this, Jim. 
 > > 
 > > -mel
 > > 
 > > > On Jan 25, 2021, at 8:40 AM, Jim Mercer  wrote:
 > > > 
 > > > ???
 > > > unsure if this is allowed or not, but, here goes.
 > > > 
 > > > https://www.gofundme.com/f/ed-hew-medical-expenses
 > > > 
 > > > some of you may remember ed.
 > > > 
 > > > some, maybe not.
 > > > 
 > > > but, as the uucp maps maintainer for canada, he was quite influential in
 > > > the rise of email, and to some degree, the internet, in canada.
 > > > 
 > > > --jim
 > > > 
 > > > -- 
 > > > Jim Mercer Reptilian Research  j...@reptiles.org+1 416 
 > > > 410-5633
 > > > 
 > > > Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
 > > > arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather
 > > > to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up,
 > > > totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
 > > > -- Hunter S. Thompson
 > 
 > -- 
 > Jim Mercer Reptilian Research  j...@reptiles.org+1 416 410-5633
 > 
 > Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
 > arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather
 > to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up,
 > totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
 >  -- Hunter S. Thompson

-- 
-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

TPx Contact

[Levon Bragg]

Anyone from TPx that can contact me about a client account... Please reach out 
to me directly.
I cannot get my Account Manager to call me back, and have been on hold for 
almost an hour trying to get someone on the phone.

Thanks,
Levon

Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[Jim Mercer]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 01:41:35PM -0500, Tom Beecher wrote:
> I just don't want to see this devolve into a pissing match that ends up
> requiring a rule to be created about such things.

if we created rules for everything on this list that turned into a pissing 
match, we would have a lot of rules.

:-)

that being said, it was not my intent to start a deluge of requests for money,
or in memorial posts.

and, even if it did, those threads would soon die off, as with all the other
threads.

--jim

-- 
Jim Mercer Reptilian Research  j...@reptiles.org+1 416 410-5633

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather
to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up,
totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
 -- Hunter S. Thompson

Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[Tom Beecher]

I personally have no issue with the OP, or the idea of recognizing the work
of those who have come before.

I just don't want to see this devolve into a pissing match that ends up
requiring a rule to be created about such things.

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 1:31 PM Mel Beckman  wrote:

> Tom,
>
> I think it’s fair to defend good and decent ideas on NANOG.
>
> In my opinion, it’s a good and decent idea that we spend a tiny amount of
> bandwidth acknowledging Internet pioneers and helping them as they
> encounter unexpected adversity. Jim’s posting of Ed Hew’s GoFundMe is just
> such a good and decent idea. I think Jim for it.
>
> Not all of us are blessed with well-paying jobs and benefits at Fortune
> 500 companies. And health crises can strike any of us.
>
> There, but for the grace of God, go we all.
>
>   -mel
>
> On Jan 25, 2021, at 10:12 AM, Tom Beecher  wrote:
>
> Guys, let's maybe turn the temperature down a bit.
>
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 1:04 PM Mel Beckman  wrote:
>
>> Bill,
>>
>> So, we can only mention in this forum the actual death of Internet
>> pioneers, such as Mark Crispin, Jon Postel, and Jeanette Symons?
>>
>> What if the person’s health is tied to a major infrastructure component,
>> such as http://www.registry.ca?  No? Not a
>> valid “operational” case?
>>
>> Your position seems to be "let us nip this in sad news the bud, before it
>> spreads". Because, I guess, there are literally millions of selfless
>> Internet pioneers, and we don’t want NANOG to be flooded with their
>> memories, or at least their pleas for modest assistance as a token of
>> appreciation for their lifetime of contribution.
>>
>> “NANOG owes them nothing!”, you didn’t say, but I heard.
>>
>>  -mel
>>
>> On Jan 25, 2021, at 9:23 AM, William Herrin  wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 8:40 AM Jim Mercer  wrote:
>>
>> unsure if this is allowed or not, but, here goes.
>>
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>> This is a lie. If you weren't sure, you'd have asked if it was ok to
>> do the thing without actually doing the thing. That you went ahead and
>> did it says you were pretty sure it was against the rules and figured
>> you could get away with it. You may be right but the lie compounds the
>> offense.
>>
>> I'm sorry to hear about Ed. Nevertheless, a lot of us are getting on
>> in age and health and the Internet doesn't need another mailing list
>> about how sad it is to grow old.
>>
>> May I suggest: spend a line in your signature block on the off-topic
>> things you want folks on this group to know. And then attach it only
>> to messages which are on topic.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bill Herrin
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[Mel Beckman]

Tom,

I think it’s fair to defend good and decent ideas on NANOG.

In my opinion, it’s a good and decent idea that we spend a tiny amount of 
bandwidth acknowledging Internet pioneers and helping them as they encounter 
unexpected adversity. Jim’s posting of Ed Hew’s GoFundMe is just such a good 
and decent idea. I think Jim for it.

Not all of us are blessed with well-paying jobs and benefits at Fortune 500 
companies. And health crises can strike any of us.

There, but for the grace of God, go we all.

  -mel

On Jan 25, 2021, at 10:12 AM, Tom Beecher 
mailto:beec...@beecher.cc>> wrote:

Guys, let's maybe turn the temperature down a bit.

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 1:04 PM Mel Beckman 
mailto:m...@beckman.org>> wrote:
Bill,

So, we can only mention in this forum the actual death of Internet pioneers, 
such as Mark Crispin, Jon Postel, and Jeanette Symons?

What if the person’s health is tied to a major infrastructure component, such 
as http://www.registry.ca? No? Not a valid 
“operational” case?

Your position seems to be "let us nip this in sad news the bud, before it 
spreads". Because, I guess, there are literally millions of selfless Internet 
pioneers, and we don’t want NANOG to be flooded with their memories, or at 
least their pleas for modest assistance as a token of appreciation for their 
lifetime of contribution.

“NANOG owes them nothing!”, you didn’t say, but I heard.

 -mel

On Jan 25, 2021, at 9:23 AM, William Herrin 
mailto:b...@herrin.us>> wrote:

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 8:40 AM Jim Mercer 
mailto:j...@reptiles.org>> wrote:
unsure if this is allowed or not, but, here goes.

Hi Jim,

This is a lie. If you weren't sure, you'd have asked if it was ok to
do the thing without actually doing the thing. That you went ahead and
did it says you were pretty sure it was against the rules and figured
you could get away with it. You may be right but the lie compounds the
offense.

I'm sorry to hear about Ed. Nevertheless, a lot of us are getting on
in age and health and the Internet doesn't need another mailing list
about how sad it is to grow old.

May I suggest: spend a line in your signature block on the off-topic
things you want folks on this group to know. And then attach it only
to messages which are on topic.

Regards,
Bill Herrin

Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[William Herrin]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 10:08 AM Jim Mercer  wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 09:23:11AM -0800, William Herrin wrote:
> > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 8:40 AM Jim Mercer  wrote:
> > > unsure if this is allowed or not, but, here goes.
> >
> > This is a lie.
>
> there have been any number of threads, short, or overly long about the
> deaths of contributors, so, i don't feel the least bit guilty for starting
> this one about someone not quite there.

And I generally don't complain. It's not as if every one of my posts
has been flawlessly on topic. But when I do deliberately break the
rules, I try not to prefix it by pretending otherwise. And you're not
reporting on Ed's passing, you're making a money pitch on an
ends-justify-the-means basis.

Regards,
Bill Herrin

Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[Tom Beecher]

Guys, let's maybe turn the temperature down a bit.

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 1:04 PM Mel Beckman  wrote:

> Bill,
>
> So, we can only mention in this forum the actual death of Internet
> pioneers, such as Mark Crispin, Jon Postel, and Jeanette Symons?
>
> What if the person’s health is tied to a major infrastructure component,
> such as http://www.registry.ca? No? Not a valid “operational” case?
>
> Your position seems to be "let us nip this in sad news the bud, before it
> spreads". Because, I guess, there are literally millions of selfless
> Internet pioneers, and we don’t want NANOG to be flooded with their
> memories, or at least their pleas for modest assistance as a token of
> appreciation for their lifetime of contribution.
>
> “NANOG owes them nothing!”, you didn’t say, but I heard.
>
>  -mel
>
> On Jan 25, 2021, at 9:23 AM, William Herrin  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 8:40 AM Jim Mercer  wrote:
>
> unsure if this is allowed or not, but, here goes.
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> This is a lie. If you weren't sure, you'd have asked if it was ok to
> do the thing without actually doing the thing. That you went ahead and
> did it says you were pretty sure it was against the rules and figured
> you could get away with it. You may be right but the lie compounds the
> offense.
>
> I'm sorry to hear about Ed. Nevertheless, a lot of us are getting on
> in age and health and the Internet doesn't need another mailing list
> about how sad it is to grow old.
>
> May I suggest: spend a line in your signature block on the off-topic
> things you want folks on this group to know. And then attach it only
> to messages which are on topic.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
>
>
>

Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[Jim Mercer]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 10:04:02AM -0800, Sabri Berisha wrote:
> - On Jan 25, 2021, at 8:37 AM, Jim Mercer j...@reptiles.org wrote:
> > https://www.gofundme.com/f/ed-hew-medical-expenses
> 
> Just a headsup for those outside of Canada. My transaction was processed
> in CAD instead of USD. Not that I care as amex doesn't charge foreign fees
> on my card, but if you have a choice of creditcards, pick the right one.

i could be wrong, but i think gofundme selects the currency based on who
sets up the fund, which in my case, is canada.

--jim

-- 
Jim Mercer Reptilian Research  j...@reptiles.org+1 416 410-5633

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather
to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up,
totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
 -- Hunter S. Thompson

Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[Jim Mercer]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 09:23:11AM -0800, William Herrin wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 8:40 AM Jim Mercer  wrote:
> > unsure if this is allowed or not, but, here goes.
> 
> This is a lie.

there are a myriad of lists focused on free speech issues, and domestic and
international politics of all kinds.

how relative those are to the NANOG focus is pretty much up in the air.

there have been any number of threads, short, or overly long about the
deaths of contributors, so, i don't feel the least bit guilty for starting
this one about someone not quite there.

to each his own.

--jim

-- 
Jim Mercer Reptilian Research  j...@reptiles.org+1 416 410-5633

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather
to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up,
totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
 -- Hunter S. Thompson

Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[Sabri Berisha]

- On Jan 25, 2021, at 8:37 AM, Jim Mercer j...@reptiles.org wrote:

Hi,

> https://www.gofundme.com/f/ed-hew-medical-expenses

Just a headsup for those outside of Canada. My transaction was processed
in CAD instead of USD. Not that I care as amex doesn't charge foreign fees
on my card, but if you have a choice of creditcards, pick the right one.

Thanks,

Sabri

Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[Mel Beckman]

Bill,

So, we can only mention in this forum the actual death of Internet pioneers, 
such as Mark Crispin, Jon Postel, and Jeanette Symons?

What if the person’s health is tied to a major infrastructure component, such 
as http://www.registry.ca? No? Not a valid “operational” case?

Your position seems to be "let us nip this in sad news the bud, before it 
spreads". Because, I guess, there are literally millions of selfless Internet 
pioneers, and we don’t want NANOG to be flooded with their memories, or at 
least their pleas for modest assistance as a token of appreciation for their 
lifetime of contribution.

“NANOG owes them nothing!”, you didn’t say, but I heard.

 -mel

On Jan 25, 2021, at 9:23 AM, William Herrin 
mailto:b...@herrin.us>> wrote:

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 8:40 AM Jim Mercer 
mailto:j...@reptiles.org>> wrote:
unsure if this is allowed or not, but, here goes.

Hi Jim,

This is a lie. If you weren't sure, you'd have asked if it was ok to
do the thing without actually doing the thing. That you went ahead and
did it says you were pretty sure it was against the rules and figured
you could get away with it. You may be right but the lie compounds the
offense.

I'm sorry to hear about Ed. Nevertheless, a lot of us are getting on
in age and health and the Internet doesn't need another mailing list
about how sad it is to grow old.

May I suggest: spend a line in your signature block on the off-topic
things you want folks on this group to know. And then attach it only
to messages which are on topic.

Regards,
Bill Herrin

Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[William Herrin]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 8:40 AM Jim Mercer  wrote:
> unsure if this is allowed or not, but, here goes.

Hi Jim,

This is a lie. If you weren't sure, you'd have asked if it was ok to
do the thing without actually doing the thing. That you went ahead and
did it says you were pretty sure it was against the rules and figured
you could get away with it. You may be right but the lie compounds the
offense.

I'm sorry to hear about Ed. Nevertheless, a lot of us are getting on
in age and health and the Internet doesn't need another mailing list
about how sad it is to grow old.

May I suggest: spend a line in your signature block on the off-topic
things you want folks on this group to know. And then attach it only
to messages which are on topic.

Regards,
Bill Herrin

David Tilbrook / QEF - Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[Jim Mercer]

unrelated, but, David Tilbrook, an early Unix pioneer, passed away a week or
so ago.  due to COVID.

https://leahneukirchen.org/blog/archive/2021/01/remembering-the-work-of-david-m-tilbrook-and-the-qed-editor.html



--jim


On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 04:59:27PM +, Mel Beckman wrote:
> So often we report here on nanog the passing of major Internet contributors, 
> it seems even more fitting that we support these contributors when they???re 
> in need through no fault of their own. Thanks for posting this, Jim. 
> 
> -mel
> 
> > On Jan 25, 2021, at 8:40 AM, Jim Mercer  wrote:
> > 
> > ???
> > unsure if this is allowed or not, but, here goes.
> > 
> > https://www.gofundme.com/f/ed-hew-medical-expenses
> > 
> > some of you may remember ed.
> > 
> > some, maybe not.
> > 
> > but, as the uucp maps maintainer for canada, he was quite influential in
> > the rise of email, and to some degree, the internet, in canada.
> > 
> > --jim
> > 
> > -- 
> > Jim Mercer Reptilian Research  j...@reptiles.org+1 416 410-5633
> > 
> > Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
> > arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather
> > to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up,
> > totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
> > -- Hunter S. Thompson

-- 
Jim Mercer Reptilian Research  j...@reptiles.org+1 416 410-5633

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather
to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up,
totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
 -- Hunter S. Thompson

Re: gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[Mel Beckman]

So often we report here on nanog the passing of major Internet contributors, it 
seems even more fitting that we support these contributors when they’re in need 
through no fault of their own. Thanks for posting this, Jim. 

-mel

> On Jan 25, 2021, at 8:40 AM, Jim Mercer  wrote:
> 
> 
> unsure if this is allowed or not, but, here goes.
> 
> https://www.gofundme.com/f/ed-hew-medical-expenses
> 
> some of you may remember ed.
> 
> some, maybe not.
> 
> but, as the uucp maps maintainer for canada, he was quite influential in
> the rise of email, and to some degree, the internet, in canada.
> 
> --jim
> 
> -- 
> Jim Mercer Reptilian Research  j...@reptiles.org+1 416 410-5633
> 
> Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
> arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather
> to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up,
> totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
> -- Hunter S. Thompson

Re: Past policies versus present and future uses

[Rob McEwen]

On 1/25/2021 11:34 AM, Rubens Kuhl wrote:

They are not losing IPs because of hosting questionable content.


Correct - but from reading the Brian Krebs article on this, that was the 
justification that Ron Guilmette used for going after Parler and DDoS-Guard.


--
Rob McEwen
https://www.invaluement.com
+1 (478) 475-9032

gofundme Medical Expenses - Ed Hew

[Jim Mercer]

unsure if this is allowed or not, but, here goes.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/ed-hew-medical-expenses

some of you may remember ed.

some, maybe not.

but, as the uucp maps maintainer for canada, he was quite influential in
the rise of email, and to some degree, the internet, in canada.

--jim

-- 
Jim Mercer Reptilian Research  j...@reptiles.org+1 416 410-5633

Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather
to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up,
totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!"
 -- Hunter S. Thompson

Re: Past policies versus present and future uses

[Rubens Kuhl]

On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 1:28 PM Rob McEwen  wrote:

>
> A take on the 1979 movie "When A Stranger Calls" - "have you checked the
> children?" becomes "have you checked the IP registration?"
>
> [image: Have you checked the IP registration?]
>
>
> The vast majority of the time, Ron Guilmette does "the Lord's work" - but
> THIS time - it looks to me like he put his political biases ahead of legit
> anti-abuse, and it's no surprise that we now have a trail of destruction
> left behind, along with much "innocent bystander" collateral damage.
>
> Is DDoS-Guard without blame? Probably not, but them hosting some
> occasional criminals is NOT UNLIKE EVERY OTHER GLOBAL NETWORK! So like
> other large and diversity global networks, anti abuse should focus on
> removing their worst criminals/spammers. By these SAME standards, many
> other large and famous networks should lose most or much of their IPs too!
>
> So here we are, with many OTHER networks now legitimately freaked out
> about losing their IPs, and with massive potential collateral damage that
> might hurt many "innocent bystanders" each time that is done!
>
>
They are not losing IPs because of hosting questionable content. It's very
reassuring to see RIR policies being enforced; there is a sentiment of lack
of accountability in IP allocations and that changing is positive for all
the ecosystem.


Rubens

Re: Past policies versus present and future uses

[Rob McEwen]

/(sent again since the last one had the inline graphic stripped out - so 
this one links to the graphic on a website)/


A take on the 1979 movie "When A Stranger Calls" - "have you checked the 
children?" becomes "have you checked the IP registration?"


Have you checked the IP registration?

https://www.invaluement.com/have-you-checked-the-ip-registration.jpg

The vast majority of the time, Ron Guilmette does "the Lord's work" - 
but THIS time - it looks to me like he put his political biases ahead of 
legit anti-abuse, and it's no surprise that we now have a trail of 
destruction left behind, along with much "innocent bystander" collateral 
damage.


Is DDoS-Guard without blame? Probably not, but them hosting some 
occasional criminals is NOT UNLIKE EVERY OTHER GLOBAL NETWORK! So like 
other large and diversity global networks, anti abuse should focus on 
removing their worst criminals/spammers. By these SAME standards, many 
other large and famous networks should lose most or much of their IPs too!


So here we are, with many OTHER networks now legitimately freaked out 
about losing their IPs, and with massive potential collateral damage 
that might hurt many "innocent bystanders" each time that is done!


-- Rob McEwen, invaluement

Re: Past policies versus present and future uses

[Rob McEwen]

A take on the 1979 movie "When A Stranger Calls" - "have you checked the 
children?" becomes "have you checked the IP registration?"


Have you checked the IP registration?


The vast majority of the time, Ron Guilmette does "the Lord's work" - 
but THIS time - it looks to me like he put his political biases ahead of 
legit anti-abuse, and it's no surprise that we now have a trail of 
destruction left behind, along with much "innocent bystander" collateral 
damage.


Is DDoS-Guard without blame? Probably not, but them hosting some 
occasional criminals is NOT UNLIKE EVERY OTHER GLOBAL NETWORK! So like 
other large and diversity global networks, anti abuse should focus on 
removing their worst criminals/spammers. By these SAME standards, many 
other large and famous networks should lose most or much of their IPs too!


So here we are, with many OTHER networks now legitimately freaked out 
about losing their IPs, and with massive potential collateral damage 
that might hurt many "innocent bystanders" each time that is done!


-- Rob McEwen, invaluement

Collaborating Across Continents: A Conversation with Barrie Jones Cook + Toni Yannick Kalombo

[NANOG News]

*“Meeting at the NANOG 80 Hackathon gave us the opportunity to get to know
each other over a shared objective.”*

We recently spoke with Barrie Jones Cook of San Diego, and Toni Yannick
Kalombo of Johannesburg, who not only met via the NANOG 80 Virtual
Hackathon, but also formed a team there, and continued to collaborate on
their project once the hackathon wrapped.

With diverse backgrounds in network and software engineering, and varying
levels of hackathon experience, the two were able to combine their
particular skills and experience to create a virtual-lab network, with the
hopes of establishing a working group so the collaboration can continue
well into the future.

Read the Feature

[NANOG-announce] Collaborating Across Continents: A Conversation with Barrie Jones Cook + Toni Yannick Kalombo

[NANOG News]

*“Meeting at the NANOG 80 Hackathon gave us the opportunity to get to know
each other over a shared objective.”*

We recently spoke with Barrie Jones Cook of San Diego, and Toni Yannick
Kalombo of Johannesburg, who not only met via the NANOG 80 Virtual
Hackathon, but also formed a team there, and continued to collaborate on
their project once the hackathon wrapped.

With diverse backgrounds in network and software engineering, and varying
levels of hackathon experience, the two were able to combine their
particular skills and experience to create a virtual-lab network, with the
hopes of establishing a working group so the collaboration can continue
well into the future.

Read the Feature

___
NANOG-announce mailing list
NANOG-announce@nanog.org
https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog-announce

Re: Frontier Tampa issues

[Nick Olsen]

Nail on the head, David.

I've got ~3 dozen IPSEC connections that land back at our DC. Only a few
were affected. Some physically near each other...etc No rhyme or reason to
the selection. So LAG hashing makes perfect sense. Due to the moderator
queue, my message was delayed. It started around Noon Saturday. As of this
morning (monday), It's resolved. I did spend about an hour trying to get a
ticket in. And did, but never heard back. Took me about a half-hour to
convince the rep I didn't want someone dispatched.

Yes, In this case the AS path was 5650>6939>Me. However, The return is
Me>174>3356>5650. 5650 and 6939 peer across the FL-IX in MIA. But 6939
isn't accepting any routes from 5650 on that session. After talking to HE
about it, They claim it's intentionally filtered due to capacity issues on
the port, Waiting for 5650 to augment. Sounds like the classic peering
staring contest to me. It was nice for a while. And kept us out of trouble
during the last "nationwide" level 3 outage. As all other paths crossed
3356.

Given the outbound route from the Frontier circuit didn't touch level 3 (in
my case). And that's where my loss was occurring (What left the CPE, never
made it to my 6939 port). It doesn't look like this was specific to a LAG
between 5650 and 3356 though.

On Sun, Jan 24, 2021 at 9:19 PM David Hubbard 
wrote:

> Yes, exactly same issue for us, and it has happened in the past a few
> years ago fortunately.  Any chance the route takes a Level 3 (3356) path?
> I’m just theorizing here, but my belief is they have some kind of link
> aggregation in the path from TB to 3356 (or maybe just internal near some
> edge) and some traffic is getting hashed onto a problematic
> link/interface/linecard, etc. where IPSec gets dropped.  One of our
> locations lost IPSec ability to some normal VPN endpoints but not others.
> And here’s why I think this is the issue….  if you change the source and/or
> destination IP address by one, you may find some or all of your sessions
> magically work again.
>
>
>
> In our case, one of our office locations has a static assignment of
> (fortunately) five IP’s.  We only have one external exposed, four site to
> site VPN’s.  Two began failing Saturday morning.  I moved the office
> firewall’s external IP minus 1 and that fixed both, but broke one that had
> been fine.  On the remote end fortunately I have equipment that’s able to
> override the local IP for VPN traffic, so without impacting other things it
> talks to, I was able to add a new IP one off from the previous, and use
> that for traffic just to this office location; that fixed the remaining
> issue.
>
>
>
> If I’d not seen this previously several years ago, and wasted who knows
> how many hours trying to figure it out, it would have once again taken
> forever to resolve.  Trying to get through their support layer to someone
> who can really help is impossible.  The support is really complete garbage
> at this point after the Verizon dump; I was going to say service, but
> that’s been stable outside of these random weird issues that are impossible
> to resolve with support.
>
>
>
> I tried to be a nice guy and raise this through the support channels, but
> could not make it past the layer where they want me to take our office down
> to have someone plug a laptop in with our normal WAN IP and “prove” ipsec
> isn’t working with different equipment.  I was like dude I just told you
> what I did to get it working again, offered packet captures, just escalate
> it, but ultimately gave up and hung up.
>
>
>
> David
>
>
>
> *From: *NANOG  on
> behalf of Nick Olsen 
> *Date: *Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 8:42 PM
> *To: *"nanog@nanog.org" 
> *Subject: *Frontier Tampa issues
>
>
>
> Anyone else seeing weird things on Tampa/Bradenton FIOS connections?
>
>
>
> I've got three unrelated customers that cant establishes IPsec back to me.
>
>
>
> And a third that can't process credit cards out to their third party
> merchant.
>
>
>
> Customers are in 47.196.0.0/14.
>
>
>
> In All instances, I see the traffic leave the CPE behind the FIOS circuit.
> The IPSEC traffic never makes it to my DC. And no clue on the credit card
> traffic. But it goes un-ack'd
>
>
>
> And just now a fifth has appeared that can't query DNS against 8.8.8.8.
> Responses go out and never come back.
>
>
>
> The first four all started around noon today.
>

Re: Re: Frontier Tampa issues

[Daniel Jurado]

 
 It sounds like a routing loop somewhere In the path. Trace the path thru a looking glass.-- Sent from my Android phone with mail.com Mail. Please excuse my brevity.On 1/24/21, 9:19 PM David Hubbard  wrote:
 
   
   Yes, exactly same issue for us, and it has happened in the past a few years ago fortunately.  Any chance the route takes a Level 3 (3356) path?  I’m just theorizing here, but my belief is they have some kind of link aggregation in the path from TB to 3356 (or maybe just internal near some edge) and some traffic is getting hashed onto a problematic link/interface/linecard, etc. where IPSec gets dropped.  One of our locations lost IPSec ability to some normal VPN endpoints but not others.  And here’s why I think this is the issue….  if you change the source and/or destination IP address by one, you may find some or all of your sessions magically work again. 
     
   In our case, one of our office locations has a static assignment of (fortunately) five IP’s.  We only have one external exposed, four site to site VPN’s.  Two began failing Saturday morning.  I moved the office firewall’s external IP minus 1 and that fixed both, but broke one that had been fine.  On the remote end fortunately I have equipment that’s able to override the local IP for VPN traffic, so without impacting other things it talks to, I was able to add a new IP one off from the previous, and use that for traffic just to this office location; that fixed the remaining issue. 
     
   If I’d not seen this previously several years ago, and wasted who knows how many hours trying to figure it out, it would have once again taken forever to resolve.  Trying to get through their support layer to someone who can really help is impossible.  The support is really complete garbage at this point after the Verizon dump; I was going to say service, but that’s been stable outside of these random weird issues that are impossible to resolve with support. 
     
   I tried to be a nice guy and raise this through the support channels, but could not make it past the layer where they want me to take our office down to have someone plug a laptop in with our normal WAN IP and “prove” ipsec isn’t working with different equipment.  I was like dude I just told you what I did to get it working again, offered packet captures, just escalate it, but ultimately gave up and hung up. 
     
   David 
     

From: NANOG  on behalf of Nick Olsen  Date: Sunday, January 24, 2021 at 8:42 PM To: "nanog@nanog.org"  Subject: Frontier Tampa issues 


  


Anyone else seeing weird things on Tampa/Bradenton FIOS connections? 
 
   
 
 
 I've got three unrelated customers that cant establishes IPsec back to me. 
 
 
   
 
 
 And a third that can't process credit cards out to their third party merchant. 
 
 
   
 
 
 Customers are in 47.196.0.0/14. 
 
 
   
 
 
 In All instances, I see the traffic leave the CPE behind the FIOS circuit. The IPSEC traffic never makes it to my DC. And no clue on the credit card traffic. But it goes un-ack'd 
 
 
   
 
 
 And just now a fifth has appeared that can't query DNS against 8.8.8.8. Responses go out and never come back. 
 
 
   
 
 
 The first four all started around noon today. 
 

   
 
<>