Can it really be this quiet?

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

Or has NANOG also succumbed to a signed-integer date problem?

Waiting to see what I get back..

..Allen

Re: S.Korea broadband firm sues Netflix after traffic surge

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

..Allen

> On Oct 20, 2021, at 15:43, Matthew Walster  wrote, among 
> other things:
> 
> Seems pretty disingenuous to now say the called party has to pay as well, in 
> stark contrast to decades of precedent with their telephone product, just 
> because their customers are actually using what they were sold.

Let me add a (perhaps naïve) perspective:

When speaking of calling party costs, there are two costs in that model: the 
cost of access to the network (recurring telephone line charges) and the cost, 
if metered, of making an actual call.

My analogy looks something like this: as the manager of a telecom system where 
hundreds of clinical dictators were calling at all hours, while I did not pay 
for any individual incoming calls, it was a necessary business expense for me 
to have sufficient connection to the network – that is to say, a sufficient 
number of telephone lines. The cost for dozens of T1 lines was not a small 
budget item.

So, in one sense, I as a called party did indeed find it necessary to pay 
substantial fees for the privilege of being called.

And when I instituted toll-free calling, of course I paid significantly more.

I totally agree that this is not a perfect analogy. But I have some sympathy 
for both parties in this debate.

Blessings..

..Allen

Re: OT: Re: Younger generations preferring social media(esque) interactions.

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

But obviously my experience and age has failed to break me of top-posting .. 
sorry!

..Allen

> On Mar 25, 2021, at 12:51, Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail) 
>  wrote:
> 
> And to push this point further:
> 
> I don’t claim to speak for all graybeards, but now that I am past the era of 
> enjoying my kids' school activities, and resting on an empty nest, I once 
> again don’t mind being involved in what younger engineers are doing far 
> beyond “work hours”. There are a few reasons for that: it turns out that this 
> is when “the kids” tend to be doing the most interesting and boundary-pushing 
> work, and the observations that an old-head can offer are sometimes welcome; 
> also, that lets me have a vital window on what they're doing and how it may 
> affect the world as we know it; and finally, rather than being jealous of my 
> time, my beloved speaks of being proud of how I am called on by younger peers 
> and can remember things that the kids haven’t had time to learn. 
> 
> Now that last one has no real network application .. but it makes me feel 
> good. 
> 
> So .. ages and stages, +1.
> 
> ..Allen
> 
>> On Mar 25, 2021, at 00:26, Mark Tinka  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>>> On 3/24/21 17:59, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think age has something to do with that too, and I don't mean this as 
>>> offensive at all because I've been there done that, but lack of other 
>>> things going on in life. When I was 19 I had no problem being available on 
>>> my cell phone at all times. I'd do weekends and nights with joy. I'd 
>>> volunteer to take all the extra projects the older people didn't want. I'd 
>>> make up projects just because. I'd respond to messages/emails/whatever 
>>> immediately if I was awake no matter what time it was. Hell, I used to 
>>> respond to NOC stuff while I was sitting in class rather than wait until 
>>> the end.
>>> 
>>> Now that I'm older and have things like a house and family, I slowly 
>>> shifted to not wanting to be available constantly. I'd rather work on some 
>>> house project, bake a cake, watch TV with the wife, or play games I missed 
>>> out on when I was "busy" with stuff that hardly seems important now. I 
>>> don't want my life to be a slave to apps or jump at every notification I 
>>> get. I have a laptop just in case I need one, but my primary work area is 
>>> my desk with desktop computer. When I step away from my desk I'm really 
>>> stepping away, not transitioning to the sofa or dinner table to keep 
>>> working on a laptop (something I did in my 20's). Now if someone messages 
>>> me and I don't think it's time critical I'll get back to it when I feel 
>>> like it. If it's emergency pick up the phone and dial a voice call: if it's 
>>> not worth that much effort, it's not that important. I don't want to end up 
>>> divorced or have a contentious home life because I can't separate work from 
>>> the wife and kids.
>>> 
>>> So the way I see it there will *always* be a general disconnect in how the 
>>> younger and older groups prefer to interact because they're simply at 
>>> completely different stages in their lives.
>> 
>> 100%.
>> 
>> Mark.
>> 

Re: OT: Re: Younger generations preferring social media(esque) interactions.

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

And to push this point further:

I don’t claim to speak for all graybeards, but now that I am past the era of 
enjoying my kids' school activities, and resting on an empty nest, I once again 
don’t mind being involved in what younger engineers are doing far beyond “work 
hours”. There are a few reasons for that: it turns out that this is when “the 
kids” tend to be doing the most interesting and boundary-pushing work, and the 
observations that an old-head can offer are sometimes welcome; also, that lets 
me have a vital window on what they're doing and how it may affect the world as 
we know it; and finally, rather than being jealous of my time, my beloved 
speaks of being proud of how I am called on by younger peers and can remember 
things that the kids haven’t had time to learn. 

Now that last one has no real network application .. but it makes me feel good. 

So .. ages and stages, +1.

..Allen

> On Mar 25, 2021, at 00:26, Mark Tinka  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 3/24/21 17:59, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I think age has something to do with that too, and I don't mean this as 
>> offensive at all because I've been there done that, but lack of other things 
>> going on in life. When I was 19 I had no problem being available on my cell 
>> phone at all times. I'd do weekends and nights with joy. I'd volunteer to 
>> take all the extra projects the older people didn't want. I'd make up 
>> projects just because. I'd respond to messages/emails/whatever immediately 
>> if I was awake no matter what time it was. Hell, I used to respond to NOC 
>> stuff while I was sitting in class rather than wait until the end.
>> 
>> Now that I'm older and have things like a house and family, I slowly shifted 
>> to not wanting to be available constantly. I'd rather work on some house 
>> project, bake a cake, watch TV with the wife, or play games I missed out on 
>> when I was "busy" with stuff that hardly seems important now. I don't want 
>> my life to be a slave to apps or jump at every notification I get. I have a 
>> laptop just in case I need one, but my primary work area is my desk with 
>> desktop computer. When I step away from my desk I'm really stepping away, 
>> not transitioning to the sofa or dinner table to keep working on a laptop 
>> (something I did in my 20's). Now if someone messages me and I don't think 
>> it's time critical I'll get back to it when I feel like it. If it's 
>> emergency pick up the phone and dial a voice call: if it's not worth that 
>> much effort, it's not that important. I don't want to end up divorced or 
>> have a contentious home life because I can't separate work from the wife and 
>> kids.
>> 
>> So the way I see it there will *always* be a general disconnect in how the 
>> younger and older groups prefer to interact because they're simply at 
>> completely different stages in their lives.
> 
> 100%.
> 
> Mark.
> 

Re: 10g residential CPE

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

A company doing what you describe is one I’d really love to work for.

May that philosophy of business be richly blessed.

..Allen

> On Dec 28, 2020, at 12:03, Aaron Wendel  wrote:
> 
> Darin,
> 
> We charge a $300 one time install charge to cover our costs on the 1G service 
> (which can be paid out at $25/mo if you can't afford $300 all at once).
> 
> The area we serve is mainly lower and lower-middle-class income with an 80% 
> transient population.  Seven years ago, when "digital divide" and "digital 
> literacy" were the buzz words, we instituted our "free" 1G service in an 
> effort to level the playing field for the population who, otherwise, can't 
> afford internet at all, let alone at that speed.  Until recently we didn't 
> charge for residential service at any tier.  Rather than putting in "income 
> tiers", making people fill out applications for assistance, etc. we just made 
> it free for everyone.  We also provide free 100G service to the local school 
> district as well as free service to local government, police, fire stations 
> (Firemen (and women) had to pay for their own internet to use while they were 
> on duty before us), library, churches and other non-profits.
> 
> That's the why.  The how is that we control a LOT of fiber in the metro area 
> that is in use by a lot of very large providers that everyone's heard of.  We 
> make enough money doing that so we don't feel the need to charge the 
> residences for a basic level of service.
> 
> Aaron
> 
> 
>> On 12/26/2020 12:48 PM, Darin Steffl wrote:
>> Aaron,
>> 
>> One simple question. Why on earth would you offer free internet service? How 
>> and why? Your site show 1 Gig symmetrical for free when you should be a 
>> minimum of $65 per month to be competitive.
>> 
>> On Sat, Dec 26, 2020, 12:31 PM Aaron Wendel > > wrote:
>> 
>>We run MikroTik RB4011s for residential speeds between 1G and 10G
>>or just supply a media converter.  For residential 40G and 100G we
>>just drop in Arista or Extreme switches.  SMBs are normally just a
>>media converter or direct fiber handoff.
>> 
>>https://mikrotik.com/product/rb4011igs_5hacq2hnd_in
>>
>> 
>>There are not a lot of options for good, off the shelf 10G CPE
>>equipment.  The handful of 10G residential customers we have seem
>>to be happy with the tik.  The couple that don’t use it have
>>rolled their own solution.
>> 
>>Like anything, I’m sure once the major home broadband providers
>>start to catch up with us smaller guys the vendors will catch up
>>as well.
>> 
>>https://www.kcfiber.com/residential
>>
>> 
>>Aaron
>> 
>> 
>>>On Dec 26, 2020, at 11:53 AM, Mel Beckman >>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>
i really don't get what the problem is. it's like they're being
deliberately obtuse.
>>> 
>>>Michael,
>>> 
>>>If vendors saw a 10GbE CPE market, they would serve it. Obviously
>>>they don’t see a market. Why don’t people insisting vendors build
>>>their hobby horse see that? It’s like they’re being deliberately
>>>obtuse :)
>>> 
>>>-mel via cell
>>> 
On Dec 26, 2020, at 9:16 AM, Michael Thomas >>>> wrote:
 

>On 12/26/20 8:00 AM, Valdis Klētnieks wrote:
> 
>Anybody got a feel for what percent of the third-party gear
>currently sold to
>consumers has sane bufferbloat support in 2020, when we've
>*known* that
>de-bufferbloated gear is a viable differentiatior if marketed
>right (consider the
>percent of families that have at least one gamer who cares)?
> 
I don't know percentages, but just trying to find cpe that
support it in their specs is depressingly small. considering
that they're all using linux and queuing discipline software is
ages old, i really don't get what the problem is. it's like
they're being deliberately obtuse. given all of the zoom'ing
happening now you think that somebody would hit them with the
clue-bat that this is a marketing opportunity.
 
Mike
 
> 
> -- 
> 
> Aaron Wendel
> Chief Technical Officer
> Wholesale Internet, Inc. (AS 32097)
> (816)550-9030
> http://www.wholesaleinternet.com
> 
> 

Re: The Real AI Threat?

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

Unobserved, a small capacitor on an insignificant board near the top of a 
highly secure electronics cabinet in the Group Six radio communications system 
emits a puff of smoke...

(This is a paraphrase from memory, as I couldn’t locate Burdick's book 
quickly..)

..Allen

> On Dec 11, 2020, at 15:45, b...@theworld.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Slow Friday...
> 
> One pressing problem of "AI", and might be a useful analogy, is that
> we're (everyone w/ the money) deploying it, for some value of "it",
> into weapons systems.
> 
> The problem is that decisions made by for example an attack drone
> might have to be made in milliseconds incorporating many real-time
> facts, much faster than a human can. Particularly if one considers
> such weapons "dog fighting" where both sides have them.
> 
> Some decisions we're probably comfortable enough with, can I get a
> clear shot at a moving target etc. A human presumably already
> identified the target so that's just execution.
> 
> But some amount to policy.
> 
> Such as an armed response where there was no armed conflict a few
> milliseconds ago because the software decided a slight variation in
> the flight pattern of that hypersonic cruise missile -- Russia claims
> to be deploying these, some with nuclear power so can stay aloft
> essentially forever -- is threatening and not just another go-around.
> 
> Etc.
> 
> The point being it's not only the decision/policy matrix, it's also
> that when we put that into real-time systems the element of time
> becomes a factor.
> 
> One can, for example, imagine similar issues regarding identifying and
> responding to cyberattacks in real-time. An attempt to bring down the
> country's cyberdefenses? Or just another cat photo? You have 10ms to
> decide whether to cut off all traffic from the source (or whatever,
> counter-attack) before your lights (might) go out and what are the
> implications?
> 
> I'm sure there are better examples but I hope you get the general
> idea.
> 
> -- 
>-Barry Shein
> 
> Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | 
> http://www.TheWorld.com
> Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
> The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

Re: alternative to voip gateways - 66 blocks to Amphenol

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

On May 3, 2020, at 11:09, Mel Beckman  wrote:
> 
>   ...

> The most time consuming part is wiring the existing POTS lines into amphenol 
> connectors to plug into the DSLAM, 25 pairs at a time. 
...
> 
> 
>  -mel beckman

You may already be familiar with this, but leaving it here in case it helps..

https://www.graybar.com/store/en/gb/s66-pre-wired-m2-series-88233982


..Allen

Re: akamai yesterday - what in the world was that (now old guy stuff)

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

On Jan 25, 2020, at 08:52, Paul Nash  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> So, I grew up in South Africa, and one of the more fascinating /
>> cooler things I saw was a modem which would get you ~50bps (bps, not
>> Kbps) over a single strand of barbed wire -- you'd hammer a largish
>> nail into the ground, and clip one alligator[0] clip onto that, and
>> another alligator clip onto the barbed wire. Repeat the process on the
>> other side (up to ~5km away), plug the modems in, and bits would
>> flow... I only saw these used a few times, but always thought they
>> were cool….
> 
> Do you remember anything about the actual type of modem?  Or where you 
> deployed them?
> 
Decades ago, I cobbled together a 20mA current loop interface that may have 
been an early version of this .. ran a set of Baudot machines (pre-ASCII, upper 
case & figs only) mostly just to have fun with a set of old ASR 32 teletypes.  
I used a couple of 500’ spools of zip cord lying on the ground from end to end. 
Never mind backhoes - it was lawn-mower vulnerable. (However, being flat on the 
ground seemingly made it less vulnerable to lightning strikes.)

Of course, this was hardly critical infrastructure!

Blessings..

Allen

Re: Barely operational .. hoping to find myspace help

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

Thanks! Replying to the list as well .. several kind folks replied off-list.

As you can imagine, getting a lawyer's letterhead could involve some expense 
that our shoestring volunteer organization wishes to avoid .. which is why I 
sought a tech contact in order to pave the way if possible (sometimes it's 
still WHO you know more than WHAT you know). 

Good news is that the parole officer has now assured my client that no matter 
what PSP told him, the PO won’t technical him for circumstances beyond his 
control. So the pucker factor is markedly diminished. 

This is a public thanks to all who have sent off-line offers of help and 
support! The effort continues but now with more manageable urgency.

And thanks to the list for being gracious re this non-operational followup.

Blessings..

..Allen

> On Sep 23, 2019, at 22:59, William Herrin  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 23, 2019 at 3:21 PM Allen Kitchen 
>>  wrote:
>> In a side volunteer "job", I work with men released from prison, often with 
>> sexual offense histories. Generally they are still on parole / supervision.
>> 
>> Currently I have one "client" who is barely literate technically but who had 
>> a myspace account before he went to prison about 6 years ago. 
>> 
>> He's been told by state police here in PA that he must delete his old 
>> myspace account or risk re-incarceration, whether or not he has used the 
>> account. But he's also prohibited from using any social media accounts in 
>> any manner whatsoever - and has no idea what his old email was when he set 
>> this account up as a teenager. So he has asked for my help in shutting down 
>> his old unused profile.
>> 
>> The myspace website is rather unhelpful in trying to find a way to do this 
>> without having him log in - which is both practically impossible and legally 
>> prohibited. 
>> 
> 
> https://help.myspace.com/hc/en-us
> 
> search for "legal"
> 
> The first link is "law enforcement." Down at the end it has an address. 
> 
> Prepare a letter on a lawyer's letterhead. Include a copy of the instruction 
> you have on government letterhead ordering your client to delete his account. 
> Send it certified mail.
> 
> If the account remains online after you get the receipt for the letter's 
> delivery, return to the judge and ask for a letter ordering myspace to delete 
> the account. Then send a copy of that to the address. 
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> William Herrin
> b...@herrin.us
> https://bill.herrin.us/

Any current comments on PacketViper?

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

Users? Detractors? Off-list responses preferred. Will summarize if there’s an 
indication of interest.

..Allen
allen.mckinley.kitc...@gmail.com
Butler, PA

Re: Cleveland/Cincinnati Co-location

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

+1 for Expedient. Not a current customer but a VERY satisfied former customer. 
(Decision to leave them was a foul case of penny-pincher mismanagement, above 
my pay grade and over my objections.)

..Allen

> On Jan 3, 2019, at 01:00, Justin M. Streiner  wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, 1 Jan 2019, Mitchell Lewis wrote:
>> 
>> I am working on project that may involve building points of presence in 
>> Cleveland & Cincinnati. Any suggestions as to which colocation facility in 
>> each city to build in? The prime factor of consideration for this project is 
>> access to waves to places like Chicago, New York & Ashburn. It would be nice 
>> to have multiple wave provider options to choose from.
>> 
>> I have been looking at Cyrus One-7thStreet in Cincinnati & Databank in 
>> Cleveland.
> 
> Expedient has two facilities in Cleveland that might be worth looking at.
> 
> Thank you
> jms

Re: Got a call at 4am - RAID Gurus Please Read

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

+1 on the most important statement below, from my point of view: RAID 5 and 
RAID 10 are totally separate animals and while you can set up a separate RAID 
10 array and migrate your data to it (as soon as possible!!!) you cannot 
migrate from 5 to 10 in place absent some utter magic that I am unaware of.

10 requires more raw drive space but offers significant write performance 
advantages when correctly configured (which isn't really too difficult). 5 is 
fine for protection against losing one drive, but 5 requires much more internal 
processing of writeable data before it begins the writes and, not too long ago, 
was considered completely inappropriate for applications with high numbers of 
writes, such as a transactional database.

Still, 5 is often used for database systems in casual installations just 
because it's easy, cheap (relatively) and modern fast boxes are fast enough. 

Ok, getting down off my RAID soapbox - good luck.

..Allen

 On Dec 9, 2014, at 17:22, Michael Brown mich...@supermathie.net wrote:
 
 If the serveraid7k cards are LSI and not Adaptec based (I think they are) you 
 should just be able to plug in a new adapter and import the foreign 
 configuration.
 
 You do have a good backup, yes?
 
 Switching to write-through has already happened (unless you specified 
 WriteBackModeEvenWithNoBBU - not the default) - these (LSI) cards ‎by default 
 only WB when safe.
 
 If WT, RAID10 much better perf. BUT you just can't migrate from R5 to R10 
 non-destructively.
 
 - Michael from Kitchener
   Original Message  
 From: symack
 Sent: Tuesday, December 9, 2014 16:04
 To: nanog@nanog.org
 Subject: Got a call at 4am - RAID Gurus Please Read
 
 Server down. Got to colo at 4:39 and an old IBM X346 node with
 Serveraid-7k has failed. Opened it up to find a swollen cache battery that
 has bent the card in three different axis. Separated the battery. (i)
 Inspect card and plug back in, (ii) reboot, and got (code 2807) Not
 functioning
 Return to (i) x3 got same result. Dusted her off and let it sit for a while
 plugged in, rebooted to see if I can get her to write-through mode, disks
 start spinning. Horay.
 
 Plan of action, (and the reason for my post):
 
 * Can I change from an active (ie, disks with data) raid 5 to raid 10.
 There are 4 drives
 in the unit, and I have two on the shelf that I can plug in.
 * If so, will I have less of performance impact with RAID 10 + write-thru
 then RAID 5 + write through
 * When the new raid card comes in, can I just plug it in without loosing my
 data? I would:
 
 i) RAID 10
 ii) Write-thru
 iii) Replace card
 
 The new card is probably coming with a bad battery that would put us kind
 of in square one. New batteries are 200+ if I can find them. Best case
 scenario is move it over to RAID 10+Write-thru, and feel less of the
 performance pinch.
 
 Given I can move from RAID 5 to RAID 10 without loosing data. How long to
 anticipate downtime for this process? Is there heavy sector re-arranging
 happening here? And the same for write-thru, is it done quick?
 
 I'm going to go lay down just for a little white.
 
 Thanks in Advance,
 
 Nick from Toronto.

Re: The FCC is planning new net neutrality rules. And they could enshrine pay-for-play. - The Washington Post

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

I beg your indulgence..


On Apr 25, 2014, at 0:29, Larry Sheldon larryshel...@cox.net wrote:

 ...On 4/24/2014 11:01 PM, Everton Marques wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 12:44 AM, Patrick W. Gilmore 
 patr...@ianai.netwrote:
 
 On Apr 24, 2014, at 23:38 , Larry Sheldon larryshel...@cox.net wrote:
 
 Regulating monopolies protects monopolies from competition.
 
 Monopolies can not persist without regulation.
 
 You are confused.
 
 
 I think Mr. Sheldon is pointing out this:
 
 Thank you.
 ...
 [more comment below]
 --xx--
 ...
 I don't know what got me to thinking about it earlier today but I recalled 
 when I started at the telephone company in Los Angeles there was a pitch made 
 early on that in earlier days a business in Los Angeles had to have several 
 telephones on desks to be able to talk to all of their customers.
 
 Which was true ONLY because regulation required that each telephone line 
 terminate in an instrument owned by the providing company.
 


The above statement contains an error that obscures the issue. As someone who 
also recalls this  state of affairs, I must point out that it was the 
respective telcos' regulation - not government regulation in any sense - that 
prohibited any equipment but their own from being attached to their lines. In 
other words, those telcos were behaving anti-competitively with all the power 
they could muster to do so (surprise!) and also doing whatever they could to 
obscure that fact. 

Regulation was demanded by consumers - in order to protect them from the 
ridiculous results of this assertion of privilege on the telcos' part. To Mr 
Sheldon, this resulted in regulation (by government) creating a monopoly. I 
believe Mr Gilmore might argue that well-crafted regulation requiring 
interconnectivity as a public good would have prevented both the need for 
monopoly-creating regulation and also would have protected the public from the 
inherent tendency toward monopoly as vendors do battle to protect their turf 
rather than provide the best possible outcome for their customers.

 Absent that one regulation, businesses would have invented multi-line 
 instruments a lot earlier than was the case.

So THIS argument is completely off the mark. In fact, one could say a 
regulation was needed which would have forbade the telcos' anti-competitive 
behavior, and then the competitive marketplace could have played out further. 
Instead, what we got - partly to address some of the other concerns like 
interconnection - was a set of regulations that favored one (well-connected) 
vendor, leading to a monopoly.

So in some respects, each Mr Sheldon and Mr Gilmore are both right. No surprise 
there, either, as I have immense respect for both. I tend to lean towards Mr 
Gilmore's position, though, in that I personally hold that powerful vendors 
have a natural positive feedback tendency towards monopoly if they can attain 
it, and regulation that is wisely and truly customer-centered can prevent much 
damage; I side with Mr Sheldon only insofar as I observe that one tactic of a 
determined monopolist is to engage compliant regulators to more firmly ensconce 
them, and I believe that's a Bad Thing.

Blessings..

..Allen Kitchen, Old Guy

Re: Internet Surveillance and Boomerang Routing: A Call for Canadian Network Sovereignty

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

I'm confident that someone else may point this out, but I feel this is 
important enough to weigh in on .. Respectfully, I must disagree with any 
philosophy that perpetuates the archaic concept of political boundaries in the 
context of information flow. 

Calling it stupid to send traffic on any particular route because that route 
crosses political boundaries reflects a surrender to an old way of thought. 
While I can agree that the fact of crossing political boundaries introduces a 
very unwelcome artifact of exposing that traffic to adverse political effects, 
that doesn't mean that the desirable response is one of returning to 
nationalistic silos. Instead, the way forward is to protect the traffic rather 
than the boundaries. 

Due to political realities, that may indeed mean that a intra-national backup 
path is necessary. But to my mind, what's just not good Internet is the 
artificial restriction of traffic to solely intra-national primary paths. That 
mindset reflects a territoriality that's not our friend; I still dream of a 
fully interconnected world. 

So, I respectfully suggest that we work on fixing the problems and 
vulnerabilities that arise from the interconnectedness rather than hunkering 
down and fragmenting / forking. Yes, these are shameful and terrible problems 
that have come to our attention right now; still, we can move forward better 
together than apart, don't you think?

..Allen

On Sep 9, 2013, at 10:43, Jason Lixfeld ja...@lixfeld.ca wrote:

 That notwithstanding, it's stupid to send traffic to/from one of the large 
 $your_region/country incumbents via $not_your_region/country.  It's just not 
 good Internet.  You make enough money already.  Be a good netizen.  It pays 
 more in the long run and that's all you're really after for your shareholders 
 anyway, right?
 
 On 2013-09-08, at 11:54 AM, Derek Andrew derek.and...@usask.ca wrote:
 
 The topic of Canadian network sovereignty has been part of the Canadian
 conscience since the failure of CANNET back in the 1970s.
 
 Canadians citizens, on Canadian soil, already supply feeds directly to the
 NSA. Rerouting Internet traffic would make no difference.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 On Sat, Sep 7, 2013 at 3:08 PM, Paul Ferguson 
 fergdawgs...@mykolab.comwrote:
 
 
 A Canadian ISP colleague of mine suggested that the NANOG constituency
 might be interested in this, given some recent 'revelations', so I
 forward it here for you perusal.
 
 
 
 Preliminary analysis of more than 25,000 traceroutes reveals a
 phenomenon we call ‘boomerang routing’ whereby Canadian-to-Canadian
 internet transmissions are routinely routed through the United States.
 Canadian originated transmissions that travel to a Canadian destination
 via a U.S. switching centre or carrier are subject to U.S. law -
 including the USA Patriot Act and FISAA. As a result, these
 transmissions expose Canadians to potential U.S. surveillance activities
 – a violation of Canadian network sovereignty.
 
 
 http://lawprofessors.typepad.com/media_law_prof_blog/2013/09/routing-internet-transmission-across-the-canada-us-border-and-us-surveillance-activities.html
 
 Cheers,
 
 - ferg
 
 
 --
 Paul Ferguson
 Vice President, Threat Intelligence
 Internet Identity, Tacoma, Washington  USA
 IID -- Connect and Collaborate -- www.internetidentity.com
 
 
 -- 
 Copyright 2013 Derek Andrew (excluding quotations)
 
 +1 306 966 4808
 Information and Communications Technology
 University of Saskatchewan
 Peterson 120; 54 Innovation Boulevard
 Saskatoon,Saskatchewan,Canada. S7N 2V3
 Timezone GMT-6
 
 Typed but not read.
 
 

Re: Update from the NANOG Communications Committee regarding recent off-topic posts

[Allen McKinley Kitchen (gmail)]

On Jul 30, 2012, at 15:04, joel jaeggli joe...@bogus.com wrote:

 On 7/30/12 10:57 AM, Steven Noble wrote:
 The fix for this issue is trivial. Every new signup ...

 Most of the subscribers to the mailing list never post.
 
 

+1 (from an inveterate but VERY appreciative lurker)

..Allen

Re: VPN over satellite

[Gmail]

Why not use a standard Cisco router or Asa for the routing and VPN and put a 
riverbed steelhead on both ends to do Tcp optimization and compression.

On Apr 30, 2012, at 5:42 AM, Rens r...@autempspourmoi.be wrote:

 Dear,
 
 
 
 Could anybody recommend any hardware that can build a VPN that works well
 over satellite connections? (TCP enhancements)
 
 I want to setup a L3 VPN between 2 satellite connections
 
 
 
 Even additionally if that hardware would also support WAN bonding even
 better because I also have a scenario to connect 2 times 2 satellites to
 have more capacity for my L3 VPN
 
 
 
 Regards,
 
 
 
 Rens