.gov DNSSEC operational message

2013-09-19 Thread Wessels, Duane
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Please note that as of today, the .gov zone's transition from
algorithm 7 to 8 is now complete.

Duane W.
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.gov DNSSEC operational message

2013-08-14 Thread Wessels, Duane
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On the morning of August 14, a relatively small number of networks
may have experienced an operational disruption related to the signing
of the .gov zone.  In preparation for a previously announced algorithm
rollover, a software defect resulted in publishing the .gov zone
signed only with DNSSEC algorithm 8 keys rather than with both
algorithm 7 and 8.  As a result .gov name resolution may have failed
for validating recursive name servers.  Upon discovery of the issue,
Verisign took prompt action to restore the valid zone.

Verisign plans to proceed with the previously announced .gov algorithm
rollover at the end of the month with the zone being signed with
both algorithms for a period of approximately 10 days.
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.gov DNSSEC operational message

2013-07-30 Thread Wessels, Duane
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An algorithm roll for the .gov zone will occur at the end of August, 2013.  
This notice is provided
as a courtesy to the DNSSEC community.  No action should be required on your 
part.

The .gov zone is currently signed with algorithm 7 (RSASHA1-NSEC3-SHA1) and 
will be changed to use
algorithm 8 (RSA/SHA-256), bringing it in line with other top-level domains 
such as as .com, .net, and
the root zone.  The zone will be signed with both algorithms for a period of 
approximately 10 days.

Further scheduling details will be provided one week before the algorithm roll 
begins.

Duane W.
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Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-30 Thread Tony Finch
On 29 Dec 2010, at 16:56, bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
 
presuposes the attack was server directed.  the DNS-sniper will take
out your locally configured root KSK /or replace it w/ their own.

If they can do that then you have MUCH bigger problems than authenticity of DNS 
replies.

Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finch  d...@dotat.at  http://dotat.at/


Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-30 Thread Jay Ashworth
Bill Manning saith:
 who intimated that the OOB channel would be http? since that is based
 on the DNS, i'd like to think it was suspect as well. :)

No it's not, Bill, not *necessarily*; you know better than that.  :-)

Cheers,
-- jra



Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-29 Thread Robert E. Seastrom

Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com writes:

 - Original Message -
 From: Doug Barton do...@dougbarton.us

 Now OTOH if someone wants to demonstrate the value in having a
 publication channel for TLD DNSKEYs outside of the root zone, I'm
 certainly willing to listen. Just be forewarned that you will have an
 uphill battle in trying to prove your case. :)

 If you do not, then your clients have little hope of spotting insider 
 malfeasance changes, no?

 Or aren't such changes practical for other reasons which I don't
 understand, not being a DNSSEC maven?

Can you provide us a scenario?

-r




Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-29 Thread Tony Finch
On 29 Dec 2010, at 03:27, Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com wrote:
 
 If you do not, then your clients have little hope of spotting insider 
 malfeasance changes, no?

No cryptography can expose the difference between data that is correctly signed 
by the proper procedures and data that is correctly signed by a corrupt 
procedure.

Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finch  d...@dotat.at  http://dotat.at/




Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message - picking a fight

2010-12-29 Thread bmanning
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 02:56:35PM +, Tony Finch wrote:
 On 28 Dec 2010, at 22:46, bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:
  
 IMHO, key management should be able to use an OOB channel
 when the in-band is corrupted or overlaoded.  Reliance on
 strictly the IB channel presumes there will be no problems
 with that channel.  EVER.   For me, I don't want to take 
 that risk.  YMMV of course.  
 
 If normal DNS resolution fails to work then there's no point in getting the 
 keys from another source since there's no data for them to validate.

oh resoultion works a treat.  its the validation that gets hosed. :)

--bill



Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-29 Thread bmanning
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 11:15:02AM -0500, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote:
 On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 15:01:41 GMT, Tony Finch said:
  No cryptography can expose the difference between data that is correctly
  signed by the proper procedures and data that is correctly signed by a 
  corrupt
  procedure.
 
 Amen...
 
 Well, it *would* help detect an intruder that's smart enough to  subvert the
 signing of the zones on the DNS server, but unable to also subvert the copy
 stored on some FTP site. Rather esoteric threat model, fast approaching
 the Did you remember to take your meds? level.

presuposes the attack was server directed.  the DNS-sniper will take
out your locally configured root KSK /or replace it w/ their own.
no need to carpet-bomb all users of the vt.edu caches - right?

 Plus, if you're worried about foobar.com's zone being maliciously signed, do
 you *really* want to follow a pointer to www.foobar.com to fetch another 
 copy? :)

who intimated that the OOB channel would be http?  since that is based
on the DNS, i'd like to think it was suspect as well. :)

--bill




Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-28 Thread Doug Barton

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Hash: SHA256

On 12/26/2010 09:07, Matt Larson wrote:
| On Thu, 23 Dec 2010, Jay Ashworth wrote:
| From: Matt Larsonmlar...@verisign.com
|
| The new KSK will not be published in an authenticated manner outside
| DNS (e.g., on an SSL-protected web page). Rather, the intended
| mechanism for trusting the new KSK is via the signed root zone: DS
| records corresponding to the new KSK are already present in the root
| zone.
|
| That sounds like a policy decision... and I'm not sure I think it sounds
| like a *good* policy decision, but since no reasons were provided, it's
| difficult to tell.

Actually I thought Matt went to great lengths in his original post to
explain both the current landscape and the reasons why you'd want to
make a change.

| Why was that decision taken, Matt?
|
| Having a zone's KSK statically configured on validators as a trust
| anchor can lead to a world of hurt: when rolling the KSK, the zone
| owner has to get everyone to update their trust anchor configuration.
| In theory, the protocol described in RFC 5011 allows an operator to
| signal a roll and validators will do the right thing.  In practice, in
| these early days, you can't count on much 5011 deployment because
| implementations haven't been available for that long.
|
| This situation puts the operator of a popular signed zone, such as a
| TLD, in a difficult position and makes KSK rolls difficult--but only
| if the KSK is statically configured.  Meanwhile, we now have a
| perfectly good signed root zone that can vouch for any TLD's KSK.  As
| a result, as the impending registry operator for .gov, VeriSign
| doesn't want to encourage static configuration of the .gov KSK as a
| trust anchor.  Such static configuration would be made easier and
| implicitly condoned if the .gov KSK were published and authenticatable
| outside of DNS.

To the extent my opinion counts for anything, this all sounds perfectly
reasonable to me.

Now OTOH if someone wants to demonstrate the value in having a
publication channel for TLD DNSKEYs outside of the root zone, I'm
certainly willing to listen. Just be forewarned that you will have an
uphill battle in trying to prove your case. :)


Doug

- -- 


Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/

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Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message - picking a fight

2010-12-28 Thread bmanning
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 11:41:18AM -0800, Doug Barton wrote:
 
 Now OTOH if someone wants to demonstrate the value in having a
 publication channel for TLD DNSKEYs outside of the root zone, I'm
 certainly willing to listen. Just be forewarned that you will have an
 uphill battle in trying to prove your case. :)
 
 
 Doug

well, not to pick on you, or the choices made by VSGN, 
but I -will- point out that there are many good reasons
to support an out of band method for moving critical data.
(lots of refs on the tradeoffs btwn OOB and IB channels are 
to be found by your fav search engine).

the Internet of last century relied in most cases on in-band
communications.  and what we have seen is the creation of
overlays or outright independent control plane or CC
networks to manage data flow with independent prioritization
over other traffic as the Internet has evolved.  In this case
i think this DNSiSEC model is about 15 years behind the curve.

IMHO, key management should be able to use an OOB channel
when the in-band is corrupted or overlaoded.  Reliance on
strictly the IB channel presumes there will be no problems
with that channel.  EVER.   For me, I don't want to take 
that risk.  YMMV of course.  

I can't presume that you (or anyone else)  share my values
regarding system resilience.  For me, the choice made by
VSGN in regards to this zone presuposes bullet-proof and DDOS
proof communications between servers.  No packet overloads,
no out of memory conditions, no link saturation, etc.  I
appreciate that some might think they live in such a world.
I hope that you and VSGN are lucky.  As for myself, I'm 
making plans to have more control over my DNS verification
destiny.   

If this proves my case to you, wonderful! If not, no sweat,
we'll agree to disagree.

--bill



Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message - picking a fight

2010-12-28 Thread Doug Barton

On 12/28/2010 14:46, bmann...@vacation.karoshi.com wrote:

On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 11:41:18AM -0800, Doug Barton wrote:


Now OTOH if someone wants to demonstrate the value in having a
publication channel for TLD DNSKEYs outside of the root zone, I'm
certainly willing to listen. Just be forewarned that you will have an
uphill battle in trying to prove your case. :)


Doug


well, not to pick on you, or the choices made by VSGN,
but I -will- point out that there are many good reasons
to support an out of band method for moving critical data.
(lots of refs on the tradeoffs btwn OOB and IB channels are
to be found by your fav search engine).


... and while as a general principle I tend to agree with you, I was 
pretty specific in what I asked for.



the Internet of last century relied in most cases on in-band
communications.


Actually I think I can make a pretty convincing argument that the 
Internet of last century relied almost entirely on certain individuals 
meeting face to face at IETF, RIR, and other meetings. But with respect 
to the season I will attempt to be charitable.



  and what we have seen is the creation of
overlays or outright independent control plane or CC
networks to manage data flow with independent prioritization
over other traffic as the Internet has evolved.  In this case
i think this DNSiSEC model is about 15 years behind the curve.

IMHO, key management should be able to use an OOB channel
when the in-band is corrupted or overlaoded.  Reliance on
strictly the IB channel presumes there will be no problems
with that channel.  EVER.   For me, I don't want to take
that risk.  YMMV of course.


I'm not sure I agree that an OOB channel would be useful here, even 
given your premise. Yes, to some extent DNS is distributed, but I think 
the degree of fate-sharing that is inherent in the system makes the OOB 
validation scheme _for TLD DNSKEYs_ (which, again, is what I asked 
about) at best useless, and at worst a giant waste of everyone's time to 
try and do well.



I can't presume that you (or anyone else)  share my values


You could have just stopped here. :)


regarding system resilience.  For me, the choice made by
VSGN in regards to this zone presuposes bullet-proof and DDOS
proof communications between servers.  No packet overloads,
no out of memory conditions, no link saturation, etc.  I
appreciate that some might think they live in such a world.
I hope that you and VSGN are lucky.  As for myself, I'm
making plans to have more control over my DNS verification
destiny.

If this proves my case to you, wonderful! If not, no sweat,
we'll agree to disagree.


Good plan.


Doug

--

Nothin' ever doesn't change, but nothin' changes much.
-- OK Go

Breadth of IT experience, and depth of knowledge in the DNS.
Yours for the right price.  :)  http://SupersetSolutions.com/




Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-28 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message -
 From: Matt Larson mlar...@verisign.com

 On Thu, 23 Dec 2010, Jay Ashworth wrote:
   From: Matt Larson mlar...@verisign.com
 
   The new KSK will not be published in an authenticated manner
   outside DNS (e.g., on an SSL-protected web page). Rather, the intended
   mechanism for trusting the new KSK is via the signed root zone: DS
   records corresponding to the new KSK are already present in the
   root zone.
 
  That sounds like a policy decision... and I'm not sure I think it
  sounds like a *good* policy decision, but since no reasons were provided,
  it's difficult to tell.
 
  Why was that decision taken, Matt?
 
 Having a zone's KSK statically configured on validators as a trust
 anchor can lead to a world of hurt: when rolling the KSK, the zone
 owner has to get everyone to update their trust anchor configuration.
 In theory, the protocol described in RFC 5011 allows an operator to
 signal a roll and validators will do the right thing. In practice, in
 these early days, you can't count on much 5011 deployment because
 implementations haven't been available for that long.

Yes, I'd gathered that.

 This situation puts the operator of a popular signed zone, such as a
 TLD, in a difficult position and makes KSK rolls difficult--but only
 if the KSK is statically configured. Meanwhile, we now have a
 perfectly good signed root zone that can vouch for any TLD's KSK. As
 a result, as the impending registry operator for .gov, VeriSign
 doesn't want to encourage static configuration of the .gov KSK as a
 trust anchor. Such static configuration would be made easier and
 implicitly condoned if the .gov KSK were published and authenticatable
 outside of DNS.

Ok, having re-read this a third time, now on a full sized screen, I guess
I see what you're driving at: you don't *want* an out-of-band auth channel,
*because people will use it*.

 Note that the situation is the same today with the signed .net zone
 (and will be the same for the .com zone when it is signed in Q1 of
 2011): the .net KSK is intentionally not published outside DNS. The
 path to trusting that key is via the signed DS record corresponding to
 it in the root zone.

Just remember what Lazarus Long said: put all your eggs in one basket,
certainly.  But make sure it's a *very good*  basket.

Cheers,
-- jr 'where am I going?  And why am I in this handbasket?' a



Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-28 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message -
 From: Florian Weimer f...@deneb.enyo.de
  That sounds like a policy decision... and I'm not sure I think it sounds
  like a *good* policy decision, but since no reasons were provided, it's
  difficult to tell.
 
 I don't know if it influenced the policy decision, but as it is
 currently specified, the protocol ensures that configuring an
 additional trust anchor never decreases availability when you've also
 got the root trust anchor configured, it can only increase it. This
 means that there is little reason to configure such a trust anchor,
 especially in the present scenario.

Not being a DNSSEC maven, the idea that there was no out-of-band way to 
confirm what the in-band method was telling you seemed bad to me; Matt's 
explanation, OTOH, seems sensible.

Cheers,
-- jra



Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-28 Thread Kevin Oberman
 Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 21:17:57 -0500 (EST)
 From: Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com
 
 - Original Message -
  From: Florian Weimer f...@deneb.enyo.de
   That sounds like a policy decision... and I'm not sure I think it sounds
   like a *good* policy decision, but since no reasons were provided, it's
   difficult to tell.
  
  I don't know if it influenced the policy decision, but as it is
  currently specified, the protocol ensures that configuring an
  additional trust anchor never decreases availability when you've also
  got the root trust anchor configured, it can only increase it. This
  means that there is little reason to configure such a trust anchor,
  especially in the present scenario.
 
 Not being a DNSSEC maven, the idea that there was no out-of-band way to 
 confirm what the in-band method was telling you seemed bad to me; Matt's 
 explanation, OTOH, seems sensible.

There is no reason that you could not do OOB transfers of keys, but it
would be so cumbersome with the need to maintain keys for every TLD
(and, for that matter, every zone under them) and deal with key rolls at
random intervals and confirm that the new keys you were getting were, in
fact legitimate would be more than overwhelming. It just does not scale.

DNSSEC(bis) was designed to deal with this by being able to
cryptographically confirm that all data is valid and all keys are
legitimate as long as you have the root key. I am not about to go into
how all of this is accomplished, but it does.

Some parts of it are still a bit fragile, but the basic DNSSEC spec is
now very solid and the implementations of it are getting to pretty
good. (Can hardly wait for BIND 10!)

I think the DNSSEC spec is a very good basket and I hope that the
current implementations are, as well. At least I am very confident
that they will fail-safe.
-- 
R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
E-mail: ober...@es.net  Phone: +1 510 486-8634
Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4  EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751



Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-28 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message -
 From: Doug Barton do...@dougbarton.us

 Now OTOH if someone wants to demonstrate the value in having a
 publication channel for TLD DNSKEYs outside of the root zone, I'm
 certainly willing to listen. Just be forewarned that you will have an
 uphill battle in trying to prove your case. :)

If you do not, then your clients have little hope of spotting insider 
malfeasance changes, no?

Or aren't such changes practical for other reasons which I don't
understand, not being a DNSSEC maven?

Cheers,
-- jra



Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-28 Thread Jay Ashworth
 Original Message -
 From: Kevin Oberman ober...@es.net

 There is no reason that you could not do OOB transfers of keys, but it
 would be so cumbersome with the need to maintain keys for every TLD
 (and, for that matter, every zone under them) and deal with key rolls
 at random intervals and confirm that the new keys you were getting were,
 in fact legitimate would be more than overwhelming. It just does not
 scale.

I apologize; I was not clear.

I was not suggesting OOB *production transfer of keying information*.

I was rather suggesting that an additional publication of the keys, in
an authenticatable manner, which could be used by anyone who believed
that Something Hincky might be going on to confirm or deny, might be
useful.

Cheers,
-- jra



Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-28 Thread Kevin Oberman
 Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 22:34:20 -0500 (EST)
 From: Jay Ashworth j...@baylink.com
 
  Original Message -
  From: Kevin Oberman ober...@es.net
 
  There is no reason that you could not do OOB transfers of keys, but it
  would be so cumbersome with the need to maintain keys for every TLD
  (and, for that matter, every zone under them) and deal with key rolls
  at random intervals and confirm that the new keys you were getting were,
  in fact legitimate would be more than overwhelming. It just does not
  scale.
 
 I apologize; I was not clear.
 
 I was not suggesting OOB *production transfer of keying information*.
 
 I was rather suggesting that an additional publication of the keys, in
 an authenticatable manner, which could be used by anyone who believed
 that Something Hincky might be going on to confirm or deny, might be
 useful.

Ahh. I did miss your point and I suspect others (other than Bill) might
have, as well.

Yes, having a verifiable source of keys OOB might have a small bit of
value, but, assuming we get general adoption of RFC 5011, I think it's
pretty limited value. Of course, this begs the question, how do we do a
better job of verifying the keys received out of band than the root zone
does of verifying the keys? Sort of a chicken and egg problem.
-- 
R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer
Energy Sciences Network (ESnet)
Ernest O. Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory (Berkeley Lab)
E-mail: ober...@es.net  Phone: +1 510 486-8634
Key fingerprint:059B 2DDF 031C 9BA3 14A4  EADA 927D EBB3 987B 3751



Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-28 Thread bmanning
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 08:07:22PM -0800, Kevin Oberman wrote:
 
 Yes, having a verifiable source of keys OOB might have a small bit of
 value, but, assuming we get general adoption of RFC 5011, I think it's
 pretty limited value. Of course, this begs the question, how do we do a
 better job of verifying the keys received out of band than the root zone
 does of verifying the keys? Sort of a chicken and egg problem.
 -- 
 R. Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer

presumes RFC 5011 is viable.  fall outside the 30day window and
your screwed. :)  that said,  what folks came up w/ for the root
key roll might be a useful template, e.g. the use of TCR's and
use an M/N assurance check - in those rare cases where your just
foobarr'ed and you can't take your servers into the SCIF to rekey.

and/or an alternative to the strict timing constraints in RFC 5011
with a protocol that gives more leyway for a node being offline
over a keyroll interval.

There -should- be a functional equivalent of OTAR for DNSSEC keys
that is not constrained to a tight window... IMHO of course.


--bill



Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-26 Thread Florian Weimer
* Jay Ashworth:

 - Original Message -
 From: Matt Larson mlar...@verisign.com

 The new KSK will not be published in an authenticated manner outside
 DNS (e.g., on an SSL-protected web page). Rather, the intended
 mechanism for trusting the new KSK is via the signed root zone: DS
 records corresponding to the new KSK are already present in the root
 zone.

 That sounds like a policy decision... and I'm not sure I think it sounds
 like a *good* policy decision, but since no reasons were provided, it's 
 difficult to tell.

I don't know if it influenced the policy decision, but as it is
currently specified, the protocol ensures that configuring an
additional trust anchor never decreases availability when you've also
got the root trust anchor configured, it can only increase it.  This
means that there is little reason to configure such a trust anchor,
especially in the present scenario.



Re: .gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-23 Thread Jay Ashworth
- Original Message -
 From: Matt Larson mlar...@verisign.com

 The new KSK will not be published in an authenticated manner outside
 DNS (e.g., on an SSL-protected web page). Rather, the intended
 mechanism for trusting the new KSK is via the signed root zone: DS
 records corresponding to the new KSK are already present in the root
 zone.

That sounds like a policy decision... and I'm not sure I think it sounds
like a *good* policy decision, but since no reasons were provided, it's 
difficult to tell.

Why was that decision taken, Matt?

Cheers,
-- jra



.gov DNSSEC operational message

2010-12-22 Thread Matt Larson
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A KSK roll for the .gov zone will occur at the end of January, 2011.
This key change is necessitated by a registry operator transition:
VeriSign has been selected by the U.S. General Services Administration
(GSA) to operate the domain name registry for .gov.  It is important
that you prepare for this key change NOW.

DO NOT WAIT until late January, 2011, to take action: the changes
described below should be made as soon as possible.

Because .gov was signed prior to the signing of the root zone, it is
reasonable to believe that many DNSSEC validators (usually part of
recursive name servers) have the .gov zone's KSK statically configured
as a trust anchor.  Further, because automated trust anchor rollover
software implementing the protocol described in RFC 5011 has not been
widely available until recently, it is reasonable to believe that few
validators with a statically configured .gov trust anchor would be
able to understand a KSK roll using RFC 5011 semantics and update
their trust anchor store automatically.

VeriSign is sending this message to announce the impending .gov KSK
roll so that the DNSSEC operational community will be informed of the
change and has the opportunity to take the necessary steps to prepare
for it.

The .gov KSK roll will occur between 27 January 2011 and 31 January
2011.  The rollover will not use RFC 5011 semantics because of issues
surrounding the registry operator transition.

The new KSK will not be published in an authenticated manner outside
DNS (e.g., on an SSL-protected web page).  Rather, the intended
mechanism for trusting the new KSK is via the signed root zone: DS
records corresponding to the new KSK are already present in the root
zone.

Because the root zone has had DS records corresponding to the current
.gov KSK since 27 October 2010, static configuration of a trust anchor
for .gov is currently no longer strictly necessary.

Because there will be no non-DNS-based mechanism to authenticate
subsequent .gov KSKs, configuration of the .gov KSK as a trust anchor
is NOT RECOMMENDED.

Take these steps NOW to prepare for the .gov KSK roll in late January
2011:

1. If your DNSSEC validators DO NOT HAVE a trust anchor for the root
zone configured, CONFIGURE the root zone's KSK as a trust anchor.  An
authenticated version of the root zone's KSK is available at
http://data.iana.org/root-anchors/.

2. If your DNSSEC validators have a trust anchor for the .gov zone
configured, REMOVE the .gov zone's KSK as a trust anchor from your
validator's configuration.

If you follow both steps above, your DNSSEC validators should continue
to validate names in .gov, but the .gov KSK will be authenticated via
the signed root's KSK rather than a locally configured trust anchor.

DO NOT WAIT until late January, 2011, to take these actions: the trust
anchor changes described above should be made as soon as possible.

If you have any questions or comments, please send email to
regist...@dotgov.gov or reply to this message.
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