Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Fletcher Kittredge]

On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 1:00 PM, Rod Beck 
wrote:

> Unless I am mistaken, that is an old legacy route. I don't think it is a
> new build. I know at one time Hibernia was selling its undersea link from
> Halifax to Boston as a back up for that route. On the other hand, there
> have been some Canadian carrier builds recently so may be it's not legacy.
>
No, this is not a legacy route. It was a new route constructed in 2012 as
part of the Federal BTOP ARRA program. It is a 1,100 mile high strand count
fiber ring around Maine with multiple border crossings. Dozens of carriers
are using it.


-- 
Fletcher Kittredge
GWI

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Jean-Francois Mezei]

On 2017-08-16 18:29, Christopher Morrell wrote:
> Let’s not forget that all POTS and cell service was offline during the
> outage - even for local and 911 service.


It would be interesting to know how incumbent telco services within
Aliant territory became dependent on a link to central Canada. Whenh on
dials 911 in Moncton, does it require some database inquiry to some
database in Toronto, failing which, the call can't go through?




(Aliant, which used to be separate maritime telcos was bought lock stock
and barrel by Bell Canada a couple years ago, so likely rationlized some
services to save costs, so anything that became dependent on some
Toronto server would stop working)

The CRTC asked Bell for a report on what happened, but told media that
report may not be made public.

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Rod Beck]

Unless I am mistaken, that is an old legacy route. I don't think it is a new 
build. I know at one time Hibernia was selling its undersea link from Halifax 
to Boston as a back up for that route. On the other hand, there have been some 
Canadian carrier builds recently so may be it's not legacy.


Regards,


Roderick



From: NANOG <nanog-boun...@nanog.org> on behalf of Fletcher Kittredge 
<fkitt...@gwi.net>
Sent: Wednesday, August 16, 2017 10:29 PM
To: Clinton Work
Cc: NANOG list
Subject: Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

There is a third route from Halifax -> New Brunswick -> Portland, ME ->
[Albany, Boston]

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Clinton Work <clin...@scripty.com> wrote:

> I can't speak for the Bell Aliant network, but I'm only aware of two
> diverse fiber routes out of Halifax, Nova Scotia.   Halifax -> New
> Brunswick -> Quebec City is the Canadian route and Halifax -> Boston is
> the diverse route.
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 01:52 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
> > Perhaps some transatlantic fallback?  It looks like the only cable out
> > there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive?  It
> > only gets you to Iceland it seems.
> >
>
>


--
Fletcher Kittredge
GWI
207-602-1134
www.gwi.net<http://www.gwi.net>
GWI: Phone and High Speed Internet services for your Maine 
...<http://www.gwi.net/>
www.gwi.net
GWI Home and Business Phone and High Speed Internet services in Maine. Business 
Wide Area Networks, Hosted PBX, cloud computing and data center services.

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Christopher Morrell]

Let’s not forget that all POTS and cell service was offline during the
outage - even for local and 911 service.

There is some high level of dependence on some equipment in Quebec and/or
westward which should not be there.

A double fault like that should not knock out all local service for 4 out
of 10 provinces. I would expect that an architectural review is under way.


On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 16:14 Paul Stewart  wrote:

> It wasn’t an issue getting transatlantic - it was an issue within a
> relatively small region in Eastern Canada talking to the rest of the world
> for certain carriers.  There were several smaller carriers/providers not
> affected - just happens the local incumbent telco and one of their larger
> competitors got knocked out …
>
>
> > On Aug 15, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Jared Mauch  wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On Aug 15, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Rod Beck 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage?
> Appears there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same
> conduit? Is this a collapsed ring scenario?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-bell-outage-1.4239064
> >
> > Perhaps some transatlantic fallback?  It looks like the only cable out
> there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive?  It only
> gets you to Iceland it seems.
> >
> > - Jared
>
>

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Paul Stewart]

Yeah good point Chris …. Got thinking about this too much from an IP 
perspective :)



> On Aug 16, 2017, at 6:29 PM, Christopher Morrell 
>  wrote:
> 
> Let’s not forget that all POTS and cell service was offline during the outage 
> - even for local and 911 service. 
> 
> There is some high level of dependence on some equipment in Quebec and/or 
> westward which should not be there.
> 
> A double fault like that should not knock out all local service for 4 out of 
> 10 provinces. I would expect that an architectural review is under way. 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Aug 16, 2017 at 16:14 Paul Stewart  > wrote:
> It wasn’t an issue getting transatlantic - it was an issue within a 
> relatively small region in Eastern Canada talking to the rest of the world 
> for certain carriers.  There were several smaller carriers/providers not 
> affected - just happens the local incumbent telco and one of their larger 
> competitors got knocked out …
> 
> 
> > On Aug 15, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Jared Mauch  > > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On Aug 15, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Rod Beck  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears 
> >> there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is 
> >> this a collapsed ring scenario?
> >>
> >>
> >> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-bell-outage-1.4239064
> >>  
> >> 
> >
> > Perhaps some transatlantic fallback?  It looks like the only cable out 
> > there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive?  It only 
> > gets you to Iceland it seems.
> >
> > - Jared
> 

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Fletcher Kittredge]

There is a third route from Halifax -> New Brunswick -> Portland, ME ->
[Albany, Boston]

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Clinton Work  wrote:

> I can't speak for the Bell Aliant network, but I'm only aware of two
> diverse fiber routes out of Halifax, Nova Scotia.   Halifax -> New
> Brunswick -> Quebec City is the Canadian route and Halifax -> Boston is
> the diverse route.
>
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 01:52 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
> > Perhaps some transatlantic fallback?  It looks like the only cable out
> > there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive?  It
> > only gets you to Iceland it seems.
> >
>
>


-- 
Fletcher Kittredge
GWI
207-602-1134
www.gwi.net

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Martin Hannigan]

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 3:52 PM, Jared Mauch  wrote:

>
> > On Aug 15, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Rod Beck 
> wrote:
> >
> > Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage?
> Appears there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same
> conduit? Is this a collapsed ring scenario?
> >
> >
> > http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns
> -about-backup-bell-outage-1.4239064
>
> Perhaps some transatlantic fallback?  It looks like the only cable out
> there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive?  It only
> gets you to Iceland it seems.
>
>
For background on the Greenland Connect cable, the UKNOF presentation I
presented (built by Heller, Harland, and I) in 2009 is here at
http://bit.ly/GrConnect - You can get past Iceland for sure. Just not for
free.

(Honorable mentions in all of this for AMS-IX, LINX, Nick Hilliard, Andy
Davidson and Will Hargrave. Remco van Mook got the Golden Jökulhlaup for
his part).

The route was cost prohibitive as you guessed. There was reach-ability from
the EU to CA via RVK and GOH, The built paths were CPH-RVK-GOH-YHZ and
LON-RVK-GOH-YHZ. While the GOH route were most prohibitive, the RVK paths
less so. It was much cheaper to route LON to LGA via Hibernia. I like it as
a back up path. So did a few banks. But cost. Do I think this is a viable
path? Yes. Will it ever come down in cost? I'd go back to try this again.
Maybe things have changed?

Best,

-M<

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Doug Barton]

Does this sound like a dry run to anyone else? Or did I forget to take 
my anti-paranoia pills today?



On 08/15/2017 06:05 PM, David Charlebois wrote:

Just read this on http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/bell-aliant-says-
double-cable-cut-that-led-to-cell-outages-was-perfect-storm-1.3547018

"Bell spokesman Nathan Gibson says the first cut was by a highway
construction crew near Drummondville, Que.

He says service wasn't impacted in any significant way because of
redundancy in the network until a second major cut near Richibucto, N.B.,
by a logging company in a densely forested location.

He says the second cut was difficult to access and took some time to locate
precisely, and the site's inaccessibility slowed the arrival of heavy
equipment and repair crews."

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Paul Stewart]

It wasn’t an issue getting transatlantic - it was an issue within a relatively 
small region in Eastern Canada talking to the rest of the world for certain 
carriers.  There were several smaller carriers/providers not affected - just 
happens the local incumbent telco and one of their larger competitors got 
knocked out … 


> On Aug 15, 2017, at 3:52 PM, Jared Mauch  wrote:
> 
> 
>> On Aug 15, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Rod Beck  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears 
>> there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is 
>> this a collapsed ring scenario?
>> 
>> 
>> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-bell-outage-1.4239064
> 
> Perhaps some transatlantic fallback?  It looks like the only cable out there 
> is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive?  It only gets 
> you to Iceland it seems.
> 
> - Jared

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Paul Stewart]

Never really heard a lot about it  …. We never lost connectivity to Halifax 
from Montreal via Hibernia - interesting topic though as we have a backup path 
that I’m looking to replace :)

Paul


> On Aug 15, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Rod Beck  wrote:
> 
> Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears 
> there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is 
> this a collapsed ring scenario?
> 
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-bell-outage-1.4239064
> 
> 
> Roderick Beck
> 
> Director of Global Sales
> 
> United Cable Company
> 
> DRG Undersea Consulting
> 
> Affiliate Member
> 
> www.unitedcablecompany.com
> 
> 85 Király utca, 1077 Budapest
> 
> rod.b...@unitedcablecompany.com
> 
> 36-30-859-5144
> 
> 
> [1467221477350_image005.png]

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[David Charlebois]

Just read this on http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/bell-aliant-says-
double-cable-cut-that-led-to-cell-outages-was-perfect-storm-1.3547018

"Bell spokesman Nathan Gibson says the first cut was by a highway
construction crew near Drummondville, Que.

He says service wasn't impacted in any significant way because of
redundancy in the network until a second major cut near Richibucto, N.B.,
by a logging company in a densely forested location.

He says the second cut was difficult to access and took some time to locate
precisely, and the site's inaccessibility slowed the arrival of heavy
equipment and repair crews."

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017 at 6:04 PM, JASON BOTHE <jbo...@me.com> wrote:

> Interesting enough, we did not lose connectivity to our offices in PEI, so
> I assume there is some diversity from that point in the Bell network.
>
> J~
>
> > On 15, Aug 2017, at 3:37 PM, Rod Beck <rod.b...@unitedcablecompany.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Well Hibernia had those routes. I thought it would have been the 360
> terrestrial cable and Hibernia's underwater cable from Halifax to their
> Boston landing station.
> >
> >
> > 
> > From: NANOG <nanog-boun...@nanog.org> on behalf of Clinton Work <
> clin...@scripty.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:07 PM
> > To: nanog@nanog.org
> > Subject: Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut
> >
> > I can't speak for the Bell Aliant network, but I'm only aware of two
> > diverse fiber routes out of Halifax, Nova Scotia.   Halifax -> New
> > Brunswick -> Quebec City is the Canadian route and Halifax -> Boston is
> > the diverse route.
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 01:52 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
> >> Perhaps some transatlantic fallback?  It looks like the only cable out
> >> there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive?  It
> >> only gets you to Iceland it seems.
> >>
> >
>
>

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[JASON BOTHE]

Interesting enough, we did not lose connectivity to our offices in PEI, so I 
assume there is some diversity from that point in the Bell network.

J~

> On 15, Aug 2017, at 3:37 PM, Rod Beck <rod.b...@unitedcablecompany.com> wrote:
> 
> Well Hibernia had those routes. I thought it would have been the 360 
> terrestrial cable and Hibernia's underwater cable from Halifax to their 
> Boston landing station.
> 
> 
> 
> From: NANOG <nanog-boun...@nanog.org> on behalf of Clinton Work 
> <clin...@scripty.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:07 PM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut
> 
> I can't speak for the Bell Aliant network, but I'm only aware of two
> diverse fiber routes out of Halifax, Nova Scotia.   Halifax -> New
> Brunswick -> Quebec City is the Canadian route and Halifax -> Boston is
> the diverse route.
> 
> On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 01:52 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
>> Perhaps some transatlantic fallback?  It looks like the only cable out
>> there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive?  It
>> only gets you to Iceland it seems.
>> 
> 

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Rod Beck]

Well Hibernia had those routes. I thought it would have been the 360 
terrestrial cable and Hibernia's underwater cable from Halifax to their Boston 
landing station.



From: NANOG <nanog-boun...@nanog.org> on behalf of Clinton Work 
<clin...@scripty.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 10:07 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

I can't speak for the Bell Aliant network, but I'm only aware of two
diverse fiber routes out of Halifax, Nova Scotia.   Halifax -> New
Brunswick -> Quebec City is the Canadian route and Halifax -> Boston is
the diverse route.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 01:52 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
> Perhaps some transatlantic fallback?  It looks like the only cable out
> there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive?  It
> only gets you to Iceland it seems.
>

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Clinton Work]

I can't speak for the Bell Aliant network, but I'm only aware of two
diverse fiber routes out of Halifax, Nova Scotia.   Halifax -> New
Brunswick -> Quebec City is the Canadian route and Halifax -> Boston is
the diverse route.  

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 01:52 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
> Perhaps some transatlantic fallback?  It looks like the only cable out
> there is the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive?  It
> only gets you to Iceland it seems.
> 

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Jared Mauch]

> On Aug 15, 2017, at 1:22 PM, Rod Beck  wrote:
> 
> Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears 
> there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is 
> this a collapsed ring scenario?
> 
> 
> http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-bell-outage-1.4239064

Perhaps some transatlantic fallback?  It looks like the only cable out there is 
the Greenland one.. guessing that’s not very competitive?  It only gets you to 
Iceland it seems.

- Jared

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Rod Beck]

In other words, bad luck. Probability dictates if enough time transpires, every 
bad thing will happen. 



From: NANOG <nanog-boun...@nanog.org> on behalf of Clinton Work 
<clin...@scripty.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2017 8:59 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

My understanding is that the Bell Aliant outage was a double fault
situation.   Bell Aliant had a fiber cut on one of their fiber routes
early in the morning and then they had a fault on the diverse fiber
route before the first trouble could be repaired.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 11:22 AM, Rod Beck wrote:
> Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears
> there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit?
> Is this a collapsed ring scenario?
>

Re: Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Clinton Work]

My understanding is that the Bell Aliant outage was a double fault
situation.   Bell Aliant had a fiber cut on one of their fiber routes
early in the morning and then they had a fault on the diverse fiber
route before the first trouble could be repaired.  

On Tue, Aug 15, 2017, at 11:22 AM, Rod Beck wrote:
> Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears
> there were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit?
> Is this a collapsed ring scenario?
> 

Last Week's Canadian Fiber Cut

[Rod Beck]

Did we ever get any resolution on why this was such a big outage? Appears there 
were two fiber cuts. Were the fibers damaged in the same conduit? Is this a 
collapsed ring scenario?


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/concerns-about-backup-bell-outage-1.4239064


Roderick Beck

Director of Global Sales

United Cable Company

DRG Undersea Consulting

Affiliate Member

www.unitedcablecompany.com

85 Király utca, 1077 Budapest

rod.b...@unitedcablecompany.com

36-30-859-5144


[1467221477350_image005.png]