Re: Multi-homed implementation and BGP convergence time
On 11 Sep 2009, at 21:54, andrew.clayba...@securian.com wrote: Hello - my company currently has two connections with a single tier 1 ISP. We are using the AS from our ISP at this time. In the next month we will be implementing a third connection with a second tier 1 ISP, so we will now be using our own AS number on all three routers. Does this mean that right now, you BGP peer with your ISP on a private ASN which they have given you ? I also assume that you have your own PI, and that you are not deaggregating some of your providers' addressing My question is when we implement the new connection and update our existing connections to use are own AS number, how much downtime will there be? So far the second ISP has only said that it could be hours for BGP to fully converge. We are looking for more detail about how long the outage will be and how widespread. It will be hours if you don't plan the work in advance, but if you partner with someone who rolls this stuff out all of the time to plan and execute the work, then there will be a short amount of downtime. If your kit supports local-as, then I would roll this out in a few phases. - Migrate to your new ASN for ibgp, use local-as to announce via the old asn on your ebgp session with ISP1. This is the bit where the service disruption will be. By keeping the scope of this window small, you increase the chances of this disruptive maintenance working fine. - Turn up isp2. Test, thoroughly. - Migrate isp1 from the private asn to your new public asn. All traffic should pass through isp2, so disruption should be limited. Test, thoroughly. Will it be relatively short to our customers that are on one of the ISPs we are directly connected to? Is downtime less for customers on other tier 1 ISPs versus tier 2, etc. ISPs? Downtime is less the more competent your ISP. :-) Tierness is not a measure of this. Sorry for the late reply, if this still needs to be rolled out, then we can help. Best wishes Andy -- Regards, Andy Davidson +44 (0)20 7993 1700 www.netsumo.com NetSumo Specialist networks consultancy for ISPs, Whitelabel 24/7 NOC /* Opinions are mine do not constitute policy of those I work for */
Multi-homed implementation and BGP convergence time
Hello - my company currently has two connections with a single tier 1 ISP. We are using the AS from our ISP at this time. In the next month we will be implementing a third connection with a second tier 1 ISP, so we will now be using our own AS number on all three routers. My question is when we implement the new connection and update our existing connections to use are own AS number, how much downtime will there be? So far the second ISP has only said that it could be hours for BGP to fully converge. We are looking for more detail about how long the outage will be and how widespread. Will it be relatively short to our customers that are on one of the ISPs we are directly connected to? Is downtime less for customers on other tier 1 ISPs versus tier 2, etc. ISPs? We will only be receiving a default route on each of the three connections. Our routers will be advertising a small number of routes - 6 to 8. Thank you. Andy Claybaugh
Re: Multi-homed implementation and BGP convergence time
--- andrew.clayba...@securian.com wrote: From: andrew.clayba...@securian.com own AS number, how much downtime will there be? So far the second ISP has only said that it could be hours for BGP to fully converge. We are looking for more detail about how long the outage will be and how widespread. --- 1) Hire someone that has done this before. There're many things to be aware of. 2) Get a different provider. Anyone that said it could be hours for BGP to fully converge is misleading you. Especially, if you're a new customer to them. That's a bad omen for things to come. This can be done with very minimal impact. scott
Re: Multi-homed implementation and BGP convergence time
andrew.clayba...@securian.com wrote: Hello - my company currently has two connections with a single tier 1 ISP. We are using the AS from our ISP at this time. In the next month we will be implementing a third connection with a second tier 1 ISP, so we will now be using our own AS number on all three routers. My question is when we implement the new connection and update our existing connections to use are own AS number, how much downtime will there be? So far the second ISP has only said that it could be hours for BGP to fully converge. We are looking for more detail about how long the outage will be and how widespread. It should not take several hours. Typically less than 15 minutes. I would suggest that you first ensure that your networks and ASN are in the routing registries. Then schedule a downtime with your present ISP and begin advertising using your ASN. If you're not presently speaking BGP with your existing ISP, set that up first advertising your network(s) with your own ASN. Will it be relatively short to our customers that are on one of the ISPs we are directly connected to? Is downtime less for customers on other tier 1 ISPs versus tier 2, etc. ISPs? There may be a short downtime when you switch to originating from your own ASN. With sufficient clue on your part and that of your current ISP, and assuming that either of the two connections can handle all of your traffic, you may be able to eliminate most or all of it. Adding the second ISP won't result in significant downtime especially if you're just taking default routes and your routers don't need to build large BGP tables. Tier 1, tier 2 etc. are terms used primarily by salespeople, and don't have a lot to do with technical matters. We will only be receiving a default route on each of the three connections. Our routers will be advertising a small number of routes - 6 to 8. -- Jay Hennigan - CCIE #7880 - Network Engineering - j...@impulse.net Impulse Internet Service - http://www.impulse.net/ Your local telephone and internet company - 805 884-6323 - WB6RDV
RE: Multi-homed implementation and BGP convergence time
The time should be measured in seconds for your BGP advertised prefixes to propagate to most of the Internet. It may take longer for some isolated ISP's to receive the routes. If you use the longest prefix method to advertise to your preferred ISP, a convergence to the backup ISP (where shorter prefixes are advertised) may take 30 seconds or so max. Converging back to the preferred ISP should take a few seconds max. -Original Message- From: andrew.clayba...@securian.com [mailto:andrew.clayba...@securian.com] Sent: Friday, September 11, 2009 1:55 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Multi-homed implementation and BGP convergence time Hello - my company currently has two connections with a single tier 1 ISP. We are using the AS from our ISP at this time. In the next month we will be implementing a third connection with a second tier 1 ISP, so we will now be using our own AS number on all three routers. My question is when we implement the new connection and update our existing connections to use are own AS number, how much downtime will there be? So far the second ISP has only said that it could be hours for BGP to fully converge. We are looking for more detail about how long the outage will be and how widespread. Will it be relatively short to our customers that are on one of the ISPs we are directly connected to? Is downtime less for customers on other tier 1 ISPs versus tier 2, etc. ISPs? We will only be receiving a default route on each of the three connections. Our routers will be advertising a small number of routes - 6 to 8. Thank you. Andy Claybaugh
Re: Multi-homed implementation and BGP convergence time
andrew.clayba...@securian.com wrote: Hello - my company currently has two connections with a single tier 1 ISP. We are using the AS from our ISP at this time. In the next month we will be implementing a third connection with a second tier 1 ISP, so we will now be using our own AS number on all three routers. My question is when we implement the new connection and update our existing connections to use are own AS number, how much downtime will there be? So far the second ISP has only said that it could be hours for BGP to fully converge. We are looking for more detail about how long the outage will be and how widespread. Hours? No way. It's more like minutes. Will it be relatively short to our customers that are on one of the ISPs we are directly connected to? Is downtime less for customers on other tier 1 ISPs versus tier 2, etc. ISPs? Doesn't matter. We will only be receiving a default route on each of the three connections. Our routers will be advertising a small number of routes - 6 to 8. I strongly encourage you to reconsider and take more than a default if you're multihoming and your routers have enough memory. Remember to create a full mesh on your BGP routers. And as already said, if you're totally new to BGP and multihoming, hire someone with experience in such matters to set it up. ~Seth
Re: Multi-homed implementation and BGP convergence time
Seth Mattinen wrote: Jay Hennigan wrote: Tier 1, tier 2 etc. are terms used primarily by salespeople, and don't have a lot to do with technical matters. Sure it does. If you're multihoming it will increase your AS path length. There is no general correlation between AS path length and whether or not a network pays to exchange traffic. There is a noticeable correlation between cost and local-preference, as-path prepending, metric setting and other ways networks control how they send you traffic. This is affected by peering selectivity as well as transit prices. - Kevin
Re: Multi-homed implementation and BGP convergence time
Kevin Loch wrote: Seth Mattinen wrote: Jay Hennigan wrote: Tier 1, tier 2 etc. are terms used primarily by salespeople, and don't have a lot to do with technical matters. Sure it does. If you're multihoming it will increase your AS path length. There is no general correlation between AS path length and whether or not a network pays to exchange traffic. That has nothing to do with what I was trying to say. When one mixes shorter/longer paths, you will generally see most of your traffic come in via the shorter path. It's like if I were to multihome with the local cable co (who has Level3 as an upstream) with a connection to Level3 myself. It's not likely that traffic inbound to me is going to choose the longer route unless the shorter one is down, and it's pointless as a backup because a regional outage affecting Level3 may kill the cable co's link to them as well. ~Seth
