Re: Friday Hosing
On 17/07/13 23:52, Jeff Walter wrote: On 7/17/13 1:59 PM, Alex Harrowell wrote: On 15/07/13 01:09, Tony Patti wrote: TWELVE years ago (press release March 20 2001), Comcast deployed Linux-based Sun Cobalt Qube appliances as CPE with their business-class Internet service, these provided firewall security, web caching, optional content filtering, an e-mail server, a web server, file and print servers. This is a good idea At the time it may have been the best option, but that doesn't make it a good idea. I can't even begin to comprehend the number of support calls generated by providing CPE with those functions. That said, I can think of a couple of European quality ISPs that hand out CPE approaching that degree of feature richness - Free.fr's Freeboxes (although that's consumer-oriented), Andrews Arnold's Firebricks come to mind. -- Jeff Walter
Re: Friday Hosing
JVNCNet survived and became operated by Global Enterprise Services, the company Sergio created to spin off the network out of Princeton University, GES was acquired by Verio in 1997 and Sergio moved to start another company. Last message I've got from him said he was in Panama providing consulting in network security or something like that. The Princeton office was closed by Verio as far as I remember in 2003. -Jorge On Jul 17, 2013, at 9:16 PM, Gordon Cook c...@cookreport.com wrote: * Alex Rubenstein (a...@corp.nac.net) wrote: Ohh we had some of those at JVNCNet, a real piece of crap. Wow. JVNCnet. Haven't heard that name in a long, long time. Same here. I worked there from September 1987 through the closure in june of 1990. Whatever happened to Sergio Heker?
Re: Friday Hosing
On 15/07/13 01:09, Tony Patti wrote: TWELVE years ago (press release March 20 2001), Comcast deployed Linux-based Sun Cobalt Qube appliances as CPE with their business-class Internet service, these provided firewall security, web caching, optional content filtering, an e-mail server, a web server, file and print servers. This is a good idea.
Re: Friday Hosing
On 7/17/13 1:59 PM, Alex Harrowell wrote: On 15/07/13 01:09, Tony Patti wrote: TWELVE years ago (press release March 20 2001), Comcast deployed Linux-based Sun Cobalt Qube appliances as CPE with their business-class Internet service, these provided firewall security, web caching, optional content filtering, an e-mail server, a web server, file and print servers. This is a good idea At the time it may have been the best option, but that doesn't make it a good idea. I can't even begin to comprehend the number of support calls generated by providing CPE with those functions. -- Jeff Walter signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Friday Hosing
On 7/17/2013 1:59 PM, Alex Harrowell wrote: On 15/07/13 01:09, Tony Patti wrote: TWELVE years ago (press release March 20 2001), Comcast deployed Linux-based Sun Cobalt Qube appliances as CPE with their business-class Internet service, these provided firewall security, web caching, optional content filtering, an e-mail server, a web server, file and print servers. This is a good idea. . Whistle Interjet -- circa 1995
Re: Friday Hosing
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 16:36:19 -0700, Roy said: On 7/17/2013 1:59 PM, Alex Harrowell wrote: On 15/07/13 01:09, Tony Patti wrote: TWELVE years ago (press release March 20 2001), Comcast deployed Linux-based Sun Cobalt Qube appliances as CPE with their business-class Internet service, these provided firewall security, web caching, optional content filtering, an e-mail server, a web server, file and print servers. This is a good idea. Whistle Interjet -- circa 1995 Of course, in 1995, if you gave a customer something like that, there was still a reasonably good chance that doing so wouldn't generate a ton of support calls, because if they were a customer at all, they probably had a clue. These days, it seems giving a customer anything more user-servicable than an iPad is just asking for trouble... pgpf9a7b_Sz0D.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Friday Hosing
On Wed, 2013-07-17 at 16:36 -0700, Roy wrote: On 7/17/2013 1:59 PM, Alex Harrowell wrote: On 15/07/13 01:09, Tony Patti wrote: TWELVE years ago (press release March 20 2001), Comcast deployed Linux-based Sun Cobalt Qube appliances as CPE with their business-class Internet service, these provided firewall security, web caching, optional content filtering, an e-mail server, a web server, file and print servers. This is a good idea. . Whistle Interjet -- circa 1995 I still have one of the T-Shirts Julian gave somewhere. --Chris
Re: Friday Hosing
Ohh we had some of those at JVNCNet, a real piece of crap. -Jorge On Jul 17, 2013, at 6:56 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 16:36:19 -0700, Roy said: On 7/17/2013 1:59 PM, Alex Harrowell wrote: On 15/07/13 01:09, Tony Patti wrote: TWELVE years ago (press release March 20 2001), Comcast deployed Linux-based Sun Cobalt Qube appliances as CPE with their business-class Internet service, these provided firewall security, web caching, optional content filtering, an e-mail server, a web server, file and print servers. This is a good idea. Whistle Interjet -- circa 1995 Of course, in 1995, if you gave a customer something like that, there was still a reasonably good chance that doing so wouldn't generate a ton of support calls, because if they were a customer at all, they probably had a clue. These days, it seems giving a customer anything more user-servicable than an iPad is just asking for trouble...
RE: Friday Hosing
Ohh we had some of those at JVNCNet, a real piece of crap. Wow. JVNCnet. Haven't heard that name in a long, long time.
Re: Friday Hosing
* Alex Rubenstein (a...@corp.nac.net) wrote: Ohh we had some of those at JVNCNet, a real piece of crap. Wow. JVNCnet. Haven't heard that name in a long, long time. RIP Sir Alec Guinness. Stephen signature.asc Description: Digital signature
Re: Friday Hosing
* Alex Rubenstein (a...@corp.nac.net) wrote: Ohh we had some of those at JVNCNet, a real piece of crap. Wow. JVNCnet. Haven't heard that name in a long, long time. Same here. I worked there from September 1987 through the closure in june of 1990. Whatever happened to Sergio Heker? RIP Sir Alec Guinness. Stephen
Re: Friday Hosing
On Jul 12, 2013, at 19:22 , Nick Khamis sym...@gmail.com wrote: Set up your own email server, host your own web pages, maintain your own cloud, breath your own oxygen FTW. That's simply not realistic for many companies and essentially all people (to a first approximation). -- TTFN, patrick
Re: Friday Hosing
To add to that, I think the interesting point was brought up earlier anyways -- this doesn't stop midstream intercepts from catching traffic in transmission. You can have a secure endpoint, but if the email has to traverse, it's open to being sniffed. --Original Message-- From: Patrick W. Gilmore To: NANOG list Subject: Re: Friday Hosing Sent: Jul 14, 2013 6:22 PM On Jul 12, 2013, at 19:22 , Nick Khamis sym...@gmail.com wrote: Set up your own email server, host your own web pages, maintain your own cloud, breath your own oxygen FTW. That's simply not realistic for many companies and essentially all people (to a first approximation). -- TTFN, patrick Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry
RE: Friday Hosing
I think it is (could be) (should be) realistic for many/most businesses. TWELVE years ago (press release March 20 2001), Comcast deployed Linux-based Sun Cobalt Qube appliances as CPE with their business-class Internet service, these provided firewall security, web caching, optional content filtering, an e-mail server, a web server, file and print servers. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/comcast-business-communications-hits -a-home-run-with-detroits-comerica-park-71752402.html You could argue that (a) it was not your own server, even though it was CPE, or (b) Comcast did not continue to offer these appliances (i.e. that Sun cancelled the product line), but my point is that it was provided within the economics of the Internet Services being purchased, i.e. not cost-prohibitive. Tony Patti CIO S. Walter Packaging Corp. -Original Message- From: Patrick W. Gilmore [mailto:patr...@ianai.net] Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 6:23 PM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: Friday Hosing On Jul 12, 2013, at 19:22 , Nick Khamis sym...@gmail.com wrote: Set up your own email server, host your own web pages, maintain your own cloud, breath your own oxygen FTW. That's simply not realistic for many companies and essentially all people (to a first approximation). -- TTFN, patrick
Re: Friday Hosing
I could support any of these services myself, and have guys that work me that can as well, but none of these are my core business, and my investors REALLY prefer me focusing on my core business, I suspect most of us have shareholders, investors, owners that feel the same way. I struggled with idea of not running my own boxes for services, but in the end decided that the trade of various gov't reading my boring office mail was the right choice for my business. -jim On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Tony Patti t...@swalter.com wrote: I think it is (could be) (should be) realistic for many/most businesses. TWELVE years ago (press release March 20 2001), Comcast deployed Linux-based Sun Cobalt Qube appliances as CPE with their business-class Internet service, these provided firewall security, web caching, optional content filtering, an e-mail server, a web server, file and print servers. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/comcast-business-communications-hits -a-home-run-with-detroits-comerica-park-71752402.html You could argue that (a) it was not your own server, even though it was CPE, or (b) Comcast did not continue to offer these appliances (i.e. that Sun cancelled the product line), but my point is that it was provided within the economics of the Internet Services being purchased, i.e. not cost-prohibitive. Tony Patti CIO S. Walter Packaging Corp. -Original Message- From: Patrick W. Gilmore [mailto:patr...@ianai.net] Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 6:23 PM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: Friday Hosing On Jul 12, 2013, at 19:22 , Nick Khamis sym...@gmail.com wrote: Set up your own email server, host your own web pages, maintain your own cloud, breath your own oxygen FTW. That's simply not realistic for many companies and essentially all people (to a first approximation). -- TTFN, patrick
RE: Friday Hosing
Jim, thanks, certainly understand business priorities. But Patrick's statement was that a business having its own server was simply not realistic, which I took to be along the dimensions of economically unrealistic or technically unrealistic. In a world of kids growing up with Raspberry Pi's (i.e. their own server to login as root), learning HTML in High School (if not earlier), is it only lack of interest which keeps businesses from having their own server? Is it realistic for companies to have an appliance which can provide email and web? Tony Patti CIO S. Walter Packaging Corp. From: jim deleskie [mailto:deles...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 8:44 PM To: Tony Patti Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: Friday Hosing I could support any of these services myself, and have guys that work me that can as well, but none of these are my core business, and my investors REALLY prefer me focusing on my core business, I suspect most of us have shareholders, investors, owners that feel the same way. I struggled with idea of not running my own boxes for services, but in the end decided that the trade of various gov't reading my boring office mail was the right choice for my business. -jim On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 9:09 PM, Tony Patti t...@swalter.com wrote: I think it is (could be) (should be) realistic for many/most businesses. TWELVE years ago (press release March 20 2001), Comcast deployed Linux-based Sun Cobalt Qube appliances as CPE with their business-class Internet service, these provided firewall security, web caching, optional content filtering, an e-mail server, a web server, file and print servers. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/comcast-business-communications-hits http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/comcast-business-communications-hit s-a-home-run-with-detroits-comerica-park-71752402.html -a-home-run-with-detroits-comerica-park-71752402.html You could argue that (a) it was not your own server, even though it was CPE, or (b) Comcast did not continue to offer these appliances (i.e. that Sun cancelled the product line), but my point is that it was provided within the economics of the Internet Services being purchased, i.e. not cost-prohibitive. Tony Patti CIO S. Walter Packaging Corp. -Original Message- From: Patrick W. Gilmore [mailto:patr...@ianai.net] Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 6:23 PM To: NANOG list Subject: Re: Friday Hosing On Jul 12, 2013, at 19:22 , Nick Khamis sym...@gmail.com wrote: Set up your own email server, host your own web pages, maintain your own cloud, breath your own oxygen FTW. That's simply not realistic for many companies and essentially all people (to a first approximation). -- TTFN, patrick
Re: Friday Hosing
On 7/12/13, Jean-Francois Mezei jfmezei_na...@vaxination.ca wrote: On 13-07-12 11:44, Alain Hebert wrote: 1- You call to make cancellation on date X. Speak to person 1. 2- Wait 20 minutes In a theoretical ideal world, that would probably work fine, but a request for Shut off service effective the 15th is just asking for trouble; with many large providers, making a request like that is very likely to be misinterpreted or result in unintended early shutoff. Some providers, even if they understand the request, may choose not to entertain a request more complicated than Cancel immediately; they may agree to cancel at date X, then things get terminated immediately, and their terms of service probably contains a rule that the provider may end service at their discretion, without noticewith the payment for the rest of the same subscription term following date X still being due. Their account terms also probably specify required binding arbitration, and liability limited to hosting fees, and the subscription cost -- a few dollars to be recovered for a few days extra downtime is not likely to exceed the filing fees that would be required for any sort of court actions. If the domain contains critical resources, you have new hosting setup, before you even think about cancelling old hosting. You make sure the DNS servers point to reliable name service provider(s) who will continue to provide DNS hosting, and you make sure the domain registration is under your full control with full access to all settings, and no provider listed as Admin contact.. Best practice would be Only after you secured all those things and updated A records to point to new hosting provider, should the original provider be contacted with a request to cancel the web hosting or particular service cancelled. This is a case of: pay significantly more (multiple providers a short time) in order to greatly reduce risk whereas, asking a provider to cancel at date X, and avoiding overlap --- significantly reduces cost while greatly increasing risk of a 24-48 hour outage. 3- Call again, speak to person 2, confirm your services will be cancelled on date X and that you have already paid for services until then. (or that an invoice has already been produced or will be produced.) -- -JH
RE: Friday Hosing
I work for a telco and have seen customers double up on circuits. Why do you think even the largest carriers don't send in a disconnect order for a customer circuit until the replacement circuit is in place and working? Because they've learned the hard way, too. Frank -Original Message- From: Jimmy Hess [mailto:mysi...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 4:09 AM To: Jean-Francois Mezei Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Friday Hosing On 7/12/13, Jean-Francois Mezei jfmezei_na...@vaxination.ca wrote: On 13-07-12 11:44, Alain Hebert wrote: 1- You call to make cancellation on date X. Speak to person 1. 2- Wait 20 minutes In a theoretical ideal world, that would probably work fine, but a request for Shut off service effective the 15th is just asking for trouble; with many large providers, making a request like that is very likely to be misinterpreted or result in unintended early shutoff. Some providers, even if they understand the request, may choose not to entertain a request more complicated than Cancel immediately; they may agree to cancel at date X, then things get terminated immediately, and their terms of service probably contains a rule that the provider may end service at their discretion, without noticewith the payment for the rest of the same subscription term following date X still being due. Their account terms also probably specify required binding arbitration, and liability limited to hosting fees, and the subscription cost -- a few dollars to be recovered for a few days extra downtime is not likely to exceed the filing fees that would be required for any sort of court actions. If the domain contains critical resources, you have new hosting setup, before you even think about cancelling old hosting. You make sure the DNS servers point to reliable name service provider(s) who will continue to provide DNS hosting, and you make sure the domain registration is under your full control with full access to all settings, and no provider listed as Admin contact.. Best practice would be Only after you secured all those things and updated A records to point to new hosting provider, should the original provider be contacted with a request to cancel the web hosting or particular service cancelled. This is a case of: pay significantly more (multiple providers a short time) in order to greatly reduce risk whereas, asking a provider to cancel at date X, and avoiding overlap --- significantly reduces cost while greatly increasing risk of a 24-48 hour outage. 3- Call again, speak to person 2, confirm your services will be cancelled on date X and that you have already paid for services until then. (or that an invoice has already been produced or will be produced.) -- -JH
Re: Friday Hosing
Just finished migration from a provider that I was no longer happy with to a new provider. Fully expecting them to turn me off the moment I said 'cancel', I prepared everything in advance, moved all the pointers over a few days prior to my planned day to tell them to 'shutoff', retrieved a final backup, then used their web billing interface to tell them I wanted to cancel service. Much to my surprise, they actually had a selection for what date do you want to cancel service on. I set it to be the next day. I had no issues, but I do attribute much of this to I migrated services beginning 6 months prior (when I decided I was not going to renew... it was a 2 year contract). Note: Neither provider is local. As mentioned by others, it is your responsibility to maintain continuity of service when you move between providers. The best way I know to ensure this is to maintain control. Make sure your new system is up and configured before discontinuing your old system. - Eric
Re: Friday Hosing
On 7/13/13, Eric Adler eapt...@gmail.com wrote: Yes. Maintain control. If you want to avoid the cost of doubling, discuss the risk for the new provider, and ask if they can waive their fee for the period until the old service is cancelled, before agreeing to complete the sale. As mentioned by others, it is your responsibility to maintain continuity of service when you move between providers. The best way I know to ensure this is to maintain control. Make sure your new system is up and configured before discontinuing your old system. - Eric -- -JH
RE: Friday Hosing
The biggest grievance I have is in regards to carriers with automatic contract renewals. Combined with the fact that these carriers either refused to allow month to month billing or will allow it at double / triple current rates, coordinating disconnection of older services while turning up new services with a different carrier in the same time frame can be a real challenge. Adding insult to injury is the fact that one does not simply resolve carrier billing issues - I've had multiple incidents which took almost a year to resolve. I personally think that the automatic renewal of a three year term should be criminal. The same goes for price increases while I'm under a contract rate - Apparently as long as there is a provision in the small print (which is able to be changed at will, due to the small print referencing a document on the carrier's website), be ready to pay more whenever the carrier dictates, regardless of what your contract says. Typing this was somewhat therapeutic. -Original Message- From: Alain Hebert [mailto:aheb...@pubnix.net] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2013 10:45 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Friday Hosing Is it me or the bigger a corporation gets the more vindictive (a b-word intended) they are to customers leaving them? -- One of my *new* customer was caught by the local monopole into moving their domain/site/emails/phone/oxygen supply/etc to them. But when the usual grace period stopped and they started receiving invoices that would make a loan shark go: are you insane?!?, they decided to move. After a somewhat pleasant call to the monopole informing them that they are planning to divorce them in 30 days, and that it was clearly stated that since they are paying for those additional 30 days that their services wont be cut off... 15 minutes later. Boom. No domain, no site, no emails... After a rather stern call, they get their domain up, no site... After another rather stern call, they get their site up, no emails... After another rather stern call, they get... no emails. Oh its 17:01, our support is closed for day. Is there anything else I can help you with? On top of it that monopole has for their procedure to let the 5 days AUTO-ACK expire when they are asked to transfer a domain away from them. ( They are a reseller of tucows, and PS: it is not Tucows fault. That 5 days 'AUTO-ACK process is there because of corporation acting like that monopole ) Good thing I was able to get back into their account earlier this morning and recreate their emails... Now lets hope they don't do this again until my customer get his domain back in its hands. - Alain Hebertaheb...@pubnix.net PubNIX Inc. 50 boul. St-Charles P.O. Box 26770 Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W 6G7 Tel: 514-990-5911 http://www.pubnix.netFax: 514-990-9443
Re: Friday Hosing
- Original Message - From: Alain Hebert aheb...@pubnix.net Is it me or the bigger a corporation gets the more vindictive (a b-word intended) they are to customers leaving them? [ long saga elided ] And now you know why it's standard operating procedure: *Never* tell the losing service provider they're losing *until you've actually done the cutover*. If that costs you some money, well, at least you didn't go off the air. Responsibility for you not going off the air rests, finally, with you. Your clients don't care if you later win the lawsuit. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
Re: Friday Hosing
On Fri, 12 Jul 2013, Alain Hebert wrote: Is it me or the bigger a corporation gets the more vindictive (a b-word intended) they are to customers leaving them? Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. Hopefully this isn't one of mine, but I've seen this happen in our billing/sales, regardless.
Re: Friday Hosing
Composed on a virtual keyboard, please forgive typos. On Jul 12, 2013, at 13:25, na...@namor.ca wrote: On Fri, 12 Jul 2013, Alain Hebert wrote: Is it me or the bigger a corporation gets the more vindictive (a b-word intended) they are to customers leaving them? Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. I prefer Heinlein's version: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity, but don't rule out malice. And, of course the corollary that any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice. Put another way, whether it was stupid or evil, the results are the same. Turning off a customer in good standing is actionable in court, and should be avoided by legitimate businesses at nearly all costs. Not correcting the error (should it happen) when notified goes from oops to evil, whether intentional or not. And yes, I've probably worked for a corporation that has done this at least once over the years. (I did work for a telco for a while. :-) Doesn't mean I can't think it was evil of us and work to stop it from ever happening again. -- TTFN, patrick
Re: Friday Hosing
On 7/12/13 1:39 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: Put another way, whether it was stupid or evil, the results are the same. Turning off a customer in good standing is actionable in court, and should be avoided by legitimate businesses at nearly all costs. You can void a contract at any time so long as you're willing to accept the result. I've seen people have their service cut off and a carrier keep their equipment. Sure they will get it back, but is it worth spending 100k fighting them in court for three years? -- Bryan Fields 727-409-1194 - Voice 727-214-2508 - Fax http://bryanfields.net
Re: Friday Hosing
On Jul 12, 2013, at 13:44 , Bryan Fields br...@bryanfields.net wrote: On 7/12/13 1:39 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: Put another way, whether it was stupid or evil, the results are the same. Turning off a customer in good standing is actionable in court, and should be avoided by legitimate businesses at nearly all costs. You can void a contract at any time so long as you're willing to accept the result. Hence the actionable in court phrase. I've seen people have their service cut off and a carrier keep their equipment. Sure they will get it back, but is it worth spending 100k fighting them in court for three years? Every business makes tough decisions. For instance, judging the risk/reward ratio of getting, for instance, loss of use fees, legal fees, etc., out of an opponent in a court case. Either way, I'm interested in hearing when a company does these bad things so I can add that into the decision when considering that company. (To be clear, one person saying they cut me off without warning does not automatically mean I would never do business with a company. There's always another side. But I still like to collect the info when possible.) In this case, the OP didn't mention which company it was, other than monopole. -- TTFN, patrick
Re: Friday Hosing
On 13-07-12 11:44, Alain Hebert wrote: After a somewhat pleasant call to the monopole informing them that they are planning to divorce them in 30 days, and that it was clearly stated that since they are paying for those additional 30 days that their services wont be cut off... 1- You call to make cancellation on date X. Speak to person 1. 2- Wait 20 minutes 3- Call again, speak to person 2, confirm your services will be cancelled on date X and that you have already paid for services until then. (or that an invoice has already been produced or will be produced.) I am not one to defend the big bad incumbents. But consider you are calling on the day before new billing cycle begins. The agent may have flagged your account to to close at end of current billing cycle thinking it would be about a month from now. But it happens to be only a few hours from now. You should also note that big bad incumbents have bad reputation of requiring one extra month payment before they allow you to leave them. So the agent may have been nice in waiving that requirement and allowed you to leave earlier, saving you a month's worth of billing. (and not realising the troubles it will cause a business when service is cut before the date specified by customer)
Re: Friday Hosing
On 07/12/13 13:54, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: On Jul 12, 2013, at 13:44 , Bryan Fields br...@bryanfields.net wrote: On 7/12/13 1:39 PM, Patrick W. Gilmore wrote: Put another way, whether it was stupid or evil, the results are the same. Turning off a customer in good standing is actionable in court, and should be avoided by legitimate businesses at nearly all costs. You can void a contract at any time so long as you're willing to accept the result. Hence the actionable in court phrase. I've seen people have their service cut off and a carrier keep their equipment. Sure they will get it back, but is it worth spending 100k fighting them in court for three years? Every business makes tough decisions. For instance, judging the risk/reward ratio of getting, for instance, loss of use fees, legal fees, etc., out of an opponent in a court case. Either way, I'm interested in hearing when a company does these bad things so I can add that into the decision when considering that company. (To be clear, one person saying they cut me off without warning does not automatically mean I would never do business with a company. There's always another side. But I still like to collect the info when possible.) In this case, the OP didn't mention which company it was, other than monopole. Well monopole (or in good english monopoly) ... I left their name out on purpose. There is no point into shaming them. I was more interested how prevalent it was in other markets. As this being in Canada... They can easily bury any legal action in suits for centuries =D - Alain Hebertaheb...@pubnix.net PubNIX Inc. 50 boul. St-Charles P.O. Box 26770 Beaconsfield, Quebec H9W 6G7 Tel: 514-990-5911 http://www.pubnix.netFax: 514-990-9443
Re: Friday Hosing
Set up your own email server, host your own web pages, maintain your own cloud, breath your own oxygen FTW. N.
