RE: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
Note the EATON Press release. Maybe the burn on the bench is the way they get to the California energy reduction Standards? If it isn't working it isn't using power. Date: 23 October 2012 Latest Eaton Thought Leadership White Paper Provides Technical Analysis of Eaton's Energy Saver System Eaton today announced the release of its latest white paper, Understanding Eaton Energy Saver System. In the paper, George Navarro, an Eaton technical solutions engineering specialist, explains how Eaton's Energy Saver System (ESS) enables large uninterruptible power systems (UPSs) to operate at up to 99 percent efficiency without sacrificing reliability. Though ESS is rapidly gaining support in the UPS industry for its ability to build on the strengths of traditional double-conversion architectures, many consultants and end users have questions about how ESS works and what enables it to lower power consumption while maintaining high levels of availability. In the paper, Navarro answers these questions by providing in-depth technical information about ESS's architecture, reliability characteristics, computational infrastructure and surge suppression attributes. Ralph Brandt -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen [mailto:se...@rollernet.us] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:59 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback Does anyone use Eaton 9130 series UPS for anything? I'm curious how they've worked out for you. I bought a 700VA model to give it a whirl versus the traditional APC since the Eaton is an online type with static bypass and also does some high efficiency thing where it normally stays on bypass, but the first thing it did on the bench was have the inverter/rectifier or bypass section catch on fire and destroy itself. ~Seth
RE: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
Yeah, that's about right. When I had one fail that was not set in power saver mode, it just shut off intermittently before letting out the genie. When I had one go out while it was in energy saver mode, it continued to operate but put out a weak ~80Vrms with heavy distortion that caused equipment damage. Foul. Also in regards to OutBack - the Radian GS8048 is beautiful. I'd highly recommend it. It is basically two inverter/charger modules paralleled in one chassis, each being 4Kw. I was playing with one and yoinked the control cable to one module -- the power stayed on without incident and the MATE3 control unit (which is fun and Ethernet equipped) reported the error. If you use the 8048 in half capacity it's redundant. It gives 120/240 (l1, neutral, l2) out of the box and is pure sine. I recommend getting the matching GS load center with it because it makes the install super easy and includes the requisite breakers. Tom Morris, KG4CYX Chairman, South Florida Tropical Hamboree Mad Scientist, Miami Children's Museum This message sent from a mobile device. Silly typos provided free of charge. On Nov 15, 2012 9:29 AM, Brandt, Ralph ralph.bra...@pateam.com wrote: Note the EATON Press release. Maybe the burn on the bench is the way they get to the California energy reduction Standards? If it isn't working it isn't using power. Date: 23 October 2012 Latest Eaton Thought Leadership White Paper Provides Technical Analysis of Eaton's Energy Saver System Eaton today announced the release of its latest white paper, Understanding Eaton Energy Saver System. In the paper, George Navarro, an Eaton technical solutions engineering specialist, explains how Eaton's Energy Saver System (ESS) enables large uninterruptible power systems (UPSs) to operate at up to 99 percent efficiency without sacrificing reliability. Though ESS is rapidly gaining support in the UPS industry for its ability to build on the strengths of traditional double-conversion architectures, many consultants and end users have questions about how ESS works and what enables it to lower power consumption while maintaining high levels of availability. In the paper, Navarro answers these questions by providing in-depth technical information about ESS's architecture, reliability characteristics, computational infrastructure and surge suppression attributes. Ralph Brandt -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen [mailto:se...@rollernet.us] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 2:59 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback Does anyone use Eaton 9130 series UPS for anything? I'm curious how they've worked out for you. I bought a 700VA model to give it a whirl versus the traditional APC since the Eaton is an online type with static bypass and also does some high efficiency thing where it normally stays on bypass, but the first thing it did on the bench was have the inverter/rectifier or bypass section catch on fire and destroy itself. ~Seth
RE: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
I've had issues and experience with many types of UPSes, including HP (probably OEM'd from someone else), APC, EATON/Powerware, and Liebert/Emerson. I keep coming back to APC. Solid units, and are always slightly 'ahead' in technology. Sure, I've seen each model have failures and even faults (big boom style), but APC provides a solid product and supports their customers the best if you ask me. That being said, a very close second choice would be EATON/Powerware. - Erik -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen [mailto:se...@rollernet.us] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:59 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback Does anyone use Eaton 9130 series UPS for anything? I'm curious how they've worked out for you. I bought a 700VA model to give it a whirl versus the traditional APC since the Eaton is an online type with static bypass and also does some high efficiency thing where it normally stays on bypass, but the first thing it did on the bench was have the inverter/rectifier or bypass section catch on fire and destroy itself. ~Seth
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
Are these UPS units going inside the racks? Would it not be better to do something in the power room with an inverter on the circuits that feed the racks, such as a large Outback unit with sufficient battery capacity? http://www.amazon.com/OutBack-Inverter-3600-Watts-Volt/dp/B002MWAAYU With one device acting as your UPS you'd have only one point of failure (that may be a plus or minus), only one set of batteries to worry about, and those inverters are very well made. They have 120v and 240v units. There are other brands you could use but my experience with various brands is that Outback is the best in their class. Greg On Wed, Nov 14, 2012 at 8:38 AM, Erik Amundson erik.amund...@oati.netwrote: I've had issues and experience with many types of UPSes, including HP (probably OEM'd from someone else), APC, EATON/Powerware, and Liebert/Emerson. I keep coming back to APC. Solid units, and are always slightly 'ahead' in technology. Sure, I've seen each model have failures and even faults (big boom style), but APC provides a solid product and supports their customers the best if you ask me. That being said, a very close second choice would be EATON/Powerware. - Erik -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen [mailto:se...@rollernet.us] Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 1:59 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback Does anyone use Eaton 9130 series UPS for anything? I'm curious how they've worked out for you. I bought a 700VA model to give it a whirl versus the traditional APC since the Eaton is an online type with static bypass and also does some high efficiency thing where it normally stays on bypass, but the first thing it did on the bench was have the inverter/rectifier or bypass section catch on fire and destroy itself. ~Seth
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
At 02:59 PM 11/13/2012, Seth Mattinen wrote: Does anyone use Eaton 9130 series UPS for anything? I'm curious how they've worked out for you. I bought a 700VA model to give it a whirl versus the traditional APC since the Eaton is an online type with static bypass and also does some high efficiency thing where it normally stays on bypass, but the first thing it did on the bench was have the inverter/rectifier or bypass section catch on fire and destroy itself. My basic rule is that if the first one I buy catches fire, I don't buy any more. Berry
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:59:18AM -0800, Seth Mattinen wrote: Does anyone use Eaton 9130 series UPS for anything? I'm curious how they've worked out for you. I bought a 700VA model to give it a whirl versus the traditional APC since the Eaton is an online type with static bypass and also does some high efficiency thing where it normally stays on bypass, but the first thing it did on the bench was have the inverter/rectifier or bypass section catch on fire and destroy itself. Was this the 2U rackmount form factor, or the tower? Either way, I hope that you will pursue this with APC tech support. That's a pricey piece of gear, and it shouldn't toast itself at any time. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mi...@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
As a side note, how do you call a UPS online if it stays on bypass most of the time, and throws out of bypass to go to battery? On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Mike A mi...@mikea.ath.cx wrote: On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:59:18AM -0800, Seth Mattinen wrote: Does anyone use Eaton 9130 series UPS for anything? I'm curious how they've worked out for you. I bought a 700VA model to give it a whirl versus the traditional APC since the Eaton is an online type with static bypass and also does some high efficiency thing where it normally stays on bypass, but the first thing it did on the bench was have the inverter/rectifier or bypass section catch on fire and destroy itself. Was this the 2U rackmount form factor, or the tower? Either way, I hope that you will pursue this with APC tech support. That's a pricey piece of gear, and it shouldn't toast itself at any time. -- Mike Andrews, W5EGO mi...@mikea.ath.cx Tired old sysadmin
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
From: Blake Dunlap iki...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:20:35 -0600 _ On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Mike A mi...@mikea.ath.cx wrote: On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:59:18AM -0800, Seth Mattinen wrote: Does anyone use Eaton 9130 series UPS for anything? I'm curious how they've worked out for you. I bought a 700VA model to give it a whirl versus the traditional APC since the Eaton is an online type with static bypass and also does some high efficiency thing where it normally stays on bypass, but the first thing it did on the bench was have the inverter/rectifier or bypass section catch on fire and destroy itself. Was this the 2U rackmount form factor, or the tower? Either way, I hope that you will pursue this with APC tech support. That's a pricey piece of gear, and it shouldn't toast itself at any time. As a side note, how do you call a UPS online if it stays on bypass most of the time, and throws out of bypass to go to battery? Reading the specs, it _is_ 'true online' normally, has a bypass mode if internal failure detected, or manually commanded. UPS totally disabled in bypass -- if utility power fails while on bypass, downstream devices lose power. In bypass, device provides 'passive' filtering of utility power ONLY.
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
Hi Seth, A previous employer we looked at a few UPS. We used Emerson GXT2/3 3Kva UPSs and they worked a treat. We also tried the Eaton 9130 and we never had any problems with them, but the SNMP monitoring was only good for telling you if there was a problem, not what the problem was. So we eventually went back to the Emersons. On 14/11/2012, at 8:59 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote: Does anyone use Eaton 9130 series UPS for anything? I'm curious how they've worked out for you. I bought a 700VA model to give it a whirl versus the traditional APC since the Eaton is an online type with static bypass and also does some high efficiency thing where it normally stays on bypass, but the first thing it did on the bench was have the inverter/rectifier or bypass section catch on fire and destroy itself. ~Seth -- Daniel
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 1:52 PM, Robert Bonomi bon...@mail.r-bonomi.com wrote: From: Blake Dunlap iki...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2012 15:20:35 -0600 _ On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 2:27 PM, Mike A mi...@mikea.ath.cx wrote: On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 11:59:18AM -0800, Seth Mattinen wrote: Does anyone use Eaton 9130 series UPS for anything? I'm curious how they've worked out for you. I bought a 700VA model to give it a whirl versus the traditional APC since the Eaton is an online type with static bypass and also does some high efficiency thing where it normally stays on bypass, but the first thing it did on the bench was have the inverter/rectifier or bypass section catch on fire and destroy itself. Was this the 2U rackmount form factor, or the tower? Either way, I hope that you will pursue this with APC tech support. That's a pricey piece of gear, and it shouldn't toast itself at any time. As a side note, how do you call a UPS online if it stays on bypass most of the time, and throws out of bypass to go to battery? Reading the specs, it _is_ 'true online' normally, has a bypass mode if internal failure detected, or manually commanded. UPS totally disabled in bypass -- if utility power fails while on bypass, downstream devices lose power. In bypass, device provides 'passive' filtering of utility power ONLY. Reading the users manual... pp 33, Setting Power Strategy, it indicates that normal operation is true online (as above) and that you can change it to high efficiency mode, which is not online per se (default bypass, 10 ms cutover if it detects a fail or spike). So it has 3 modes; default/normal (online), high efficiency (bypass w/cutback), and partially failed (bypass only, UPS functions disabled). -- -george william herbert george.herb...@gmail.com
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
On 11/13/12 1:20 PM, Blake Dunlap wrote: As a side note, how do you call a UPS online if it stays on bypass most of the time, and throws out of bypass to go to battery? It's a selectable feature. I was probably going to set it to true online mode, but play with the other mode for curiosity's sake. ~Seth
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
On Tuesday 13 November 2012 12:59, Seth Mattinen wrote: Does anyone use Eaton 9130 series UPS for anything? I'm curious how they've worked out for you. I bought a 700VA model to give it a whirl versus the traditional APC since the Eaton is an online type with static bypass and also does some high efficiency thing where it normally stays on bypass, but the first thing it did on the bench was have the inverter/rectifier or bypass section catch on fire and destroy itself. ~Seth We have several 5130 and 9125 models (2kVA rackmount), never given us a problem in years of service... Well, one network management card that lost its mind, reset the configuration and went on with life, but the UPS just chugged along. Biggest plus has been that they don't cook their batteries like APCs do. Adrian
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
Sorry to say, I've used them and had them eat themselves. They just die mysteriously and let out lots of smoke when they do. When they do, however, they leave behind a perfectly good set of batteries. I'd recommend looking elsewhere... Does Eaton/PowerWare still make the FerrUPS series? Those were *solid*. On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Adrian chopr...@dakotacom.net wrote: On Tuesday 13 November 2012 12:59, Seth Mattinen wrote: Does anyone use Eaton 9130 series UPS for anything? I'm curious how they've worked out for you. I bought a 700VA model to give it a whirl versus the traditional APC since the Eaton is an online type with static bypass and also does some high efficiency thing where it normally stays on bypass, but the first thing it did on the bench was have the inverter/rectifier or bypass section catch on fire and destroy itself. ~Seth We have several 5130 and 9125 models (2kVA rackmount), never given us a problem in years of service... Well, one network management card that lost its mind, reset the configuration and went on with life, but the UPS just chugged along. Biggest plus has been that they don't cook their batteries like APCs do. Adrian -- -- Tom Morris, KG4CYX Mad Scientist For Hire Chairman, South Florida Tropical Hamboree / Miami Hamfest Engineer, WRGP Radiate FM, Florida International University 786-228-7087 151.820 Megacycles
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
Adrian wrote: We have several 5130 and 9125 models (2kVA rackmount), never given us a problem in years of service... Well, one network management card that lost its mind, reset the configuration and went on with life, but the UPS just chugged along. Biggest plus has been that they don't cook their batteries like APCs do. Adrian Now *that's* good to know...thanks!
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
We have quite alot of Eaton UPS's in our network, all sorts of models. There have been no problems from what I've seen, except when you add water from a broken pipe or bad roof. We've had the once in a blue moon management card reset as Adrian said but it didn't interrupt our equipment. On 11/14/2012 2:04 AM, Michael Painter wrote: Adrian wrote: We have several 5130 and 9125 models (2kVA rackmount), never given us a problem in years of service... Well, one network management card that lost its mind, reset the configuration and went on with life, but the UPS just chugged along. Biggest plus has been that they don't cook their batteries like APCs do. Adrian Now *that's* good to know...thanks!
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
Alex wrote: We have quite alot of Eaton UPS's in our network, all sorts of models. There have been no problems from what I've seen, except when you add water from a broken pipe or bad roof. We've had the once in a blue moon management card reset as Adrian said but it didn't interrupt our equipment. Thanks! I've been very disappointed with APC. I had a customer spend thousands on replacement batteries/freight for a Matrix 5000 only to have a $5 cooling fan crap out and no way to get a replacement.sigh
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
On 11/13/2012 6:42 PM, Tom Morris wrote: Sorry to say, I've used them and had them eat themselves. They just die mysteriously and let out lots of smoke when they do. When they do, however, they leave behind a perfectly good set of batteries. I'd recommend looking elsewhere... Does Eaton/PowerWare still make the FerrUPS series? Those were *solid*. Interesting. So far the feedback sounds overwhelmingly negative. Heard some good points on Emerson (I'm assuming Liebert?). We've had much better luck overall with them, although a couple of incidents where they don't care to come back online after they were drained. We largely use the UPS to survive power glitches without dropping the network for switch reboot times, we're not after long runs. As such, the occasional extended outages drain the UPS'es and there are always the percentage of them that do not come back online and require manual intervention. We were formerly a big TrippLite user, but they seem to be incredibly fault-intolerant with regard to the scenario above (coming back online after draining), and to a lesser degree, going offline after a power glitch. Never used an Eaton that I'm aware of however. Would be interested in other recommendations for remote / IDF / MDF environment UPS systems to just keep the stack up over power glitches. Jeff
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
Just go -48vdc. None of these pesky UPS problems :) Unfortunately there's a serious lack of PoE switches that are -48. On Nov 13, 2012 8:51 PM, Jeff Kell jeff-k...@utc.edu wrote: On 11/13/2012 6:42 PM, Tom Morris wrote: Sorry to say, I've used them and had them eat themselves. They just die mysteriously and let out lots of smoke when they do. When they do, however, they leave behind a perfectly good set of batteries. I'd recommend looking elsewhere... Does Eaton/PowerWare still make the FerrUPS series? Those were *solid*. Interesting. So far the feedback sounds overwhelmingly negative. Heard some good points on Emerson (I'm assuming Liebert?). We've had much better luck overall with them, although a couple of incidents where they don't care to come back online after they were drained. We largely use the UPS to survive power glitches without dropping the network for switch reboot times, we're not after long runs. As such, the occasional extended outages drain the UPS'es and there are always the percentage of them that do not come back online and require manual intervention. We were formerly a big TrippLite user, but they seem to be incredibly fault-intolerant with regard to the scenario above (coming back online after draining), and to a lesser degree, going offline after a power glitch. Never used an Eaton that I'm aware of however. Would be interested in other recommendations for remote / IDF / MDF environment UPS systems to just keep the stack up over power glitches. Jeff
Re: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
On 11/13/12 6:49 PM, Jeff Kell wrote: On 11/13/2012 6:42 PM, Tom Morris wrote: Sorry to say, I've used them and had them eat themselves. They just die mysteriously and let out lots of smoke when they do. When they do, however, they leave behind a perfectly good set of batteries. I'd recommend looking elsewhere... Does Eaton/PowerWare still make the FerrUPS series? Those were *solid*. Interesting. So far the feedback sounds overwhelmingly negative. Heard some good points on Emerson (I'm assuming Liebert?). We've had much better luck overall with them, although a couple of incidents where they don't care to come back online after they were drained. We largely use the UPS to survive power glitches without dropping the network for switch reboot times, we're not after long runs. As such, the occasional extended outages drain the UPS'es and there are always the percentage of them that do not come back online and require manual intervention. We were formerly a big TrippLite user, but they seem to be incredibly fault-intolerant with regard to the scenario above (coming back online after draining), and to a lesser degree, going offline after a power glitch. Never used an Eaton that I'm aware of however. Would be interested in other recommendations for remote / IDF / MDF environment UPS systems to just keep the stack up over power glitches. I do have much larger Eaton units like the 9355 that haven't given me anything to complain about yet. But they're of a wholly different classes and I don't really expect one to represent the other. The 9130 that exploded was my first foray into their smaller side, destined to be a telco room aux unit and replace an APC SmartUPS. ~Seth
RE: Eaton 9130 UPS feedback
Just go -48vdc. None of these pesky UPS problems :) Well, you still have 1/2 the UPS - the inverter section. It's not a silver bullet.
