Re: is CERNET part of the Internet?
Most networks have some sort of firewall (hopefully...) Isn't CERNET kind of similar to Internet2/NLR? Members own their network Free to join Serve education&research community Members encourage their users to use "the free network" instead of public network when possible Please correct me if I am wrong. Yang On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 5:23 AM, Eugen Leitl wrote: > > I'm trying to figure out whether CERNET > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERNET > is part of the official Internet, or is behind the Great Firewall where > access to invididual networks on the public Internet must be explicitly > granted. Anyone in the know? > >
Re: is CERNET part of the Internet?
On 9/27/12 9:24 AM, ku po wrote: > CERNET policy is FREE of charge for it's members, as long as the traffic is > in their 'FREE networks' eg most of IP Blocks in China and some > Universities in the world. > However, outbound traffic to Non-free networks eg most blocks outside China > will be charged. In 2001 I'd the pleasure of working with CNNIC in the IETF technical and ICANN policy areas. At the time a bug in the UTF8 processing in the then-prevelant version of IE yeilded packet sequences originating from the edge device, on a IP block in the PRC (and elsewhere resolution was attempted of labels in the Han Script input into in the IE navigation field) to IP addresses allocated to Microsoft, to IP addresses allocated to an "IDN Solutions Vendor" in Silicon Valley, and to IP addresses allocated to Verisign Registry. As there were a non-trivial number of instances of IE with this bug operating in the PRC in 2001, the aggregate of these several packets per string per IE instance had a non-trivial overseas bandwidth cost -- settled at the time in hard currency, USD -- a scarce resource at the time. I suggest that (a) substituting whatever one has as "the definition" of "the Internet" for settlement free peering is suspect, and (b) the cost of overseas bandwidth in the PRC is still non-negligible, and (c) the cost, when amortized over cache instances, may be less than the cost of cost recovery, and offered as "free", and (d) the cost of uncacheable traffic cannot be so amortized, and (e) while USD are not a scarce resource in the PRC at present, settlements may still be made in currency other then RMB. Eric
Re: is CERNET part of the Internet?
- Original Message - > From: "Stephane Bortzmeyer" > Eugen Leitl wrote > a message of 5 lines which said: > > > the official Internet > > I wasn't aware there is an official Internet. Where is it? "The largest equivalence class in the reflexive transitive symmetric closure of the relationship 'can be reached by an IP packet from'" -- Seth Breidbart. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth & Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
Re: is CERNET part of the Internet?
Well the answer is Yes and No. Content filter is not a reason you can call it non-internet. If you think it is not internet because of content filtering, think again, you have to exclude whole China from Internet. The real problem CERNET is not completely part of Internet is following: CERNET policy is FREE of charge for it's members, as long as the traffic is in their 'FREE networks' eg most of IP Blocks in China and some Universities in the world. However, outbound traffic to Non-free networks eg most blocks outside China will be charged. If you download a webpage from a China University, they are actually going to pay for it for your traffic. So some members tend to choose to block their visibility to 'Non-Free networks'. Of course major Universities won't do that but imagine a high school, they may very possibly do that. That is the main reason CERNET is not completely Internet.
Re: is CERNET part of the Internet?
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 2:33 AM, Jeroen Massar wrote: > Everything in China is behind their content filter. Only parts of Hong > Kong are sometimes not yet. As far as it is known they do not 'allow' > things but block specific things. All* of Hong Kong and Macau are not behind the chinese firewalls. *some hong kong and macau traffic *may* traverse mainland china and hence be firewalled, but the networks themselves operating in these two cities/regions do not have filtering per se.
Re: is CERNET part of the Internet?
Hi, On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 10:33 AM, Jeroen Massar wrote: > On 2012-09-27 11:23 , Eugen Leitl wrote: > > > > I'm trying to figure out whether CERNET > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERNET > > is part of the official Internet, > > There is no 'official Internet', there is a 'view on the Internet'. > > > or is behind the Great Firewall where > > access to invididual networks on the public Internet must be explicitly > > granted. Anyone in the know? > > Everything in China is behind their content filter. Only parts of Hong > Kong are sometimes not yet. As far as it is known they do not 'allow' > things but block specific things. > > I suggest you go through http://freehaven.net/anonbib/ for a good read > about the various things that are known about the thing we call GFW. > > A report was published about net 'freedom' in various countries three days ago that may be worth a read in relation to this topic: http://www.freedomhouse.org/sites/default/files/inline_images/FOTN%202012%20FINAL.pdf Alex
Re: is CERNET part of the Internet?
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Eugen Leitl wrote:
>
> I'm trying to figure out whether CERNET http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERNET
> is part of the official Internet, or is behind the Great Firewall where
> access to invididual networks on the public Internet must be explicitly
> granted. Anyone in the know?
>
Here's one of their many v4 networks from level 3:
BGP routing table entry for 202.38.64.0/18
Paths: (2 available, best #1)
10026 4538 4538 4538 4538, (aggregated by 4538 202.112.60.1)
AS-path translation: { APNIC-AS-3-BLOCK CERNET-BKB CERNET-BKB
CERNET-BKB CERNET-BKB }
edge2.SanJose3 (metric 26107)
Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal, atomic-aggregate, best
Community: North_America Lclprf_100 Level3_Customer
United_States San_Jose 10026:4200 10026:32344 10026:40104
Originator: edge2.SanJose3
10026 4538 4538 4538 4538, (aggregated by 4538 202.112.60.1)
AS-path translation: { APNIC-AS-3-BLOCK CERNET-BKB CERNET-BKB
CERNET-BKB CERNET-BKB }
edge2.SanJose3 (metric 26107)
Origin IGP, localpref 100, valid, internal, atomic-aggregate
Community: North_America Lclprf_100 Level3_Customer
United_States San_Jose 10026:4200 10026:32344 10026:40104
Originator: edge2.SanJose3
Re: is CERNET part of the Internet?
On 2012-09-27 11:23 , Eugen Leitl wrote: > > I'm trying to figure out whether CERNET http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CERNET > is part of the official Internet, There is no 'official Internet', there is a 'view on the Internet'. Note that if you would do an eyeball count the 'official' one would be the Chinese one as there are potentially more people looking at it there... To answer your subject line though: yes CERNET is part of the Internet, they have IP addresses from IANA through their RIR APNIC and their website be reached from most locations on the general thing called the Internet. CERNET is IPv6-only for large portions though and those are not behind the GFW as they do not do IPv6 for that (yet at least as far as it is known). > or is behind the Great Firewall where > access to invididual networks on the public Internet must be explicitly > granted. Anyone in the know? Everything in China is behind their content filter. Only parts of Hong Kong are sometimes not yet. As far as it is known they do not 'allow' things but block specific things. I suggest you go through http://freehaven.net/anonbib/ for a good read about the various things that are known about the thing we call GFW. Greets, Jeroen
Re: is CERNET part of the Internet?
On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 11:23:34AM +0200, Eugen Leitl wrote a message of 5 lines which said: > the official Internet I wasn't aware there is an official Internet. Where is it?
