Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2011-01-21 Thread david raistrick

On Wed, 19 Jan 2011, Wilkinson, Alex wrote:


freebsd + varnish + carp (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/carp.html)


two of the three won't work @ EC2 (for my purposes, no idea about the 
original poster - but he did ask about DNS based solutions so I suspect 
he's in a similar boat)



--
david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html




Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-21 Thread david raistrick

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Jay Reitz wrote:


gdnsd is very robust and fast and has an interface that a networking
engineer won't mind.  It comes with a geolocation plugin with
health-check failover via HTTP.

http://code.google.com/p/gdnsd/



Thanks Jay, that looks like a good option - I like single-focus-software 
for things like this. ;)



--
david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html




Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-19 Thread Joe Greco
 On 01/18/2011 07:42 AM, Sergey Voropaev wrote:
  Does any one know software sollutions (free is preferable) like as cisco GSS
  and F5 BIG-IP? The main point is that DNS-server (or dns server plugin) must
  be able to monitor server availability (for example by TCP connect) and from
  DNS-reply depends on it.
 
  I know that it is possible by BIND with set of script. But we are trying to
  find more usable solution with frendly interface.
 
  Thanks a lot.

 If you want to get fancy you could try an Anycast DNS setup, using GNU's 
 Zebra tool to automatically alter routing tables. 
 http://www.netlinxinc.com/netlinx-blog/45-dns/118-introduction-to-anycast-dns.html

You wouldn't use Zebra; it isn't actively developed anymore and has 
not been updated in many years.  Use Quagga instead, which is the
community-based offshoot.

... JG
-- 
Joe Greco - sol.net Network Services - Milwaukee, WI - http://www.sol.net
We call it the 'one bite at the apple' rule. Give me one chance [and] then I
won't contact you again. - Direct Marketing Ass'n position on e-mail spam(CNN)
With 24 million small businesses in the US alone, that's way too many apples.



Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-19 Thread Joe Abley

On 2011-01-19, at 08:17, Joe Greco wrote:

 You wouldn't use Zebra; it isn't actively developed anymore and has 
 not been updated in many years.  Use Quagga instead, which is the
 community-based offshoot.

I don't think this is what the original post was asking about, but for the sake 
of completeness other alternatives to Zebra/Quagga (when using BGP between 
anycast origin servers and adjacent routers, e.g. with multipath configured on 
the routers) are OpenBGPd and BIRD.

See earlier suggestions for bedtime reading, also: 
http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/msg06970.html.


Joe




Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-19 Thread InterNetX - Jürgen Gotteswinter

Am 19.01.11 01:01, schrieb david raistrick:



On 01/18/2011 09:42 AM, Sergey Voropaev wrote:

Does any one know software sollutions (free is preferable) like as
cisco GSS
and F5 BIG-IP? The main point is that DNS-server (or dns server
plugin) must
be able to monitor server availability (for example by TCP connect)
and from
DNS-reply depends on it.



On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Charles N Wyble wrote:


Ha-proxy and linux virtual server are popular packages.


Neither of these do DNS. He asked about DNS based loadbalancing (also
known as GSLB, among other things) software packages



haproxy doesnt,


lvs works for dns very well, take a look at keepalived 
(www.keepalived.org). it supports lvs + vrrp.





--
david raistrick http://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html








Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread Sergey Voropaev
Does any one know software sollutions (free is preferable) like as cisco GSS
and F5 BIG-IP? The main point is that DNS-server (or dns server plugin) must
be able to monitor server availability (for example by TCP connect) and from
DNS-reply depends on it.

I know that it is possible by BIND with set of script. But we are trying to
find more usable solution with frendly interface.

Thanks a lot.


Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread Jack Bates

On 1/18/2011 11:42 AM, Sergey Voropaev wrote:

I know that it is possible by BIND with set of script. But we are trying to
find more usable solution with frendly interface.



I think powerdns is more flexible in this regard. Not sure about a 
friendly interface, though.



Jack



Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread William Herrin
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Sergey Voropaev
serge.devo...@gmail.com wrote:
 Does any one know software sollutions (free is preferable) like as cisco GSS
 and F5 BIG-IP? The main point is that DNS-server (or dns server plugin) must
 be able to monitor server availability (for example by TCP connect) and from
 DNS-reply depends on it.

Sergey,

I have no suggestions that directly answer your question. I'd write a
script against bind myself. But if you're trying to fail over a web
server, you're walking into a nasty trap.

DNS pinning obstructs web browsers from finding a server on an
alternate IP address regardless of the DNS TTL. The core issue is that
allowing a browser running javascript to connect to a server other
than the one from which the script came is a gigantic security hole.
Someone realized you could do that by changing the IP address the host
name pointed to, so now there's a convoluted and not entirely
standardized set of rules for when and whether the browser allows it.

Net result is that in some cases a user's long-running browser will
indefinitely ignore the change you made to the DNS. I've seen such
things persist for months.

For better or for worse, the way you -reliably- fail over a web server
is with routing and middleboxes like a load balancer.

Regards,
Bill Herrin


-- 
William D. Herrin  her...@dirtside.com  b...@herrin.us
3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/
Falls Church, VA 22042-3004



Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread InterNetX - Marco Schrieck
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi,


Am 18.01.11 19:31, schrieb Jack Bates:
 On 1/18/2011 11:42 AM, Sergey Voropaev wrote:
 I know that it is possible by BIND with set of script. But we are
 trying to
 find more usable solution with frendly interface.

 
 I think powerdns is more flexible in this regard. Not sure about a
 friendly interface, though.
 

 Jack
 

for powerdns exists also an user interface poweradmin.


Marco
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Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread Rhys Rhaven
Having hit these issues myself, I heavily recommend a real frontend
proxy like nginx or varnish.

On 01/18/2011 12:45 PM, William Herrin wrote:
 On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Sergey Voropaev
 serge.devo...@gmail.com wrote:
 Does any one know software sollutions (free is preferable) like as cisco GSS
 and F5 BIG-IP? The main point is that DNS-server (or dns server plugin) must
 be able to monitor server availability (for example by TCP connect) and from
 DNS-reply depends on it.
 Sergey,

 I have no suggestions that directly answer your question. I'd write a
 script against bind myself. But if you're trying to fail over a web
 server, you're walking into a nasty trap.

 DNS pinning obstructs web browsers from finding a server on an
 alternate IP address regardless of the DNS TTL. The core issue is that
 allowing a browser running javascript to connect to a server other
 than the one from which the script came is a gigantic security hole.
 Someone realized you could do that by changing the IP address the host
 name pointed to, so now there's a convoluted and not entirely
 standardized set of rules for when and whether the browser allows it.

 Net result is that in some cases a user's long-running browser will
 indefinitely ignore the change you made to the DNS. I've seen such
 things persist for months.

 For better or for worse, the way you -reliably- fail over a web server
 is with routing and middleboxes like a load balancer.

 Regards,
 Bill Herrin






Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread Christopher Hunt


Message: 7
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2011 12:31:32 -0600
From: Jack Bates jba...@brightok.net
Subject: Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution
To: Sergey Voropaev serge.devo...@gmail.com
Cc: NANOG list nanog@nanog.org
Message-ID: 4d35dc84.8020...@brightok.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

On 1/18/2011 11:42 AM, Sergey Voropaev wrote:
 I know that it is possible by BIND with set of script. But we are trying to
 find more usable solution with frendly interface.


I think powerdns is more flexible in this regard. Not sure about a
friendly interface, though.


Jack


I find Poweradmin quite usable.  See https://www.poweradmin.org/trac/
for details.

-Christopher Hunt



Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread david raistrick

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, William Herrin wrote:


Net result is that in some cases a user's long-running browser will
indefinitely ignore the change you made to the DNS. I've seen such
things persist for months.


Do you have any recent evidence to support this?  The 
what-browsers-do-with-what world changes daily... and my understanding 
is that a lot of these things that used to be problems have been changed.




For better or for worse, the way you -reliably- fail over a web server
is with routing and middleboxes like a load balancer.


Alas, sometimes that's just not possible - try doing that @ EC2, for 
example (which is why I've recently been on the hunt for GSLB solutions 
that don't involve appliances...).



--
david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html




Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread david raistrick

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Rhys Rhaven wrote:


Having hit these issues myself, I heavily recommend a real frontend
proxy like nginx or varnish.


A frontend proxy (nginx, varnish, haproxy, or anything else) doesnt give 
you HA any more than any other loadbalancer solution does.  You need a way 
to send traffic to another frontend server when the primary frontend 
server fails, or is overloaded, transparently.



The tools we have available these days to do this are VRRP-like solutions 
(which all of the appliances use) that use multicast, some amount of 
NAT and routing magic (which I've often not seen done sanely), or DNS 
solutions (better known as GSLB) that dynamicly change the DNS responses
depending on conditions (which could be source location, or could be 
server availability, or whatever).


Normally, VRRP would be the way to go.   But these days multicast isn't 
supported everywhere (major example - Amazon EC2), leaving DNS...


--
david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html




Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread Jack Bates



On 1/18/2011 1:42 PM, david raistrick wrote:

Normally, VRRP would be the way to go.   But these days multicast isn't
supported everywhere (major example - Amazon EC2), leaving DNS...


Many HA environments use both, and F5 is designed to do both, supporting 
DNS tricks (of which, you could possibly run host based monitoring and 
dynamic updates to accomplish), anycast routing, and vrrp-like DSR/NAT 
load balancing.






Jack



Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread david raistrick



On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Jack Bates wrote:


On 1/18/2011 1:42 PM, david raistrick wrote:

Normally, VRRP would be the way to go.   But these days multicast isn't
supported everywhere (major example - Amazon EC2), leaving DNS...


Many HA environments use both, and F5 is designed to do both, supporting DNS 
tricks (of which, you could possibly run host based monitoring and dynamic 
updates to accomplish), anycast routing, and vrrp-like DSR/NAT load 
balancing.


Agreed.  But sometimes you can't do both. ;)   Now if F5 would sell me an 
appliance that runs their GSLB code I could run @ EC2. ;)







--
david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html




Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread William Herrin
On Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 3:49 PM, Dorn Hetzel d...@hetzel.org wrote:
 If it wouldn't be too ugly, could this be circumvented by having the web
 application continually do its next operation against an incrementing
 subhost name like syymmddhhmmss or snnn.www.foo.com in order to convince
 the local browser and client os to do a fresh lookup?

Hi Dorn,

There's an efficiency problem where you can no longer pipeline http
requests and have to delay every http request while a DNS lookup
happens. Also it'd probably crush your google pagerank.  And you still
wouldn't get around the javascript in your web 2.0 pages needing to go
back to the same server name it came from in order to update the
content on those pages.

The custom name strategy does have some other really neat applications
though. You can track a session without setting a cookie. And consider
a large email system: suppose you encode the account name in the
server name and then point that encoded name to the server which
actually holds that user's account? You can eliminate the expensive
front-end that multiplexes user access to the backend servers.

Regards,
Bill Herrin



-- 
William D. Herrin  her...@dirtside.com  b...@herrin.us
3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/
Falls Church, VA 22042-3004



Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread Charles N Wyble
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Ha-proxy and linux virtual server are popular packages.

On 01/18/2011 09:42 AM, Sergey Voropaev wrote:
 Does any one know software sollutions (free is preferable) like as cisco GSS
 and F5 BIG-IP? The main point is that DNS-server (or dns server plugin) must
 be able to monitor server availability (for example by TCP connect) and from
 DNS-reply depends on it.
 
 I know that it is possible by BIND with set of script. But we are trying to
 find more usable solution with frendly interface.
 
 Thanks a lot.


- -- 
Charles N Wyble (char...@knownelement.com)
Systems craftsman for the stars
http://www.knownelement.com
Mobile: 626 539 4344
Office: 310 929 8793
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Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread david raistrick



On 01/18/2011 09:42 AM, Sergey Voropaev wrote:

Does any one know software sollutions (free is preferable) like as cisco GSS
and F5 BIG-IP? The main point is that DNS-server (or dns server plugin) must
be able to monitor server availability (for example by TCP connect) and from
DNS-reply depends on it.



On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Charles N Wyble wrote:


Ha-proxy and linux virtual server are popular packages.


Neither of these do DNS.   He asked about DNS based loadbalancing (also 
known as GSLB, among other things) software packages




--
david raistrickhttp://www.netmeister.org/news/learn2quote.html
dr...@icantclick.org http://www.expita.com/nomime.html




Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread Gary Steers
Hi Guys,

First time post so please excuse.
*
*
I think you can get a free Citrix NetScaler virtual applicance (VPX) that
will do this with GSLB.

other then that PowerDNS has a very good geolocation plugin, so they may
also have an availabiliy plugin for checks...
*
*
I am also looking for a combined open source geolocation and availability
checking DNS Platform.
*
*
Gary


On 18 January 2011 23:56, Charles N Wyble char...@knownelement.com wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 Ha-proxy and linux virtual server are popular packages.

 On 01/18/2011 09:42 AM, Sergey Voropaev wrote:
  Does any one know software sollutions (free is preferable) like as cisco
 GSS
  and F5 BIG-IP? The main point is that DNS-server (or dns server plugin)
 must
  be able to monitor server availability (for example by TCP connect) and
 from
  DNS-reply depends on it.
 
  I know that it is possible by BIND with set of script. But we are trying
 to
  find more usable solution with frendly interface.
 
  Thanks a lot.


 - --
 Charles N Wyble (char...@knownelement.com)
 Systems craftsman for the stars
 http://www.knownelement.com
 Mobile: 626 539 4344
 Office: 310 929 8793
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Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread Charles N Wyble
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Hash: SHA1

On 01/18/2011 04:01 PM, david raistrick wrote:
 
 On 01/18/2011 09:42 AM, Sergey Voropaev wrote:
 Does any one know software sollutions (free is preferable) like as
 cisco GSS
 and F5 BIG-IP? The main point is that DNS-server (or dns server
 plugin) must
 be able to monitor server availability (for example by TCP connect)
 and from
 DNS-reply depends on it.

 
 On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Charles N Wyble wrote:

 Ha-proxy and linux virtual server are popular packages.
 
 Neither of these do DNS. 

What does that mean? Load balance DNS lookups across multiple servers?
Or use DNS to load balance? I've never setup a load balancer for DNS
before. Always just had one server and moved the VM in event of
failure/maintenance.

  He asked about DNS based loadbalancing (also
 known as GSLB, among other things) software packages

Ah. DNS based load balancing. I've heard good things about powerdns for
that.



- -- 
Charles N Wyble (char...@knownelement.com)
Systems craftsman for the stars
http://www.knownelement.com
Mobile: 626 539 4344
Office: 310 929 8793
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Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread Gary Steers
What does that mean? Load balance DNS lookups across multiple servers?
Or use DNS to load balance? I've never setup a load balancer for DNS
before. Always just had one server and moved the VM in event of
failure/maintenance.
*
*
I think using DNS to load balance is what was meant, PowerDNS can do this,
but most DNS servers can to basic load balancing/round robin (it will just
give out a different/multiple A Records each time. I've done this with bind
and Microsoft before.

PowerDNS has an awsome geolocation plugin, and that probably can be tied to
a check to see if the IP is up so it's actually checking the status of IPs
to make it more automated.

Gary

On 19 January 2011 00:39, Charles N Wyble char...@knownelement.com wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 On 01/18/2011 04:01 PM, david raistrick wrote:
 
  On 01/18/2011 09:42 AM, Sergey Voropaev wrote:
  Does any one know software sollutions (free is preferable) like as
  cisco GSS
  and F5 BIG-IP? The main point is that DNS-server (or dns server
  plugin) must
  be able to monitor server availability (for example by TCP connect)
  and from
  DNS-reply depends on it.
 
 
  On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Charles N Wyble wrote:
 
  Ha-proxy and linux virtual server are popular packages.
 
  Neither of these do DNS.

 What does that mean? Load balance DNS lookups across multiple servers?
 Or use DNS to load balance? I've never setup a load balancer for DNS
 before. Always just had one server and moved the VM in event of
 failure/maintenance.

  He asked about DNS based loadbalancing (also
  known as GSLB, among other things) software packages

 Ah. DNS based load balancing. I've heard good things about powerdns for
 that.



 - --
 Charles N Wyble (char...@knownelement.com)
 Systems craftsman for the stars
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Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread Jay Reitz
 PowerDNS has an awsome geolocation plugin, and that probably can be tied to
 a check to see if the IP is up so it's actually checking the status of IPs
 to make it more automated.

 Gary


gdnsd is very robust and fast and has an interface that a networking
engineer won't mind.  It comes with a geolocation plugin with
health-check failover via HTTP.

http://code.google.com/p/gdnsd/

j.



Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread Paul Graydon

On 01/18/2011 07:42 AM, Sergey Voropaev wrote:

Does any one know software sollutions (free is preferable) like as cisco GSS
and F5 BIG-IP? The main point is that DNS-server (or dns server plugin) must
be able to monitor server availability (for example by TCP connect) and from
DNS-reply depends on it.

I know that it is possible by BIND with set of script. But we are trying to
find more usable solution with frendly interface.

Thanks a lot.
If you want to get fancy you could try an Anycast DNS setup, using GNU's 
Zebra tool to automatically alter routing tables. 
http://www.netlinxinc.com/netlinx-blog/45-dns/118-introduction-to-anycast-dns.html


Paul



Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution

2011-01-18 Thread Jon Lewis

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Charles N Wyble wrote:


 He asked about DNS based loadbalancing (also

known as GSLB, among other things) software packages


Ah. DNS based load balancing. I've heard good things about powerdns for
that.


I assume the good things is that with powerdns and the gmysql backend, 
it's trivial to have a script do some SQL updates as often as you need to 
change the content and change_date of the records you're using for the DNS 
based load balancing.


--
 Jon Lewis, MCP :)   |  I route
 Senior Network Engineer |  therefore you are
 Atlantic Net|
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Re: Software DNS hghi availability and load balancer solution [SEC=UNCLASSIFIED]

2011-01-18 Thread Wilkinson, Alex

0n Tue, Jan 18, 2011 at 02:42:57PM -0500, david raistrick wrote: 

On Tue, 18 Jan 2011, Rhys Rhaven wrote:

 Having hit these issues myself, I heavily recommend a real frontend
 proxy like nginx or varnish.

A frontend proxy (nginx, varnish, haproxy, or anything else) doesnt give 
you HA any more than any other loadbalancer solution does.  You need a way 
to send traffic to another frontend server when the primary frontend 
server fails, or is overloaded, transparently.

freebsd + varnish + carp (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/pf/carp.html)

  -Alex

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