RE: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
Might want to double check you aren't filtering, as parts of 1/8 and 2/8 have been intermittently announced by RIR's in debogonizing efforts over the last few months. Routing wise, this really isn't different from the space being assigned - better to clear up any filtering and identify routing problems or renumbering efforts you may need now before the space gets allocated, probably later this year. In fact, parts of 2/8 are being announced right now for debogon-izing: route-viewssh ip bgp 2.0.0.0/8 longer-prefixes BGP table version is 2323163774, local router ID is 128.223.51.103 Status codes: s suppressed, d damped, h history, * valid, best, i - internal, r RIB-failure, S Stale Origin codes: i - IGP, e - EGP, ? - incomplete Network Next HopMetric LocPrf Weight Path * 2.0.0.0/16 194.85.102.33 0 3277 3267 30132 12654 I --Heather -Original Message- From: John Palmer (NANOG Acct) [mailto:nan...@adns.net] Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 7:37 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8) When do you think that 1/8, 2/8 and 50/8 will start showing up as live, assigned addresses. I don't see any of them coming in on my core routers yet. - Original Message - From: Leo Vegoda leo.veg...@icann.org To: Jon Lewis jle...@lewis.org Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8) On 5 Apr 2010, at 9:13, Jon Lewis wrote: On Sun, 4 Apr 2010, Christopher Morrow wrote: [...] If we could recover them all, how many more years of IPv4 allocations would that buy us? We allocate RIRs approximately one /8 per month. So you'd have to reclaim 12 /8s to extend the allocation pool by one year. Regards, Leo
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
On 4/5/10 6:02 AM, Brandon Ross wrote: Seriously? You do realize that the InteropNet actually has to provide a real service to the exhibitors and attendees of the show, right? This year's network will support v6, but a v6-only network is just not a practical way to supply real network connectivity to customers, yet. WHINY-OLDER-THAN-I-AM I remember the days of Ron Natalie running around with a cherry picker in San Jose, and the whole point of the network being to test interoperability, so that things would and did break (and then we fixed them). If v6 is even close to ready, wouldn't it be sad that this sort of testing isn't done at interop? Or is it just sad that v6 isn't so close to being ready? Or is it both? /WHINY-OLDER-THAN-I-AM
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Eliot Lear wrote: If v6 is even close to ready, wouldn't it be sad that this sort of testing isn't done at interop? Or is it just sad that v6 isn't so close to being ready? Or is it both? The suggestion was to run a v6 only network. Does anyone on the NANOG list believe that v6 is at all ready to be run without any v4 underpinnings and provide a real service to a customer base? -- Brandon Ross
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Eliot Lear wrote: I remember the days of Ron Natalie running around with a cherry picker in San Jose, and the whole point of the network being to test interoperability, so that things would and did break (and then we fixed them). If v6 is even close to ready, wouldn't it be sad that this sort of testing isn't done at interop? Or is it just sad that v6 isn't so close to being ready? Or is it both? The lack of v6 readiness for a long time (and to some extent today) seems to have been locked in a vicious circle. Many users haven't been pushing vendors for v6 capabilities in their products (software and hardware) because they either didn't know about it, and/or didn't perceive it as important. OS developers seemed to be the most ahead of the curve on this, with usable v6 stacks available for most modern OSen for several years, and close to a decade in some cases. Many providers for a long time weren't implementing v6 because, while many knew it needed to happen, customers weren't pushing for it, and many network equipment vendors didn't have solid v6 implementations. Content providers would also fall into this bucket. Many vendors for a long time weren't making v6 development and support a priority because customers weren't pushing for it, so they didn't see a financial reason to do so. jms
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 10:12:48AM -0400, Brandon Ross wrote: On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Eliot Lear wrote: If v6 is even close to ready, wouldn't it be sad that this sort of testing isn't done at interop? Or is it just sad that v6 isn't so close to being ready? Or is it both? The suggestion was to run a v6 only network. Does anyone on the NANOG list believe that v6 is at all ready to be run without any v4 underpinnings and provide a real service to a customer base? -- Brandon Ross very - very close. if you have fewer than 50,000 nodes in your net, and its not topologically dense, then you -can- run a native IPv6 net w/o dual stack (save on the edge translator and the DNS (and DHCP - if you have the patches)) for all of them. I've done it - on several networks. --bill
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
On Wed, 7 Apr 2010 10:12:48 -0400 (EDT) Brandon Ross br...@pobox.com wrote: On Wed, 7 Apr 2010, Eliot Lear wrote: If v6 is even close to ready, wouldn't it be sad that this sort of testing isn't done at interop? Or is it just sad that v6 isn't so close to being ready? Or is it both? The suggestion was to run a v6 only network. Does anyone on the NANOG list believe that v6 is at all ready to be run without any v4 underpinnings and provide a real service to a customer base? I do. (And no, I'm not fantasising, my day work is involving working on productising it, and mostly that's involving supplementary things, not the essentials of a providing an IPv6 capable service). -- Brandon Ross
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
In a message written on Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 10:12:48AM -0400, Brandon Ross wrote: The suggestion was to run a v6 only network. Does anyone on the NANOG list believe that v6 is at all ready to be run without any v4 underpinnings and provide a real service to a customer base? Is it ready, absolutely. Is it pretty, not quite. But that's ok, it will take some time in the real world to get the spit polish IPv4 has had 25+ years to earn. The issue is not is IPv6 ready, it's how do you interoperate between the IPv6 world and the IPv4 world. Dual stack was/is the answer, but with IPv4 running out it won't be for much longer. Is the answer a transition mechanism or cold turkey? It probably depends on your situation. -- Leo Bicknell - bickn...@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/ pgpbxZ1HNxGxS.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
On Wed, 07 Apr 2010 16:09:25 +0200, Eliot Lear said: them). If v6 is even close to ready, wouldn't it be sad that this sort of testing isn't done at interop? Interop long ago ceased being a interop shootout and became a 8x11 color glossy trade show. I think the last time any actual *testing* happened at Interop, the guys hooking up the network drops were wearing t-shirts that said Yes, the subnet mask really *is* 255.255.252.0, and anybody who whined that their gear only supported octet-boundary subnets was told And next year, it will be 255.255.250.0. :) Anybody got production gear that *still* doesn't do non-octet-boundary subnets? pgpVQKxYxEmhv.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com writes: also, see previous 12 episodes of this conversation.. 1 /8 == ~3months in ARIN allocation timeframes. 1 /8 at global IANA free pool runout time (which is the only reasonable way to think about it...) will buy us about 24 days on a global consumption basis... assuming there isn't an end times land rush. -r
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
On Tue, Apr 06, 2010 at 12:01:47PM -0400, Robert E. Seastrom wrote: Christopher Morrow morrowc.li...@gmail.com writes: also, see previous 12 episodes of this conversation.. 1 /8 == ~3months in ARIN allocation timeframes. 1 /8 at global IANA free pool runout time (which is the only reasonable way to think about it...) will buy us about 24 days on a global consumption basis... assuming there isn't an end times land rush. -r so... just for grins, how do all those w/ bits leftover from their overly generous inital allocations (they forced me to take a /20 when all i really needed was a /28 multihomed) find partners who are willing to use the rest of those bits to get the delegation in question up to a comfortable 85% utilization? are you and Marty going to open up a matching service? co-op match.com or e-harmony? craigslist? --bill
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
When do you think that 1/8, 2/8 and 50/8 will start showing up as live, assigned addresses. I don't see any of them coming in on my core routers yet. - Original Message - From: Leo Vegoda leo.veg...@icann.org To: Jon Lewis jle...@lewis.org Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 1:04 PM Subject: Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8) On 5 Apr 2010, at 9:13, Jon Lewis wrote: On Sun, 4 Apr 2010, Christopher Morrow wrote: [...] If we could recover them all, how many more years of IPv4 allocations would that buy us? We allocate RIRs approximately one /8 per month. So you'd have to reclaim 12 /8s to extend the allocation pool by one year. Regards, Leo
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010, Christopher Morrow wrote: also, see previous 12 episodes of this conversation.. 1 /8 == ~3months in ARIN allocation timeframes. Does a trade show really need 16M IPv4 addresses though? How many other /8's were assigned way back when IPv4 was being given out so freely that ARIN would laugh at if that org applied today for that /8? If we could recover them all, how many more years of IPv4 allocations would that buy us? -- Jon Lewis | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net| _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
On Mon, Apr 5, 2010 at 11:13 AM, Jon Lewis jle...@lewis.org wrote: If we could recover them all, how many more years of IPv4 allocations would that buy us? Not enough. -- Jon Lewis | I route Senior Network Engineer | therefore you are Atlantic Net| _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgphttp://www.lewis.org/%7Ejlewis/pgpfor PGP public key_ -- Brandon Galbraith Voice: 630.492.0464
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
On 5 Apr 2010, at 9:13, Jon Lewis wrote: On Sun, 4 Apr 2010, Christopher Morrow wrote: [...] If we could recover them all, how many more years of IPv4 allocations would that buy us? We allocate RIRs approximately one /8 per month. So you'd have to reclaim 12 /8s to extend the allocation pool by one year. Regards, Leo
interop show network (was: legacy /8)
Someone in another thread mentioned interop show network. Which made me curious and I did a bit of searching. I found the following article from 2008 about the interop show: http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/27583 The show could setup an IPv6 only network in order to showcase it? That'd free up a /8. There are an enormous number of vendors that are either not ready for IPv6, or are simply unwilling to say that supporting IPv6 is the future requirement for enterprise network operators. This future is a lot closer than many expect. Only a handful of the large network hardware vendors at the show were in better shape. I'm sure that's because those companies that have been tracking or leading the IPv6 protocol work within the IETF; however, not many displayed that capability outright on their booths. (..) So why is Interop so late to the IPv6 world? No good answer seemed to be present. My guess is that it's because Interop itself has a /8's worth of IPv4 space – space allocated back in 1991 specifically for the Interop tradeshows. That's a lot of address space and a quick calculation shows that Interop has permanently allocated nearly half a percent of the presently used IPv4 address space. Maybe that address space should be returned to IANA? Maybe Interop should run a show where IP allocation is also part of the pre-show network planning. Then, maybe, they will see the light and realize that IPv6 is important! Perhaps with IPv6 available, Interop will also start showing off new applications and capabilities that IPv6 brings to the table. The author though is an employee of hurricane electric. Which is interesting because I have 166 netblocks for that company in my permanent spam block list. Including 12*/24 blocks and 1*/18. And I have no doubt that will be increasing. So I guess that puts it in a perspective. Regards, Jeroen
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
On Sun, 4 Apr 2010, Jeroen van Aart wrote: Someone in another thread mentioned interop show network. Which made me curious and I did a bit of searching. I found the following article from 2008 about the interop show: http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/27583 The show could setup an IPv6 only network in order to showcase it? That'd free up a /8. Seriously? You do realize that the InteropNet actually has to provide a real service to the exhibitors and attendees of the show, right? This year's network will support v6, but a v6-only network is just not a practical way to supply real network connectivity to customers, yet. -- Brandon Ross AIM: BrandonNRoss Director of Network EngineeringICQ: 2269442 Xiocom WirelessSkype: brandonross Yahoo: BrandonNRoss
Re: interop show network (was: legacy /8)
On Sun, Apr 4, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Brandon Ross br...@pobox.com wrote: On Sun, 4 Apr 2010, Jeroen van Aart wrote: Someone in another thread mentioned interop show network. Which made me curious and I did a bit of searching. I found the following article from 2008 about the interop show: http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/27583 The show could setup an IPv6 only network in order to showcase it? That'd free up a /8. Seriously? You do realize that the InteropNet actually has to provide a real service to the exhibitors and attendees of the show, right? This year's network will support v6, but a v6-only network is just not a practical way to supply real network connectivity to customers, yet. also, see previous 12 episodes of this conversation.. 1 /8 == ~3months in ARIN allocation timeframes. There is no cure, pls to be rolling out IPv6 2 years ago. -chris
