[neonixie-l] OT: Help with Polish Address

['threeneurons' via neonixie-l]

I need someone familiar with addresses in Poland, to help me with an 
address. Apparently, a parcel went missing. It got to Poland, then 
disappeared. Please contact me privately, at my junk email threeneurons at 
yahoo.com 

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Re: [neonixie-l] NOT another nixie clock!

[John Rehwinkel]

> Upvote here for the TI MSP43x series.
> 
> The new ones, the 432s, run at 13 microamp per MHz. Very easy to programming 
> (C++) using free IDE. Development boards (aka "launchpads") cost just a few 
> USD. Lovely chips...

The "Spy-bi-wire" programming only uses two signals (and pins) and ability to 
run without a crystal makes it possible to breadboard the DIP ones easily.  For 
people who prefer the Arduino environment, there's an MSP430 port called 
"Energia".  And the Launchpad development boards Nick mentioned come with an 
on-board programming interface you can use to program other chips.  The 
programming/debug interface runs through a block of jumpers where you can tap 
it off for your own uses.  There's a family of add-on daughterboards as well.

- John

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Re: [neonixie-l] NOT another nixie clock!

[Nick]

Upvote here for the TI MSP43x series.

The new ones, the 432s, run at 13 microamp per MHz. Very easy to programming 
(C++) using free IDE. Development boards (aka "launchpads") cost just a few 
USD. Lovely chips...

Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] NOT another nixie clock!

[John Rehwinkel]

> It's a classic tradeoff regarding RasPi vs Arduino vs FPGA. Everyone has 
> different pain-points for cost, power, boot-time, features, development 
> effort, etc.

Quite true.

> Maybe Aduino is a better option; I'm going that route for my next clock 
> project. If you plan your design, you can add various shields for added 
> features and still run the DMM and nixies (maybe thru I2C ?). My only dislike 
> regarding Arduino is the I/O is rather slow, and there aren't a lot of pins.

The Arduino IDE is extensible, and many companies (including Arduino) have run 
with this, offering the Arduino development environment for much more powerful 
chips.  I have a personal fondness for the AdaFruit "feather" series and the 
PJRC "Teensy" ones, both of which offer some very nice hardware (32-bit ARM 
CPUs at good clock rates and lots of I/O) at very attractive prices and you can 
plug them right into a breadboard if you like.  I've ended up building these 
into a wide variety of projects.

> An FPGA will give you the fastest boot-time (milliseconds), tons of I/Os, and 
> probably lowest power-consumption (below 400mW for me),

The lowest power consumption solution I've personally worked with is TI's 
MSP430 line.  Those chips (especially the FRAM ones) are amazingly power 
efficient and reasonably powerful as well.

> but it involves the most work (you better be a good Verilog or VHDL coder). 
> I've done 3 different clock designs with FPGA's, and it was a bit more work 
> developing the code. However, it's far, FAR better than hardwired logic such 
> as what I did on my first nixie clock.

I haven't gotten much into FPGAs myself (I worked with the earlier PAL and GAL 
technology some).  Note that the environments are only available for Linux and 
windows.

> A RasPi will have everything you want, plus more. But it's going to cost a 
> bit more and use more power. However, it makes code updates very simple 
> (connect to internet & download), not to mention you can do bizarre things 
> like logging into your device  even if it's at a customer site far, far away.

A Pi Zero is $5, so it's cheaper that almost everything else out there.  
However, I only use something like that when I can deal with the "real OS" 
issues (boot time, varying I/O timing, etc.).

I have no patience for clocks, so I'm always looking for other nixie projects 
to build.

- John

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Re: [neonixie-l] NOT another nixie clock!

[David Forbes]

I think you would be bonkers to run an OS in a voltmeter. I have removed 
the OSes from many of our telescope's embedded computers, because 
software updates are the last thing you want to have to do in a machine.


A standard AVR 32U4 processor as used in an Arduino Leonardo is plenty 
of horsepower, and the limited I/O is not a problem if the display is 
driven by 74HC595 SPI shift registers and the DMM chip has an SPI or I2C 
port.


That's what I used in my scope clock, which does way more work than a 
Nixie tube voltmeter does.


Plus, Arduino is a rather friendly development environment for those of 
us who like to make our tools do odd things.



On 10/8/2016 12:17 PM, gregebert wrote:

It's a classic tradeoff regarding RasPi vs Arduino vs FPGA. Everyone has
different pain-points for cost, power, boot-time, features, development
effort, etc.

Maybe Aduino is a better option; I'm going that route for my next clock
project. If you plan your design, you can add various shields for added
features and still run the DMM and nixies (maybe thru I2C ?). My only
dislike regarding Arduino is the I/O is rather slow, and there aren't a
lot of pins.

An FPGA will give you the fastest boot-time (milliseconds), tons of
I/Os, and probably lowest power-consumption (below 400mW for me), but it
involves the most work (you better be a good Verilog or VHDL coder).
I've done 3 different clock designs with FPGA's, and it was a bit more
work developing the code. However, it's far, FAR better than hardwired
logic such as what I did on my first nixie clock.

A RasPi will have everything you want, plus more. But it's going to cost
a bit more and use more power. However, it makes code updates very
simple (connect to internet & download), not to mention you can do
bizarre things like logging into your device  even if it's at a customer
site far, far away.

I do have the option of pulling the FPGA or Arduino aside and using
something else such as a RasPi, if I wish, on most of my designs (OK,
not the wristwatch...).



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Re: [neonixie-l] NOT another nixie clock!

[gregebert]

It's a classic tradeoff regarding RasPi vs Arduino vs FPGA. Everyone has 
different pain-points for cost, power, boot-time, features, development 
effort, etc.

Maybe Aduino is a better option; I'm going that route for my next clock 
project. If you plan your design, you can add various shields for added 
features and still run the DMM and nixies (maybe thru I2C ?). My only 
dislike regarding Arduino is the I/O is rather slow, and there aren't a lot 
of pins.

An FPGA will give you the fastest boot-time (milliseconds), tons of I/Os, 
and probably lowest power-consumption (below 400mW for me), but it involves 
the most work (you better be a good Verilog or VHDL coder). I've done 3 
different clock designs with FPGA's, and it was a bit more work developing 
the code. However, it's far, FAR better than hardwired logic such as what I 
did on my first nixie clock.

A RasPi will have everything you want, plus more. But it's going to cost a 
bit more and use more power. However, it makes code updates very simple 
(connect to internet & download), not to mention you can do bizarre things 
like logging into your device  even if it's at a customer site far, far 
away.

I do have the option of pulling the FPGA or Arduino aside and using 
something else such as a RasPi, if I wish, on most of my designs (OK, not 
the wristwatch...).



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Re: [neonixie-l] NOT another nixie clock!

[Laurence Wilkins]

Thanks for your interest, I'll keep you posted!

On Friday, 7 October 2016 20:44:53 UTC+1, Nortonian wrote:
>
> Greetings Nixiers, 
>
> Laurence, i think it's a fabulous idea. I, too, have been thinking about 
> non-clock nixie projects, but hadn't thought of a modern bench meter. 
> Great idea! To those like Dylan (and me) who are a little nervous about 
> the pricing, i suggest starting a NMM fund *now*. Less than $50 a month, 
> and when it's ready, you'll be able to put cash on the barrelhead! 
>
> In all seriousness, Laurence, i hope you go forward with this project, 
> and count me in for a kit. 
>
> All the best, 
> Sam 
>
>
> On 2016-10-07 15:07, Dylan Distasio wrote: 
> > I would love one, and applaud the idea, but that price point will put 
> > it out of range for me. 
> > 
> > On Oct 7, 2016 3:02 PM, "Laurence Wilkins"  
> wrote: 
> > 
> >> Over almost the last ten years, I have been designing, producing and 
> >> selling a variety of logic and PIC Micro-controlled nixie clocks, 
> >> from classic 2x3 mux 74141-based designs to multiplexed and direct 
> >> drive IN18 monsters, to miniature desk clocks and single digit 
> >> weirdness. I feel I've "been there" now, and want to find other 
> >> appropriate outlets for these glorious glowing anachronisms! (that 
> >> is: nixie tubes). 
> >> 
> >> I've been giving some serious thought recently to designing and 
> >> building a good quality 50,000 count (4 3/4 digit) Bench Digital 
> >> Multimeter with a fair few (sensible) bells and whistles, but of 
> >> course with a nixie display. It would use a standard but very 
> >> capable DMM "front-end" chip to do all the measurement, 
> >> opto-isolated to a controller and then onto a direct drive nixie 
> >> display (with Volts/Amps/Ohms/Hertz symbols!) Battery or mains, USB 
> >> output (or is that input?). I am aiming for CAT IV performance by 
> >> design (but not by certification - too expensive), good accuracy as 
> >> afforded by the front end chip, and in a good quality case (likely 
> >> to be the most expensive component). I'd like to offer it both as an 
> >> assemble-able kit (so I'd presolder small SMD parts) or a fully 
> >> assembled instrument. This would be a "serious" bit of kit, not 
> >> something which _looks like_ it was thrown together in a biscuit 
> >> tin! I've yet to decide whether the software would be open source, 
> >> but it might be nice to let "the community" develop additional 
> >> functions in software (data logging, averaging, etc.) 
> >> 
> >> I aim to produce a batch of maybe 50 instruments, but I really 
> >> don't have much of a clue as to the demand, out there. "It's going 
> >> to depend on cost," you say. Well, based on BOM costs so far, it is 
> >> not going to come in much (if anything) below about GBP £400 (USD 
> >> $550). Yes, you could spend that on a new meter and get guaranteed 
> >> similar specs, but _it wouldn't have a nixie display_ which is of 
> >> course the unique selling point. 
> >> 
> >> It might take me around 12 months from pressing the button to a 
> >> finished product. I've looked, but there appears to be nothing else 
> >> out there. 
> >> 
> >> So what does the group think? Are we nixie nuts a very small group? 
> >> Are clocks enough? Is that price way too high? (the BOM costs means 
> >> the price can’t be much lower, for small volumes!) 
> >> 
> >> Regards 
> >> 
> >> Laurence 
> >> 
> >> www.MrNixie.com [1] 
> >> 
> >> (the one in England they call) Mr Nixie 
> >> 
> >> -- 
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> . 
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> >> 
> > 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/6f8b3456-3add-41b2-9106-765741d98a48%40googlegroups.com
>  
> >> [2]. 
> >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout [3]. 
> > 
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> > 
> > Links: 
> > -- 
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> > [2] 
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>  
> > [3] https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
> > [4] 
> > 
> 

Re: [neonixie-l] NOT another nixie clock!

[Laurence Wilkins]

Yes, my envisioned Nixie DMM will include a frequency counter, but not 
fancy period or averaging functions, not much beyond maybe 40MHz.

On Saturday, 8 October 2016 16:11:05 UTC+1, Jonathan wrote:
>
> I too have as many clocks as I need, although I haven't made as many as 
> you. I have a kitchen timer, an indoor outdoor thermometer (pixies) and a 
> hot tub temp. display. I have an HP VOM that I have been meaning to fix.
>
> I have been planning to make a frequency counter. In my case I would use 
> it as part of a custom ham radio, nixies for frequency, neon bar graph tube 
> for an S meter, magic eyes for forward and reflected power, that sort of 
> thing. Others might use it for all sorts of purposes, like measuring RPM. 
>
> $500 is way beyond what I can spend on a meter. :-(
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
> I've been giving some serious thought recently to designing and building a 
> good quality 50,000 count (4 3/4 digit) Bench Digital Multimeter with a 
> fair few (sensible) bells and whistles, but of course with a nixie display. 
> It would use a standard but very capable DMM "front-end" chip to do all the 
> measurement, opto-isolated to a controller and then onto a direct drive 
> nixie display (with Volts/Amps/Ohms/Hertz symbols!) Battery or mains, USB 
> output (or is that input?). I am aiming for CAT IV performance by design 
> (but not by certification - too expensive), good accuracy as afforded by 
> the front end chip, and in a good quality case (likely to be the most 
> expensive component). I'd like to offer it both as an assemble-able kit (so 
> I'd presolder small SMD parts) or a fully assembled instrument. This would 
> be a "serious" bit of kit, not something which *looks like* it was thrown 
> together in a biscuit tin!  I've yet to decide whether the software would 
> be open source, but it might be nice to let "the community" develop 
> additional functions in software (data logging, averaging, etc.)
>
>
> I aim to produce a batch of maybe 50 instruments, but I really don't have 
> much of a clue as to the demand, out there. "It's going to depend on cost," 
> you say. Well, based on BOM costs so far, it is not going to come in much 
> (if anything) below about GBP £400 (USD $550). Yes, you could spend that on 
> a new meter and get guaranteed similar specs, but *it wouldn't have a 
> nixie display* which is of course the unique selling point.
>
>
> It might take me around 12 months from pressing the button to a finished 
> product. I've looked, but there appears to be nothing else out there.
>
>
> So what does the group think? Are we nixie nuts a very small group? Are 
> clocks enough? Is that price way too high? (the BOM costs means the price 
> can’t be much lower, for small volumes!)
>
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] NOT another nixie clock!

[Laurence Wilkins]

Thanks for your note.

Well, you can buy "front end" DMM chips that just do the measuring with no 
built in display, but some serial I/O to a processor/display/keyboard 
combo. That's my route.

Not settled on the processor, yet. I also play with Raspberry Pis, and 
while I might use one for early software development, I have ruled them out 
for a place in the final product for a couple of reasons. The most annoying 
aspect of my otherwise nice Fluke 289 DMM is the ~10 second boot time. I 
want that voltage reading, NOW! Pi's boot in around 30 seconds, and even 
though the application is for  a bench meter, I would find that start-up 
delay frustrating.  Also, as others have found, Pi's do not take kindly to 
just being switched off, without a proper power-down. I need something more 
reliable and able to withstand "mild" abuse that that.


On Friday, 7 October 2016 20:56:45 UTC+1, gregebert wrote:
>
> Yeah, that's a project I've thought about, but my conclusion was that the 
> DMM chips were all intended for direct-drive LCD, or perhaps LED. I get 
> stuck in an endless loop of trying to justify building something really 
> interesting that wont get used very much vs adding features that would be 
> unique (measure milliohms, inductance, kilovolts, and true-RMS milliwatts). 
>  Guess what...I get nowhere.
>
> A Raspberry Pi would likely be the best platform, as there is all sorts of 
> software out there to enable it to run as a networked device. 
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] NOT another nixie clock!

[Laurence Wilkins]

Thaks for your reply, William. Yeah, well, it costs a lot (before I 
consider any return for my time!). This is my concern - if the market fo 
rthe price I need to charge isn't there, I don't have a project, after 
all...

On Friday, 7 October 2016 20:07:56 UTC+1, William Lee wrote:
>
> I would love one, and applaud the idea, but that price point will put it 
> out of range for me.  
>
> On Oct 7, 2016 3:02 PM, "Laurence Wilkins"  
> wrote:
>
>> Over almost the last ten years, I have been designing, producing and 
>> selling a variety of logic and PIC Micro-controlled nixie clocks, from 
>> classic 2x3 mux 74141-based designs to multiplexed and direct drive IN18 
>> monsters, to miniature desk clocks and single digit weirdness. I feel I've 
>> "been there" now, and want to find other appropriate outlets for these 
>> glorious glowing anachronisms! (that is: nixie tubes).
>>
>> I've been giving some serious thought recently to designing and building 
>> a good quality 50,000 count (4 3/4 digit) Bench Digital Multimeter with a 
>> fair few (sensible) bells and whistles, but of course with a nixie display. 
>> It would use a standard but very capable DMM "front-end" chip to do all the 
>> measurement, opto-isolated to a controller and then onto a direct drive 
>> nixie display (with Volts/Amps/Ohms/Hertz symbols!) Battery or mains, USB 
>> output (or is that input?). I am aiming for CAT IV performance by design 
>> (but not by certification - too expensive), good accuracy as afforded by 
>> the front end chip, and in a good quality case (likely to be the most 
>> expensive component). I'd like to offer it both as an assemble-able kit (so 
>> I'd presolder small SMD parts) or a fully assembled instrument. This would 
>> be a "serious" bit of kit, not something which *looks like* it was 
>> thrown together in a biscuit tin!  I've yet to decide whether the software 
>> would be open source, but it might be nice to let "the community" develop 
>> additional functions in software (data logging, averaging, etc.)
>>
>> I aim to produce a batch of maybe 50 instruments, but I really don't have 
>> much of a clue as to the demand, out there. "It's going to depend on cost," 
>> you say. Well, based on BOM costs so far, it is not going to come in much 
>> (if anything) below about GBP £400 (USD $550). Yes, you could spend that on 
>> a new meter and get guaranteed similar specs, but *it wouldn't have a 
>> nixie display* which is of course the unique selling point.
>>
>>
>> It might take me around 12 months from pressing the button to a finished 
>> product. I've looked, but there appears to be nothing else out there.
>>
>>
>> So what does the group think? Are we nixie nuts a very small group? Are 
>> clocks enough? Is that price way too high? (the BOM costs means the price 
>> can’t be much lower, for small volumes!)
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Laurence
>>
>> www.MrNixie.com
>>
>>
>> (the one in England they call) Mr Nixie
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "neonixie-l" group.
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>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/6f8b3456-3add-41b2-9106-765741d98a48%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] NOT another nixie clock!

[Jonathan Peakall]

I too have as many clocks as I need, although I haven't made as many as 
you. I have a kitchen timer, an indoor outdoor thermometer (pixies) and 
a hot tub temp. display. I have an HP VOM that I have been meaning to fix.


I have been planning to make a frequency counter. In my case I would use 
it as part of a custom ham radio, nixies for frequency, neon bar graph 
tube for an S meter, magic eyes for forward and reflected power, that 
sort of thing. Others might use it for all sorts of purposes, like 
measuring RPM.


$500 is way beyond what I can spend on a meter. :-(

Jonathan



I've been giving some serious thought recently to designing and 
building a good quality 50,000 count (4 3/4 digit) Bench Digital 
Multimeter with a fair few (sensible) bells and whistles, but of 
course with a nixie display. It would use a standard but very capable 
DMM "front-end" chip to do all the measurement, opto-isolated to a 
controller and then onto a direct drive nixie display (with 
Volts/Amps/Ohms/Hertz symbols!) Battery or mains, USB output (or is 
that input?). I am aiming for CAT IV performance by design (but not by 
certification - too expensive), good accuracy as afforded by the front 
end chip, and in a good quality case (likely to be the most expensive 
component). I'd like to offer it both as an assemble-able kit (so I'd 
presolder small SMD parts) or a fully assembled instrument. This would 
be a "serious" bit of kit, not something which /looks like/ it was 
thrown together in a biscuit tin!  I've yet to decide whether the 
software would be open source, but it might be nice to let "the 
community" develop additional functions in software (data logging, 
averaging, etc.)



I aim to produce a batch of maybe 50 instruments, but I really don't 
have much of a clue as to the demand, out there. "It's going to depend 
on cost," you say. Well, based on BOM costs so far, it is not going to 
come in much (if anything) below about GBP £400 (USD $550). Yes, you 
could spend that on a new meter and get guaranteed similar specs, but 
/it wouldn't have a nixie display/ which is of course the unique 
selling point.



It might take me around 12 months from pressing the button to a 
finished product. I've looked, but there appears to be nothing else 
out there.



So what does the group think? Are we nixie nuts a very small group? 
Are clocks enough? Is that price way too high? (the BOM costs means 
the price can’t be much lower, for small volumes!)





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[neonixie-l] Re: Where do I find companies that can laser cut perspex/wood and which software should I use?

[Mike Mitchell]

I've used Pololu Electronics a few times for laser cutting.
See https://www.pololu.com/product/749

I've had them supply the acrylic, I just send them the cad file and select 
from their stock.

Mike

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