Re: [neonixie-l] B-5971 Smartsocket / Driver

[Bill Notfaded]

Yeah it took a while for my sealed box if IN-18 tubes to show from Russia.
You know I think John Taylor sells two lengths of them too.  I can wait
though.  Let me know know if you need anything from me.  I'm waiting on 8
IV-13 queen numitrons and a 4 side iv-13 numi queen clock from Russia right
now.  I've got other tubes and stuff coming from places all over Russia too
lol.  I order stuff all the time.

B

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 9:29 PM Michail Wilson  wrote:

> Bill / Thomas,
>
>
>
> I have most of the parts already.
>
> The circuit boards and the socket pins are left.
>
>
>
> The boards tracking is:
>
>
> https://www.ups.com/track?loc=en_US=1ZF51V700296347533=WT/trackdetails
>
>
>
> The problem is that the pins will take a long time (coming from Russia).
>
> *RO184731146RU*  At least it shows it is on the way.  J
>
>
>
> I am out of state until the 22nd.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michail
>
>
>
> *From:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Thomas Kummer
> *Sent:* Monday, April 8, 2019 12:44 PM
> *To:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] B-5971 Smartsocket / Driver
>
>
>
> I want to run a 6 digit clock. lol
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Apr 8, 2019, at 13:43, Thomas Kummer  wrote:
>
> Yes I would like six smart socket sets.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Apr 8, 2019, at 12:30, Bill Notfaded  wrote:
>
> If Thomas doesn't want the other 6 I'll take them. :^}
>
> On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 9:25:48 AM UTC-7, Bill Notfaded wrote:
>
> I'm in for 6 smartsockets (one set)... that way Thomas can have a set of 6
> as well.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Bill
>
> On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 8:58:16 AM UTC-7, M1 wrote:
>
> Ok, I’ve finally finished ordering all the parts.  Coming from various
> sources, so, not sure when complete.
>
> Little more spendy than I thought, but that’s life.
>
>
>
> I will have enough boards for 40 exactly; although extra parts on
> everything else.  Everything from USA shipping except the socket pins which
> have an ETA of May 7th (likely sooner, I hope).
>
>
>
> Of the 40 kits, I want 24 (for my tubes).   So, 16 will be available.
>
> Noting that Bill and Thomas have first shot when I finalize costs.
>
>
>
> PS.  Yes, I have the .hex from the yahoo forum and source, pics, etc.
>
> You said two sets (does that mean 2 kits or 2 sets of xyz kits)
>
>
>
> Michail Wilson
>
> 206-920-6312
>
>
>
>
>
> neoni...@googlegroups.com; on behalf of; Thomas Kummer [
> tmkumm...@gmail.com]
>
>
>
> Put me down for one kit too please.
>
> Thank you, Michail
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Bill Notfaded
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 4, 2019 7:07 PM
> *To:* neoni...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] B-5971 Smartsocket / Driver
>
>
>
> I'm in put me down for two sets at least.  Did you get the PIC hex too?
> This is exciting stuff!  Thanks Michail!
>
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2019, 7:03 PM Michail Wilson  wrote:
>
> I was able to get the files from Yahoo Groups.
>
> I've decided to go about putting the kits together myself since I will
> have about 24 tubes.
>
> So, I just ordered 40 sets of the boards to have extras in case anyone
> wants kits.
>
> Michail
> .
>
> --
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Re: [neonixie-l] B-5971 Smartsocket / Driver

[Bill Notfaded]

That's so awesome I was just thinking about it today.  That guy has two
more sets still haven't sold for 369$. Serves him right lol.  I wish I'd
talked to you more before I might have tried to get two sets for 500 or
something too.

B

On Wed, Apr 17, 2019, 9:29 PM Michail Wilson  wrote:

> Bill / Thomas,
>
>
>
> I have most of the parts already.
>
> The circuit boards and the socket pins are left.
>
>
>
> The boards tracking is:
>
>
> https://www.ups.com/track?loc=en_US=1ZF51V700296347533=WT/trackdetails
>
>
>
> The problem is that the pins will take a long time (coming from Russia).
>
> *RO184731146RU*  At least it shows it is on the way.  J
>
>
>
> I am out of state until the 22nd.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Michail
>
>
>
> *From:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Thomas Kummer
> *Sent:* Monday, April 8, 2019 12:44 PM
> *To:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] B-5971 Smartsocket / Driver
>
>
>
> I want to run a 6 digit clock. lol
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Apr 8, 2019, at 13:43, Thomas Kummer  wrote:
>
> Yes I would like six smart socket sets.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Apr 8, 2019, at 12:30, Bill Notfaded  wrote:
>
> If Thomas doesn't want the other 6 I'll take them. :^}
>
> On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 9:25:48 AM UTC-7, Bill Notfaded wrote:
>
> I'm in for 6 smartsockets (one set)... that way Thomas can have a set of 6
> as well.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Bill
>
> On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 8:58:16 AM UTC-7, M1 wrote:
>
> Ok, I’ve finally finished ordering all the parts.  Coming from various
> sources, so, not sure when complete.
>
> Little more spendy than I thought, but that’s life.
>
>
>
> I will have enough boards for 40 exactly; although extra parts on
> everything else.  Everything from USA shipping except the socket pins which
> have an ETA of May 7th (likely sooner, I hope).
>
>
>
> Of the 40 kits, I want 24 (for my tubes).   So, 16 will be available.
>
> Noting that Bill and Thomas have first shot when I finalize costs.
>
>
>
> PS.  Yes, I have the .hex from the yahoo forum and source, pics, etc.
>
> You said two sets (does that mean 2 kits or 2 sets of xyz kits)
>
>
>
> Michail Wilson
>
> 206-920-6312
>
>
>
>
>
> neoni...@googlegroups.com; on behalf of; Thomas Kummer [
> tmkumm...@gmail.com]
>
>
>
> Put me down for one kit too please.
>
> Thank you, Michail
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Bill Notfaded
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 4, 2019 7:07 PM
> *To:* neoni...@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] B-5971 Smartsocket / Driver
>
>
>
> I'm in put me down for two sets at least.  Did you get the PIC hex too?
> This is exciting stuff!  Thanks Michail!
>
> On Thu, Apr 4, 2019, 7:03 PM Michail Wilson  wrote:
>
> I was able to get the files from Yahoo Groups.
>
> I've decided to go about putting the kits together myself since I will
> have about 24 tubes.
>
> So, I just ordered 40 sets of the boards to have extras in case anyone
> wants kits.
>
> Michail
> .
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "neonixie-l" group.
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> 
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> 

RE: [neonixie-l] B-5971 Smartsocket / Driver

[Michail Wilson]

Bill / Thomas,

 

I have most of the parts already.

The circuit boards and the socket pins are left.

 

The boards tracking is:

https://www.ups.com/track?loc=en_US 

 =1ZF51V700296347533=WT/trackdetails

 

The problem is that the pins will take a long time (coming from Russia).

  RO184731146RU  At least it shows it is on the way.  J

 

I am out of state until the 22nd.

 

 

 

Michail 

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Thomas Kummer
Sent: Monday, April 8, 2019 12:44 PM
To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] B-5971 Smartsocket / Driver

 

I want to run a 6 digit clock. lol 

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 8, 2019, at 13:43, Thomas Kummer  wrote:

Yes I would like six smart socket sets. 

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 8, 2019, at 12:30, Bill Notfaded  wrote:

If Thomas doesn't want the other 6 I'll take them. :^}

On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 9:25:48 AM UTC-7, Bill Notfaded wrote:

I'm in for 6 smartsockets (one set)... that way Thomas can have a set of 6 as 
well.

 

Thanks,

 

Bill

On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 8:58:16 AM UTC-7, M1 wrote:

Ok, I’ve finally finished ordering all the parts.  Coming from various sources, 
so, not sure when complete.

Little more spendy than I thought, but that’s life.

 

I will have enough boards for 40 exactly; although extra parts on everything 
else.  Everything from USA shipping except the socket pins which have an ETA of 
May 7th (likely sooner, I hope).

 

Of the 40 kits, I want 24 (for my tubes).   So, 16 will be available.

Noting that Bill and Thomas have first shot when I finalize costs.

 

PS.  Yes, I have the .hex from the yahoo forum and source, pics, etc.

You said two sets (does that mean 2 kits or 2 sets of xyz kits)

 

Michail Wilson

206-920-6312

 

 

neoni...@googlegroups.com; on behalf of; Thomas Kummer [tmkumm...@gmail.com]

 

Put me down for one kit too please. 

Thank you, Michail 

Sent from my iPhone

 

 

From: neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Bill Notfaded
Sent: Thursday, April 4, 2019 7:07 PM
To: neoni...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] B-5971 Smartsocket / Driver

 

I'm in put me down for two sets at least.  Did you get the PIC hex too?  This 
is exciting stuff!  Thanks Michail!

On Thu, Apr 4, 2019, 7:03 PM Michail Wilson  wrote:

I was able to get the files from Yahoo Groups.

I've decided to go about putting the kits together myself since I will have 
about 24 tubes.

So, I just ordered 40 sets of the boards to have extras in case anyone wants 
kits.

Michail 
.

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RE: [neonixie-l] OT: audio levels

[johnk]

Thank you so much for playing the game Tomasz, and bothering to check the 
calculations.

It can also be done with DC a meter or scope that shows True RMS when DC is 
present. [Check by reading a battery on the AC range.]

You can set up a sine wave that is offset by a DC value. You make a voltage 
waveform that is the same shape as the power waveform that we are talking 
about. Then you measure it.

 

There is a useful electronics website.

https://masteringelectronicsdesign.com/how-to-derive-the-rms-value-of-a-sine-wave-with-a-dc-offset/

On that page he shows the mathematics involved. Notice that a very simple 
formula right at the end/bottom covers what we are doing.

It gives an answer very close to yours too.

 

Regarding audio and perceived loudness: if you ever want to increase that 
impact of the sound without “cheating” by using a compressor, then just record 
to magnetic tape. You could even use a deck that has replay monitor heads 
immediately after the record heads so that it is close to real time.

To get up out of the noise they had to set up magnetic to work in a rather 
non-linear region. It automatically compressed. This was one of the things that 
made full digital audio sound different. They didn’t set out to compress “old” 
audio but it happened anyway.

 

That consistent loudness thing really annoys me too. Unfortunately some of the 
normalising programs cause other problems. Some of the problem is caused by 
people using the scope view in their digital software. When you have 20dB 
headroom it looks like you are working so far down that you must be in the 
noise. They also think that you are wasting that space. This is where metering 
methods become so important too. And some training/awareness.

 

Thanks to all the Nixie guys for tolerating this OT discussion too.

Regards,

John K

 

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] On 
Behalf Of Tomasz Kowalczyk
Sent: Thursday, 18 April 2019 04:04
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] OT: audio levels

 



W dniu wtorek, 16 kwietnia 2019 15:57:35 UTC+2 użytkownik johnk napisał:

Well, how do I say this Thomas?

It is NOT to be called Watts RMS !

They left the vital word out – it is Watts [RMS derived]. They left out 
“derived”.

 

The RMS volts and RMS amps that you mention when multiplied together produce 
Watts. Just plain Watts.

These Watts are actually the average power of the power waveform that resulted 
from your two sinewaves.

Remember too, that the RMS value of the voltage waveform gives the DC voltage 
that provides the same heating effect. And that is average power.

Gee, I didn’t say that well. I have just spent a while fighting with Win 10 and 
drivers for CH340 on Arduino clone boards – I haven’t recovered !

 

You might think that I am nit picking. However you did say this, “RMS power of 
a sine wave is 0,5 times peak power.”

And the power waveform isn’t really a sinewave in the way we mean it. The 
values of interest here lie in the area under the curve (notice it is twice the 
frequency too?]. In a sine wave [like the Voltage one]  the areas of interest 
are the equal sized ‘lobes’ above and below the zero line. 

I invite you to draw out the two sinewaves [Volts and Current] and the 
resulting power waveform and perform an actual root-mean-square calculation on 
it to prove your statement.  [Graphically is more reliable because it shows the 
workings J  ]

Spoiler: you will NOT get 0.5 x pk as the answer.

 

The VERY rough sketch that I sent Charles shows what I mean about the average 
value [the green bit tipped over into the trough].

(Rough because I was on a new touch screen laptop and NOT in tablet mode. I was 
experimenting; made it tricky to draw with the pen. )

 

I know that you know what you mean when you refer to amplifiers this way, but 
you could add the extra word and be ‘more right’  J

Thanks for nibbling on the hook. But, I really do wish that someone had been 
willing to do the graphical maths thing. Someone must want to prove me wrong, 
surely.

 

John Kaesehagen

Australia

 

 

OK, I see your point. The right way to spell power is just watts (V RMS * I RMS 
= W)
I've ran a little excel excercise - I calculated voltage and current with peak 
value equal to sqrt(2) for 360 points of a sine wave. If I run RMS calculation 
(from definition) on voltage or current, it is equal to 1 (so one times the 
other is 1W), but running it on voltage*current gives a value of about 1,22W 
RMS. 
I admit this is a mistake to use W RMS.

 

When it comes to Loudness War - I am also for dynamic range, but mostly, I am 
for consistent loudness between digital files, so I don't have to change volume 
for each track. Fortunately, loudness war is being actively fought against - as 
far as I know, Spotify attenuates a track if it is too loud, which eliminates 
the whole reason songs were overcompressed. So now those tracks are left with 
their poor dynamic range, but being no 

[neonixie-l] Nixie clock with the CT7001/FCM7001 chip?

[Bill Notfaded]

It'd be neat to find some MM5314N lying around for a decent price too... Some 
neat old chips.  I found some but they're like 20$ each.

Bill

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[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie clock with the CT7001/FCM7001 chip?

[Bill Notfaded]

Any you want to part with lmk?

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[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie clock with the CT7001/FCM7001 chip?

[Bill Notfaded]

And you wanna part with dm me?

Bill

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[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie clock with the CT7001/FCM7001 chip?

[Bill Notfaded]

They'd also work great with these new 7 segment Nixie a couple of us just got.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie clock with the CT7001/FCM7001 chip?

[Bill Notfaded]

These ics work great with numitron tubes.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Interesting tubes in eBay 7 segment nixies MG-17G

[Bill Notfaded]

I'm excited about these unique tubes.  These don't have the grid in front so 
they're really brighter than the F tubes are.

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[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie clock with the CT7001/FCM7001 chip?

[Dekatron42]

Thanks, I hadn't seen that datasheet, that helps a lot as I've only got a 
two page datasheet before and a few simple (poor) circuit diagrams.

I was thinking of using a three 74LS138 and one and gate to decode the 
7-segment to 10 outputs and then ten MPSA42s, or the 74C915 (a complete 
7-segment to BCD decoder) and a 74141.

I did recently buy and old Nixie clock with the MM5311N, the prototype that 
Åke Holm (a tube collector in Sweden, callsign SM5CBW) made in the 70s for 
the Swedish magazine Radio & Television, link here: 
http://www.sm5cbw.se/sm5cbw/rt/7212.htm and now when I got these FCM7001 I 
thought of making a few more Nixie clocks with a similar design - maybe 
I'll be able to pull that off now with the datasheet you linked to.

/Martin

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[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie clock with the CT7001/FCM7001 chip?

[Tomasz Kowalczyk]

W dniu środa, 17 kwietnia 2019 20:11:41 UTC+2 użytkownik Dekatron42 napisał:
>
> I've come across a few of the CT7001/FCM7001 clock chips which were 
> designed to be used with LED displays and I've been looking for a Nixie 
> clock design with this chip but I haven't found any yet - does anyone here 
> know about such a circuit diagram?
>
> /Martin
>

I think only Panaplex tubes (or the very rare 7-segment round tubes)  would 
be usable. This chip has 7-segment display integrated in it, decoding it to 
10 open collector/drain driver would require a large logic circuit or an 
Arduino or other uC. But then using this chip would make little to no sense.
The CT7002 has BCD output, which would make it much easier. 

So, shortly speaking - for driving normal nixie tubes you need to get 
CT7002 to avoid complications.
But if you decide to go 7-segment, there is few schematics in this 
datasheet of how to drive plasma displays (panaplex) or fluorescent (VFD). 
https://proaudiodesignforum.com/images/pdf/CT7001_Cal-Tex_Clock_IC.pdf
You could also go for the old type LEDs - low brightness, but beautiful 
shade of red - something like displays from this page:
http://www.industrialalchemy.org/tubepage.php?item=33=0

Funny thing is it uses negative supply! So crossing this with any other 
logic (for example, 74141 for CT7002) will require careful designing...

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Re: [neonixie-l] OT: audio levels

[Tomasz Kowalczyk]

W dniu wtorek, 16 kwietnia 2019 15:57:35 UTC+2 użytkownik johnk napisał:
>
> Well, how do I say this Thomas?
>
> It is NOT to be called Watts RMS !
>
> They left the vital word out – it is Watts [RMS derived]. They left out 
> “derived”.
>
>  
>
> The RMS volts and RMS amps that you mention when multiplied together 
> produce Watts. Just plain Watts.
>
> These Watts are actually the average power of the power waveform that 
> resulted from your two sinewaves.
>
> Remember too, that the RMS value of the voltage waveform gives the DC 
> voltage that provides the same heating effect. And that is average power.
>
> Gee, I didn’t say that well. I have just spent a while fighting with Win 
> 10 and drivers for CH340 on Arduino clone boards – I haven’t recovered !
>
>  
>
> You might think that I am nit picking. However you did say this, “RMS 
> power of a sine wave is 0,5 times peak power.”
>
> And the power waveform isn’t really a sinewave in the way we mean it. The 
> values of interest here lie in the area under the curve (notice it is twice 
> the frequency too?]. In a sine wave [like the Voltage one]  the areas of 
> interest are the equal sized ‘lobes’ above and below the zero line. 
>
> I invite you to draw out the two sinewaves [Volts and Current] and the 
> resulting power waveform and perform an actual root-mean-square calculation 
> on it to prove your statement.  [Graphically is more reliable because it 
> shows the workings J  ]
>
> Spoiler: you will NOT get 0.5 x pk as the answer.
>
>  
>
> The VERY rough sketch that I sent Charles shows what I mean about the 
> average value [the green bit tipped over into the trough].
>
> (Rough because I was on a new touch screen laptop and NOT in tablet mode. 
> I was experimenting; made it tricky to draw with the pen. )
>
>  
>
> I know that you know what you mean when you refer to amplifiers this way, 
> but you could add the extra word and be ‘more right’  J
>
> Thanks for nibbling on the hook. But, I really do wish that someone had 
> been willing to do the graphical maths thing. Someone must want to prove me 
> wrong, surely.
>
>  
>
> John Kaesehagen
>
> Australia
>
>  
>
>  
>
OK, I see your point. The right way to spell power is just watts (V RMS * I 
RMS = W)
I've ran a little excel excercise - I calculated voltage and current with 
peak value equal to sqrt(2) for 360 points of a sine wave. If I run RMS 
calculation (from definition) on voltage or current, it is equal to 1 (so 
one times the other is 1W), but running it on voltage*current gives a value 
of about 1,22W RMS. 
I admit this is a mistake to use W RMS.

When it comes to Loudness War - I am also for dynamic range, but mostly, I 
am for consistent loudness between digital files, so I don't have to change 
volume for each track. Fortunately, loudness war is being actively fought 
against - as far as I know, Spotify attenuates a track if it is too loud, 
which eliminates the whole reason songs were overcompressed. So now those 
tracks are left with their poor dynamic range, but being no louder than 
slightly compressed or not compressed at all songs.
I'm currently building a vacuum tube amplifier, which works greatly with 
uncompressed tracks - it compresses them itself via soft clipping! That's 
the reason 15-20W tube amp can sound like 50W solid state, vocals and most 
instruments can stay at the same SPL, but vacuum tube amp will compress the 
short spikes from percussion or other instrument instead of grossly 
distorting them. Solid state needs that power headroom to prevent going 
into clipping, because you can easily hear it and it isn't pleasurable.
Of course, I could also just build a simple Gainclone amp with higher 
output power for more headroom... but high voltage is fun!

Coming back on topic of audio signal level - I think that if I worked in 
proffesional audio, all the different standards would make more sense to 
me. But being a hobbyist who just wants to build an amp, it is straight up 
annoying.

By the way - you can keep calling me Thomas. It is practically the same 
name. Also when I was a kid I used to live in USA for over a year, so I was 
called Thomas a lot in my life :) 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Interesting tubes in eBay 7 segment nixies MG-17G

[Tyler Bourne]

I bought a set.

On Tuesday, April 16, 2019 at 12:11:02 AM UTC-4, Bill Notfaded wrote:
>
> I picked up a couple sets just because they're so unique.  I hope they 
> look as neat as I think they might.  Pictures just don't always do justice. 
> Both MG-17F and G look different.
>
> Bill
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Nixie-Tube-Elfin-Rodan-MG-17G-Made-in-Japan-6-pcs-Lot/303127500793
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Nixie clock with the CT7001/FCM7001 chip?

[Dekatron42]

I've come across a few of the CT7001/FCM7001 clock chips which were 
designed to be used with LED displays and I've been looking for a Nixie 
clock design with this chip but I haven't found any yet - does anyone here 
know about such a circuit diagram?

/Martin

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[neonixie-l] Re: While we're talking 7971's, I have a 4LW clock question

[petehand]

I suspect it's the tubes. As they get older they take a little longer to 
ionize when they've been off for a while. Shoot, some that I've bought in 
Ebay took a day before they would strike. Once they're running, although it 
is a multiplexed design there are always residual ions in the tube during 
the dark period, and often for hours afterward, so it should come up 
instantly after a short break.

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 6:37:51 PM UTC-7, Terry S wrote:
>
> I have an early Pete Hand 4LW clock using B7971s. Since day 1, tube # 2 
> has been slightly slow to energize when the IR sensor wakes the clock up. 
> No big deal, I just noticed it, always tube # 2. Maybe a second late at the 
> most. Always figured it was the tube.
>
> Now as of this week, it's tube #3 ! --   Tube #2 lights when it 
> should. WTF??
>
> Pete -- I think you read the group -- any ideas? Just a weird curiosity, 
> nothing else.
>
> Terry
>

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