Re: [neonixie-l] Re: nixie watch project

[Kevin A.]

Thank you!

Wireless charging is a possibility. If I can get this first revision
working as intended then im sure there will be plenty of feature creep to
come :)

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 4:04 PM Dekatron42  wrote:

> Looks very nice!
>
> Will you include wireless charging?
>
> /Martin
>
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> .
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Re: [neonixie-l] NIMO

[Dekatron42]

Have you got a Plasma ball to hold it to? If air has entered in you might 
see a very faint blueish glow if you turn off the surrounding light.

What does the getter flash look like, like a mirror or is it gone 
completely, or has it gone white?

I have seen a few Nixies where the Anode wire has come lose at a welding 
spot, can you see if something similar has happened to your Nimo with any 
of the wires or the Anode connection - if so you might smack it gently 
against your palm to see if the wire reconnects enough for it to work again?

/Martin

On Saturday, 3 October 2020 23:35:35 UTC+2, jörg wrote:
>
> Hi Gregebert, yes, I've checked the tube several times. The cold 
> resistance is about 2,1 ohm, which is identical to the other tubes.
> Just swapped the tube with a running one on the same driver board. Sadly, 
> no function at all. Under a microscope, no crack is visible.
>
> I've made a short video to show the difference between a neon-nixie and a 
> nimo crt-tube and a neodym magnet (very small one.)
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJytnrvTy3Q
>
> gregebert schrieb am Freitag, 2. Oktober 2020 um 19:25:40 UTC+2:
>
>> Jorg - Regarding the dead tube, have you compared the filament resistance 
>> of the bad tube to the others ?
>>
>> NIMO tubes have 2 parallel filaments, so if one is open, the resistance 
>> will be TWICE the value of a good tube.
>> I think the cold resistance is around 3 ohms.
>>
>> If 1 filament is out, you can still get 5 numerals to work.
>>
>> I would be surprised if both filaments are burned-out, unless someone put 
>> way too much voltage on it, or the tube is cracked around the pins.
>>
>> If the filaments are OK, power-up the tube and make sure you get around 
>> 180mA of current.
>> Then try varying the voltage between the filament and the logic driving 
>> the grids. If a grid is about 6 V more positive than the filament, you 
>> should get a numeral to turn on.
>>
>> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 1:44:20 PM UTC-7 jörg wrote:
>>
>>> Short update of my nimo project.
>>> I've got 5 tubes running. The sixt is unfortunately DOA.
>>> The tubes filaments are driven with three power supplies, with soft 
>>> start IC (load switch).
>>> So the filament gets started very smooth.
>>> I've made some experiments with multiplexing the tubes. 
>>> Which work nice, using the method described in the manual. The bias 
>>> voltage is changed for every tube, that should be on/off.
>>> In the actual approch, I'm using direct driving the tubes via 74HC595 
>>> shift registers. Got a plenty of problems at the beginning.
>>> The power and signal lines for the 595 were messed with switching noise. 
>>> Some caps did the trick.
>>> Really nice to view the working tubes.
>>>
>>> Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbwfZhYhnlo
>>>
>>> jörg schrieb am Mittwoch, 15. Juli 2020 um 18:01:18 UTC+2:
>>>
 I‘m using Eagle to layout. 
 It takes time for me to feel comfortable with it. 
 And Fusion360. 



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Re: [neonixie-l] NIMO

[jörg]

Hi Gregebert, yes, I've checked the tube several times. The cold resistance 
is about 2,1 ohm, which is identical to the other tubes.
Just swapped the tube with a running one on the same driver board. Sadly, 
no function at all. Under a microscope, no crack is visible.

I've made a short video to show the difference between a neon-nixie and a 
nimo crt-tube and a neodym magnet (very small one.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJytnrvTy3Q

gregebert schrieb am Freitag, 2. Oktober 2020 um 19:25:40 UTC+2:

> Jorg - Regarding the dead tube, have you compared the filament resistance 
> of the bad tube to the others ?
>
> NIMO tubes have 2 parallel filaments, so if one is open, the resistance 
> will be TWICE the value of a good tube.
> I think the cold resistance is around 3 ohms.
>
> If 1 filament is out, you can still get 5 numerals to work.
>
> I would be surprised if both filaments are burned-out, unless someone put 
> way too much voltage on it, or the tube is cracked around the pins.
>
> If the filaments are OK, power-up the tube and make sure you get around 
> 180mA of current.
> Then try varying the voltage between the filament and the logic driving 
> the grids. If a grid is about 6 V more positive than the filament, you 
> should get a numeral to turn on.
>
> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 1:44:20 PM UTC-7 jörg wrote:
>
>> Short update of my nimo project.
>> I've got 5 tubes running. The sixt is unfortunately DOA.
>> The tubes filaments are driven with three power supplies, with soft start 
>> IC (load switch).
>> So the filament gets started very smooth.
>> I've made some experiments with multiplexing the tubes. 
>> Which work nice, using the method described in the manual. The bias 
>> voltage is changed for every tube, that should be on/off.
>> In the actual approch, I'm using direct driving the tubes via 74HC595 
>> shift registers. Got a plenty of problems at the beginning.
>> The power and signal lines for the 595 were messed with switching noise. 
>> Some caps did the trick.
>> Really nice to view the working tubes.
>>
>> Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbwfZhYhnlo
>>
>> jörg schrieb am Mittwoch, 15. Juli 2020 um 18:01:18 UTC+2:
>>
>>> I‘m using Eagle to layout. 
>>> It takes time for me to feel comfortable with it. 
>>> And Fusion360. 
>>>
>>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: nixie watch project

[Dekatron42]

Looks very nice!

Will you include wireless charging?

/Martin

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: nixie watch project

[Kevin A.]

Thank you David! It is indeed a lot of work for one person, as i'm sure you
know. This project is heavily inspired by the successful Cathode Corner
watch!

The software features will be focused heavily around power saving when the
display is off, in addition to using the bluetooth radio as the primary
user interface.

As you've mentioned, the biggest challenge with a nixie tube display is the
ability to convey complex information. That is why I've opted to use the
nordic bluetooth SoC; the menu system can be built around a nice GUI on a
smartphone or similar device, and all of the configuration settings can be
broadcasted to the watch over bluetooth. The user can change options
related to wakeup modes, display effects (both nixies and RGB leds), touch
button setup, power management, or view battery status.

I have a few modes of operation in mind. In order to save power as much as
possible, the power for 3V3 logic devices can be switched on and off using
IO from the MCU. The 5V0 devices, supplied by the main 2 amp 5V boost
(TPS61230DRCT) which powers the HV supply, LEDs, and logic level shifter,
can be shut down by the mcu when the display is not active.

It will be strongly encouraged to use the accelerometer to wake up the
device. The ADXL362 is a programmable accelerometer that features a 270 nA
motion activated wake-up mode. Using this, nearly all of the other
peripherals can be shut off, and the 52832 can be put into a "system off"
mode that consumes 300 nA with no ram retention, waiting to wake up from
the accelerometer input. If the user instead chooses to use the capacitive
touch to wake up, the CAP1293 controller has a 50 uA standby mode which
monitors 1 of the 3 capacitive touch inputs. This means that current
consumption is 185 times higher than using the ADXL362 and turning the
CAP1293 off. The user will have a choice to use both or either as a wakeup
and display trigger.

As far as information to be displayed on the nixies themselves, I wanted to
include options for both time (12/24 hr), date, battery status, and
possibly an "acknowledge" display routine whenever the user sends a
wireless command from a connected bluetooth device.

For the decimal points, I planned to use them more for visual effect when
displaying time. I want to include a few display effect options in the soft
menu, such as crossfading, slot machine effects, and using the decimal
points as a seconds counter (either blinking, or in other modes such as a
"ping-pong" effect where it will bounce or scroll continuously across the
tubes). A lot of what I can and cannot include will be limited to the 512k
flash on the 52832. Bluetooth stacks use up a lot of memory fast, but
hopefully using the Zephyr RTOS (which is supposed to be optimized for
resource constrained devices), I can manage to get the most out of the
internal storage.

I've already identified a few mistakes on the rev1 board, but I have a lot
of firmware development challenges I can still tackle regardless. The
firmware is shaping up to be even more monumental of a task than the
hardware design.

On Sat, Oct 3, 2020 at 1:08 PM David Forbes  wrote:

> Kevin,
>
> That's quite a project! It has a lot of processing power. I can tell that
> you've put a lot of thought into the design.
> I'm curious about the plans for software and features, since you mentioned
> that you haven't written any of it yet.
> The big limiting factor of Nixie tubes in a feature-laden device, as I see
> it, is the limited display ability. Not having any letters makes it hard to
> convey information. The decimal points are better than nothing, but require
> knowledge of what they're indicating.
> That's why my Cathode Corner Nixie watches only display the time.
> Please keep us posted on your progress.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2020, 12:01 PM Kevin A. 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Just posted my first update with the initial hardware build, schematics,
>> and more pictures here:
>>
>>
>> https://neonkev.com/2020/10/02/la-piece-de-resistance-nixie-tube-smart-watch/
>>
>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: nixie watch project

[Kevin A.]

Hi newxito,

Ive been able to get the CJ51-43AL to produce high voltage, but only found
that about 5ma @ 170 volts was feasible from a 5 volt input (using the
LT-3757afe controller at a swithcing frequency of 100 KHz). Beyond that,
the transformer would indeed go into saturation and get very hot.

If you intend to use the CJ51-43AL for more than 5ma of high voltage, then
cranking up the input voltage is the only way. The part just isn't capable
of more output, especially at lower input voltages where the primary
current needs to be higher for any given power output.



On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 6:33 PM newxito  wrote:

>
> 295/5000
> Great project!
> Have you had any success building a power supply with the CJ5143? I
> completely failed trying to build a 15x15mm PSU with this transformer. I
> have got the 170V but only about 4mA and it wasn't really stable. But to be
> honest, I haven't tried to improve it at all.
>
> Kevin A. schrieb am Freitag, 2. Oktober 2020 um 21:01:42 UTC+2:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Just posted my first update with the initial hardware build, schematics,
>> and more pictures here:
>>
>>
>> https://neonkev.com/2020/10/02/la-piece-de-resistance-nixie-tube-smart-watch/
>>
>> More to come!
>>
>> On Thursday, August 27, 2020 at 10:06:13 PM UTC-4 Kevin A. wrote:
>>
>>> Recently started up a longtime nixie project I've had in mind. Quite
>>> ambitious (for me at least), and something that hasn't quite been done
>>> before to my knowledge. This is a 4 tube, bluetooth enabled (nrf52832 mcu),
>>> direct drive (not multiplexed) watch with burroughs b5755r nixies that I'm
>>> currently getting out of my head and onto paper. It will include features
>>> such as capacitive touch buttons, programmable accelerometer, automatic
>>> light sensor, removable 14500 lithium battery, and smartphone app for all
>>> sorts of display effects and options. No LED backlights on this one; its
>>> all about the neon!
>>>
>>> It's nowhere near complete; the design currently exists in the digital
>>> domain. I'm closing in on the first "complete" revision in the next few
>>> weeks. Current dimensions are 59mm square by 28mm deep. Its quite large to
>>> be hanging off of the wrist.. but are there really any rules when it comes
>>> to a timepiece as unconventional?
>>>
>>> The software development will also be a tremendous task. Slow and steady
>>> wins the race here!
>>>
>> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: nixie watch project

[David Forbes]

Kevin,

That's quite a project! It has a lot of processing power. I can tell that
you've put a lot of thought into the design.
I'm curious about the plans for software and features, since you mentioned
that you haven't written any of it yet.
The big limiting factor of Nixie tubes in a feature-laden device, as I see
it, is the limited display ability. Not having any letters makes it hard to
convey information. The decimal points are better than nothing, but require
knowledge of what they're indicating.
That's why my Cathode Corner Nixie watches only display the time.
Please keep us posted on your progress.



On Fri, Oct 2, 2020, 12:01 PM Kevin A. 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Just posted my first update with the initial hardware build, schematics,
> and more pictures here:
>
>
> https://neonkev.com/2020/10/02/la-piece-de-resistance-nixie-tube-smart-watch/
>
>
>

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Monoscopes - was Re: [neonixie-l] NIMO

[Toby Thain]

On 2020-10-03 10:00 a.m., Robert G. Schaffrath wrote:
> "Those nimo look like tiny CRTs!  If anyone can make them it’s Dalibor!"
> 
> Talk about a niche market. Not only are they infinitely more complex to
> construct than a Nixie tube, the market for them would be even smaller
> than for his Nixie tubes.
> 
> I had commented on the short YouTube video that it would have been
> interesting if the manufacturer has made NIMO's available in other
> colors besides green. Red especially for critical indicators. Consistent
> anode voltages might have been problematic as different phosphors have
> different requirements. I have still seen some tiny 1" round CRT's up
> for sale from time to time. Might have an easier time getting and using
> those with custom logic to draw numerals.

For extra points, use a Monoscope to drive the character image.

http://tubetime.us/index.php/2018/06/

--Toby

> 
> On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-4 martin martin wrote:
> 
> Those nimo look like tiny CRTs!  If anyone can make them it’s Dalibor!
> ...

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Re: [neonixie-l] NIMO

[Max DN]

I recognise those pictures. I was just looking at the earlier today. 
Here: https://www.yoycart.com/Product/565022565965/


Il giorno sabato 3 ottobre 2020 alle 15:43:08 UTC+1 Dekatron42 ha scritto:

> A long time ago I found these photos on the Internet, can't find them now 
> though, however I am not sure if they are fake or true Nimo's.
>
> /Martin
>
> [image: blue.jpg]
>
>
> [image: red.jpg]
>
>
> [image: symbols-green.jpg]
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] NIMO

[Dekatron42]

A long time ago I found these photos on the Internet, can't find them now 
though, however I am not sure if they are fake or true Nimo's.

/Martin

[image: blue.jpg]


[image: red.jpg]


[image: symbols-green.jpg]




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Re: [neonixie-l] NIMO

[Robert G. Schaffrath]

"Those nimo look like tiny CRTs!  If anyone can make them it’s Dalibor!"

Talk about a niche market. Not only are they infinitely more complex to 
construct than a Nixie tube, the market for them would be even smaller than 
for his Nixie tubes.

I had commented on the short YouTube video that it would have been 
interesting if the manufacturer has made NIMO's available in other colors 
besides green. Red especially for critical indicators. Consistent anode 
voltages might have been problematic as different phosphors have different 
requirements. I have still seen some tiny 1" round CRT's up for sale from 
time to time. Might have an easier time getting and using those with custom 
logic to draw numerals.

On Friday, October 2, 2020 at 3:10:56 PM UTC-4 martin martin wrote:

> Those nimo look like tiny CRTs!  If anyone can make them it’s Dalibor!
>
> * Are you following this ?
>
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 10:25 gregebert  wrote:
>
>> Jorg - Regarding the dead tube, have you compared the filament resistance 
>> of the bad tube to the others ?
>>
>> NIMO tubes have 2 parallel filaments, so if one is open, the resistance 
>> will be TWICE the value of a good tube.
>> I think the cold resistance is around 3 ohms.
>>
>> If 1 filament is out, you can still get 5 numerals to work.
>>
>> I would be surprised if both filaments are burned-out, unless someone put 
>> way too much voltage on it, or the tube is cracked around the pins.
>>
>> If the filaments are OK, power-up the tube and make sure you get around 
>> 180mA of current.
>> Then try varying the voltage between the filament and the logic driving 
>> the grids. If a grid is about 6 V more positive than the filament, you 
>> should get a numeral to turn on.
>>
>> On Thursday, October 1, 2020 at 1:44:20 PM UTC-7 jörg wrote:
>>
>>> Short update of my nimo project.
>>> I've got 5 tubes running. The sixt is unfortunately DOA.
>>> The tubes filaments are driven with three power supplies, with soft 
>>> start IC (load switch).
>>> So the filament gets started very smooth.
>>> I've made some experiments with multiplexing the tubes. 
>>> Which work nice, using the method described in the manual. The bias 
>>> voltage is changed for every tube, that should be on/off.
>>> In the actual approch, I'm using direct driving the tubes via 74HC595 
>>> shift registers. Got a plenty of problems at the beginning.
>>> The power and signal lines for the 595 were messed with switching noise. 
>>> Some caps did the trick.
>>> Really nice to view the working tubes.
>>>
>>> Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbwfZhYhnlo
>>>
>>> jörg schrieb am Mittwoch, 15. Juli 2020 um 18:01:18 UTC+2:
>>>
 I‘m using Eagle to layout. 
 It takes time for me to feel comfortable with it. 
 And Fusion360. 

 -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
> mcve...@gmail.com
>

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