Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Any circuit diagrams for Non-Linear Systems digital voltmeters, especially Model 64?

[Robert Norman]

https://youtu.be/9DqZ4nx-8J4?t=1m40s

Rob

> On 21 Apr 2021, at 18:58, Dekatron42  wrote:
> 
> 
> The relays have been sitting inside a separate sound dampened box inside the 
> voltmeter all these years, the box has a very tight fit and the relays also 
> have gold plated contacts for the resistor divider chain, the lamp 
> connections have a very black surface, not like copper at all, more like 
> proper long life telephone relays which sometimes use a silver-palladium mix, 
> or some other silver-mix. All of the resistors in the voltage divider chain 
> are very special types put in colour coded plastic cans on the circuit board, 
> one colour for each stepper relay. The sound dampening box was removed in the 
> photo above as the seller wanted to show the relays, the gold plated contacts 
> and the black ones can be seen in the photo. I've included some more closeup 
> photos here, as well as one with the sound dampening box in place.
> 
> @Petehand: I was also extremely lucky in finding the magazine for sale where 
> your scanned pages were from, so in a while I will have the original magazine 
> too!
> 
> /Martin
> 
>> On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 19:07:31 UTC+2 gregebert wrote:
>> Stepper relays are likely to be a problem. The first clock I made, back in 
>> 1980, was a cannibalized voltmeter that used stepper relays and incandescent 
>> edge-lit numbers. The relays had intermittent connection issues despite many 
>> careful attempts to clean them. I literally abandoned this clock in 2005 
>> when I moved to a different worksite.
>> 
>> Most likely you will need to clean the contacts, coat them with a conducive 
>> grease, and take steps to prevent dust/dirt from collecting on the grease. 
>> TV tuners (remember those ?) were notorious for having the same problem.
>> 
>>> On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 9:19:24 AM UTC-7 Dekatron42 wrote:
>>> Thank you so very much this document, it will be a great help to get it up 
>>> and running properly!
>>> 
>>> I might even do a complete circuit diagram now that I know how most parts 
>>> are hooked up from the article.
>>> 
>>> I'll start by checking all of the electrolytics before I dare to power it 
>>> up, all of those big black canisters are the electrolytic ones. What I 
>>> first thought was a crystal in its crystal oven turns out to be the dual 
>>> zener diodes in the oven.
>>> 
>>> /Martin
>>> 
 On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 17:57:28 UTC+2 petehand wrote:
 I can offer you this, from a 1963 Electronics World magazine. It's not a 
 complete manual or diagram but it does explain the principles.
 
 You're a lucky guy. I greatly covet one of these.
 
> On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 5:31:42 PM UTC-7 Dekatron42 wrote:
> I've been Googling and asking everyone who has turned up for information 
> about a circuit diagram for my recent purchase of a Non-Linear Systems 
> Digital Voltmeter model 64 (stevenjohnson.com and nonlinearsystems.com) 
> without getting a response from anyone so I thought I would ask here if 
> anyone has any circuit diagrams for this model or other similar models.
> 
> It is almost like the Model 481 that seems to be quite common, but it 
> does only have four of the selector switches so there is no automatic 
> polarity indication but a switch on the front to change the plus/minus 
> sign in the display.
> 
> One of the digits is not lighting up at all even though that selector 
> switch is working, otherwise I was told it should work perfectly as the 
> other digits should show the correct measurement. I haven't powered it up 
> myself, the previous owner did, and I'd like to repair it. It wouldn't be 
> complicated to reverse engineer it but getting hold of proper 
> documentation would be very welcome.
> 
> /Martin
> 
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> 
> 
> 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Any circuit diagrams for Non-Linear Systems digital voltmeters, especially Model 64?

[petehand]

I had a few of those stepper switches at one time. They found a use in a 
few other things besides DVMs, including some slot machines I worked on. 
Until I found that article I linked above, though, I could never understand 
why they were always ELEVEN POSITIONS (count 'em).
Two different models - two different manufacturers.
[image: stepper1.jpg][image: stepper2.jpg]

On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 10:07:31 AM UTC-7 gregebert wrote:

> Stepper relays are likely to be a problem. The first clock I made, back in 
> 1980, was a cannibalized voltmeter that used stepper relays and 
> incandescent edge-lit numbers. The relays had intermittent connection 
> issues despite many careful attempts to clean them. I literally abandoned 
> this clock in 2005 when I moved to a different worksite.
>
> Most likely you will need to clean the contacts, coat them with a 
> conducive grease, and take steps to prevent dust/dirt from collecting on 
> the grease. TV tuners (remember those ?) were notorious for having the same 
> problem.
>
>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Any circuit diagrams for Non-Linear Systems digital voltmeters, especially Model 64?

[gregebert]

Stepper relays are likely to be a problem. The first clock I made, back in 
1980, was a cannibalized voltmeter that used stepper relays and 
incandescent edge-lit numbers. The relays had intermittent connection 
issues despite many careful attempts to clean them. I literally abandoned 
this clock in 2005 when I moved to a different worksite.

Most likely you will need to clean the contacts, coat them with a conducive 
grease, and take steps to prevent dust/dirt from collecting on the grease. 
TV tuners (remember those ?) were notorious for having the same problem.

On Wednesday, April 21, 2021 at 9:19:24 AM UTC-7 Dekatron42 wrote:

> Thank you so very much this document, it will be a great help to get it up 
> and running properly!
>
> I might even do a complete circuit diagram now that I know how most parts 
> are hooked up from the article.
>
> I'll start by checking all of the electrolytics before I dare to power it 
> up, all of those big black canisters are the electrolytic ones. What I 
> first thought was a crystal in its crystal oven turns out to be the dual 
> zener diodes in the oven.
>
> /Martin
>
> On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 17:57:28 UTC+2 petehand wrote:
>
>> I can offer you this, from a 1963 Electronics World magazine. It's not a 
>> complete manual or diagram but it does explain the principles.
>>
>> You're a lucky guy. I greatly covet one of these.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 5:31:42 PM UTC-7 Dekatron42 wrote:
>>
>>> I've been Googling and asking everyone who has turned up for information 
>>> about a circuit diagram for my recent purchase of a Non-Linear Systems 
>>> Digital Voltmeter model 64 (stevenjohnson.com and nonlinearsystems.com) 
>>> without getting a response from anyone so I thought I would ask here if 
>>> anyone has any circuit diagrams for this model or other similar models.
>>>
>>> It is almost like the Model 481 that seems to be quite common, but it 
>>> does only have four of the selector switches so there is no automatic 
>>> polarity indication but a switch on the front to change the plus/minus sign 
>>> in the display.
>>>
>>> One of the digits is not lighting up at all even though that selector 
>>> switch is working, otherwise I was told it should work perfectly as the 
>>> other digits should show the correct measurement. I haven't powered it up 
>>> myself, the previous owner did, and I'd like to repair it. It wouldn't be 
>>> complicated to reverse engineer it but getting hold of proper documentation 
>>> would be very welcome.
>>>
>>> /Martin
>>>
>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Any circuit diagrams for Non-Linear Systems digital voltmeters, especially Model 64?

[Dekatron42]

Thank you so very much this document, it will be a great help to get it up 
and running properly!

I might even do a complete circuit diagram now that I know how most parts 
are hooked up from the article.

I'll start by checking all of the electrolytics before I dare to power it 
up, all of those big black canisters are the electrolytic ones. What I 
first thought was a crystal in its crystal oven turns out to be the dual 
zener diodes in the oven.

/Martin

On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 17:57:28 UTC+2 petehand wrote:

> I can offer you this, from a 1963 Electronics World magazine. It's not a 
> complete manual or diagram but it does explain the principles.
>
> You're a lucky guy. I greatly covet one of these.
>
> On Tuesday, April 20, 2021 at 5:31:42 PM UTC-7 Dekatron42 wrote:
>
>> I've been Googling and asking everyone who has turned up for information 
>> about a circuit diagram for my recent purchase of a Non-Linear Systems 
>> Digital Voltmeter model 64 (stevenjohnson.com and nonlinearsystems.com) 
>> without getting a response from anyone so I thought I would ask here if 
>> anyone has any circuit diagrams for this model or other similar models.
>>
>> It is almost like the Model 481 that seems to be quite common, but it 
>> does only have four of the selector switches so there is no automatic 
>> polarity indication but a switch on the front to change the plus/minus sign 
>> in the display.
>>
>> One of the digits is not lighting up at all even though that selector 
>> switch is working, otherwise I was told it should work perfectly as the 
>> other digits should show the correct measurement. I haven't powered it up 
>> myself, the previous owner did, and I'd like to repair it. It wouldn't be 
>> complicated to reverse engineer it but getting hold of proper documentation 
>> would be very welcome.
>>
>> /Martin
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Not Neon (again!) - VFD 40 x 2 display

[Richard Scales]

Thank you - I managed to sort out GND and +V (though not before converting 
one of the displays to brick mode) - the rest I'll get from the Max 232 - 
thank you very much for the tip.

WRRT the bricked display - the 5V and 35V supplies to be display seem OK, I 
must have offended some other part!

 - Richard


On Wednesday, 21 April 2021 at 10:31:23 UTC+1 zapro wrote:

> That's a bog standard POS customer display. It's powered from 12 or 24V 
> and talks standard RS232 comms. Usually 9600 bps. 
>
> Follow the lines from the connector to thr Max232 level shifter to see 
> what's what. 
>
> // Per. 
>
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 09:46 Richard Scales  wrote:
>
>> Might anyone be able to point me to some information regarding a VFD 
>> display that was used in a Point of Sale system?
>> The board is labelled "FT-030514" and additional research has come up 
>> with "FT-030514 VFD Customer Display Board T115089".
>> I am specifically looking for details of the 4 wire connections to the 
>> RJ45 connector. THse have to be GND, +V, Data and possibly a handshake 
>> signal.
>> Can anyone point me in the right direction?
>> - Richard
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Not Neon (again!) - VFD 40 x 2 display

[Per Jensen]

That's a bog standard POS customer display. It's powered from 12 or 24V and
talks standard RS232 comms. Usually 9600 bps.

Follow the lines from the connector to thr Max232 level shifter to see
what's what.

// Per.

On Wed, Apr 21, 2021, 09:46 Richard Scales  wrote:

> Might anyone be able to point me to some information regarding a VFD
> display that was used in a Point of Sale system?
> The board is labelled "FT-030514" and additional research has come up with
> "FT-030514 VFD Customer Display Board T115089".
> I am specifically looking for details of the 4 wire connections to the
> RJ45 connector. THse have to be GND, +V, Data and possibly a handshake
> signal.
> Can anyone point me in the right direction?
> - Richard
>
> --
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> "neonixie-l" group.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

David!

I was just taking a look at your Nixie watch diagram, what is the function
on the resistor R11 = 510K on the Crystal circuit of the pic.

For getting better readings on the output oscillator?

Thanks a lot.



El lun, 19 abr 2021 a las 19:26, David Forbes ()
escribió:

> My Nixie watches have a variable 5-30pF capacitor on the crystal so that I
> can adjust the oscillator to exactly 32768 Hz. You could use a different
> value depending on your crystal characteristics. I use an old Hewlett
> Packard universal frequency counter, running in time period averaging mode,
> measuring the time period of 10,000 cycles of the oscillator.
> I connect an oscilloscope probe to the oscillator output pin on the PIC
> computer to achieve minimum loading of the crystal circuit. I have to
> adjust it to run a bit slow with the probe connected, to get proper
> timekeeping when the probe is removed.
> I can adjust it to within one second per week using this technique. I've
> done this on 2000 Nixie watches by now, so it works.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 19, 2021, 1:23 AM MrThe50sanchez 
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Guys!
>>
>> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>>
>> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of
>> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>>
>> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I
>> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to
>> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF,
>> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and
>> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours,
>> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the
>> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less.
>>
>> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter?
>> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install
>> on my watch?
>>
>>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's
>>
>> --
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>> "neonixie-l" group.
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>> 
>> .
>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP

[MrThe50sanchez]

Thank's a lot Bill,


I'm gonna take a really good look at all the info you provide and will make
a really good accurate watch.



El mar, 20 abr 2021 a las 19:42, Bill van Dijk ()
escribió:

> Without knowing your exact design I cannot recommend a specific xtal. For
> instance, PIC processors recommend a xtal with a load capacity of about
> 12pF, while other designs are optimized for different xtals. Often the
> devise data sheet will give you a short list of recommended xtals which
> have been tested by the chip designer. The main thing is that for critical
> applications (such as a time keeping devise) always get a good brand name
> item with full specifications. Often xtals used for running a program are
> not critical, so there you can sometimes get away with something cheap; as
> long as it runs, and is close. I am a great proponent of recycling, but
> saving 32kHz clock xtals is not worth the trouble. Xtals are complicated;
> there are different cuts and styles, all specific to particular
> applications.
>
>
>
> There is a great app note from Microchip worth reading:
>
> http://ww1.microchip.com/downloads/en/appnotes/00949a.pdf
>
>
>
> Even Wikipedia has a decent chapter on xtals:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_oscillator
>
>
>
> Lots of other good information sources on the interweb.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Bill
>
>
>
> *From:* neonixie-l@googlegroups.com [mailto:neonixie-l@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *MrThe50sanchez
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 20, 2021 12:22 PM
> *To:* neonixie-l 
> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP
>
>
>
> Hello Bill,
>
>
>
> Thanks a lot for your answer and your knoledge,
>
>
>
> I will do a chart with different capacitors values and I will see how the
> time delay get's. I'm using two capacitor to ich leg of the cristal.
>
>
>
> as you say, my cristal is not that good, do you recommend a cristal in
> specific?
>
>
>
> thanks a lot!
>
>
>
> El lunes, 19 de abril de 2021 a las 14:34:49 UTC+2, Bill van Dijk escribió:
>
> If you are still slow with the 10pF, a 12pF is not going to do it. The
> relationship between the crystal and load capacitor is critical, and it is
> therefore a mystery to me that so many (of the cheaper) are sold without
> the specifications. Anyway, if yours is a cheap Chinese crystal, try some
> other ones, perhaps you just got a bad one. Generally I always like to get
> a good brand name crystal. If you want to play with the one you have, try
> something lower yet, 8 or 7pF.
>
>
>
> In general terms, and within limits, larger cap slows it down, smaller cap
> speeds it up. Sometimes (if you use 2 caps) using a slightly different cap
> on one leg of the crystal can make a difference in the final frequency.
>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> *From:* neoni...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com
> ] *On Behalf Of *MrThe50sanchez
> *Sent:* Monday, April 19, 2021 4:23 AM
> *To:* neonixie-l 
> *Subject:* [neonixie-l] CRISTAL + CAPACITOR = TIME DELAY HELP
>
>
>
> Hello Guys!
>
>
>
> I have a nice question to ask you guys if you can give me some help.
>
>
>
> I builded a Nixie watch, It works good, but I'm having a little bit of
> time delay, 1* min within 6 hours. *
>
>
>
> At the *first time,* I had 6 min delay for 6 hours aproximately. I
> investigated the relation of the cristal and the capacitors you need to
> install with it. First, I had 22pF for a cristal that requires 12.5pF,
> giving me that 6 min delay for 6 hours, then, I realised these and
> installed 10Pf capacitor and the delay decreased to 1 minute for 6 hours,
> and I just ordered new capacitors of 12pF to get more closer to the
> manufacture requires, So I imagine that the delay is gonna get less.
>
>
>
> ·Is there any way to make this time delay shorter?
>
> ·Do you recommend me a tipe of cristal that is really acurate to install
> on my watch?
>
>
>
>  Thanks a lot nixie lover's
>
>
>
> --
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> 
> .
>
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[neonixie-l] Not Neon (again!) - VFD 40 x 2 display

[Richard Scales]

Might anyone be able to point me to some information regarding a VFD 
display that was used in a Point of Sale system?
The board is labelled "FT-030514" and additional research has come up with 
"FT-030514 VFD Customer Display Board T115089".
I am specifically looking for details of the 4 wire connections to the RJ45 
connector. THse have to be GND, +V, Data and possibly a handshake signal.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?
- Richard

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