Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[Richard Scales]

I've used HV5522 and HV5622 a lot without any issue - I always use a 
CD40109B level shifter to convert from 3v3V or 5V to 12V (I know many do 
not).

In Arduino Land there is a function called ShiftOut which does all the 
required clocking - it's for 8 bits as standard but can easily be re-worked 
for however many bits you want.

I have one clock with 4 x HV5522 in series for which I made a 128 bit 
ShiftOut function.

See here for details of the shiftout process: Arduino shiftOut(): Control 
chips with a 3 wire Serial Interface. (best-microcontroller-projects.com) 


It's an interesting page with scope traces to help explain.

Ultimately I moved over to using SPI transfers which are driven purely by 
the processor but the theory is all very similar.

- Richard





On Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 22:28:27 UTC+1 flata...@gmail.com wrote:

> You are a legend! I've looked at the schematics, very neat.
>
> I'm traveling on business tonight, back next weekend. Then I'll design my 
> own board for 4 beautiful Rz568m (present for my parents on Christmas). 
>
> Glad I now understand how the HV5530 etc work. 
>
> Looking forward to playing around with the code. 
>
> I'll definitely include RTC, GPS receiver and IR motion sensor (I finally 
> designed and tested a circuit using the cheap Ds203 ir sensor. I'm trying 
> to design a microwave sensor but only with minor success so far, the 
> antenna is very challenging to design without proper training and 
> measurement tools). 
>
> Thanks everyone for jumping in with so many suggestions. 
>
> I'll send a pic of my clock when ready. 
>
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: "SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F."  
> Date: 13/08/2022 22:16 (GMT+00:00) 
> To: neonixie-l  
> Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 
>
> Yes, the code is open source :)
>
> You can download it at the bottom of the page
> https://www.swissnixie.com/sunixs/
>
>
> I programmed it in Arduino with the atmeag328, but it should be a good 
> start to look at the function "setOutputs" in the code, it contains the 
> actual shifting process.
> Also it's easier to layout the outputs of the IC and cathode-pins as 
> "numbered" with the output number unless you are very experienced with the 
> code.  This allows bitwise operations for creating the variable containing 
> the value.
> For example, if your Cathode 0 is connected to output 1, and cathode 9 to 
> pin 10, you can use a function to shit as a single bit according to the 
> current digit number. If your digit is 8, you can do " 0x01<<8". If your 
> cathodes are randomly connected (to make an easy layout) you will need to 
> implement more code. 
>
> On Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 22:35:13 UTC+2 flata...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Jonathan,
>>
>> I just found this, it's excellent. 
>>
>> http://swissnixie.com/projects/SUNIX-S/SN_SUNIX_S_R1.2_WTB_SCHEMATIC.png
>>
>> From this post:
>> https://groups.google.com/g/neonixie-l/c/S1oX30hLrmw
>>
>> If the code is open source, I'll just use that otherwise I'll adapt mine 
>> to use hv5530 and hef4104. 
>>
>> Awesome! 
>>
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: "SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F."  
>> Date: 13/08/2022 20:51 (GMT+00:00) 
>> To: neonixie-l  
>> Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 
>>
>> The time to shift out the bits is not critical, the clock rate is as fast 
>> as you implement it, there is only a minimum clock time, but no maximum one.
>> Brightness should be the same as putting the tube pin directly to ground, 
>> the internal resistance of the mosfet in the HV5530 is in the Ohms range, 
>> while your anode resistor will probably will be a few kiloohms, so no 
>> visible issue.
>>
>> About voltage:
>> The HV5530 is specified for 10.8 to 13.2V, but alot of people seem to use 
>> it with 5V logic and it works. If you want do operate ith with 12V logic, 
>> you need a 12V source and a level shifter. HEF4104 
>> 
>>  
>> could work
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 19:04:21 UTC+2 flata...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> In terms of nixie brightness, is there any advantage in using serial to 
>>> parallel converter+shift register vs multiplexing using high voltage 
>>> transistors on anodes and cathodes of the nixies? Other than saving 
>>> component and uC pins, of course. 
>>>
>>>  Original message 
>>> From: Bill Stanley  
>>> Date: 13/08/2022 17:32 (GMT+00:00) 
>>> To: neonixie-l  
>>> Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 
>>>
>>> I use that part for my NIXIE, Panaplex and LED displays and I also write 
>>> in assembly (8051, not PIC)
>>> For my code, I send the serial data for NEXT time 

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[Max Di Noi]

You are a legend! I've looked at the schematics, very neat.I'm traveling on 
business tonight, back next weekend. Then I'll design my own board for 4 
beautiful Rz568m (present for my parents on Christmas). Glad I now understand 
how the HV5530 etc work. Looking forward to playing around with the code. I'll 
definitely include RTC, GPS receiver and IR motion sensor (I finally designed 
and tested a circuit using the cheap Ds203 ir sensor. I'm trying to design a 
microwave sensor but only with minor success so far, the antenna is very 
challenging to design without proper training and measurement tools). Thanks 
everyone for jumping in with so many suggestions. I'll send a pic of my clock 
when ready. 
 Original message From: "SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F." 
 Date: 13/08/2022  22:16  (GMT+00:00) To: neonixie-l 
 Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - 
Direct Drive HV5530 Yes, the code is open source :)You can download it at the 
bottom of the pagehttps://www.swissnixie.com/sunixs/I programmed it in Arduino 
with the atmeag328, but it should be a good start to look at the function 
"setOutputs" in the code, it contains the actual shifting process.Also it's 
easier to layout the outputs of the IC and cathode-pins as "numbered" with the 
output number unless you are very experienced with the code.  This allows 
bitwise operations for creating the variable containing the value.For example, 
if your Cathode 0 is connected to output 1, and cathode 9 to pin 10, you can 
use a function to shit as a single bit according to the current digit number. 
If your digit is 8, you can do " 0x01<<8". If your cathodes are randomly 
connected (to make an easy layout) you will need to implement more code. On 
Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 22:35:13 UTC+2 flata...@gmail.com wrote:Jonathan,I 
just found this, it's excellent. 
http://swissnixie.com/projects/SUNIX-S/SN_SUNIX_S_R1.2_WTB_SCHEMATIC.pngFrom 
this post:https://groups.google.com/g/neonixie-l/c/S1oX30hLrmwIf the code is 
open source, I'll just use that otherwise I'll adapt mine to use hv5530 and 
hef4104. Awesome!  Original message From: "SWISSNIXIE - 
Jonathan F."  Date: 13/08/2022  20:51  (GMT+00:00) To: 
neonixie-l  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie 
Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 The time to shift out the bits is not critical, the 
clock rate is as fast as you implement it, there is only a minimum clock time, 
but no maximum one.Brightness should be the same as putting the tube pin 
directly to ground, the internal resistance of the mosfet in the HV5530 is in 
the Ohms range, while your anode resistor will probably will be a few kiloohms, 
so no visible issue.About voltage:The HV5530 is specified for 10.8 to 13.2V, 
but alot of people seem to use it with 5V logic and it works. If you want do 
operate ith with 12V logic, you need a 12V source and a level shifter. 
HEF4104 could workOn Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 19:04:21 UTC+2 
flata...@gmail.com wrote:Thanks.In terms of nixie brightness, is there any 
advantage in using serial to parallel converter+shift register vs multiplexing 
using high voltage transistors on anodes and cathodes of the nixies? Other than 
saving component and uC pins, of course.  Original message 
From: Bill Stanley  Date: 13/08/2022  17:32  
(GMT+00:00) To: neonixie-l  Subject: [neonixie-l] 
Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 I use that part for my NIXIE, Panaplex 
and LED displays and I also write in assembly (8051, not PIC)For my code, I 
send the serial data for NEXT time to display in the time after a 1 second 
update. On the 1 second "hack"I update the display by doing the serial to 
parallel pulse.Here is the code I 
use:;;* 
                                   *;*    Serial clock the data in the raw 
buffer to the H/W drivers.     *;*    Note: this routine does not strobe the 
data to the display.    *;*                                    *;*    On Entry: 
None.                            *;*    On Exit:  Display H/W drivers updated 
from ram.            *;*                                    
*;WRT_NIXIE_HW:
    MOV    R0,#DISP_RAW_TH        ;point at start of raw display ram        
 MOV    R1,#12d            ;12 bytes of data to 
sendRAW_BYTE_LP:     MOV    R2,#5            ;5 bits per byte       
 MOVX    A,@R0            ;get a 5 bit value        
    INC    R0            ;bump the pointerRAW_BIT_LP:    RRC    A       
     ;bit 0 into carry       MOV    DISP_DAT,C        
;put the bit into the I/O port       CALL    
HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay       SETB    DISP_CLK       
 ;clock high       CALL    HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay   
    CLR    DISP_CLK        

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.]

Yes, the code is open source :)

You can download it at the bottom of the page
https://www.swissnixie.com/sunixs/


I programmed it in Arduino with the atmeag328, but it should be a good 
start to look at the function "setOutputs" in the code, it contains the 
actual shifting process.
Also it's easier to layout the outputs of the IC and cathode-pins as 
"numbered" with the output number unless you are very experienced with the 
code.  This allows bitwise operations for creating the variable containing 
the value.
For example, if your Cathode 0 is connected to output 1, and cathode 9 to 
pin 10, you can use a function to shit as a single bit according to the 
current digit number. If your digit is 8, you can do " 0x01<<8". If your 
cathodes are randomly connected (to make an easy layout) you will need to 
implement more code. 

On Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 22:35:13 UTC+2 flata...@gmail.com wrote:

> Jonathan,
>
> I just found this, it's excellent. 
>
> http://swissnixie.com/projects/SUNIX-S/SN_SUNIX_S_R1.2_WTB_SCHEMATIC.png
>
> From this post:
> https://groups.google.com/g/neonixie-l/c/S1oX30hLrmw
>
> If the code is open source, I'll just use that otherwise I'll adapt mine 
> to use hv5530 and hef4104. 
>
> Awesome! 
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: "SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F."  
> Date: 13/08/2022 20:51 (GMT+00:00) 
> To: neonixie-l  
> Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 
>
> The time to shift out the bits is not critical, the clock rate is as fast 
> as you implement it, there is only a minimum clock time, but no maximum one.
> Brightness should be the same as putting the tube pin directly to ground, 
> the internal resistance of the mosfet in the HV5530 is in the Ohms range, 
> while your anode resistor will probably will be a few kiloohms, so no 
> visible issue.
>
> About voltage:
> The HV5530 is specified for 10.8 to 13.2V, but alot of people seem to use 
> it with 5V logic and it works. If you want do operate ith with 12V logic, 
> you need a 12V source and a level shifter. HEF4104 
> 
>  
> could work
>
>
> On Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 19:04:21 UTC+2 flata...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> In terms of nixie brightness, is there any advantage in using serial to 
>> parallel converter+shift register vs multiplexing using high voltage 
>> transistors on anodes and cathodes of the nixies? Other than saving 
>> component and uC pins, of course. 
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: Bill Stanley  
>> Date: 13/08/2022 17:32 (GMT+00:00) 
>> To: neonixie-l  
>> Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 
>>
>> I use that part for my NIXIE, Panaplex and LED displays and I also write 
>> in assembly (8051, not PIC)
>> For my code, I send the serial data for NEXT time to display in the time 
>> after a 1 second update. On the 1 second "hack"
>> I update the display by doing the serial to parallel pulse.
>>
>> Here is the code I use:
>>
>> ;
>> ;**
>> ;*Serial clock the data in the raw buffer to the H/W drivers. *
>> ;*Note: this routine does not strobe the data to the display.*
>> ;**
>> ;*On Entry: None.*
>> ;*On Exit:  Display H/W drivers updated from ram.*
>> ;**
>> ;
>>
>> WRT_NIXIE_HW:MOVR0,#DISP_RAW_TH;point at start of raw 
>> display ram
>>  MOVR1,#12d;12 bytes of 
>> data to send
>> RAW_BYTE_LP: MOVR2,#5;5 bits per byte
>> MOVXA,@R0;get a 5 bit 
>> value
>> INCR0;bump the pointer
>>
>> RAW_BIT_LP:RRCA;bit 0 into carry
>>MOVDISP_DAT,C;put the bit into 
>> the I/O port
>>CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>>SETBDISP_CLK;clock high
>>CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>>CLRDISP_CLK;clock low
>>DJNZR2,RAW_BIT_LP;loop 5 bits
>>DJNZR1,RAW_BYTE_LP;loop 12 
>> bytes
>>RET;and return
>>
>>
>> ;
>> ;**
>> ;*Update the NIXIE readouts with the data in the H/W buffers.*
>> ;**
>> ;*On Entry: None.*
>> ;*On Exit:  NIXIE displays show 

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[Max Di Noi]

Jonathan,I just found this, it's excellent. 
http://swissnixie.com/projects/SUNIX-S/SN_SUNIX_S_R1.2_WTB_SCHEMATIC.pngFrom 
this post:https://groups.google.com/g/neonixie-l/c/S1oX30hLrmwIf the code is 
open source, I'll just use that otherwise I'll adapt mine to use hv5530 and 
hef4104. Awesome! 
 Original message From: "SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F." 
 Date: 13/08/2022  20:51  (GMT+00:00) To: neonixie-l 
 Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - 
Direct Drive HV5530 The time to shift out the bits is not critical, the clock 
rate is as fast as you implement it, there is only a minimum clock time, but no 
maximum one.Brightness should be the same as putting the tube pin directly to 
ground, the internal resistance of the mosfet in the HV5530 is in the Ohms 
range, while your anode resistor will probably will be a few kiloohms, so no 
visible issue.About voltage:The HV5530 is specified for 10.8 to 13.2V, but alot 
of people seem to use it with 5V logic and it works. If you want do operate ith 
with 12V logic, you need a 12V source and a level shifter. 
HEF4104 could workOn Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 19:04:21 UTC+2 
flata...@gmail.com wrote:Thanks.In terms of nixie brightness, is there any 
advantage in using serial to parallel converter+shift register vs multiplexing 
using high voltage transistors on anodes and cathodes of the nixies? Other than 
saving component and uC pins, of course.  Original message 
From: Bill Stanley  Date: 13/08/2022  17:32  
(GMT+00:00) To: neonixie-l  Subject: [neonixie-l] 
Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 I use that part for my NIXIE, Panaplex 
and LED displays and I also write in assembly (8051, not PIC)For my code, I 
send the serial data for NEXT time to display in the time after a 1 second 
update. On the 1 second "hack"I update the display by doing the serial to 
parallel pulse.Here is the code I 
use:;;* 
                                   *;*    Serial clock the data in the raw 
buffer to the H/W drivers.     *;*    Note: this routine does not strobe the 
data to the display.    *;*                                    *;*    On Entry: 
None.                            *;*    On Exit:  Display H/W drivers updated 
from ram.            *;*                                    
*;WRT_NIXIE_HW:
    MOV    R0,#DISP_RAW_TH        ;point at start of raw display ram        
 MOV    R1,#12d            ;12 bytes of data to 
sendRAW_BYTE_LP:     MOV    R2,#5            ;5 bits per byte       
 MOVX    A,@R0            ;get a 5 bit value        
    INC    R0            ;bump the pointerRAW_BIT_LP:    RRC    A       
     ;bit 0 into carry       MOV    DISP_DAT,C        
;put the bit into the I/O port       CALL    
HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay       SETB    DISP_CLK       
 ;clock high       CALL    HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay   
    CLR    DISP_CLK        ;clock low       
    DJNZ    R2,RAW_BIT_LP        ;loop 5 bits       
    DJNZ    R1,RAW_BYTE_LP        ;loop 12 bytes                               
RET                ;and 
return;;*
                                    *;*    Update the NIXIE readouts with the 
data in the H/W buffers.    *;*                                    *;*    On 
Entry: None.                            *;*    On Exit:  NIXIE displays show 
updated values.            *;*                                    
*;UPDATE_DISP:
    CALL    HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay                              SETB    
DISP_STRB        ;strobe the data                              CALL    
HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay          CLR    DISP_STRB        
;un-strobe NIXIE drivers          RETOn Saturday, August 
13, 2022 at 8:40:39 AM UTC-7 flata...@gmail.com wrote:Thank you both.Say that I 
want to drive high HVOUT12 on pin2 (that is binary b'0010') of the 
HV5530... and reading your previous messages, do I simply...:drive pin28 
(CLOCK) lowdrive pin31 (LE) lowdrive pin28 (CLOCK) highdrive pin32 (DATA Input) 
low ; send 0 for bit 0 of b'0010'drive pin28 (CLOCK) lowdrive pin28 (CLOCK) 
highdrive pin32 (DATA Input) high ; send 1 for bit 1 of b'0010'drive pin28 
(CLOCK) lowdrive pin28 (CLOCK) highdrive pin32 (DATA Input) low ; send 0 for 
bit 2 of b'0010'drive pin28 (CLOCK) low etcetc...drive pin31 (LE) high.Of 
course, I'd need to do it do it within a certain time frame (nS, I suppose)Then 
I guess I would need a level shifter as while the input voltage is 12V, the PIC 
is at 3.3V (LF 

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[Max Di Noi]

Thanks. So, that confirms that multiplexing reduces brightness. Which makes 
sense now that I start to understand how the HV5530 works.
 Original message From: Bill Stanley 
 Date: 13/08/2022  21:00  (GMT+00:00) To: neonixie-l 
 Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - 
Direct Drive HV5530 Using the high voltage serial to parallel part (I use the 
HV5812PJ-G

) is direct drive in that the NIXIE digits are driven with a stable readout 
until the digit(s) changeto update the time.The multiplexed drive uses 
(typically) open collector NPN transistors connected to the 10 cathodes tied 
together for all tubes i.e. all 0 cathodes, all 1 cathodes etc.The anodes with 
current limiters are separately driven to the high voltage rail.The driver 
turns on the desired cathode digit and then turns on the anode of 1 tube. the 
tube in then blanked and the cathode of the next tube is set upand that anode 
is activated. Persistence of vision makes the viewer think all 6 tubes are 
active at the same time (if the scan rate is high enough)Since for a typical 6 
digit clock, each tube is on for only 1/6 of the time, the current is raised 
above the normal value for direct drive to get the perceived brightnesscloser 
to the direct drive.To use a muxed display you to take care not to exceed the 
current limit for the tube and pay attention to the tube turn-on and turn off 
time to select the mux rate.I have read some comments on this board RE the 
effects of muxing (and brightness) on a tube life. Someone with a lot more 
NIXIE-fu than I have could add to this.For a 6 tube clock you would need 10 
cathode drivers and control bits and 6 anode drivers and control bits for 16 
GPIO bits. With the 
HV5812PJ-G type devices, you need only 3 bits irrespective of the tube count. 
The down side it that I assume the serial HV drivers may be hard (impossible) 
to find right now.On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:04:21 AM UTC-7 
flata...@gmail.com wrote:Thanks.In terms of nixie brightness, is there any 
advantage in using serial to parallel converter+shift register vs multiplexing 
using high voltage transistors on anodes and cathodes of the nixies? Other than 
saving component and uC pins, of course.  Original message 
From: Bill Stanley  Date: 13/08/2022  17:32  
(GMT+00:00) To: neonixie-l  Subject: [neonixie-l] 
Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 I use that part for my NIXIE, Panaplex 
and LED displays and I also write in assembly (8051, not PIC)For my code, I 
send the serial data for NEXT time to display in the time after a 1 second 
update. On the 1 second "hack"I update the display by doing the serial to 
parallel pulse.Here is the code I 
use:;;* 
                                   *;*    Serial clock the data in the raw 
buffer to the H/W drivers.     *;*    Note: this routine does not strobe the 
data to the display.    *;*                                    *;*    On Entry: 
None.                            *;*    On Exit:  Display H/W drivers updated 
from ram.            *;*                                    
*;WRT_NIXIE_HW:
    MOV    R0,#DISP_RAW_TH        ;point at start of raw display ram        
 MOV    R1,#12d            ;12 bytes of data to 
sendRAW_BYTE_LP:     MOV    R2,#5            ;5 bits per byte       
 MOVX    A,@R0            ;get a 5 bit value        
    INC    R0            ;bump the pointerRAW_BIT_LP:    RRC    A       
     ;bit 0 into carry       MOV    DISP_DAT,C        
;put the bit into the I/O port       CALL    
HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay       SETB    DISP_CLK       
 ;clock high       CALL    HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay   
    CLR    DISP_CLK        ;clock low       
    DJNZ    R2,RAW_BIT_LP        ;loop 5 bits       
    DJNZ    R1,RAW_BYTE_LP        ;loop 12 bytes                               
RET                ;and 
return;;*
                                    *;*    Update the NIXIE readouts with the 
data in the H/W buffers.    *;*                                    *;*    On 
Entry: None.                            *;*    On Exit:  NIXIE displays show 
updated values.            *;*                                    
*;UPDATE_DISP:
    CALL    HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay                              SETB    
DISP_STRB        ;strobe the data                              CALL    
HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay          CLR    DISP_STRB        
;un-strobe NIXIE drivers          RETOn Saturday, August 
13, 

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[Max Di Noi]

Great. I found a nice page that confirms the sequence of CLK/Data, I think it's 
in line with my understanding of your suggestions. 
http://reboots.g-cipher.net/time/So, the code for a serial to parallel 
convertershould be easy to implement.Yes, I'm aware that some people use the 
hv5530 at 5V but I'd like to use it in spec. I'll use a Hef4104 as you 
suggest.So I supply put it in between the PIC and the Hv5530, using 2 pins of 
the hef4104 on the input side and 2 pins to the CLK/Data of the hv5530? I've 
never used it before but I understand it should be simple. 
 Original message From: "SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F." 
 Date: 13/08/2022  20:51  (GMT+00:00) To: neonixie-l 
 Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - 
Direct Drive HV5530 The time to shift out the bits is not critical, the clock 
rate is as fast as you implement it, there is only a minimum clock time, but no 
maximum one.Brightness should be the same as putting the tube pin directly to 
ground, the internal resistance of the mosfet in the HV5530 is in the Ohms 
range, while your anode resistor will probably will be a few kiloohms, so no 
visible issue.About voltage:The HV5530 is specified for 10.8 to 13.2V, but alot 
of people seem to use it with 5V logic and it works. If you want do operate ith 
with 12V logic, you need a 12V source and a level shifter. 
HEF4104 could workOn Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 19:04:21 UTC+2 
flata...@gmail.com wrote:Thanks.In terms of nixie brightness, is there any 
advantage in using serial to parallel converter+shift register vs multiplexing 
using high voltage transistors on anodes and cathodes of the nixies? Other than 
saving component and uC pins, of course.  Original message 
From: Bill Stanley  Date: 13/08/2022  17:32  
(GMT+00:00) To: neonixie-l  Subject: [neonixie-l] 
Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 I use that part for my NIXIE, Panaplex 
and LED displays and I also write in assembly (8051, not PIC)For my code, I 
send the serial data for NEXT time to display in the time after a 1 second 
update. On the 1 second "hack"I update the display by doing the serial to 
parallel pulse.Here is the code I 
use:;;* 
                                   *;*    Serial clock the data in the raw 
buffer to the H/W drivers.     *;*    Note: this routine does not strobe the 
data to the display.    *;*                                    *;*    On Entry: 
None.                            *;*    On Exit:  Display H/W drivers updated 
from ram.            *;*                                    
*;WRT_NIXIE_HW:
    MOV    R0,#DISP_RAW_TH        ;point at start of raw display ram        
 MOV    R1,#12d            ;12 bytes of data to 
sendRAW_BYTE_LP:     MOV    R2,#5            ;5 bits per byte       
 MOVX    A,@R0            ;get a 5 bit value        
    INC    R0            ;bump the pointerRAW_BIT_LP:    RRC    A       
     ;bit 0 into carry       MOV    DISP_DAT,C        
;put the bit into the I/O port       CALL    
HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay       SETB    DISP_CLK       
 ;clock high       CALL    HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay   
    CLR    DISP_CLK        ;clock low       
    DJNZ    R2,RAW_BIT_LP        ;loop 5 bits       
    DJNZ    R1,RAW_BYTE_LP        ;loop 12 bytes                               
RET                ;and 
return;;*
                                    *;*    Update the NIXIE readouts with the 
data in the H/W buffers.    *;*                                    *;*    On 
Entry: None.                            *;*    On Exit:  NIXIE displays show 
updated values.            *;*                                    
*;UPDATE_DISP:
    CALL    HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay                              SETB    
DISP_STRB        ;strobe the data                              CALL    
HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay          CLR    DISP_STRB        
;un-strobe NIXIE drivers          RETOn Saturday, August 
13, 2022 at 8:40:39 AM UTC-7 flata...@gmail.com wrote:Thank you both.Say that I 
want to drive high HVOUT12 on pin2 (that is binary b'0010') of the 
HV5530... and reading your previous messages, do I simply...:drive pin28 
(CLOCK) lowdrive pin31 (LE) lowdrive pin28 (CLOCK) highdrive pin32 (DATA Input) 
low ; send 0 for bit 0 of b'0010'drive pin28 (CLOCK) lowdrive pin28 (CLOCK) 
highdrive pin32 (DATA Input) high ; send 1 for bit 1 of b'0010'drive pin28 
(CLOCK) lowdrive pin28 (CLOCK) highdrive pin32 (DATA Input) low 

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[Moses]

I believe the shift register speed is rated to 8mhz in these series of HV 
shift registers. But its not usually a problem since most people will 
probably not drive them that fast.

I did run a similar chip,the HV5122 at 5v with a 3.3v logic input (!) on a 
prototype of my last clock. It worked OK if the speed was kept low, around 
100-200khz or so, which was still plenty fast to update tubes. Letting my 
microcontroller free-run the shift register into the mhz range broke this 
setup. Other then an occasional glitch I didn't see any other issues if the 
speed was kept slow. It was going into production, so I eventually updated 
the design to power the drivers with 12v and logic level shifters.

Regards,
-Moses

On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 12:51:54 PM UTC-7 SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. 
wrote:

> The time to shift out the bits is not critical, the clock rate is as fast 
> as you implement it, there is only a minimum clock time, but no maximum one.
> Brightness should be the same as putting the tube pin directly to ground, 
> the internal resistance of the mosfet in the HV5530 is in the Ohms range, 
> while your anode resistor will probably will be a few kiloohms, so no 
> visible issue.
>
> About voltage:
> The HV5530 is specified for 10.8 to 13.2V, but alot of people seem to use 
> it with 5V logic and it works. If you want do operate ith with 12V logic, 
> you need a 12V source and a level shifter. HEF4104 
> 
>  
> could work
>
>
> On Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 19:04:21 UTC+2 flata...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> In terms of nixie brightness, is there any advantage in using serial to 
>> parallel converter+shift register vs multiplexing using high voltage 
>> transistors on anodes and cathodes of the nixies? Other than saving 
>> component and uC pins, of course. 
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: Bill Stanley  
>> Date: 13/08/2022 17:32 (GMT+00:00) 
>> To: neonixie-l  
>> Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 
>>
>> I use that part for my NIXIE, Panaplex and LED displays and I also write 
>> in assembly (8051, not PIC)
>> For my code, I send the serial data for NEXT time to display in the time 
>> after a 1 second update. On the 1 second "hack"
>> I update the display by doing the serial to parallel pulse.
>>
>> Here is the code I use:
>>
>> ;
>> ;**
>> ;*Serial clock the data in the raw buffer to the H/W drivers. *
>> ;*Note: this routine does not strobe the data to the display.*
>> ;**
>> ;*On Entry: None.*
>> ;*On Exit:  Display H/W drivers updated from ram.*
>> ;**
>> ;
>>
>> WRT_NIXIE_HW:MOVR0,#DISP_RAW_TH;point at start of raw 
>> display ram
>>  MOVR1,#12d;12 bytes of 
>> data to send
>> RAW_BYTE_LP: MOVR2,#5;5 bits per byte
>> MOVXA,@R0;get a 5 bit 
>> value
>> INCR0;bump the pointer
>>
>> RAW_BIT_LP:RRCA;bit 0 into carry
>>MOVDISP_DAT,C;put the bit into 
>> the I/O port
>>CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>>SETBDISP_CLK;clock high
>>CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>>CLRDISP_CLK;clock low
>>DJNZR2,RAW_BIT_LP;loop 5 bits
>>DJNZR1,RAW_BYTE_LP;loop 12 
>> bytes
>>RET;and return
>>
>>
>> ;
>> ;**
>> ;*Update the NIXIE readouts with the data in the H/W buffers.*
>> ;**
>> ;*On Entry: None.*
>> ;*On Exit:  NIXIE displays show updated values.*
>> ;**
>> ;
>>
>>
>> UPDATE_DISP:CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>>   SETBDISP_STRB;strobe the data
>>   CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>>   CLRDISP_STRB;un-strobe NIXIE 
>> drivers
>>   RET
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 8:40:39 AM UTC-7 flata...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you both.
>>>
>>> Say that I want to drive high HVOUT12 

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[Bill Stanley]

Using the high voltage serial to parallel part (I use the HV5812PJ-G ) is 
direct drive in that the NIXIE digits are driven with a stable readout 
until the digit(s) change
to update the time.
The multiplexed drive uses (typically) open collector NPN transistors 
connected to the 10 cathodes tied together for all tubes i.e. all 0 
cathodes, all 1 cathodes etc.
The anodes with current limiters are separately driven to the high voltage 
rail.
The driver turns on the desired cathode digit and then turns on the anode 
of 1 tube. the tube in then blanked and the cathode of the next tube is set 
up
and that anode is activated. Persistence of vision makes the viewer think 
all 6 tubes are active at the same time (if the scan rate is high enough)
Since for a typical 6 digit clock, each tube is on for only 1/6 of the 
time, the current is raised above the normal value for direct drive to get 
the perceived brightness
closer to the direct drive.

To use a muxed display you to take care not to exceed the current limit for 
the tube and pay attention to the tube turn-on and turn off time to select 
the mux rate.
I have read some comments on this board RE the effects of muxing (and 
brightness) on a tube life. Someone with a lot more NIXIE-fu than I have 
could add to this.

For a 6 tube clock you would need 10 cathode drivers and control bits and 6 
anode drivers and control bits for 16 GPIO bits. 
With the HV5812PJ-G type devices, you need only 3 bits irrespective of the 
tube count. The down side it that I assume the serial HV drivers may be 
hard (impossible) to find right now.


On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:04:21 AM UTC-7 flata...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks.
>
> In terms of nixie brightness, is there any advantage in using serial to 
> parallel converter+shift register vs multiplexing using high voltage 
> transistors on anodes and cathodes of the nixies? Other than saving 
> component and uC pins, of course. 
>
>  Original message 
> From: Bill Stanley  
> Date: 13/08/2022 17:32 (GMT+00:00) 
> To: neonixie-l  
> Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 
>
> I use that part for my NIXIE, Panaplex and LED displays and I also write 
> in assembly (8051, not PIC)
> For my code, I send the serial data for NEXT time to display in the time 
> after a 1 second update. On the 1 second "hack"
> I update the display by doing the serial to parallel pulse.
>
> Here is the code I use:
>
> ;
> ;**
> ;*Serial clock the data in the raw buffer to the H/W drivers. *
> ;*Note: this routine does not strobe the data to the display.*
> ;**
> ;*On Entry: None.*
> ;*On Exit:  Display H/W drivers updated from ram.*
> ;**
> ;
>
> WRT_NIXIE_HW:MOVR0,#DISP_RAW_TH;point at start of raw 
> display ram
>  MOVR1,#12d;12 bytes of 
> data to send
> RAW_BYTE_LP: MOVR2,#5;5 bits per byte
> MOVXA,@R0;get a 5 bit value
> INCR0;bump the pointer
>
> RAW_BIT_LP:RRCA;bit 0 into carry
>MOVDISP_DAT,C;put the bit into 
> the I/O port
>CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>SETBDISP_CLK;clock high
>CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>CLRDISP_CLK;clock low
>DJNZR2,RAW_BIT_LP;loop 5 bits
>DJNZR1,RAW_BYTE_LP;loop 12 bytes
>RET;and return
>
>
> ;
> ;**
> ;*Update the NIXIE readouts with the data in the H/W buffers.*
> ;**
> ;*On Entry: None.*
> ;*On Exit:  NIXIE displays show updated values.*
> ;**
> ;
>
>
> UPDATE_DISP:CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>   SETBDISP_STRB;strobe the data
>   CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>   CLRDISP_STRB;un-strobe NIXIE 
> drivers
>   RET
>
>
>
> On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 8:40:39 AM UTC-7 flata...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank you both.
>>
>> Say that I want to drive high HVOUT12 on pin2 (that is binary 
>> 

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.]

The time to shift out the bits is not critical, the clock rate is as fast 
as you implement it, there is only a minimum clock time, but no maximum one.
Brightness should be the same as putting the tube pin directly to ground, 
the internal resistance of the mosfet in the HV5530 is in the Ohms range, 
while your anode resistor will probably will be a few kiloohms, so no 
visible issue.

About voltage:
The HV5530 is specified for 10.8 to 13.2V, but alot of people seem to use 
it with 5V logic and it works. If you want do operate ith with 12V logic, 
you need a 12V source and a level shifter. HEF4104 

 
could work


On Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 19:04:21 UTC+2 flata...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks.
>
> In terms of nixie brightness, is there any advantage in using serial to 
> parallel converter+shift register vs multiplexing using high voltage 
> transistors on anodes and cathodes of the nixies? Other than saving 
> component and uC pins, of course. 
>
>  Original message 
> From: Bill Stanley  
> Date: 13/08/2022 17:32 (GMT+00:00) 
> To: neonixie-l  
> Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530 
>
> I use that part for my NIXIE, Panaplex and LED displays and I also write 
> in assembly (8051, not PIC)
> For my code, I send the serial data for NEXT time to display in the time 
> after a 1 second update. On the 1 second "hack"
> I update the display by doing the serial to parallel pulse.
>
> Here is the code I use:
>
> ;
> ;**
> ;*Serial clock the data in the raw buffer to the H/W drivers. *
> ;*Note: this routine does not strobe the data to the display.*
> ;**
> ;*On Entry: None.*
> ;*On Exit:  Display H/W drivers updated from ram.*
> ;**
> ;
>
> WRT_NIXIE_HW:MOVR0,#DISP_RAW_TH;point at start of raw 
> display ram
>  MOVR1,#12d;12 bytes of 
> data to send
> RAW_BYTE_LP: MOVR2,#5;5 bits per byte
> MOVXA,@R0;get a 5 bit value
> INCR0;bump the pointer
>
> RAW_BIT_LP:RRCA;bit 0 into carry
>MOVDISP_DAT,C;put the bit into 
> the I/O port
>CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>SETBDISP_CLK;clock high
>CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>CLRDISP_CLK;clock low
>DJNZR2,RAW_BIT_LP;loop 5 bits
>DJNZR1,RAW_BYTE_LP;loop 12 bytes
>RET;and return
>
>
> ;
> ;**
> ;*Update the NIXIE readouts with the data in the H/W buffers.*
> ;**
> ;*On Entry: None.*
> ;*On Exit:  NIXIE displays show updated values.*
> ;**
> ;
>
>
> UPDATE_DISP:CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>   SETBDISP_STRB;strobe the data
>   CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
>   CLRDISP_STRB;un-strobe NIXIE 
> drivers
>   RET
>
>
>
> On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 8:40:39 AM UTC-7 flata...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Thank you both.
>>
>> Say that I want to drive high HVOUT12 on pin2 (that is binary 
>> b'0010') of the HV5530... and reading your previous messages, do I 
>> simply...:
>>
>> drive pin28 (CLOCK) low
>> drive pin31 (LE) low
>>
>> drive pin28 (CLOCK) high
>> drive pin32 (DATA Input) low ; send 0 for bit 0 of b'0010'
>> drive pin28 (CLOCK) low
>> drive pin28 (CLOCK) high
>> drive pin32 (DATA Input) high ; send 1 for bit 1 of b'0010'
>> drive pin28 (CLOCK) low
>> drive pin28 (CLOCK) high
>> drive pin32 (DATA Input) low ; send 0 for bit 2 of b'0010'
>> drive pin28 (CLOCK) low etc
>> etc...
>> drive pin31 (LE) high.
>>
>> Of course, I'd need to do it do it within a certain time frame (nS, I 
>> suppose)
>>
>> Then I guess I would need a level shifter as while the input voltage is 
>> 12V, the PIC is at 3.3V (LF series). Argh. 
>>
>> I'm starting to think whether that is really a better approach than using 
>> an 80pin or 100pin PIC with HV transistors to drive 

[neonixie-l] Soviet DMM Front Panel Labelling

[Mac Doktor]

Another ex-Soviet Nixie DMM:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125460995198 


Take a look at the last picture. The prefix is a capitol letter pi ("П") and 
the rotary switch is set to "R" (Roman alphabet) with a downward pointing arrow 
next to. What do these things indicate?

I've been wondering what the capitol pi was used for since the first time I saw 
an IN-19V. Anyone?


I'm seriously tempted but the shipping for the 4kg package is a bit steep.


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

https://www.astarcloseup.com

"Would you like to see the relevant data?"—343 Guilty Spark, Halo 2

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/D7185F6A-1DC0-4D5C-82B1-29E738E95950%40gmail.com.

RE: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[Max Di Noi]

Thanks.In terms of nixie brightness, is there any advantage in using serial to 
parallel converter+shift register vs multiplexing using high voltage 
transistors on anodes and cathodes of the nixies? Other than saving component 
and uC pins, of course. 
 Original message From: Bill Stanley 
 Date: 13/08/2022  17:32  (GMT+00:00) To: neonixie-l 
 Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct 
Drive HV5530 I use that part for my NIXIE, Panaplex and LED displays and I also 
write in assembly (8051, not PIC)For my code, I send the serial data for NEXT 
time to display in the time after a 1 second update. On the 1 second "hack"I 
update the display by doing the serial to parallel pulse.Here is the code I 
use:;;* 
                                   *;*    Serial clock the data in the raw 
buffer to the H/W drivers.     *;*    Note: this routine does not strobe the 
data to the display.    *;*                                    *;*    On Entry: 
None.                            *;*    On Exit:  Display H/W drivers updated 
from ram.            *;*                                    
*;WRT_NIXIE_HW:
    MOV    R0,#DISP_RAW_TH        ;point at start of raw display ram        
 MOV    R1,#12d            ;12 bytes of data to 
sendRAW_BYTE_LP:     MOV    R2,#5            ;5 bits per byte       
 MOVX    A,@R0            ;get a 5 bit value        
    INC    R0            ;bump the pointerRAW_BIT_LP:    RRC    A       
     ;bit 0 into carry       MOV    DISP_DAT,C        
;put the bit into the I/O port       CALL    
HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay       SETB    DISP_CLK       
 ;clock high       CALL    HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay   
    CLR    DISP_CLK        ;clock low       
    DJNZ    R2,RAW_BIT_LP        ;loop 5 bits       
    DJNZ    R1,RAW_BYTE_LP        ;loop 12 bytes                               
RET                ;and 
return;;*
                                    *;*    Update the NIXIE readouts with the 
data in the H/W buffers.    *;*                                    *;*    On 
Entry: None.                            *;*    On Exit:  NIXIE displays show 
updated values.            *;*                                    
*;UPDATE_DISP:
    CALL    HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay                              SETB    
DISP_STRB        ;strobe the data                              CALL    
HV_BIT_DELAY        ;delay          CLR    DISP_STRB        
;un-strobe NIXIE drivers          RETOn Saturday, August 
13, 2022 at 8:40:39 AM UTC-7 flata...@gmail.com wrote:Thank you both.Say that I 
want to drive high HVOUT12 on pin2 (that is binary b'0010') of the 
HV5530... and reading your previous messages, do I simply...:drive pin28 
(CLOCK) lowdrive pin31 (LE) lowdrive pin28 (CLOCK) highdrive pin32 (DATA Input) 
low ; send 0 for bit 0 of b'0010'drive pin28 (CLOCK) lowdrive pin28 (CLOCK) 
highdrive pin32 (DATA Input) high ; send 1 for bit 1 of b'0010'drive pin28 
(CLOCK) lowdrive pin28 (CLOCK) highdrive pin32 (DATA Input) low ; send 0 for 
bit 2 of b'0010'drive pin28 (CLOCK) low etcetc...drive pin31 (LE) high.Of 
course, I'd need to do it do it within a certain time frame (nS, I suppose)Then 
I guess I would need a level shifter as while the input voltage is 12V, the PIC 
is at 3.3V (LF series). Argh. I'm starting to think whether that is really a 
better approach than using an 80pin or 100pin PIC with HV transistors to drive 
the cathodes of the Nixies (pic18f46k22 would do for instance). It would 
increase component count and cost of PIC etc, but it's not a commercial 
project, I'm only making 3 clocks in total.Indeed, I'm building a clock with 
Dalibor's RZ568M (beautiful!).Il giorno sabato 13 agosto 2022 alle 15:46:58 
UTC+1 gregebert ha scritto:Be sure to use a level translator to drive the 
5530-type devices at the proper signal voltages (12 VDC). Some people have 
driven them at 5V, which is out-of-spec and not guaranteed to work.  I use 
these drivers in some of my clocks and they work very well. Pardon my rant 
below, but I've been designing IC's for a living since the 1980's and too often 
I see others having problems with serial devices  :  One thing that annoys me 
about the HV5530 (and similar) devices is that the datasheet specs are 
incomplete for the serial data signals. The data-in hold time (tH) is 10nsec, 
but there is no minimum propagation time in the spec (tDLH, tDHL). The only 
have a maximum (100ns). What this means 

[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[Bill Stanley]

I use that part for my NIXIE, Panaplex and LED displays and I also write in 
assembly (8051, not PIC)
For my code, I send the serial data for NEXT time to display in the time 
after a 1 second update. On the 1 second "hack"
I update the display by doing the serial to parallel pulse.

Here is the code I use:

;
;**
;*Serial clock the data in the raw buffer to the H/W drivers. *
;*Note: this routine does not strobe the data to the display.*
;**
;*On Entry: None.*
;*On Exit:  Display H/W drivers updated from ram.*
;**
;

WRT_NIXIE_HW:MOVR0,#DISP_RAW_TH;point at start of raw 
display ram
 MOVR1,#12d;12 bytes of 
data to send
RAW_BYTE_LP: MOVR2,#5;5 bits per byte
MOVXA,@R0;get a 5 bit value
INCR0;bump the pointer

RAW_BIT_LP:RRCA;bit 0 into carry
   MOVDISP_DAT,C;put the bit into 
the I/O port
   CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
   SETBDISP_CLK;clock high
   CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
   CLRDISP_CLK;clock low
   DJNZR2,RAW_BIT_LP;loop 5 bits
   DJNZR1,RAW_BYTE_LP;loop 12 bytes
   RET;and return


;
;**
;*Update the NIXIE readouts with the data in the H/W buffers.*
;**
;*On Entry: None.*
;*On Exit:  NIXIE displays show updated values.*
;**
;


UPDATE_DISP:CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
  SETBDISP_STRB;strobe the data
  CALLHV_BIT_DELAY;delay
  CLRDISP_STRB;un-strobe NIXIE 
drivers
  RET



On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 8:40:39 AM UTC-7 flata...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thank you both.
>
> Say that I want to drive high HVOUT12 on pin2 (that is binary b'0010') 
> of the HV5530... and reading your previous messages, do I simply...:
>
> drive pin28 (CLOCK) low
> drive pin31 (LE) low
>
> drive pin28 (CLOCK) high
> drive pin32 (DATA Input) low ; send 0 for bit 0 of b'0010'
> drive pin28 (CLOCK) low
> drive pin28 (CLOCK) high
> drive pin32 (DATA Input) high ; send 1 for bit 1 of b'0010'
> drive pin28 (CLOCK) low
> drive pin28 (CLOCK) high
> drive pin32 (DATA Input) low ; send 0 for bit 2 of b'0010'
> drive pin28 (CLOCK) low etc
> etc...
> drive pin31 (LE) high.
>
> Of course, I'd need to do it do it within a certain time frame (nS, I 
> suppose)
>
> Then I guess I would need a level shifter as while the input voltage is 
> 12V, the PIC is at 3.3V (LF series). Argh. 
>
> I'm starting to think whether that is really a better approach than using 
> an 80pin or 100pin PIC with HV transistors to drive the cathodes of the 
> Nixies (pic18f46k22 would do for instance). It would increase component 
> count and cost of PIC etc, but it's not a commercial project, I'm only 
> making 3 clocks in total.
>
> Indeed, I'm building a clock with Dalibor's RZ568M (beautiful!).
>
> Il giorno sabato 13 agosto 2022 alle 15:46:58 UTC+1 gregebert ha scritto:
>
>> Be sure to use a level translator to drive the 5530-type devices at the 
>> proper signal voltages (12 VDC). Some people have driven them at 5V, which 
>> is out-of-spec and not guaranteed to work.  I use these drivers in some of 
>> my clocks and they work very well. 
>>
>> Pardon my rant below, but I've been designing IC's for a living since the 
>> 1980's and too often I see others having problems with serial devices  :
>>
>>   One thing that annoys me about the HV5530 (and similar) devices is that 
>> the datasheet specs are incomplete for the serial data signals. The data-in 
>> hold time (tH) is 10nsec, but there is no *minimum* propagation time in 
>> the spec (tDLH, tDHL). The only have a maximum (100ns). What this means is 
>> that per the datasheet, you cannot simply cascade multiple devices. It 
>> might work if you do, but if you want to guarantee that it will always 
>> work, place a rising-edge flip-flop between cascaded devices). In order to 
>> have reliable shifting, the minimum 

[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[Max DN]

Thank you both.

Say that I want to drive high HVOUT12 on pin2 (that is binary b'0010') 
of the HV5530... and reading your previous messages, do I simply...:

drive pin28 (CLOCK) low
drive pin31 (LE) low

drive pin28 (CLOCK) high
drive pin32 (DATA Input) low ; send 0 for bit 0 of b'0010'
drive pin28 (CLOCK) low
drive pin28 (CLOCK) high
drive pin32 (DATA Input) high ; send 1 for bit 1 of b'0010'
drive pin28 (CLOCK) low
drive pin28 (CLOCK) high
drive pin32 (DATA Input) low ; send 0 for bit 2 of b'0010'
drive pin28 (CLOCK) low etc
etc...
drive pin31 (LE) high.

Of course, I'd need to do it do it within a certain time frame (nS, I 
suppose)

Then I guess I would need a level shifter as while the input voltage is 
12V, the PIC is at 3.3V (LF series). Argh. 

I'm starting to think whether that is really a better approach than using 
an 80pin or 100pin PIC with HV transistors to drive the cathodes of the 
Nixies (pic18f46k22 would do for instance). It would increase component 
count and cost of PIC etc, but it's not a commercial project, I'm only 
making 3 clocks in total.

Indeed, I'm building a clock with Dalibor's RZ568M (beautiful!).

Il giorno sabato 13 agosto 2022 alle 15:46:58 UTC+1 gregebert ha scritto:

> Be sure to use a level translator to drive the 5530-type devices at the 
> proper signal voltages (12 VDC). Some people have driven them at 5V, which 
> is out-of-spec and not guaranteed to work.  I use these drivers in some of 
> my clocks and they work very well. 
>
> Pardon my rant below, but I've been designing IC's for a living since the 
> 1980's and too often I see others having problems with serial devices  :
>
>   One thing that annoys me about the HV5530 (and similar) devices is that 
> the datasheet specs are incomplete for the serial data signals. The data-in 
> hold time (tH) is 10nsec, but there is no *minimum* propagation time in 
> the spec (tDLH, tDHL). The only have a maximum (100ns). What this means is 
> that per the datasheet, you cannot simply cascade multiple devices. It 
> might work if you do, but if you want to guarantee that it will always 
> work, place a rising-edge flip-flop between cascaded devices). In order to 
> have reliable shifting, the minimum propagation-delay of the driving device 
> *must 
> be greater* than the hold-time of the next device. If there is no minimum 
> prop-delay spec, assume it's zero (a very safe and reasonable assumption). 
>
> My current clock project (6-tube RZ 568m) has multiple PC boards with 
> ribbon cables interconnecting them. Not just for the three HV5530's that 
> drive the tubes, but also many other devices in the same serial chain for 
> reading switches and controlling lamps. After many weeks of testing with 
> billions of bits, there are zero bit errors.because I made sure setup 
> and hold times are met.
>
>
> On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 6:32:31 AM UTC-7 SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Max,
>> The HV5530 and other HV-Series IC's are "Serial to Paralell" converters 
>> which allow to be control 32-pins (or even more with multiple ic's) from 
>> single clock and data lines. They are basically normal serial to parallel 
>> converters with high voltage transistors attached. 
>>
>> To operate these you will need a clock source (for easy way a gpio that 
>> goes high/low) and a data source, which means either a pin that is high or 
>> low at the time of clock. After you've sent the required amount of data 
>> (number of outputs on the IC) the first data will transfer to "DATA OUT" 
>> pin and into the next IC (if there is one).
>>
>> For a 6 digit clock you need 2 pcs of HV553
>>
>> I cannot provice ASM code for PIC, but here is a low level code of ATMega:
>>
>> *#define thePort PORTD *
>> *#define DATA PD5*
>>
>> *#define CLK PD7 *
>>
>>
>> *PORTC |= _BV(PC1);  //Set OE/LE Signal LOW*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> * for (int i = 0; i < 32; i++) {thePort &= ~_BV(DATA);  //Data LOW
>> if ( bitRead(val_one, i) == 1) {  thePort |= _BV(DATA);  //Data HIGH
>> }thePort |= _BV(CLK);  //CLK HIGHthePort &= ~_BV(CLK); //CLK LOW  }*
>> *PORTC &= ~_BV(PC1);  //Set OE/LE Signal HIGH* 
>>
>> The general operation of the 5530 is as following.
>>
>> 1.) Drive Data pin and Clock pin LOW
>> 2.) Before starting to send data, drive LE pin LOW
>> 3.) For each bit you need to do a clock signal and data pin, for this:
>> 3.1) Drive CLOCK High
>> 3.2) Drive DATA high or low, depending if you want to turn the digit on 
>> or off
>> 3.3) Drive CLOCK Low
>> 3.4) Drive DATA Low
>> 4.) This needs to be done for all Inputs of an ic, if you have two ic's 
>> chained you need to to it two times.
>> 5.) After all Data has been sent, drive LE pin HIGH, Outputs will now be 
>> set to the data you've just send
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 12:13:24 UTC+2 flata...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I'm starting to design my first 6 digit nixie clock and I'd like to use 
>>> direct drive 

[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[gregebert]

Be sure to use a level translator to drive the 5530-type devices at the 
proper signal voltages (12 VDC). Some people have driven them at 5V, which 
is out-of-spec and not guaranteed to work.  I use these drivers in some of 
my clocks and they work very well. 

Pardon my rant below, but I've been designing IC's for a living since the 
1980's and too often I see others having problems with serial devices  :

  One thing that annoys me about the HV5530 (and similar) devices is that 
the datasheet specs are incomplete for the serial data signals. The data-in 
hold time (tH) is 10nsec, but there is no *minimum* propagation time in the 
spec (tDLH, tDHL). The only have a maximum (100ns). What this means is that 
per the datasheet, you cannot simply cascade multiple devices. It might 
work if you do, but if you want to guarantee that it will always work, 
place a rising-edge flip-flop between cascaded devices). In order to have 
reliable shifting, the minimum propagation-delay of the driving device *must 
be greater* than the hold-time of the next device. If there is no minimum 
prop-delay spec, assume it's zero (a very safe and reasonable assumption). 

My current clock project (6-tube RZ 568m) has multiple PC boards with 
ribbon cables interconnecting them. Not just for the three HV5530's that 
drive the tubes, but also many other devices in the same serial chain for 
reading switches and controlling lamps. After many weeks of testing with 
billions of bits, there are zero bit errors.because I made sure setup 
and hold times are met.


On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 6:32:31 AM UTC-7 SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. 
wrote:

> Hi Max,
> The HV5530 and other HV-Series IC's are "Serial to Paralell" converters 
> which allow to be control 32-pins (or even more with multiple ic's) from 
> single clock and data lines. They are basically normal serial to parallel 
> converters with high voltage transistors attached. 
>
> To operate these you will need a clock source (for easy way a gpio that 
> goes high/low) and a data source, which means either a pin that is high or 
> low at the time of clock. After you've sent the required amount of data 
> (number of outputs on the IC) the first data will transfer to "DATA OUT" 
> pin and into the next IC (if there is one).
>
> For a 6 digit clock you need 2 pcs of HV553
>
> I cannot provice ASM code for PIC, but here is a low level code of ATMega:
>
> *#define thePort PORTD *
> *#define DATA PD5*
>
> *#define CLK PD7 *
>
>
> *PORTC |= _BV(PC1);  //Set OE/LE Signal LOW*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * for (int i = 0; i < 32; i++) {thePort &= ~_BV(DATA);  //Data LOW
> if ( bitRead(val_one, i) == 1) {  thePort |= _BV(DATA);  //Data HIGH
> }thePort |= _BV(CLK);  //CLK HIGHthePort &= ~_BV(CLK); //CLK LOW  }*
> *PORTC &= ~_BV(PC1);  //Set OE/LE Signal HIGH* 
>
> The general operation of the 5530 is as following.
>
> 1.) Drive Data pin and Clock pin LOW
> 2.) Before starting to send data, drive LE pin LOW
> 3.) For each bit you need to do a clock signal and data pin, for this:
> 3.1) Drive CLOCK High
> 3.2) Drive DATA high or low, depending if you want to turn the digit on or 
> off
> 3.3) Drive CLOCK Low
> 3.4) Drive DATA Low
> 4.) This needs to be done for all Inputs of an ic, if you have two ic's 
> chained you need to to it two times.
> 5.) After all Data has been sent, drive LE pin HIGH, Outputs will now be 
> set to the data you've just send
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 12:13:24 UTC+2 flata...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> I'm starting to design my first 6 digit nixie clock and I'd like to use 
>> direct drive of the tubes (my power supply can take 6 nixies without 
>> multiplexing).
>>
>> So far I have built my Nixie watch, coding in ASM, worked on extreme 
>> power saving etc.
>>
>> I could multiplex the nixies as I did in this project 
>> https://fb.watch/eTb69SnxEP/ , but since I have a good power supply I 
>> wanted to build a clock with direct drive of the tubes.
>>
>> I prefer to code in ASM (don't ask why :)  ), I could use a 100pin PIC18 
>> to drive each digit individually through MMBTA92 & A42 transistors. 
>> However, if I want to use a PIC with a lower pin count (say 40pins), I may 
>> use a driver such as HV5530.
>>
>> Would I still get same brightness as a genuine direct drive as when using 
>> A92 transistors? I suppose the switching that happens using CLK/SDA on 
>> the HV5530 is not too different than a good multiplexing. I may be wrong.
>>
>> And if I were do code ASM to use HV5530, does anyone have sample ASM 
>> code? I managed to write myself the code to read/write time from an RTC 
>> using CLK/SDA so I suppose it's very similar but I cannot figure it out 
>> from the datasheet of HV5530.
>>
>> Any help is much appreciated.
>>
>> Max
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to 

[neonixie-l] Re: Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.]

Hi Max,
The HV5530 and other HV-Series IC's are "Serial to Paralell" converters 
which allow to be control 32-pins (or even more with multiple ic's) from 
single clock and data lines. They are basically normal serial to parallel 
converters with high voltage transistors attached. 

To operate these you will need a clock source (for easy way a gpio that 
goes high/low) and a data source, which means either a pin that is high or 
low at the time of clock. After you've sent the required amount of data 
(number of outputs on the IC) the first data will transfer to "DATA OUT" 
pin and into the next IC (if there is one).

For a 6 digit clock you need 2 pcs of HV553

I cannot provice ASM code for PIC, but here is a low level code of ATMega:

*#define thePort PORTD *
*#define DATA PD5*

*#define CLK PD7 *


*PORTC |= _BV(PC1);  //Set OE/LE Signal LOW*








* for (int i = 0; i < 32; i++) {thePort &= ~_BV(DATA);  //Data LOW
if ( bitRead(val_one, i) == 1) {  thePort |= _BV(DATA);  //Data HIGH
}thePort |= _BV(CLK);  //CLK HIGHthePort &= ~_BV(CLK); //CLK LOW  }*
*PORTC &= ~_BV(PC1);  //Set OE/LE Signal HIGH* 

The general operation of the 5530 is as following.

1.) Drive Data pin and Clock pin LOW
2.) Before starting to send data, drive LE pin LOW
3.) For each bit you need to do a clock signal and data pin, for this:
3.1) Drive CLOCK High
3.2) Drive DATA high or low, depending if you want to turn the digit on or 
off
3.3) Drive CLOCK Low
3.4) Drive DATA Low
4.) This needs to be done for all Inputs of an ic, if you have two ic's 
chained you need to to it two times.
5.) After all Data has been sent, drive LE pin HIGH, Outputs will now be 
set to the data you've just send







On Saturday, 13 August 2022 at 12:13:24 UTC+2 flata...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm starting to design my first 6 digit nixie clock and I'd like to use 
> direct drive of the tubes (my power supply can take 6 nixies without 
> multiplexing).
>
> So far I have built my Nixie watch, coding in ASM, worked on extreme power 
> saving etc.
>
> I could multiplex the nixies as I did in this project 
> https://fb.watch/eTb69SnxEP/ , but since I have a good power supply I 
> wanted to build a clock with direct drive of the tubes.
>
> I prefer to code in ASM (don't ask why :)  ), I could use a 100pin PIC18 
> to drive each digit individually through MMBTA92 & A42 transistors. 
> However, if I want to use a PIC with a lower pin count (say 40pins), I may 
> use a driver such as HV5530.
>
> Would I still get same brightness as a genuine direct drive as when using 
> A92 transistors? I suppose the switching that happens using CLK/SDA on 
> the HV5530 is not too different than a good multiplexing. I may be wrong.
>
> And if I were do code ASM to use HV5530, does anyone have sample ASM code? 
> I managed to write myself the code to read/write time from an RTC using 
> CLK/SDA so I suppose it's very similar but I cannot figure it out from the 
> datasheet of HV5530.
>
> Any help is much appreciated.
>
> Max
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/e81986bb-9c4b-45a9-93fd-b3b487dd32ebn%40googlegroups.com.

[neonixie-l] Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[Max DN]

Hello,

I'm starting to design my first 6 digit nixie clock and I'd like to use 
direct drive of the tubes (my power supply can take 6 nixies without 
multiplexing).

So far I have built my Nixie watch, coding in ASM, worked on extreme power 
saving etc.

I could multiplex the nixies as I did in this project 
https://fb.watch/eTb69SnxEP/ , but since I have a good power supply I 
wanted to build a clock with direct drive of the tubes.

I prefer to code in ASM (don't ask why :)  ), I could use a 100pin PIC18 to 
drive each digit individually through MMBTA92 & A42 transistors. However, 
if I want to use a PIC with a lower pin count (say 40pins), I may use a 
driver such as HV5530.

Would I still get same brightness as a genuine direct drive as when using 
A92 transistors? I suppose the switching that happens using CLK/SDA on 
the HV5530 is not too different than a good multiplexing. I may be wrong.

And if I were do code ASM to use HV5530, does anyone have sample ASM code? 
I managed to write myself the code to read/write time from an RTC using 
CLK/SDA so I suppose it's very similar but I cannot figure it out from the 
datasheet of HV5530.

Any help is much appreciated.

Max

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/5ca3f681-6250-4902-b14a-078d80e1f9d7n%40googlegroups.com.

[neonixie-l] Nixie Clock - Direct Drive HV5530

[Max DN]

Hello,

I'm starting to design my first 6 digit nixie clock and I'd like to use 
direct drive of the tunes (my power supply can take 6 nixies without 
multiplexing).

So far I have built my Nixie watch, coding in ASM, worked on extreme power 
saving etc.

I could multiplex the nixies as I did in this project 
https://fb.watch/eTb69SnxEP/ , but since I have a good power supply I 
wanted to build a clock with direct drive of the tubes.

I prefer to code in ASM (don't ask why :)  ), I could use a 100pin PIC18 to 
drive each digit individually through MMBTA92 & A42 transistors. However, 
if I want to use a PIC with a lower pin count (say 40pins), I may use a 
driver such as HV5530.

Would I still get same brightness as a genuine direct drive as when using 
A92 transistors? I suppose the switching that happens using CLK/SDA on 
the HV5530 is not too different than a good multiplexing. I may be wrong.

And if I were do code ASM to use HV5530, does anyone have sample ASM code? 
I managed to write myself the code to read/write time from an RTC using 
CLK/SDA so I suppose it's very similar but I cannot figure it out from the 
datasheet of HV5530.

Any help is much appreciated.

Max

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/2d6a7380-5715-4b30-9d3c-fd2a1758n%40googlegroups.com.