Re: [neonixie-l] I asked ChatGPT to do a 500 word paper about nixie tubes...

[newxito]

I think we're going to see hundreds of copyright lawsuits against these AI 
companies and their users. It started already with Copilot...

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/ca05c553-dc63-4c2e-a742-1afcda5530b1n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [neonixie-l] I asked ChatGPT to do a 500 word paper about nixie tubes...

[Jeff Walton]

This discussion is the reason for my original post.  Some of the details 
regarding nixies and reliability, etc appeared to come from sites that most on 
the group are familiar with.  It must be using web based information to come up 
with some of the specifics.  The interpretation is the interesting part.  No 
general database is going to know about direct drive VS multiplex and such with 
any detail. 
 Original message From: gregebert  Date: 
1/24/23  1:42 PM  (GMT-06:00) To: neonixie-l  
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] I asked ChatGPT to do a 500 word paper about nixie 
tubes... I'm having a hard time grasping how a system could store and index so 
much information locally. That in itself is daunting due to the sheer volume of 
data. The other thing I'm curious about is how much of the response is 
plagiarized/reworded from existing information, versus true AI (collated from 
various sources, analyzed for consistency, and then cherry-picked for the best 
info without being redundant or missing important tidbits).On Tuesday, January 
24, 2023 at 11:03:01 AM UTC-8 wyager wrote:All of GPT-3's world-knowledge is 
embedded into its parameters. Whatever it tells you is the equivalent of a 
human telling you something "from memory".  It takes only a few seconds for it 
to respond to a prompt. 

Connecting AIs to external data sources is, I imagine, under active research, 
but none of the current LLMs use external data. 

> On Jan 24, 2023, at 13:24, gregebert  wrote:
> 
> John - How long did it take for 'HAL' to compose the response ? That would 
> give a lot of clues about how far-and-wide it searches for info. I'm guessing 
> it took at least several minutes.
> 




-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/360c505b-7b50-4230-879d-0a31b1bf6b85n%40googlegroups.com.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/63d045ad.6b0a0220.63366.29e1%40mx.google.com.

Re: [neonixie-l] I asked ChatGPT to do a 500 word paper about nixie tubes...

[Nicholas Stock]

As others have described, any AI's output is very dependent on the training
data provided but also the nature of the neural network that is used for
that training (garbage in, garbage out still holds for any machine learning
process). For some staggeringly successful examples, check out AlphaGo (
https://www.nature.com/articles/nature16961) and Alpha Zero (
https://www.deepmind.com/research/highlighted-research/alphago). This
technology lies behind image recognition software, natural language
processing and is slowly making its way into multiple different areas of
society (I was head of chemistry at an AI based chemistry startup for 3
years, so I looked at this quite a bit...). Now ChatGPT. who knows
what's next!

On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 11:50 AM Audrey  wrote:

> Yeah it is a lot to wrap your head around, the data isn't really stored
> per se, it's trained on the text word-by-word and it tries to guess what
> word comes next after the previous word, and that shapes its parameters,
> the text itself is never stored per se, it just tries to answer your
> queries based on what it thinks the response is, the training data can't
> cover every possible niche topic because they havent fed it every bit of
> text there is, that's probably why it didnt understand a question around
> cathode poisoning. In some cases it does spit out articles largely
> verbatim, but that's undesired and unintended, and usually occurs when
> there isnt a lot of data on the subject (called overfitting).
>
> On Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 2:42 PM gregebert  wrote:
>
>> I'm having a hard time grasping how a system could store and index so
>> much information locally. That in itself is daunting due to the sheer
>> volume of data. The other thing I'm curious about is how much of the
>> response is plagiarized/reworded from existing information, versus true AI
>> (collated from various sources, analyzed for consistency, and then
>> cherry-picked for the best info without being redundant or missing
>> important tidbits).
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 11:03:01 AM UTC-8 wyager wrote:
>>
>>> All of GPT-3's world-knowledge is embedded into its parameters. Whatever
>>> it tells you is the equivalent of a human telling you something "from
>>> memory". It takes only a few seconds for it to respond to a prompt.
>>>
>>> Connecting AIs to external data sources is, I imagine, under active
>>> research, but none of the current LLMs use external data.
>>>
>>> > On Jan 24, 2023, at 13:24, gregebert  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > John - How long did it take for 'HAL' to compose the response ? That
>>> would give a lot of clues about how far-and-wide it searches for info. I'm
>>> guessing it took at least several minutes.
>>> >
>>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web, visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/360c505b-7b50-4230-879d-0a31b1bf6b85n%40googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAPDJQ6Cm-c6%2Bs0L8cxqOqbABSzd0LMWG3yGut2DnS5UkM9sd%3Dg%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAOX%2BRHLFd%3DLTt_ehhXa1VVRDkGNVcx168-1v_yObT6enPB1sDQ%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [neonixie-l] I asked ChatGPT to do a 500 word paper about nixie tubes...

[Audrey]

Yeah it is a lot to wrap your head around, the data isn't really stored per
se, it's trained on the text word-by-word and it tries to guess what word
comes next after the previous word, and that shapes its parameters, the
text itself is never stored per se, it just tries to answer your queries
based on what it thinks the response is, the training data can't cover
every possible niche topic because they havent fed it every bit of text
there is, that's probably why it didnt understand a question around cathode
poisoning. In some cases it does spit out articles largely verbatim, but
that's undesired and unintended, and usually occurs when there isnt a lot
of data on the subject (called overfitting).

On Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 2:42 PM gregebert  wrote:

> I'm having a hard time grasping how a system could store and index so much
> information locally. That in itself is daunting due to the sheer volume of
> data. The other thing I'm curious about is how much of the response is
> plagiarized/reworded from existing information, versus true AI (collated
> from various sources, analyzed for consistency, and then cherry-picked for
> the best info without being redundant or missing important tidbits).
>
> On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 11:03:01 AM UTC-8 wyager wrote:
>
>> All of GPT-3's world-knowledge is embedded into its parameters. Whatever
>> it tells you is the equivalent of a human telling you something "from
>> memory". It takes only a few seconds for it to respond to a prompt.
>>
>> Connecting AIs to external data sources is, I imagine, under active
>> research, but none of the current LLMs use external data.
>>
>> > On Jan 24, 2023, at 13:24, gregebert  wrote:
>> >
>> > John - How long did it take for 'HAL' to compose the response ? That
>> would give a lot of clues about how far-and-wide it searches for info. I'm
>> guessing it took at least several minutes.
>> >
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/360c505b-7b50-4230-879d-0a31b1bf6b85n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAPDJQ6Cm-c6%2Bs0L8cxqOqbABSzd0LMWG3yGut2DnS5UkM9sd%3Dg%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [neonixie-l] I asked ChatGPT to do a 500 word paper about nixie tubes...

[Adrian Godwin]

The examples I've read 'feel' very plagiarised. They read like those web
pages put out there to attract google hits and, thereby, accidental
advertising views - very much as thoughj ripped from wikipedia or
advertising copy. At best, I would think they pull a bunch of paragraphs
from different sources.

There is apparently research happening to analyses these articles (with
more 'AI' !) to try to catch undergrad essays created using the bots. It
will be interesting to try those on those search engine targets .. maybe
google will then demote them in favour of original material.

On Tue, Jan 24, 2023 at 7:42 PM gregebert  wrote:

> I'm having a hard time grasping how a system could store and index so much
> information locally. That in itself is daunting due to the sheer volume of
> data. The other thing I'm curious about is how much of the response is
> plagiarized/reworded from existing information, versus true AI (collated
> from various sources, analyzed for consistency, and then cherry-picked for
> the best info without being redundant or missing important tidbits).
>
> On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 11:03:01 AM UTC-8 wyager wrote:
>
>> All of GPT-3's world-knowledge is embedded into its parameters. Whatever
>> it tells you is the equivalent of a human telling you something "from
>> memory". It takes only a few seconds for it to respond to a prompt.
>>
>> Connecting AIs to external data sources is, I imagine, under active
>> research, but none of the current LLMs use external data.
>>
>> > On Jan 24, 2023, at 13:24, gregebert  wrote:
>> >
>> > John - How long did it take for 'HAL' to compose the response ? That
>> would give a lot of clues about how far-and-wide it searches for info. I'm
>> guessing it took at least several minutes.
>> >
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/360c505b-7b50-4230-879d-0a31b1bf6b85n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CALiMYrt9BPgUEBbNbfQhH6ghTbXrhhuDgcwMc4k2aAmjJV6vSg%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [neonixie-l] I asked ChatGPT to do a 500 word paper about nixie tubes...

[gregebert]

I'm having a hard time grasping how a system could store and index so much 
information locally. That in itself is daunting due to the sheer volume of 
data. The other thing I'm curious about is how much of the response is 
plagiarized/reworded from existing information, versus true AI (collated 
from various sources, analyzed for consistency, and then cherry-picked for 
the best info without being redundant or missing important tidbits).

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 11:03:01 AM UTC-8 wyager wrote:

> All of GPT-3's world-knowledge is embedded into its parameters. Whatever 
> it tells you is the equivalent of a human telling you something "from 
> memory". It takes only a few seconds for it to respond to a prompt. 
>
> Connecting AIs to external data sources is, I imagine, under active 
> research, but none of the current LLMs use external data. 
>
> > On Jan 24, 2023, at 13:24, gregebert  wrote:
> > 
> > John - How long did it take for 'HAL' to compose the response ? That 
> would give a lot of clues about how far-and-wide it searches for info. I'm 
> guessing it took at least several minutes.
> > 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/360c505b-7b50-4230-879d-0a31b1bf6b85n%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [neonixie-l] I asked ChatGPT to do a 500 word paper about nixie tubes...

[Will Yager]

All of GPT-3's world-knowledge is embedded into its parameters. Whatever it 
tells you is the equivalent of a human telling you something "from memory".  It 
takes only a few seconds for it to respond to a prompt. 

Connecting AIs to external data sources is, I imagine, under active research, 
but none of the current LLMs use external data. 

> On Jan 24, 2023, at 13:24, gregebert  wrote:
> 
> John - How long did it take for 'HAL' to compose the response ? That would 
> give a lot of clues about how far-and-wide it searches for info. I'm guessing 
> it took at least several minutes.
> 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/E5E1A20F-3C33-4713-8098-318D2AD5E624%40gmail.com.

Re: [neonixie-l] I asked ChatGPT to do a 500 word paper about nixie tubes...

[Audrey]

It doesnt search for info to generate responses. This model could be run
entirely offline.

On Tue, Jan 24, 2023, 1:24 PM gregebert  wrote:

> John - How long did it take for 'HAL' to compose the response ? That would
> give a lot of clues about how far-and-wide it searches for info. I'm
> guessing it took at least several minutes.
>
> On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 9:57:15 AM UTC-8 Neonjohn wrote:
>
>> This thing is amazing and maybe a little scary. I tried to stump it
>> with "explain deflagration transition to detonation". (OK, so I'm an
>> explosives expert too :-)
>>
>> Response:
>>
>> "Deflagration is a type of combustion in which a flame front propagates
>> through a substance at a subsonic velocity, releasing energy in the form
>> of heat and pressure. Detonation, on the other hand, is a supersonic
>> combustion process in which a shock wave precedes the flame front,
>> causing a rapid release of energy.
>>
>> The transition from deflagration to detonation, also known as
>> deflagration-to-detonation transition (DDT), occurs when the pressure
>> and temperature generated by the deflagration process reach a certain
>> threshold, causing the flame front to accelerate and become supersonic.
>> This transition is often associated with a significant increase in the
>> rate of pressure rise and release of energy, making it a potentially
>> dangerous phenomenon in certain situations, such as in the combustion of
>> fuels and explosives.
>>
>> DDT is a complex process and its understanding is still not complete.
>> Many factors can influence the transition, including the properties of
>> the combustible mixture, the geometry of the combustion chamber, and the
>> initial conditions of the combustion process.
>>
>> In order to prevent or control DDT, various methods have been developed,
>> such as the use of flame arresters, which are devices that inhibit the
>> spread of a flame front by disrupting the chemical reactions that
>> sustain combustion. Others methods include the use of specific ignition
>> systems, or the use of additives that change the reaction kinetics of
>> the fuels."
>>
>> Wow! Spot on. Exactly correct.
>>
>> I then asked it "Explain nixie tube poisoning". It didn't do too well
>> on that one.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> On 1/21/23 13:34, Mac Doktor wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Jan 21, 2023, at 12:52 PM, Jeff Walton > >> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I tried asking, *"Create a 500 word essay about nixie tubes"* and here
>> >> is what it came up with:
>> >
>> > It's close, 513 words.
>> >
>> >
>> > https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/ 
>> >
>> > The site says it's at capacity right now, try again later.
>> >
>> >
>> > Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
>> > "The Mac Doctor"
>> >
>> > https://www.astarcloseup.com 
>> >
>> > “...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars,
>> > it said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close
>> > up.”—Carl Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night",/Cosmos/, 1980
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>> > Groups "neonixie-l" group.
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>> > an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com
>> > .
>> > To view this discussion on the web, visit
>> >
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/8468AF9D-6637-42B7-ADCB-4351D2BEC48C%40gmail.com
>> <
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/8468AF9D-6637-42B7-ADCB-4351D2BEC48C%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>>
>>
>> --
>> John DeArmond
>> j...@neon-john.com
>> j...@johndearmond.com
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/50ad5252-f240-4152-b35e-66b8697132ban%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/CAPDJQ6CurEBDU4smEyZDPq86RpLkmfa3PA67A8Dg0x6A-Ow0eA%40mail.gmail.com.

Re: [neonixie-l] I asked ChatGPT to do a 500 word paper about nixie tubes...

[gregebert]

John - How long did it take for 'HAL' to compose the response ? That would 
give a lot of clues about how far-and-wide it searches for info. I'm 
guessing it took at least several minutes.

On Tuesday, January 24, 2023 at 9:57:15 AM UTC-8 Neonjohn wrote:

> This thing is amazing and maybe a little scary. I tried to stump it 
> with "explain deflagration transition to detonation". (OK, so I'm an 
> explosives expert too :-)
>
> Response:
>
> "Deflagration is a type of combustion in which a flame front propagates 
> through a substance at a subsonic velocity, releasing energy in the form 
> of heat and pressure. Detonation, on the other hand, is a supersonic 
> combustion process in which a shock wave precedes the flame front, 
> causing a rapid release of energy.
>
> The transition from deflagration to detonation, also known as 
> deflagration-to-detonation transition (DDT), occurs when the pressure 
> and temperature generated by the deflagration process reach a certain 
> threshold, causing the flame front to accelerate and become supersonic. 
> This transition is often associated with a significant increase in the 
> rate of pressure rise and release of energy, making it a potentially 
> dangerous phenomenon in certain situations, such as in the combustion of 
> fuels and explosives.
>
> DDT is a complex process and its understanding is still not complete. 
> Many factors can influence the transition, including the properties of 
> the combustible mixture, the geometry of the combustion chamber, and the 
> initial conditions of the combustion process.
>
> In order to prevent or control DDT, various methods have been developed, 
> such as the use of flame arresters, which are devices that inhibit the 
> spread of a flame front by disrupting the chemical reactions that 
> sustain combustion. Others methods include the use of specific ignition 
> systems, or the use of additives that change the reaction kinetics of 
> the fuels."
>
> Wow! Spot on. Exactly correct.
>
> I then asked it "Explain nixie tube poisoning". It didn't do too well 
> on that one.
>
> John
>
>
> On 1/21/23 13:34, Mac Doktor wrote:
> > 
> >> On Jan 21, 2023, at 12:52 PM, Jeff Walton  >> > wrote:
> >>
> >> I tried asking, *"Create a 500 word essay about nixie tubes"* and here 
> >> is what it came up with:
> > 
> > It's close, 513 words.
> > 
> > 
> > https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/ 
> > 
> > The site says it's at capacity right now, try again later.
> > 
> > 
> > Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
> > "The Mac Doctor"
> > 
> > https://www.astarcloseup.com 
> > 
> > “...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, 
> > it said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close 
> > up.”—Carl Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night",/Cosmos/, 1980
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> > Groups "neonixie-l" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> > an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com 
> > .
> > To view this discussion on the web, visit 
> > 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/8468AF9D-6637-42B7-ADCB-4351D2BEC48C%40gmail.com
>  
> <
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/8468AF9D-6637-42B7-ADCB-4351D2BEC48C%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer
> >.
>
> -- 
> John DeArmond
> j...@neon-john.com
> j...@johndearmond.com
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/50ad5252-f240-4152-b35e-66b8697132ban%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [neonixie-l] I asked ChatGPT to do a 500 word paper about nixie tubes...

[John DeArmond]

This thing is amazing and maybe a little scary.  I tried to stump it 
with "explain deflagration transition to detonation". (OK, so I'm an 
explosives expert too :-)


Response:

"Deflagration is a type of combustion in which a flame front propagates 
through a substance at a subsonic velocity, releasing energy in the form 
of heat and pressure. Detonation, on the other hand, is a supersonic 
combustion process in which a shock wave precedes the flame front, 
causing a rapid release of energy.


The transition from deflagration to detonation, also known as 
deflagration-to-detonation transition (DDT), occurs when the pressure 
and temperature generated by the deflagration process reach a certain 
threshold, causing the flame front to accelerate and become supersonic. 
This transition is often associated with a significant increase in the 
rate of pressure rise and release of energy, making it a potentially 
dangerous phenomenon in certain situations, such as in the combustion of 
fuels and explosives.


DDT is a complex process and its understanding is still not complete. 
Many factors can influence the transition, including the properties of 
the combustible mixture, the geometry of the combustion chamber, and the 
initial conditions of the combustion process.


In order to prevent or control DDT, various methods have been developed, 
such as the use of flame arresters, which are devices that inhibit the 
spread of a flame front by disrupting the chemical reactions that 
sustain combustion. Others methods include the use of specific ignition 
systems, or the use of additives that change the reaction kinetics of 
the fuels."


Wow!  Spot on.  Exactly correct.

I then asked it "Explain nixie tube poisoning".  It didn't do too well 
on that one.


 John


On 1/21/23 13:34, Mac Doktor wrote:


On Jan 21, 2023, at 12:52 PM, Jeff Walton > wrote:


I tried asking, *"Create a 500 word essay about nixie tubes"* and here 
is what it came up with:


It's close, 513 words.


https://openai.com/blog/chatgpt/ 

The site says it's at capacity right now, try again later.


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

https://www.astarcloseup.com 

“...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, 
it said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close 
up.”—Carl Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night",/Cosmos/, 1980



--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
Groups "neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
an email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/8468AF9D-6637-42B7-ADCB-4351D2BEC48C%40gmail.com .


--
John DeArmond
j...@neon-john.com
j...@johndearmond.com

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/d3bd4c53-bc9f-d5b1-8dd2-4d118f13182b%40neon-john.com.

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: Any interest in IV-9 numitron clock kit?

[Allen]

Moses,I was going to place an order but have a couple of questions.What is the difference between an ESP32 and a Xaiu ESP32C3?Also there is no way to pick “optional items”I’m looking forward to this clock. AllenAllen Wisbey, W1SBYOn Jan 20, 2023, at 5:31 PM, Moses  wrote:I'm taking pre-orders! Waiting on a few production parts to arrive, testing and adding a few final features to the firmware. There is an order link on the main page at http://www.neonixie.com/IV-9-6D-RR/The firmware has several new features. I've added barometric readings from the optional BMP280, mostly data displayed on the devices web server, but I've included a drop down option to use the display as an altimeter! :)I'm working on adding a pressure display option, likely alternating between current pressure and HI / LO pressures for the last 24 hours. There's also an option to display wifi RSSI and LUX readings, mainly for debugging. If anyone has any other ideas for an 'alternate display' I'm all ears!I'm delaying the QT PY board sale until I can do a little bit more testing and secure sufficient stock. The original Espressif devkitc module and Xiao C3 versions are available now.Thank you everyone for your support and be sure to read the dedication on the bottom of the page!Regards,-MosesOn Friday, December 30, 2022 at 9:20:27 PM UTC-8 Moses wrote:An update. I've gotten a hold of a few Adafruit QT Py ESP32 boards and have been testing them out lately. The last picture is a working mockup before I spin up another PCB.http://www.neonixie.com/IV-9-6D-RR/Looks like I can keep both the original ESP32 DEVKITC footprint and add the QT Py easily, giving me a few options. The Seeed Studio Xiao boards have the same pinout as the QT Py, so potentially another controller option.Height of components was mentioned previously, and if I omit the socket for the QT Py or the larger ESP32, I can get the board height down to about 9mm, which is pretty good I would say. As luck would have it.. I believe the pinout of the IV-9 is such that you can add the missing pin of the circular pin arrangement, connect them together and mount the tubes on the 'bottom' of the board. With this small change one can solder the tubes to the "bottom" with just a simple software option!The 74125 logic converter IC is below the ESP32, I may just move this away to the right side of the board. The BH1750 lux sensor and AHT20 temp/humidity in the corner of the board are working well.One thing I did notice is the QT Py boards can't be too far away from the wifi router.. likely from the tiny chip antenna they use. They have a variant with external antenna, might try that too. The ESP32-C3 (RISC-V) variant needed some USB drivers on my dev machine, which was a task, but eventually worked.I have been providing the tubes with 5v and running PWM at about 75%, this gives me right around 20ma per segment, and avoids having to provide a DC-DC converter. The actual voltage to the segments is less then 5v.. since there are losses in the driver ICs. I do have a diode on the PCB as well, which you can put in line with a solder jumper. The diode drops the 5v down to about 4.2v, giving a native 20ma per segment without PWM. I'd like to ask if anyone has any knowledge on theoretical lifespan impact of either option. I like the 5v option with PWM, can limit the maximum in software but provide the option to overdrive them if anyone so chooses. This is my first production attempt at a numitron clock, so any detailed experience from group members is greatly appreciated.Regards,-MosesOn Friday, December 9, 2022 at 5:03:45 PM UTC-8 Moses wrote:Ian,Yes, the picture is overexposed. I've found it's pretty difficult to take good pictures of numitrons!The diode is just a plain silicon version, I put a jumper pad on the bottom to bypass it if desired. When in line it drops about 0.8v, so my input of 5v becomes 4.2v and the segments are using about 20ma each. Bypassing it and providing 5v to the segments gives 24ma. There is PWM dimming, so a maximum current option is easy to add to the firmware (on top the the default brightness settings). During normal clock operation it's running about 600ma, so I'm burning about 0.5w in the diode. It's not very hot, but I will add some more copper on the PCB if the diode remains. I did think about adding a switching converter, but that adds more parts to solder. Assuming a switching converter would be 90% efficient.. I go from burning 0.5w to 0.2w. Is saving 1/3 of a watt worth the additional parts cost? I'm not sure. I'm trying to go with a low parts count without sacrificing much.Yes, it's a bog standard 'clock in a box' type kit, haha. But I think I'm ok with that right now. Could move everything to the bottom.. that's always an option.I used to socket everything.. but now my thinking is with modern semiconductors, once it works it's likely good for a few decades I would hope! It's feels like I'm adding another point of potential failure.Cool clocks on your site!I di

Re: [neonixie-l] Time Code Translator with Nixie "clock" display

['Ian Vine' via neonixie-l]

I’ve been thinking of making a timecode display for video editing. Similar to 
the SMPTE format but frames has different range depending on the video

IanV

> On 24 Jan 2023, at 02:13, Charles MacDonald  wrote:
> 
> On 2023-01-22 10:57, Mac Doktor wrote:
>> I've never seen this one before:
>> https://www.ebay.com/itm/364119298468 
> 
> for resolving and displaying  SMPTE time code which can be recorded as an 
> audio signal and contains Hours, Minutes, Seconds and Frames for editing 
> audio/visual information.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMPTE_timecode
> 
> 
> -- 
> Charles MacDonald  VA3CPY   Stittsville Ontario
> cm...@zeusprune.ca  Just Beyond the Fringe
> No Microsoft Products were used in sending this e-mail.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/10df2ff8-fa36-6353-0b4c-1139e86c8379%40zeusprune.ca.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/DEE018D0-FE4D-4556-8B8F-351BD46548AC%40yahoo.co.uk.