Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Nick]

Speaking for "they" :)

The files are all still on the Yahoo! group - its the same moderators both 
here and on the old group - luckily, Ray handed over the Yahoo! group 
ownership before he died, so we control that.

Google Groups don't have their own file section, per se; the recommendation 
is that you use another Google service to provide that capability but the 
problem is in ownership and upload rights - there is no way to link the 
membership of a Google Group with access rights to a Google Docs or Google 
Drive repository, i.e. controlling upload rights etc. would be a major pain 
as users would have to be doubly registered - if someone knows otherwise, 
please let me know.

Oddly, I have been looking at this again after giving up a couple of years 
ago - Since setting up the Google group, I've been shadowing it on 
mail-archive.com (as stated in the group intro), but I've also shadowed the 
old Yahoo! group at groups.io - https://groups.io/g/neonixie-l, just for 
safety.

When I first did that, groups.io didn't have a "files" or "database" 
section, and now they do, so I'm trying (not very hard, I have to admit) to 
get the Yahoo files section mirrored there I have asked their support 
team what we need to do to get the files accross - no response yet...

Ho, hum. On with the day job.

Nick (not the pharmaceutical one)

On Saturday, 25 March 2017 14:26:24 UTC+4, johnk wrote:
>
> Actually no idea how far "they" got relocating the files and photos from 
> the old Yahoo Group. The intro to this group doesn't tell much.
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/neonixie-l
>  
> I see stuff like this on the web, but it doesn't seem to match even though 
> they purport to be discussing Google and not Yahoo.. "Every group comes 
> with 100 MB of storage space to store all of your group's photos, 
> documents, and more. You can view the amount of storage space your group is 
> using by clicking on the "Files (Default)" link on the right side of your 
> group's homepage. The amount of storage space currently being used is 
> indicated at the bottom of the Files page."
>  
> If you look back at the early days of this Google Group, no doubt Nick 
> spells it out. I seem to remember discussions about having to 'link' 
> various Google products together to get the 'old' Yahoo functionality.
>  
> BUT, the good news
>  
> I mentioned the Yahoo days when I posted on 23 Feb about the military use 
> [and I still need some pictures].
> If you go there you will see photo and file areas. There is a lot of stuff 
> stored by the Yahoo Group guys.
> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NEONIXIE-L/info
>  
>  
> John K.
>  
>  
>
> - Original Message - 
> *From:* Paul Andrews <p...@nixies.us> 
> *To:* neonixie-l <neonixie-l@googlegroups.com> 
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 25, 2017 2:04 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock
>
> What files/photos section? i.e. How do we access that?
>
> On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 5:07:36 AM UTC-4, johnk wrote: 
>>
>> Some of you might like what you see in the files/photos section of this 
>> Google Group or the old Yahoo Group - pics of non-nixie displays and lots 
>> of interesting stuff.
>>  
>> John K
>>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[JohnK]

Actually no idea how far "they" got relocating the files and photos from the 
old Yahoo Group. The intro to this group doesn't tell much.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/neonixie-l

I see stuff like this on the web, but it doesn't seem to match even though they 
purport to be discussing Google and not Yahoo.. "Every group comes with 100 MB 
of storage space to store all of your group's photos, documents, and more. You 
can view the amount of storage space your group is using by clicking on the 
"Files (Default)" link on the right side of your group's homepage. The amount 
of storage space currently being used is indicated at the bottom of the Files 
page."

If you look back at the early days of this Google Group, no doubt Nick spells 
it out. I seem to remember discussions about having to 'link' various Google 
products together to get the 'old' Yahoo functionality.

BUT, the good news

I mentioned the Yahoo days when I posted on 23 Feb about the military use [and 
I still need some pictures].
If you go there you will see photo and file areas. There is a lot of stuff 
stored by the Yahoo Group guys.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/NEONIXIE-L/info


John K.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Paul Andrews 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2017 2:04 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock


  What files/photos section? i.e. How do we access that?

  On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 5:07:36 AM UTC-4, johnk wrote:
Some of you might like what you see in the files/photos section of this 
Google Group or the old Yahoo Group - pics of non-nixie displays and lots of 
interesting stuff.

John K

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<>

Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Paul Andrews]

What files/photos section? i.e. How do we access that?

On Friday, March 24, 2017 at 5:07:36 AM UTC-4, johnk wrote:
>
> Some of you might like what you see in the files/photos section of this 
> Google Group or the old Yahoo Group - pics of non-nixie displays and lots 
> of interesting stuff.
>  
> John K
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[JohnK]

Some of you might like what you see in the files/photos section of this Google 
Group or the old Yahoo Group - pics of non-nixie displays and lots of 
interesting stuff.

John K
  - Original Message - 
  From: Manuel Azevedo 
  To: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 24, 2017 7:07 PM
  Subject: RE: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock


  Looks like that “Lixies” already existed before:

   

  
http://hackaday.com/2017/03/23/before-there-were-nixie-tubes-there-were-edge-lit-displays/

   

  Edge Lit Displays – never knew about this.

   

  Still a cool idea and I want to explore it myself.

   


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RE: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Manuel Azevedo]

And of course Jürgen already experimented with them too…

https://hackaday.com/2012/02/18/edge-lit-nixie-tube-is-sheer-brilliance/


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RE: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Manuel Azevedo]

Looks like that “Lixies” already existed before:

http://hackaday.com/2017/03/23/before-there-were-nixie-tubes-there-were-edge-lit-displays/

Edge Lit Displays – never knew about this.

Still a cool idea and I want to explore it myself.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Michail1 via neonixie-l]

Agreed.
 
How about the failed kickstarters though?
 
Still waiting forever for my TIKO.
What's worse is that they came back and had everyone pay an additional $55  
for shipping and that isn't going to be refunded either.
 
Michail  


 
In a message dated 3/22/2017 1:24:48 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
n...@desmith.net writes:

The guy  is dead. We've been over it far too many times - nothing to be 
gained  revisiting it.  


Nick


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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Dylan Distasio]

No funds were ever returned, and I think you can see from his own writing
that he has no real issue with what he did.  Apparently, screwing over his
backers was a learning tool for him.

I have backed a ton of projects on Kickstarter, and fully understand that
things can go wrong and that ultimately a project may not work out
(although in all my backed projects, his was the only one where I
encountered a total loss combined with fraud).   I think that all most
backers are looking for is a well planned out best effort, and transparency
throughout the process.  In this case, there was zero transparency until
the end, irresponsible use of funds (criminal in my mind), and a lack of
remorse.  If he had really cared about what he had done, and learned from
the experience, he would be refunding his backers over time.

Anyways, for obvious reasons, I personally will never do business with him
again.  Luckily, it was a relatively minor loss financially, but the
overall experience leaves a bitter taste.

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 1:12 AM, Nick  wrote:

> OK - I just like to know the background if someone is casting aspersions...
>
> Thank you for posting that - I looked on Kickstarter and he'd made the
> above post private, available to backers only.
>
> Not a good story and I presume no funds were ever returned? He could still
> clear his name by refunding folk over time.
>
> Everyone makes mistakes - Lord knows I have - but you need to be upfront &
> honest about it and clear up the mess afterwards.
>
> One to avoid, methinks.
>
> Nick
>
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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Nick]

The guy is dead. We've been over it far too many times - nothing to be 
gained revisiting it.

Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[JohnK]

I am really surprised that no-one has mentioned the you-know-who saga.

John K.
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nick 
  To: neonixie-l 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 4:02 PM
  Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock


  On Wednesday, 22 March 2017 09:13:31 UTC+4, gregebert wrote:
I think a lot of kickstarter campaigns are started by people who have a 
good idea, but dont have first-hand experience taking a concept into 
production. It's NOT easy, and it's not cheap.


Every time I finish another clock, my wife asks me why I dont sell them. My 
usual answer is that I make nixie clocks for fun and I do it at my own leisure; 
once I start selling them it's a business with financial & schedule 
constraints. I get too much of that from my day-job (well, it's more like a 
day+night+weekend job). 
---
Regarding that guy's sob-story about his Prius..I own 2 of them and 
they are excellent, trouble-free cars.
Regarding that guy's sob story about Chinese PCB manufactureI've done 
several boards there and they are excellent quality.


  Agreed on all fronts - the sob-story is completely irrelevant - he could 
still have pledged to return the money over time and if I was a backer, I'd be 
really piss*d about this. His own/personal problems/stupidity are nothing to do 
with his backers.


  I also use a variety of Chinese PCB manufacturers - PCBway is my current 
favorite for prototypes - and I've never had a problem with them, assuming you 
give them decent Gerbers in the first place :)


  I've commercialised a few items over the years, but I gave up being an EE 
professionally many years ago as it's a tough old world. Bring a product to 
market requires a lot of careful planning and risk assessment, both commercial 
and technical - you shouldn't even consider Kickstarter until you have a few 
working prototypes, i.e. Kickstarter is not a way to realise your technical 
fantasies!


  Anybody thinking about this, just do a lot of upfront reading first and, 
please, talk to people who've done that & been there - experience is 
everything: Accept that the risk should be all yours, not your backers', Be 
honest, communicate well and regularly (surprises are generally a BAD plan), 
build in contingency (that's not the same as profit, by the way!). Backers 
accept properly managed risk - some projects are bound to fail - no-one accepts 
stupidity or dishonesty.


  NIck

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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Nick]

On Wednesday, 22 March 2017 09:13:31 UTC+4, gregebert wrote:
>
> I think a lot of kickstarter campaigns are started by people who have a 
> good idea, but dont have first-hand experience taking a concept into 
> production. It's NOT easy, and it's not cheap.
>
> Every time I finish another clock, my wife asks me why I dont sell them. 
> My usual answer is that I make nixie clocks for fun and I do it at my own 
> leisure; once I start selling them it's a business with financial & 
> schedule constraints. I get too much of that from my day-job (well, it's 
> more like a day+night+weekend job). 
> ---
> Regarding that guy's sob-story about his Prius..I own 2 of them and 
> they are excellent, trouble-free cars.
> Regarding that guy's sob story about Chinese PCB manufactureI've done 
> several boards there and they are excellent quality.
>

Agreed on all fronts - the sob-story is completely irrelevant - he could 
still have pledged to return the money over time and if I was a backer, I'd 
be really piss*d about this. His own/personal problems/stupidity are 
nothing to do with his backers.

I also use a variety of Chinese PCB manufacturers - PCBway is my current 
favorite for prototypes - and I've never had a problem with them, assuming 
you give them decent Gerbers in the first place :)

I've commercialised a few items over the years, but I gave up being an EE 
professionally many years ago as it's a tough old world. Bring a product to 
market requires a lot of careful planning and risk assessment, both 
commercial and technical - you shouldn't even consider Kickstarter until 
you have a few working prototypes, i.e. Kickstarter is not a way to realise 
your technical fantasies!

Anybody thinking about this, just do a lot of upfront reading first and, 
please, talk to people who've done that & been there - experience is 
everything: Accept that the risk should be all yours, not your backers', Be 
honest, communicate well and regularly (surprises are generally a BAD 
plan), build in contingency (that's not the same as profit, by the way!). 
Backers accept properly managed risk - some projects are bound to fail - 
no-one accepts stupidity or dishonesty.

NIck

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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[gregebert]

I think a lot of kickstarter campaigns are started by people who have a 
good idea, but dont have first-hand experience taking a concept into 
production. It's NOT easy, and it's not cheap.

Every time I finish another clock, my wife asks me why I dont sell them. My 
usual answer is that I make nixie clocks for fun and I do it at my own 
leisure; once I start selling them it's a business with financial & 
schedule constraints. I get too much of that from my day-job (well, it's 
more like a day+night+weekend job). 
---
Regarding that guy's sob-story about his Prius..I own 2 of them and 
they are excellent, trouble-free cars.
Regarding that guy's sob story about Chinese PCB manufactureI've done 
several boards there and they are excellent quality.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Nick]

OK - I just like to know the background if someone is casting aspersions...

Thank you for posting that - I looked on Kickstarter and he'd made the 
above post private, available to backers only.

Not a good story and I presume no funds were ever returned? He could still 
clear his name by refunding folk over time.

Everyone makes mistakes - Lord knows I have - but you need to be upfront & 
honest about it and clear up the mess afterwards.

One to avoid, methinks.

Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Dylan Distasio]

I was a backer, so I will share the last update from KS (which was only
provided after months of backers pleading and cajoling for any type of
update):

Fatal Mistakes

My name is Connor Nishijima. In 2015, I set out to audit the emotions of
the earth via Twitter using a Kickstarter for Emotiscope - then known as
"Moodlight".

It crashed and burned. Here's what I did wrong.

I never planned to make it this far

I only wanted just enough funding for a small batch. Just enough leftover
to start a run on Tindie afterwards or something, so I did the math. $935
was what I needed to make a modest batch, and grow it from there
afterwards. I could handle assembly and shipment on my own in a timely
matter for that kind of run.

I hit that goal in less than 24 hours. Fuck. It kept going, and kept going,
until I was 483% over funded. My first fatal mistake was never planning for
this before starting. I didn't know how to fulfill that size of an order
yet.

Irresponsibility with funds

I own a 2008 2nd Gen Prius. It's a wonderful car, but it had a hiccup.

Driving on a freeway, the car would slow down on its own. No dash warnings.
I turned off the air conditioner and radio. The car kept slowing down and
losing power. It went into safe mode, then all the dash warning lights went
on.

After taking it to a dealer, the regular service tech couldn't figure why
it was failing. There were no codes being generated upon failure. The
dealer got a master tech from Toyota who went over the car and said it was
fine. After the first service tech and I witnessing the failure, I wasn't
confident taking the car. The master tech said he would try driving it
again. After a 20 minute drive, the car failed again.

The diagnosis from the master tech was to replace the Hybrid, Power and the
Transmission Computer. This totaled $1,660 in parts and $1,428 in service.

I had $1,700 of my own savings on hand, but I still needed another $1,300
to cover the cost. My girlfriend at the time didn't drive or work, so this
was the only way for either of us to afford our roof. At the time I was
making ~$1,500 a month at my job, so I figured this would be easy to fill
in with some help from family. I pulled $1,300 from the KS fund, with the
idea of paying it back in within a month. This was my second fatal mistake.

That company I worked for was the original RadioShack. (Now General
Wireless DBA "RadioShack") After filing their Chapter 11 bankruptcy in
February that year for a restructure plan with Sprint's parent company,
they got the approval in September. In October 2015, RadioShack cleaned
house of over 80% it's hourly-waged employees to bring in existing Sprint
staff for massive downsizing.

Now I've fixed my car, and I have no income source. During following month,
I had to live off of KS funds, until landing as an Electrical CSA for
Lowe's, for about the same wages.

So my life was back on track, but now I'm out $1,300 car fund, and $800
rent.

I was making about $1,400 a month on average at my new job, and this wasn't
enough.

Rent - $800
Groceries - $100
Gas - $20
Heating - $80
Electrical - $60
Water - $40
Verizon - $110
Comcast - $60
Pet supplies - $20
Total: $1290

At the end of every month, I would only be left with about $110. At that
rate, it would take 19 months to refill the KS fund to it's original
status, so I knew now that the entire profit margin was gone and I would
have to sell at a loss.

I had no fulfillment company

One thing I realized very quickly after it was too late, was that anyone
whose ever comfortably "made it" on KS used a fulfillment company to handle
shipping. There are companies designed where you can ship your entire stock
to them, and an address list. They charge $2-5 per order, and move
shipments for you. I didn't have one on retainer, because I never expected
the massive overfunding. But I couldn't afford that fee, as things were
already in the hole.

I wasn't cautious with large order proofing

"Might as well keep up appearances", I thought. I pressed on, making a
final revision of the boards, double checking it, and ordering 120. I
checked every trace, and all was well. But this was my third fatal mistake
- I did the mass order without a proof. By forgetting to change out the DRC
of the more-expensive and capable OSHPark fab, I gave a board to a Chinese
factory that couldn't match the OSHPark standard my board passed during
checking. As you may recall, 120 boards arrived with a short to ground near
the LM317, causing it to overheat, overdraw current, and quickly destroy
any USB port they were plugged into. This was a $574 loss.

I kept changing the product after launch

I was starting to make a little more money on the side with some graphic
and web design consultation, so I was able to make back a lot of the
missing money. So I got cocky. I wanted to make the wait worth it for my
backers, so I refined the prototype unit seen in the video to a slimmer
model, with a faster processor, and a painted, translucent 

Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Nick]

Is there a public reference for the Kickstarter issue, or is that heresay?

Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

['Spencer Woodburn' via neonixie-l]

The files are provided to use a laser cutter if you wanted to make one yourself .Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE DroidOn Mar 21, 2017 4:55 PM, Paul Andrews  wrote:Ouch!On Mar 21, 2017, at 5:50 PM, Dylan Distasio  wrote:While I do agree that this looks cool, I would point out that the creator, Connor Nishijima, defrauded Kickstarter backers on his prior ill-fated Moodlight project.  He admitted to using the backer's funds to pay for car repairs, and nothing was ever delivered, nor was there any attempt at making it right with backers.On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Paul Andrews  wrote:Just came across this on Tindie:Here's a link to a cool Youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwXqQos0ZFkI have to say. I really like this.



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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Paul Andrews]

Ouch!

> On Mar 21, 2017, at 5:50 PM, Dylan Distasio  wrote:
> 
> While I do agree that this looks cool, I would point out that the creator, 
> Connor Nishijima, defrauded Kickstarter backers on his prior ill-fated 
> Moodlight project.  He admitted to using the backer's funds to pay for car 
> repairs, and nothing was ever delivered, nor was there any attempt at making 
> it right with backers.
> 
>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Paul Andrews  wrote:
>> Just came across this on Tindie:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> Here's a link to a cool Youtube video: 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwXqQos0ZFk
>> 
>> I have to say. I really like this.
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Re: [neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Dylan Distasio]

While I do agree that this looks cool, I would point out that the creator,
Connor Nishijima, defrauded Kickstarter backers on his prior ill-fated
Moodlight project.  He admitted to using the backer's funds to pay for car
repairs, and nothing was ever delivered, nor was there any attempt at
making it right with backers.

On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 5:37 PM, Paul Andrews  wrote:

> Just came across this on Tindie:
>
>
>
> 
>
>>
>>
> Here's a link to a cool Youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?
> v=FwXqQos0ZFk
>
> I have to say. I really like this.
>
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> msgid/neonixie-l/21621820-6af3-420d-af46-033eb3b75f82%40googlegroups.com
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[neonixie-l] Lixies/Tixie Clock

[Paul Andrews]

Just came across this on Tindie:




>
>
Here's a link to a cool Youtube video: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwXqQos0ZFk

I have to say. I really like this.

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