Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

2021-05-22 Thread Bill Notfaded 
These are really unique neat clock!  There was a guy selling new tubes a 
couple years ago from I think Malaysia of I remember correctly.  I bought a 
few sets of six.  I also have two original calculators that use these.  One 
runs on 4 C batteries and the other plugs in.

Bill

On Sunday, May 16, 2021 at 9:05:45 AM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:

> Sorry for type in previous - all tubes are used one way or another
>
>
> On Sunday, 16 May 2021 at 17:05:03 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:
>
>> All tubes are used on way or another - for now - the central segments of 
>> tubes 3 and 6 are used for flashing colons. They are also used when 
>> displaying other information such as day, month, year, temperature and 
>> pressure.
>>
>> - Richard
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, 16 May 2021 at 09:28:12 UTC+1 iavine wrote:
>>
>>> Really nice
>>>
>>> On 16 May 2021, at 05:25, Richard Scales  wrote:
>>>
>>> I finally got around to lighting these up using a variation of my 
>>> existing panaplex clock kit, I am pleased with they way they turned out.
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>  - Richard
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 11:22:30 UTC Dekatron42 wrote:
>>>
 Datasheet for the very similar MG-19B can be found here: 
 https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/images/elfin-alco-mg-19b-digital-readout-tube-spec-sheet.jpg
 The article referenced here: 
 https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/digital-readouts-radio-electronics-august-1969.htm
  
 where the datasheet can be found can be downloaded here: 
 https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/60s/1969/Radio-Electronics-1969-08.pdf

 Hope this helps some. I haven't read it nor checked it myself.

 /Martin

 On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 06:52:08 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:

>
> That seems like a sound plan - I shall stick to the recommended 
> segment current then via whatever resistor is required - in this case it 
> seems to be fairly well established that this is 350uA per segment and 
> then 
> around 180uA for the decimal points.
> I have no knowledge about current limiting supplies though I'm 
> thinking that this is something I should get myself aware of.
> - RIchard
>
> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 05:11:25 UTC gregebert wrote:
>
>> I've always felt that the two critical parameters for neon displays 
>> of any kind are the operating current and the striking-voltage. Whatever 
>> voltage you get across the tube/bulb when it's operating at the proper 
>> current is not important. Basically, "it is what it is". This is why I 
>> use 
>> current-regulation in all of my designs.
>>
>> The operating current must be high enough to prevent cathode 
>> poisoning, and low enough not to cause destruction (which I assume 
>> sputtering is the dominant mechanism).  The better tube manufacturers, 
>> such 
>> as Burroughs and Dalibor Farny, publish minimum and maximum current in 
>> their datasheets; if typical is not specified then average the min and 
>> max 
>> values and use that.
>>
>> The anode-supply voltage must be higher than the striking voltage, 
>> and should be a bit higher to allow for aging effects. It's OK to use 
>> even 
>> higher voltage for the anode, but it just wastes energy. Even if you 
>> dont 
>> use a current regulator, using a higher anode supply and a larger anode 
>> resistor will approximate the same basic behavior.
>>
>> On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:45:25 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Does anyone here have any tested data on the maintaining voltage and 
>>> current requirements for these panaplex displays?
>>>
>>> Tube-Tester suggests 150V and 0.35mA - which for a 170V supply 
>>> suggests (170-150)/0.35 K = about 56K. If I use that I measure the 
>>> voltage 
>>> across the illuminated segment at around 131V and the current 0.68mA.
>>>
>>> The tube is listed at SwissNixe - where I think that there could be 
>>> a type as it lists the maintaining voltage at 50V (perhaps it should be 
>>> 150V?) and the proposed series resistor value looks like it was 
>>> computed 
>>> from a 30V voltage drop @ .35mA from a supply of 180V which is also 
>>> listed.
>>>
>>> I recompute for a maintaining voltage of 130V and a current of 
>>> 0.35mA, r=(170-130)/0.35 K = 114K, so I use that and measure the 
>>> voltage 
>>> across the segment to be  127V and current of 0.37mA - both tests 
>>> appear to 
>>> illuminate the segment of the display sufficiently.
>>>
>>> Would anyone using these (or even if you are not using them) care to 
>>> suggest what the real parameters might be for the recommended 
>>> maintaining 
>>> voltage and current for maintaining a healthy lifestyle for these tubes?
>>>
>>> - Richard

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

2021-05-16 Thread Richard Scales 
Sorry for type in previous - all tubes are used one way or another


On Sunday, 16 May 2021 at 17:05:03 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:

> All tubes are used on way or another - for now - the central segments of 
> tubes 3 and 6 are used for flashing colons. They are also used when 
> displaying other information such as day, month, year, temperature and 
> pressure.
>
> - Richard
>
>
> On Sunday, 16 May 2021 at 09:28:12 UTC+1 iavine wrote:
>
>> Really nice
>>
>> On 16 May 2021, at 05:25, Richard Scales  wrote:
>>
>> I finally got around to lighting these up using a variation of my 
>> existing panaplex clock kit, I am pleased with they way they turned out.
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>  - Richard
>>
>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 11:22:30 UTC Dekatron42 wrote:
>>
>>> Datasheet for the very similar MG-19B can be found here: 
>>> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/images/elfin-alco-mg-19b-digital-readout-tube-spec-sheet.jpg
>>> The article referenced here: 
>>> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/digital-readouts-radio-electronics-august-1969.htm
>>>  
>>> where the datasheet can be found can be downloaded here: 
>>> https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/60s/1969/Radio-Electronics-1969-08.pdf
>>>
>>> Hope this helps some. I haven't read it nor checked it myself.
>>>
>>> /Martin
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 06:52:08 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:
>>>

 That seems like a sound plan - I shall stick to the recommended segment 
 current then via whatever resistor is required - in this case it seems to 
 be fairly well established that this is 350uA per segment and then around 
 180uA for the decimal points.
 I have no knowledge about current limiting supplies though I'm thinking 
 that this is something I should get myself aware of.
 - RIchard

 On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 05:11:25 UTC gregebert wrote:

> I've always felt that the two critical parameters for neon displays of 
> any kind are the operating current and the striking-voltage. Whatever 
> voltage you get across the tube/bulb when it's operating at the proper 
> current is not important. Basically, "it is what it is". This is why I 
> use 
> current-regulation in all of my designs.
>
> The operating current must be high enough to prevent cathode 
> poisoning, and low enough not to cause destruction (which I assume 
> sputtering is the dominant mechanism).  The better tube manufacturers, 
> such 
> as Burroughs and Dalibor Farny, publish minimum and maximum current in 
> their datasheets; if typical is not specified then average the min and 
> max 
> values and use that.
>
> The anode-supply voltage must be higher than the striking voltage, and 
> should be a bit higher to allow for aging effects. It's OK to use even 
> higher voltage for the anode, but it just wastes energy. Even if you dont 
> use a current regulator, using a higher anode supply and a larger anode 
> resistor will approximate the same basic behavior.
>
> On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:45:25 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> Does anyone here have any tested data on the maintaining voltage and 
>> current requirements for these panaplex displays?
>>
>> Tube-Tester suggests 150V and 0.35mA - which for a 170V supply 
>> suggests (170-150)/0.35 K = about 56K. If I use that I measure the 
>> voltage 
>> across the illuminated segment at around 131V and the current 0.68mA.
>>
>> The tube is listed at SwissNixe - where I think that there could be a 
>> type as it lists the maintaining voltage at 50V (perhaps it should be 
>> 150V?) and the proposed series resistor value looks like it was computed 
>> from a 30V voltage drop @ .35mA from a supply of 180V which is also 
>> listed.
>>
>> I recompute for a maintaining voltage of 130V and a current of 
>> 0.35mA, r=(170-130)/0.35 K = 114K, so I use that and measure the voltage 
>> across the segment to be  127V and current of 0.37mA - both tests appear 
>> to 
>> illuminate the segment of the display sufficiently.
>>
>> Would anyone using these (or even if you are not using them) care to 
>> suggest what the real parameters might be for the recommended 
>> maintaining 
>> voltage and current for maintaining a healthy lifestyle for these tubes?
>>
>> - Richard
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/88454965-ae88-417e-bca5-2be5cc70319cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>>

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

2021-05-16 Thread Richard Scales 
All tubes are used on way or another - for now - the central segments of 
tubes 3 and 6 are used for flashing colons. They are also used when 
displaying other information such as day, month, year, temperature and 
pressure.

- Richard


On Sunday, 16 May 2021 at 09:28:12 UTC+1 iavine wrote:

> Really nice
>
> On 16 May 2021, at 05:25, Richard Scales  wrote:
>
> I finally got around to lighting these up using a variation of my 
> existing panaplex clock kit, I am pleased with they way they turned out.
>
>
> 
>
>  - Richard
>
> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 11:22:30 UTC Dekatron42 wrote:
>
>> Datasheet for the very similar MG-19B can be found here: 
>> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/images/elfin-alco-mg-19b-digital-readout-tube-spec-sheet.jpg
>> The article referenced here: 
>> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/digital-readouts-radio-electronics-august-1969.htm
>>  
>> where the datasheet can be found can be downloaded here: 
>> https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/60s/1969/Radio-Electronics-1969-08.pdf
>>
>> Hope this helps some. I haven't read it nor checked it myself.
>>
>> /Martin
>>
>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 06:52:08 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That seems like a sound plan - I shall stick to the recommended segment 
>>> current then via whatever resistor is required - in this case it seems to 
>>> be fairly well established that this is 350uA per segment and then around 
>>> 180uA for the decimal points.
>>> I have no knowledge about current limiting supplies though I'm thinking 
>>> that this is something I should get myself aware of.
>>> - RIchard
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 05:11:25 UTC gregebert wrote:
>>>
 I've always felt that the two critical parameters for neon displays of 
 any kind are the operating current and the striking-voltage. Whatever 
 voltage you get across the tube/bulb when it's operating at the proper 
 current is not important. Basically, "it is what it is". This is why I use 
 current-regulation in all of my designs.

 The operating current must be high enough to prevent cathode poisoning, 
 and low enough not to cause destruction (which I assume sputtering is the 
 dominant mechanism).  The better tube manufacturers, such as Burroughs and 
 Dalibor Farny, publish minimum and maximum current in their datasheets; if 
 typical is not specified then average the min and max values and use that.

 The anode-supply voltage must be higher than the striking voltage, and 
 should be a bit higher to allow for aging effects. It's OK to use even 
 higher voltage for the anode, but it just wastes energy. Even if you dont 
 use a current regulator, using a higher anode supply and a larger anode 
 resistor will approximate the same basic behavior.

 On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:45:25 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:

> Hello,
> Does anyone here have any tested data on the maintaining voltage and 
> current requirements for these panaplex displays?
>
> Tube-Tester suggests 150V and 0.35mA - which for a 170V supply 
> suggests (170-150)/0.35 K = about 56K. If I use that I measure the 
> voltage 
> across the illuminated segment at around 131V and the current 0.68mA.
>
> The tube is listed at SwissNixe - where I think that there could be a 
> type as it lists the maintaining voltage at 50V (perhaps it should be 
> 150V?) and the proposed series resistor value looks like it was computed 
> from a 30V voltage drop @ .35mA from a supply of 180V which is also 
> listed.
>
> I recompute for a maintaining voltage of 130V and a current of 0.35mA, 
> r=(170-130)/0.35 K = 114K, so I use that and measure the voltage across 
> the 
> segment to be  127V and current of 0.37mA - both tests appear to 
> illuminate 
> the segment of the display sufficiently.
>
> Would anyone using these (or even if you are not using them) care to 
> suggest what the real parameters might be for the recommended maintaining 
> voltage and current for maintaining a healthy lifestyle for these tubes?
>
> - Richard
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/88454965-ae88-417e-bca5-2be5cc70319cn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
> 
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

2021-05-16 Thread 'Ian' via neonixie-l 
Really nice

> On 16 May 2021, at 05:25, Richard Scales  wrote:
> 
> I finally got around to lighting these up using a variation of my existing 
> panaplex clock kit, I am pleased with they way they turned out.
> 
> 
> 
>  - Richard
> 
>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 11:22:30 UTC Dekatron42 wrote:
>> Datasheet for the very similar MG-19B can be found here: 
>> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/images/elfin-alco-mg-19b-digital-readout-tube-spec-sheet.jpg
>> The article referenced here: 
>> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/digital-readouts-radio-electronics-august-1969.htm
>>  where the datasheet can be found can be downloaded here: 
>> https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/60s/1969/Radio-Electronics-1969-08.pdf
>> 
>> Hope this helps some. I haven't read it nor checked it myself.
>> 
>> /Martin
>> 
>>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 06:52:08 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:
>>> 
>>> That seems like a sound plan - I shall stick to the recommended segment 
>>> current then via whatever resistor is required - in this case it seems to 
>>> be fairly well established that this is 350uA per segment and then around 
>>> 180uA for the decimal points.
>>> I have no knowledge about current limiting supplies though I'm thinking 
>>> that this is something I should get myself aware of.
>>> - RIchard
>>> 
 On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 05:11:25 UTC gregebert wrote:
 I've always felt that the two critical parameters for neon displays of any 
 kind are the operating current and the striking-voltage. Whatever voltage 
 you get across the tube/bulb when it's operating at the proper current is 
 not important. Basically, "it is what it is". This is why I use 
 current-regulation in all of my designs.
 
 The operating current must be high enough to prevent cathode poisoning, 
 and low enough not to cause destruction (which I assume sputtering is the 
 dominant mechanism).  The better tube manufacturers, such as Burroughs and 
 Dalibor Farny, publish minimum and maximum current in their datasheets; if 
 typical is not specified then average the min and max values and use that.
 
 The anode-supply voltage must be higher than the striking voltage, and 
 should be a bit higher to allow for aging effects. It's OK to use even 
 higher voltage for the anode, but it just wastes energy. Even if you dont 
 use a current regulator, using a higher anode supply and a larger anode 
 resistor will approximate the same basic behavior.
 
> On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:45:25 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:
> Hello,
> Does anyone here have any tested data on the maintaining voltage and 
> current requirements for these panaplex displays?
> 
> Tube-Tester suggests 150V and 0.35mA - which for a 170V supply suggests 
> (170-150)/0.35 K = about 56K. If I use that I measure the voltage across 
> the illuminated segment at around 131V and the current 0.68mA.
> 
> The tube is listed at SwissNixe - where I think that there could be a 
> type as it lists the maintaining voltage at 50V (perhaps it should be 
> 150V?) and the proposed series resistor value looks like it was computed 
> from a 30V voltage drop @ .35mA from a supply of 180V which is also 
> listed.
> 
> I recompute for a maintaining voltage of 130V and a current of 0.35mA, 
> r=(170-130)/0.35 K = 114K, so I use that and measure the voltage across 
> the segment to be  127V and current of 0.37mA - both tests appear to 
> illuminate the segment of the display sufficiently.
> 
> Would anyone using these (or even if you are not using them) care to 
> suggest what the real parameters might be for the recommended maintaining 
> voltage and current for maintaining a healthy lifestyle for these tubes?
> 
> - Richard
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/88454965-ae88-417e-bca5-2be5cc70319cn%40googlegroups.com.
> 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

2021-05-16 Thread newxito 
Great work!  Are tubes 3 and 6 used to display the full date?

>

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[neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

2021-05-15 Thread Richard Scales 
I finally got around to lighting these up using a variation of my existing 
panaplex clock kit, I am pleased with they way they turned out.

[image: MG-17F.JPG]

 - Richard

On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 11:22:30 UTC Dekatron42 wrote:

> Datasheet for the very similar MG-19B can be found here: 
> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/images/elfin-alco-mg-19b-digital-readout-tube-spec-sheet.jpg
> The article referenced here: 
> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/digital-readouts-radio-electronics-august-1969.htm
>  
> where the datasheet can be found can be downloaded here: 
> https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/60s/1969/Radio-Electronics-1969-08.pdf
>
> Hope this helps some. I haven't read it nor checked it myself.
>
> /Martin
>
> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 06:52:08 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:
>
>>
>> That seems like a sound plan - I shall stick to the recommended segment 
>> current then via whatever resistor is required - in this case it seems to 
>> be fairly well established that this is 350uA per segment and then around 
>> 180uA for the decimal points.
>> I have no knowledge about current limiting supplies though I'm thinking 
>> that this is something I should get myself aware of.
>> - RIchard
>>
>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 05:11:25 UTC gregebert wrote:
>>
>>> I've always felt that the two critical parameters for neon displays of 
>>> any kind are the operating current and the striking-voltage. Whatever 
>>> voltage you get across the tube/bulb when it's operating at the proper 
>>> current is not important. Basically, "it is what it is". This is why I use 
>>> current-regulation in all of my designs.
>>>
>>> The operating current must be high enough to prevent cathode poisoning, 
>>> and low enough not to cause destruction (which I assume sputtering is the 
>>> dominant mechanism).  The better tube manufacturers, such as Burroughs and 
>>> Dalibor Farny, publish minimum and maximum current in their datasheets; if 
>>> typical is not specified then average the min and max values and use that.
>>>
>>> The anode-supply voltage must be higher than the striking voltage, and 
>>> should be a bit higher to allow for aging effects. It's OK to use even 
>>> higher voltage for the anode, but it just wastes energy. Even if you dont 
>>> use a current regulator, using a higher anode supply and a larger anode 
>>> resistor will approximate the same basic behavior.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:45:25 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:
>>>
 Hello,
 Does anyone here have any tested data on the maintaining voltage and 
 current requirements for these panaplex displays?

 Tube-Tester suggests 150V and 0.35mA - which for a 170V supply suggests 
 (170-150)/0.35 K = about 56K. If I use that I measure the voltage across 
 the illuminated segment at around 131V and the current 0.68mA.

 The tube is listed at SwissNixe - where I think that there could be a 
 type as it lists the maintaining voltage at 50V (perhaps it should be 
 150V?) and the proposed series resistor value looks like it was computed 
 from a 30V voltage drop @ .35mA from a supply of 180V which is also listed.

 I recompute for a maintaining voltage of 130V and a current of 0.35mA, 
 r=(170-130)/0.35 K = 114K, so I use that and measure the voltage across 
 the 
 segment to be  127V and current of 0.37mA - both tests appear to 
 illuminate 
 the segment of the display sufficiently.

 Would anyone using these (or even if you are not using them) care to 
 suggest what the real parameters might be for the recommended maintaining 
 voltage and current for maintaining a healthy lifestyle for these tubes?

 - Richard



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[neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

2021-03-21 Thread Dekatron42 
Datasheet for the very similar MG-19B can be found here: 
https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/images/elfin-alco-mg-19b-digital-readout-tube-spec-sheet.jpg
The article referenced here: 
https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/digital-readouts-radio-electronics-august-1969.htm
 
where the datasheet can be found can be downloaded here: 
https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/60s/1969/Radio-Electronics-1969-08.pdf

Hope this helps some. I haven't read it nor checked it myself.

/Martin

On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 06:52:08 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:

>
> That seems like a sound plan - I shall stick to the recommended segment 
> current then via whatever resistor is required - in this case it seems to 
> be fairly well established that this is 350uA per segment and then around 
> 180uA for the decimal points.
> I have no knowledge about current limiting supplies though I'm thinking 
> that this is something I should get myself aware of.
> - RIchard
>
> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 05:11:25 UTC gregebert wrote:
>
>> I've always felt that the two critical parameters for neon displays of 
>> any kind are the operating current and the striking-voltage. Whatever 
>> voltage you get across the tube/bulb when it's operating at the proper 
>> current is not important. Basically, "it is what it is". This is why I use 
>> current-regulation in all of my designs.
>>
>> The operating current must be high enough to prevent cathode poisoning, 
>> and low enough not to cause destruction (which I assume sputtering is the 
>> dominant mechanism).  The better tube manufacturers, such as Burroughs and 
>> Dalibor Farny, publish minimum and maximum current in their datasheets; if 
>> typical is not specified then average the min and max values and use that.
>>
>> The anode-supply voltage must be higher than the striking voltage, and 
>> should be a bit higher to allow for aging effects. It's OK to use even 
>> higher voltage for the anode, but it just wastes energy. Even if you dont 
>> use a current regulator, using a higher anode supply and a larger anode 
>> resistor will approximate the same basic behavior.
>>
>> On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:45:25 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>> Does anyone here have any tested data on the maintaining voltage and 
>>> current requirements for these panaplex displays?
>>>
>>> Tube-Tester suggests 150V and 0.35mA - which for a 170V supply suggests 
>>> (170-150)/0.35 K = about 56K. If I use that I measure the voltage across 
>>> the illuminated segment at around 131V and the current 0.68mA.
>>>
>>> The tube is listed at SwissNixe - where I think that there could be a 
>>> type as it lists the maintaining voltage at 50V (perhaps it should be 
>>> 150V?) and the proposed series resistor value looks like it was computed 
>>> from a 30V voltage drop @ .35mA from a supply of 180V which is also listed.
>>>
>>> I recompute for a maintaining voltage of 130V and a current of 0.35mA, 
>>> r=(170-130)/0.35 K = 114K, so I use that and measure the voltage across the 
>>> segment to be  127V and current of 0.37mA - both tests appear to illuminate 
>>> the segment of the display sufficiently.
>>>
>>> Would anyone using these (or even if you are not using them) care to 
>>> suggest what the real parameters might be for the recommended maintaining 
>>> voltage and current for maintaining a healthy lifestyle for these tubes?
>>>
>>> - Richard
>>>
>>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

2021-03-20 Thread Richard Scales 

That seems like a sound plan - I shall stick to the recommended segment 
current then via whatever resistor is required - in this case it seems to 
be fairly well established that this is 350uA per segment and then around 
180uA for the decimal points.
I have no knowledge about current limiting supplies though I'm thinking 
that this is something I should get myself aware of.
- RIchard

On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 05:11:25 UTC gregebert wrote:

> I've always felt that the two critical parameters for neon displays of any 
> kind are the operating current and the striking-voltage. Whatever voltage 
> you get across the tube/bulb when it's operating at the proper current is 
> not important. Basically, "it is what it is". This is why I use 
> current-regulation in all of my designs.
>
> The operating current must be high enough to prevent cathode poisoning, 
> and low enough not to cause destruction (which I assume sputtering is the 
> dominant mechanism).  The better tube manufacturers, such as Burroughs and 
> Dalibor Farny, publish minimum and maximum current in their datasheets; if 
> typical is not specified then average the min and max values and use that.
>
> The anode-supply voltage must be higher than the striking voltage, and 
> should be a bit higher to allow for aging effects. It's OK to use even 
> higher voltage for the anode, but it just wastes energy. Even if you dont 
> use a current regulator, using a higher anode supply and a larger anode 
> resistor will approximate the same basic behavior.
>
> On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:45:25 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> Does anyone here have any tested data on the maintaining voltage and 
>> current requirements for these panaplex displays?
>>
>> Tube-Tester suggests 150V and 0.35mA - which for a 170V supply suggests 
>> (170-150)/0.35 K = about 56K. If I use that I measure the voltage across 
>> the illuminated segment at around 131V and the current 0.68mA.
>>
>> The tube is listed at SwissNixe - where I think that there could be a 
>> type as it lists the maintaining voltage at 50V (perhaps it should be 
>> 150V?) and the proposed series resistor value looks like it was computed 
>> from a 30V voltage drop @ .35mA from a supply of 180V which is also listed.
>>
>> I recompute for a maintaining voltage of 130V and a current of 0.35mA, 
>> r=(170-130)/0.35 K = 114K, so I use that and measure the voltage across the 
>> segment to be  127V and current of 0.37mA - both tests appear to illuminate 
>> the segment of the display sufficiently.
>>
>> Would anyone using these (or even if you are not using them) care to 
>> suggest what the real parameters might be for the recommended maintaining 
>> voltage and current for maintaining a healthy lifestyle for these tubes?
>>
>> - Richard
>>
>>

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[neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

2021-03-20 Thread gregebert 
I've always felt that the two critical parameters for neon displays of any 
kind are the operating current and the striking-voltage. Whatever voltage 
you get across the tube/bulb when it's operating at the proper current is 
not important. Basically, "it is what it is". This is why I use 
current-regulation in all of my designs.

The operating current must be high enough to prevent cathode poisoning, and 
low enough not to cause destruction (which I assume sputtering is the 
dominant mechanism).  The better tube manufacturers, such as Burroughs and 
Dalibor Farny, publish minimum and maximum current in their datasheets; if 
typical is not specified then average the min and max values and use that.

The anode-supply voltage must be higher than the striking voltage, and 
should be a bit higher to allow for aging effects. It's OK to use even 
higher voltage for the anode, but it just wastes energy. Even if you dont 
use a current regulator, using a higher anode supply and a larger anode 
resistor will approximate the same basic behavior.

On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:45:25 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:

> Hello,
> Does anyone here have any tested data on the maintaining voltage and 
> current requirements for these panaplex displays?
>
> Tube-Tester suggests 150V and 0.35mA - which for a 170V supply suggests 
> (170-150)/0.35 K = about 56K. If I use that I measure the voltage across 
> the illuminated segment at around 131V and the current 0.68mA.
>
> The tube is listed at SwissNixe - where I think that there could be a type 
> as it lists the maintaining voltage at 50V (perhaps it should be 150V?) and 
> the proposed series resistor value looks like it was computed from a 30V 
> voltage drop @ .35mA from a supply of 180V which is also listed.
>
> I recompute for a maintaining voltage of 130V and a current of 0.35mA, 
> r=(170-130)/0.35 K = 114K, so I use that and measure the voltage across the 
> segment to be  127V and current of 0.37mA - both tests appear to illuminate 
> the segment of the display sufficiently.
>
> Would anyone using these (or even if you are not using them) care to 
> suggest what the real parameters might be for the recommended maintaining 
> voltage and current for maintaining a healthy lifestyle for these tubes?
>
> - Richard
>
>

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