Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-14 Thread aharon 
Hiyas!

Hope this finds you all well!

This thread has, in my view, perhaps developed rather interestingly. Feels
as if it has a life of its own. It might allow a person to imagine a way
in which this thread, immanently, has its' own developmental desire. A
desire for a future, however short lived.. ;)

Here are a few reflections:

Personally, I think Michael's point, which I think Rob agreed with,
regarding the need to be Very sceptical about statements, processes and
activities which might use the popularity of OOO only for petty career
advances. Indeed, such moves are a waste of time! I hope the conference
might actually address that kind of concerns so it questions itself, and
indeed its premise..

It was interesting for me to read Marc's earlier comment, regarding
legalities, because it addressed, perhaps for my tainted mind only, the
issue of legitimacy - indeed, the legitimacy of rights. If a right can be
given - a right for free art/health/education/culture/science - can be
taken as we can all experience on certain levels. (..an interesting
historical view, btw, re 18 century britain..) And that, I think, the
question of rights, legitimacies, and how we practice them socially,
culturally, politically and aesthetically - is precisely what I thought
the kind of stuff the conference might be addressing.
This, in my mind, is not an OOO fashion kind of animal.. For example, some
people who recalled events such as the Crystal Night, had a shiver down
the spine hearing about Beatles records being burnt, following Lennon's
Jesus remark. That shiver was to do with the rights of cultural related
objects. Because the process of mass production, I think that such objects
exist differently to, for example, the relatively recently destroyed
buddha statues in afganistan. Maybe because of these 2 processes of Being,
the objects have different kind of lives? Different kinds of possibilities
and therefore a sense of "rights"?
How about words? Do they have rights? Some people, again, unrelated to
OOO, have been killed - or seriously threatened to have shorter lives -
because they staged a show for the wrong word/s at the wrong time..
Perhaps through such questions, of rights and legitimacies, we can search
the futility of that particular line of questioning? (..does it  not go
around like a dog & tail..) Perhaps we can do better - or more
interestingly - with an emancipatory paradigm? Maybe that of desires? Or
the one made of trajectories and inhibitions?

There is an argument that as a species we've developed empathy with other
entities because it helps killing.
Understanding your enemy's movements better means you can anticipate
better, and the same goes for hunting..
However, beside the killing, empathy might have other qualities which,
perhaps by evolution rather than original developmental intent, allow
people to understand processes well beyond the central limitation of one's
ego?

As Julian Weaver - http://www.hypo.io/ - in his introduction to Not For
for Human Consumption http://nfhc.crisap.org/ noted very succinctly -
OOO's relevance is not so much about objects as it is about the Process of
removing & exposing humans' imagined centrality. As Julian observed, there
is a process of re-orienting ourselves in non-centralised roles, which we
tend to benefit from. For example, people found it hard to imagine earth
being universally non-centralised. Maybe because like little children, we
have a tendency to want stuff revolving around us?
In that sense, the ability to imagine being an equal - and that is where
the legalistic sense, perhaps false one, of rights might come from - in a
network is perhaps/seemingly immanent to the very process of continued
becoming..
(..not sure why am using "network".. can imagine other link constellation
types.. perhaps "network" is an easy metaphor of one for now?)

>From a few discussions I have had with the philosopher Hilan Bensussan -
http://anarchai.blogspot.co.uk/ who, btw, will be blighted come
March/April for
http://performancephilosophy.ning.com/events/what-is-performance-philosophy
- it seems to me that perhaps the process of ontology's Orientation is in
fact what might be the element that links the rather different
philosophers and approaches under what came to be a sort of temporary
convenient roof of OOO..

OOOPs.. A bit longer than I thought it might be..

Have a fab evening!

Cheers and all the best!

Aharon
xx

> On 12/02/13 15:27, Simon Biggs wrote:
>> Had an interesting conversation with Talan Memmott in Amsterdam this
>> weekend about OOO and agreed that the focus on things overlooks the
>> importance of process and the consequent mutability of things. This is
>> where OOO's reductivist nature and flaws become most apparent.
>
> I quite like the idea of flat ontology, it makes sense under
> materialism. But  neither sneering nor screaming at Alex Galloway's
> critique really answers it.
>
>> So, you are neither a thing nor an object but a process within
>> immanen

Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread Rob Myers 
On 12/02/13 15:27, Simon Biggs wrote:
> Had an interesting conversation with Talan Memmott in Amsterdam this
> weekend about OOO and agreed that the focus on things overlooks the
> importance of process and the consequent mutability of things. This is
> where OOO's reductivist nature and flaws become most apparent.

I quite like the idea of flat ontology, it makes sense under 
materialism. But  neither sneering nor screaming at Alex Galloway's 
critique really answers it.

> So, you are neither a thing nor an object but a process within
> immanence (that's a word will drive OOO people mad).

The last chapter of:

http://www.furtherfield.org/features/reviews/philosophy-software

has some nice meditations on *streams*, and mentions Husserl's "comets".

And yes I've seen the immanence hate in OOO. Surely immanence is just 
another object in Meinong's Jungle? ;-)

- Rob.
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread Rob Myers 
On 12/02/13 15:49, marc garrett wrote:
> Just to let you know,
>
> I was not calling Rob or Simon, prog-rock fans.

[Hides his copy of Jeff Wayne's Musical Version Of The War Of The Worlds...]

- Rob.
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread james 
Could be worse, we could have peter andre as minister of culture ;-)

The people of malta aren't too happy about it!

Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

-Original Message-
From: netbehaviour 
Sender: netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 16:32:39 
To: 
Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity

Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of
 Machines

this is my point, don't let the proggers dictate our culture ;-)

marc
> I always thought prog-rock was a bit icky.
>
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>
> -Original Message-
> From: marc garrett 
> Sender: netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org
> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 15:46:22
> To: 
> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>   
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of
>   Machines
>
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread netbehaviour 
this is my point, don't let the proggers dictate our culture ;-)

marc
> I always thought prog-rock was a bit icky.
>
> Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange
>
> -Original Message-
> From: marc garrett 
> Sender: netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org
> Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 15:46:22
> To: 
> Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>   
> Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of
>   Machines
>
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Other reviews,articles,interviews
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Furtherfield – online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing,
discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
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Furtherfield Gallery – Finsbury Park (London).
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread james 
I always thought prog-rock was a bit icky.

Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

-Original Message-
From: marc garrett 
Sender: netbehaviour-boun...@netbehaviour.org
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2013 15:46:22 
To: 
Reply-To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity

Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of
 Machines

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread Simon Biggs 
Wha?



On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:49, marc garrett wrote:

> Just to let you know,
> 
> I was not calling Rob or Simon, prog-rock fans. It was meant for the ooo'ers 
> who miss the goo's...
> 
> marc
>> Thanks Simon,
>> 
>> Nothing worse than allowing the 'prog-rock' contingency to term things or 
>> anything for that matter, they always miss out the 'goo'...
>> 
>> marc
>> 
>> 
>>> Had an interesting conversation with Talan Memmott in Amsterdam this 
>>> weekend about OOO and agreed that the focus on things overlooks the 
>>> importance of process and the consequent mutability of things. This is 
>>> where OOO's reductivist nature and flaws become most apparent. So, you are 
>>> neither a thing nor an object but a process within immanence (that's a word 
>>> will drive OOO people mad).
>>> 
>>> best
>>> 
>>> Simon
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:15, marc garrett wrote:
>>> 
 are you calling me a thing or an object?
 
 m
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 04:58:44 -0800 (PST), Michael Szpakowski wrote:
>> What bothers me about the attempt to attribute rights to non-sentient
>> things, however playfully and career advancing a move it might be,
>> is that it stands to devalue the notion of rights where they really
>> matter: sentient creatures and especially humans.
> Oh but everything is just an object.
> 
> See Object Oriented Ontology ad nauseam.
> 
> - Rob.
> 
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> 
 
 
 -- 
 --->
 
 A living - breathing - thriving networked neighbourhood -
 proud of free culture - claiming it with others ;)
 
 Other reviews,articles,interviews
 http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php
 
 Furtherfield – online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing,
 discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
 intersections of art, technology and social change.
 http://www.furtherfield.org
 
 Furtherfield Gallery – Finsbury Park (London).
 http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery
 
 Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
 http://www.netbehaviour.org
 
 http://identi.ca/furtherfield
 http://twitter.com/furtherfield
 
 ___
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> Simon Biggs
>>> si...@littlepig.org.uk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ @SimonBiggsUK skype: 
>>> simonbiggsuk
>>> 
>>> s.bi...@ed.ac.uk Edinburgh College of Art, University of Edinburgh
>>> http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/edinburgh-college-art/school-of-art/staff/staff?person_id=182&cw_xml=profile.php
>>> http://www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/en/persons/simon-biggs%285dfcaf34-56b1-4452-9100-aaab96935e31%29.html
>>> 
>>> http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/  http://www.elmcip.net/  
>>> http://www.movingtargets.org.uk/  http://designinaction.com/
>>> MSc by Research in Interdisciplinary Creative Practices
>>> http://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/postgraduate/degrees?id=656&cw_xml=details.php
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
>>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> --->
>> 
>> A living - breathing - thriving networked neighbourhood - 
>> proud of free culture - claiming it with others ;)
>> 
>> Other reviews,articles,interviews
>> http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php
>> 
>> Furtherfield – online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing, 
>> discussing and learning about experimental practices at the 
>> intersections of art, technology and social change.
>> http://www.furtherfield.org
>> 
>> Furtherfield Gallery – Finsbury Park (London).
>> http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery
>> 
>> Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
>> http://www.netbehaviour.org
>> 
>> http://identi.ca/furtherfield
>> http://twitter.com/furtherfield
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> 
> 
> -- 
> --->
> 
> A living - breathing - thriving networked neighbourhood - 
> proud of free culture - claiming it with others ;)
> 
> Other reviews,articles,interviews
> http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php
> 
> Furtherfield – online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing, 
> discussing and learning about experimental practices at the 
> intersections of art, technology and social change.
> http://www.furtherfield.org
> 
> Furtherfield Gallery – Finsbury Park (London).
> http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery
> 
> Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
> http://www.netbehaviour.org
> 
> http://identi.ca/furthe

Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread marc garrett 

Just to let you know,

I was not calling Rob or Simon, prog-rock fans. It was meant for the 
ooo'ers who miss the goo's...


marc

Thanks Simon,

Nothing worse than allowing the 'prog-rock' contingency to term things 
or anything for that matter, they always miss out the 'goo'...


marc


Had an interesting conversation with Talan Memmott in Amsterdam this 
weekend about OOO and agreed that the focus on things overlooks the 
importance of process and the consequent mutability of things. This 
is where OOO's reductivist nature and flaws become most apparent. So, 
you are neither a thing nor an object but a process within immanence 
(that's a word will drive OOO people mad).


best

Simon


On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:15, marc garrett wrote:


are you calling me a thing or an object?

m

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 04:58:44 -0800 (PST), Michael Szpakowski wrote:

What bothers me about the attempt to attribute rights to non-sentient
things, however playfully and career advancing a move it might be,
is that it stands to devalue the notion of rights where they really
matter: sentient creatures and especially humans.

Oh but everything is just an object.

See Object Oriented Ontology ad nauseam.

- Rob.

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Other reviews,articles,interviews
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Furtherfield -- online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing,
discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
intersections of art, technology and social change.
http://www.furtherfield.org

Furtherfield Gallery -- Finsbury Park (London).
http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery

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si...@littlepig.org.uk  
http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ @SimonBiggsUK skype: simonbiggsuk


s.bi...@ed.ac.uk  Edinburgh College of Art, 
University of Edinburgh

http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/edinburgh-college-art/school-of-art/staff/staff?person_id=182&cw_xml=profile.php
http://www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/en/persons/simon-biggs%285dfcaf34-56b1-4452-9100-aaab96935e31%29.html

http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/ http://www.elmcip.net/ 
http://www.movingtargets.org.uk/ http://designinaction.com/

MSc by Research in Interdisciplinary Creative Practices
http://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/postgraduate/degrees?id=656&cw_xml=details.php



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Other reviews,articles,interviews
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Furtherfield -- online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing,
discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
intersections of art, technology and social change.
http://www.furtherfield.org

Furtherfield Gallery -- Finsbury Park (London).
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Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
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--
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A living - breathing - thriving networked neighbourhood -
proud of free culture - claiming it with others ;)

Other reviews,articles,interviews
http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php

Furtherfield -- online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing,
discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
intersections of art, technology and social change.
http://www.furtherfield.org

Furtherfield Gallery -- Finsbury Park (London).
http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery

Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread marc garrett 

Thanks Simon,

Nothing worse than allowing the 'prog-rock' contingency to term things 
or anything for that matter, they always miss out the 'goo'...


marc


Had an interesting conversation with Talan Memmott in Amsterdam this 
weekend about OOO and agreed that the focus on things overlooks the 
importance of process and the consequent mutability of things. This is 
where OOO's reductivist nature and flaws become most apparent. So, you 
are neither a thing nor an object but a process within immanence 
(that's a word will drive OOO people mad).


best

Simon


On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:15, marc garrett wrote:


are you calling me a thing or an object?

m

On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 04:58:44 -0800 (PST), Michael Szpakowski wrote:

What bothers me about the attempt to attribute rights to non-sentient
things, however playfully and career advancing a move it might be,
is that it stands to devalue the notion of rights where they really
matter: sentient creatures and especially humans.

Oh but everything is just an object.

See Object Oriented Ontology ad nauseam.

- Rob.

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--
--->

A living - breathing - thriving networked neighbourhood -
proud of free culture - claiming it with others ;)

Other reviews,articles,interviews
http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php

Furtherfield -- online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing,
discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
intersections of art, technology and social change.
http://www.furtherfield.org

Furtherfield Gallery -- Finsbury Park (London).
http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery

Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
http://www.netbehaviour.org

http://identi.ca/furtherfield
http://twitter.com/furtherfield

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Simon Biggs
si...@littlepig.org.uk  
http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ @SimonBiggsUK skype: simonbiggsuk


s.bi...@ed.ac.uk  Edinburgh College of Art, 
University of Edinburgh

http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/edinburgh-college-art/school-of-art/staff/staff?person_id=182&cw_xml=profile.php
http://www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/en/persons/simon-biggs%285dfcaf34-56b1-4452-9100-aaab96935e31%29.html

http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/  http://www.elmcip.net/ 
 http://www.movingtargets.org.uk/  http://designinaction.com/

MSc by Research in Interdisciplinary Creative Practices
http://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/postgraduate/degrees?id=656&cw_xml=details.php



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Other reviews,articles,interviews
http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php

Furtherfield -- online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing,
discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
intersections of art, technology and social change.
http://www.furtherfield.org

Furtherfield Gallery -- Finsbury Park (London).
http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery

Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
http://www.netbehaviour.org

http://identi.ca/furtherfield
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread Simon Biggs 
Had an interesting conversation with Talan Memmott in Amsterdam this weekend 
about OOO and agreed that the focus on things overlooks the importance of 
process and the consequent mutability of things. This is where OOO's 
reductivist nature and flaws become most apparent. So, you are neither a thing 
nor an object but a process within immanence (that's a word will drive OOO 
people mad).

best

Simon


On 12 Feb 2013, at 15:15, marc garrett wrote:

> are you calling me a thing or an object?
> 
> m
>> On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 04:58:44 -0800 (PST), Michael Szpakowski wrote:
>>> What bothers me about the attempt to attribute rights to non-sentient
>>> things, however playfully and career advancing a move it might be,
>>> is that it stands to devalue the notion of rights where they really
>>> matter: sentient creatures and especially humans.
>> Oh but everything is just an object.
>> 
>> See Object Oriented Ontology ad nauseam.
>> 
>> - Rob.
>> 
>> ___
>> NetBehaviour mailing list
>> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
>> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> --->
> 
> A living - breathing - thriving networked neighbourhood -
> proud of free culture - claiming it with others ;)
> 
> Other reviews,articles,interviews
> http://www.furtherfield.org/reviews.php
> 
> Furtherfield – online arts community, platforms for creating, viewing,
> discussing and learning about experimental practices at the
> intersections of art, technology and social change.
> http://www.furtherfield.org
> 
> Furtherfield Gallery – Finsbury Park (London).
> http://www.furtherfield.org/gallery
> 
> Netbehaviour - Networked Artists List Community.
> http://www.netbehaviour.org
> 
> http://identi.ca/furtherfield
> http://twitter.com/furtherfield
> 
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
> 


Simon Biggs
si...@littlepig.org.uk http://www.littlepig.org.uk/ @SimonBiggsUK skype: 
simonbiggsuk

s.bi...@ed.ac.uk Edinburgh College of Art, University of Edinburgh
http://www.ed.ac.uk/schools-departments/edinburgh-college-art/school-of-art/staff/staff?person_id=182&cw_xml=profile.php
http://www.research.ed.ac.uk/portal/en/persons/simon-biggs%285dfcaf34-56b1-4452-9100-aaab96935e31%29.html

http://www.eca.ac.uk/circle/  http://www.elmcip.net/  
http://www.movingtargets.org.uk/  http://designinaction.com/
MSc by Research in Interdisciplinary Creative Practices
http://www.ed.ac.uk/studying/postgraduate/degrees?id=656&cw_xml=details.php

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread marc garrett 
are you calling me a thing or an object?

m
> On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 04:58:44 -0800 (PST), Michael Szpakowski wrote:
>> What bothers me about the attempt to attribute rights to non-sentient
>> things, however playfully and career advancing a move it might be,
>> is that it stands to devalue the notion of rights where they really
>> matter: sentient creatures and especially humans.
> Oh but everything is just an object.
>
> See Object Oriented Ontology ad nauseam.
>
> - Rob.
>
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread Rob Myers 
On Tue, 12 Feb 2013 04:58:44 -0800 (PST), Michael Szpakowski wrote:
> What bothers me about the attempt to attribute rights to non-sentient
> things, however playfully and career advancing a move it might be,
> is that it stands to devalue the notion of rights where they really
> matter: sentient creatures and especially humans.

Oh but everything is just an object.

See Object Oriented Ontology ad nauseam.

- Rob.

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Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread Michael Szpakowski 
What bothers me about the attempt to attribute rights to non-sentient things, 
however playfully and career advancing a move it might be,
is that it stands to devalue the notion of rights where they really matter: 
sentient creatures and especially humans.
michael






 From: netbehaviour 
To: netbehaviour@netbehaviour.org 
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 9:55 AM
Subject: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines
 
Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines
Cultural Studies Colloquium Series with David J. Gunkel

Columbia College Chicago
Thursday, February 14 at 4:00pm to 6:00pm
Collins Hall, Room 602 624 S. Michigan, Chicago, Illinois
http://events.colum.edu/calendar/day/2013/2/14

Abstract: Whether we recognize it or not, we are in the midst of a robot 
invasion. Machines are now everywhere and doing everything. They 
manufacture our automobiles and other consumer products. They make 
decisions concerning finances and manage our retirement savings. They 
play match maker, connecting us to our one true love. And they 
effectively select the books we read, the music we hear, and the films 
we watch. As these artifacts increasingly come to occupy influential 
positions in contemporary culture, we will need to ask ourselves some 
rather difficult questions: At what point might a robot or algorithm be 
held responsible for the decisions it makes or the actions it deploys? 
When, in other words, would it make sense to say “It’s the computer’s 
fault?” Likewise, at what point might we have to seriously consider 
extending rights—civil, moral and legal standing—to these socially 
active devices? When, in other words, would it no longer be considered 
non-sense to suggest something like “equal rights for machines?” 
Although these questions are a staple in science fiction, we have 
already passed the tipping point. This presentation will demonstrate why 
it not only makes sense to speak of the vindication of the rights of 
machines but also why avoiding this subject could be considered immoral.

David J. Gunkel is an award winning author and teacher specializing in 
information technology and ethics. He holds the position of Presidential 
Teaching Professor in the Department of Communication at Northern 
Illinois University and is the author of Hacking Cyberspace (Westview, 
2001); Thinking Otherwise: Philosophy, Communication, Technology (Purdue 
University Press, 2007); and The Machine Question: Critical Perspectives 
on AI, Robots and Ethics (MIT Press, 2012).


David J. Gunkel
Presidential Teaching Professor
Department of Communication
Northern Illinois University
http://www.gunkelweb.com/gunkel.html
dgun...@niu.edu
815-753-7004

The Machine Question (MIT 2012)
http://machinequestion.org

International Journal of Zizek Studies
http://zizekstudies.org
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Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread marc garrett 
Hi Aharon,

I think one the issues around this, relates to notions of 'ownership'.

For instance, if we name or term something, we then automatically claim 
it as our own.

Once you own something or own someone - you can then decide whether 'it' 
or 'they' has rights. You cannot offer rights unless you have the power 
to make this decision. In the 18th century (UK), everyday people were 
not allowed to own their own political contexts and they could not make 
their own decisions regarding their social needs. It was only those whom 
owned property at the time, deemed as 'right in thinking' on the subject 
of national and international politics in Parliament. Of course, this is 
when we move into the shady area of bio-power.

The other way, is that objects may own our everyday 'behaviours' to 
various degrees. However, in many ways we can trash them, rebuild them 
and use them for personal or shared ventures. Although, protocols claim 
to own our interaction with consumer objects but 'thankfully', many are 
disdainful towards restrictions which impede our creative and 
imaginative needs. Relationally, our connections to objects and networks 
and the systems running behind 'accessible' interfaces, may own not 
necessarily 'consciously' be in control. But, regulations are a 
human-social construct. And, mechanisation and distribution of these 
regulations are what try to own behaviours and dictate situations.

What we choose to own on our own terms, becomes part of the journey of 
discovering our own 'place and voice' in this complex world. At present, 
those who own a patent of a DNA strand or have financial investments 
regarding oil resources, will be the deciders. It rather reflects the 
needs of the powerful and not the needs of people or the plants, 
networks, algorithms or animals - although, as consumers we have rights 
to get a better product ;-)

Wishing you well.

marc



 >> Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines
 >> Cultural Studies Colloquium Series with David J. Gunkel
 >>
 >
 > Hiyas!
 >
 > This is a fascinating idea, and wish I could be there in Chicago on the
 > 14th - is it being skyped/googlehangouted/etc.? - however am also
 > wondering about the noises of entities that could be considered ready for
 > rights.
 >
 > For example, why do we imagine people, animals, plants, environments,
 > machines, etc. as arguably plausibly in a certain need for equal 
right? It
 > might seem like there is a question of the ability of these entities to
 > make noises, to "be heard", "be seen", "have a reaction". However, 
perhaps
 > a rather more radical practice would be to say that all atoms have equal
 > rights? So could algorithms, or genes, or epigenetic elements and
 > phenomena, dna strands, etc. If indeed such elements and entities get to
 > be equal, then perhaps, for example, owning an algorithm could be 
taken as
 > enslaving? More than that, by changing the noise of stuff that equality
 > makes a maker made modified moded modelled and modulated by, then perhaps
 > we get into a different kind of noises to question and aesthetic
 > trajectories to imagine? (probably not, but might be fun to attempt..?)
 >
 > Have much fun!
 >
 > Aharon
 > xx
 >
 >
 >> Columbia College Chicago
 >> Thursday, February 14 at 4:00pm to 6:00pm
 >> Collins Hall, Room 602 624 S. Michigan, Chicago, Illinois
 >> http://events.colum.edu/calendar/day/2013/2/14
 >>
 >> Abstract: Whether we recognize it or not, we are in the midst of a robot
 >> invasion. Machines are now everywhere and doing everything. They
 >> manufacture our automobiles and other consumer products. They make
 >> decisions concerning finances and manage our retirement savings. They
 >> play match maker, connecting us to our one true love. And they
 >> effectively select the books we read, the music we hear, and the films
 >> we watch. As these artifacts increasingly come to occupy influential
 >> positions in contemporary culture, we will need to ask ourselves some
 >> rather difficult questions: At what point might a robot or algorithm be
 >> held responsible for the decisions it makes or the actions it deploys?
 >> When, in other words, would it make sense to say “It’s the computer’s
 >> fault?” Likewise, at what point might we have to seriously consider
 >> extending rights—civil, moral and legal standing—to these socially
 >> active devices? When, in other words, would it no longer be considered
 >> non-sense to suggest something like “equal rights for machines?”
 >> Although these questions are a staple in science fiction, we have
 >> already passed the tipping point. This presentation will demonstrate why
 >> it not only makes sense to speak of the vindication of the rights of
 >> machines but also why avoiding this subject could be considered immoral.
 >>
 >> David J. Gunkel is an award winning author and teacher specializing in
 >> information technology and ethics. He holds the position of Presidential
 >> Teaching Professor in the

Re: [NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread aharon 
> Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines
> Cultural Studies Colloquium Series with David J. Gunkel
>

Hiyas!

This is a fascinating idea, and wish I could be there in Chicago on the
14th - is it being skyped/googlehangouted/etc.? - however am also
wondering about the noises of entities that could be considered ready for
rights.

For example, why do we imagine people, animals, plants, environments,
machines, etc. as arguably plausibly in a certain need for equal right? It
might seem like there is a question of the ability of these entities to
make noises, to "be heard", "be seen", "have a reaction". However, perhaps
a rather more radical practice would be to say that all atoms have equal
rights? So could algorithms, or genes, or epigenetic elements and
phenomena, dna strands, etc. If indeed such elements and entities get to
be equal, then perhaps, for example, owning an algorithm could be taken as
enslaving? More than that, by changing the noise of stuff that equality
makes a maker made modified moded modelled and modulated by, then perhaps
we get into a different kind of noises to question and aesthetic
trajectories to imagine? (probably not, but might be fun to attempt..?)

Have much fun!

Aharon
xx


> Columbia College Chicago
> Thursday, February 14 at 4:00pm to 6:00pm
> Collins Hall, Room 602 624 S. Michigan, Chicago, Illinois
> http://events.colum.edu/calendar/day/2013/2/14
>
> Abstract: Whether we recognize it or not, we are in the midst of a robot
> invasion. Machines are now everywhere and doing everything. They
> manufacture our automobiles and other consumer products. They make
> decisions concerning finances and manage our retirement savings. They
> play match maker, connecting us to our one true love. And they
> effectively select the books we read, the music we hear, and the films
> we watch. As these artifacts increasingly come to occupy influential
> positions in contemporary culture, we will need to ask ourselves some
> rather difficult questions: At what point might a robot or algorithm be
> held responsible for the decisions it makes or the actions it deploys?
> When, in other words, would it make sense to say “It’s the computer’s
> fault?” Likewise, at what point might we have to seriously consider
> extending rights—civil, moral and legal standing—to these socially
> active devices? When, in other words, would it no longer be considered
> non-sense to suggest something like “equal rights for machines?”
> Although these questions are a staple in science fiction, we have
> already passed the tipping point. This presentation will demonstrate why
> it not only makes sense to speak of the vindication of the rights of
> machines but also why avoiding this subject could be considered immoral.
>
> David J. Gunkel is an award winning author and teacher specializing in
> information technology and ethics. He holds the position of Presidential
> Teaching Professor in the Department of Communication at Northern
> Illinois University and is the author of Hacking Cyberspace (Westview,
> 2001); Thinking Otherwise: Philosophy, Communication, Technology (Purdue
> University Press, 2007); and The Machine Question: Critical Perspectives
> on AI, Robots and Ethics (MIT Press, 2012).
>
>
> David J. Gunkel
> Presidential Teaching Professor
> Department of Communication
> Northern Illinois University
> http://www.gunkelweb.com/gunkel.html
> dgun...@niu.edu
> 815-753-7004
> 
> The Machine Question (MIT 2012)
> http://machinequestion.org
>
> International Journal of Zizek Studies
> http://zizekstudies.org
> ___
> NetBehaviour mailing list
> NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org
> http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
>


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[NetBehaviour] Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines

2013-02-12 Thread netbehaviour 
Citizen Robot: A Vindication of the Rights of Machines
Cultural Studies Colloquium Series with David J. Gunkel

Columbia College Chicago
Thursday, February 14 at 4:00pm to 6:00pm
Collins Hall, Room 602 624 S. Michigan, Chicago, Illinois
http://events.colum.edu/calendar/day/2013/2/14

Abstract: Whether we recognize it or not, we are in the midst of a robot 
invasion. Machines are now everywhere and doing everything. They 
manufacture our automobiles and other consumer products. They make 
decisions concerning finances and manage our retirement savings. They 
play match maker, connecting us to our one true love. And they 
effectively select the books we read, the music we hear, and the films 
we watch. As these artifacts increasingly come to occupy influential 
positions in contemporary culture, we will need to ask ourselves some 
rather difficult questions: At what point might a robot or algorithm be 
held responsible for the decisions it makes or the actions it deploys? 
When, in other words, would it make sense to say “It’s the computer’s 
fault?” Likewise, at what point might we have to seriously consider 
extending rights—civil, moral and legal standing—to these socially 
active devices? When, in other words, would it no longer be considered 
non-sense to suggest something like “equal rights for machines?” 
Although these questions are a staple in science fiction, we have 
already passed the tipping point. This presentation will demonstrate why 
it not only makes sense to speak of the vindication of the rights of 
machines but also why avoiding this subject could be considered immoral.

David J. Gunkel is an award winning author and teacher specializing in 
information technology and ethics. He holds the position of Presidential 
Teaching Professor in the Department of Communication at Northern 
Illinois University and is the author of Hacking Cyberspace (Westview, 
2001); Thinking Otherwise: Philosophy, Communication, Technology (Purdue 
University Press, 2007); and The Machine Question: Critical Perspectives 
on AI, Robots and Ethics (MIT Press, 2012).


David J. Gunkel
Presidential Teaching Professor
Department of Communication
Northern Illinois University
http://www.gunkelweb.com/gunkel.html
dgun...@niu.edu
815-753-7004

The Machine Question (MIT 2012)
http://machinequestion.org

International Journal of Zizek Studies
http://zizekstudies.org
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