Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On Tue, Jan 03, 2017 at 10:19:29PM +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 4:24:36 PM CET Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 02, 2016 at 08:06:46PM +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > > > The icn, act2000 and pcbit drivers are all for very old hardware, > > > and it is highly unlikely that anyone is actually still using them > > > on modern kernels, if at all. > > > > > > All three drivers apparently are for hardware that predates PCI > > > being the common connector, as they are ISA-only and active > > > PCI ISDN cards were widely available in the 1990s. > > > > > > Looking through the git logs, it I cannot find any indication of a > > > patch to any of these drivers that has been tested on real hardware, > > > only cleanups or global API changes. > > > > > > Signed-off-by: Arnd Bergmann > > > Acked-by: Karsten Keil > > > > This patch got added in the 4.6 kernel release. As I am now taking > > patches for 4.11-rc1, I figure it is time to just delete the > > drivers/staging/i4l/ directory now, given that no one has really done > > anything with it. If people show up that wish to maintain it, I'll be > > glad to revert it, or if someone really screams in the next week. > > Otherwise it's time to just move on > > Sounds good to me. Ok, now deleted! thanks, greg k-h
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 11:57:36 PM CET Paul Bolle wrote: > On Tue, 2017-01-03 at 23:25 +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > > As far as I'm concerned, we are totally fine as long as there exists a > > longterm supported kernel that has i4l in drivers/staging. > > Or in drivers/isdn, right? Right, I was assuming that we would first move it to staging and then delete it, both at future points in time that we can debate. With the existing longterm kernels that have i4l in drivers/isdn, the few remaining users still have access to a supported kernel release until at least 2020. Arnd
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On Tue, 2017-01-03 at 23:25 +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > As far as I'm concerned, we are totally fine as long as there exists a > longterm supported kernel that has i4l in drivers/staging. Or in drivers/isdn, right? Paul Bolle
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 10:54:19 PM CET Paul Bolle wrote: > On Tue, 2017-01-03 at 22:19 +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > > isdn: move isdnhdlc out of i4l > > isdn: i4l: move hisax driver to staging > > isdn: move i4l to staging > > > > I can post those as well, at least I think the first two are helpful > > for untangling i4l from the rest of ISDN. I also still think that > > moving hisax and i4l to staging is reasonable given the state of > > that code, even if there are a couple of users today. > > There are? And even if there are: is there any reason to expect that moving > the rest of i4l to staging will result in anything other than a stream of > checkpatch cleanups? To clarify: Karsten's concern was about the loss of features that are present in i4l but not in mISDN. There were active users of those features last year, so I assumed that there are still a few this year. However, whether any of those users would ever need to move to a 4.11 kernel or newer is an entirely different question. As far as I'm concerned, we are totally fine as long as there exists a longterm supported kernel that has i4l in drivers/staging. If we move i4l to staging for v4.11 with the intention of removing it after the 2018 longterm release (i.e. after Deutsche Telekom turns off their ISDN network), that gives us at least until 2020. I assume there will be at least one older kernel with a longer end-of-support date. > How often did a bunch of drivers re-enter the tree after being sent to > staging? Greg can probably answer that. I'm sure it's either never or very rare. The only case of removed code coming back later is arch/h8300, which was removed in 2013 and replaced with a much nicer implementation in 2015. Arnd
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On Tue, 2017-01-03 at 22:19 +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > Sounds good to me. My original series contained four more patches that > I did not post again after there was some concern[1] that we did not > come to a conclusion on: > > isdn: gigaset: remove i4l code Let me repeat that I'm fine with a patch that does that. > isdn: move isdnhdlc out of i4l > isdn: i4l: move hisax driver to staging > isdn: move i4l to staging > > I can post those as well, at least I think the first two are helpful > for untangling i4l from the rest of ISDN. I also still think that > moving hisax and i4l to staging is reasonable given the state of > that code, even if there are a couple of users today. There are? And even if there are: is there any reason to expect that moving the rest of i4l to staging will result in anything other than a stream of checkpatch cleanups? How often did a bunch of drivers re-enter the tree after being sent to staging? Paul Bolle
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On Tuesday, January 3, 2017 4:24:36 PM CET Greg Kroah-Hartman wrote: > On Wed, Mar 02, 2016 at 08:06:46PM +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > > The icn, act2000 and pcbit drivers are all for very old hardware, > > and it is highly unlikely that anyone is actually still using them > > on modern kernels, if at all. > > > > All three drivers apparently are for hardware that predates PCI > > being the common connector, as they are ISA-only and active > > PCI ISDN cards were widely available in the 1990s. > > > > Looking through the git logs, it I cannot find any indication of a > > patch to any of these drivers that has been tested on real hardware, > > only cleanups or global API changes. > > > > Signed-off-by: Arnd Bergmann > > Acked-by: Karsten Keil > > This patch got added in the 4.6 kernel release. As I am now taking > patches for 4.11-rc1, I figure it is time to just delete the > drivers/staging/i4l/ directory now, given that no one has really done > anything with it. If people show up that wish to maintain it, I'll be > glad to revert it, or if someone really screams in the next week. > Otherwise it's time to just move on Sounds good to me. My original series contained four more patches that I did not post again after there was some concern[1] that we did not come to a conclusion on: isdn: gigaset: remove i4l code isdn: move isdnhdlc out of i4l isdn: i4l: move hisax driver to staging isdn: move i4l to staging I can post those as well, at least I think the first two are helpful for untangling i4l from the rest of ISDN. I also still think that moving hisax and i4l to staging is reasonable given the state of that code, even if there are a couple of users today. Arnd [1] https://lkml.org/lkml/2016/3/4/762
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On Wed, Mar 02, 2016 at 08:06:46PM +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > The icn, act2000 and pcbit drivers are all for very old hardware, > and it is highly unlikely that anyone is actually still using them > on modern kernels, if at all. > > All three drivers apparently are for hardware that predates PCI > being the common connector, as they are ISA-only and active > PCI ISDN cards were widely available in the 1990s. > > Looking through the git logs, it I cannot find any indication of a > patch to any of these drivers that has been tested on real hardware, > only cleanups or global API changes. > > Signed-off-by: Arnd Bergmann > Acked-by: Karsten Keil This patch got added in the 4.6 kernel release. As I am now taking patches for 4.11-rc1, I figure it is time to just delete the drivers/staging/i4l/ directory now, given that no one has really done anything with it. If people show up that wish to maintain it, I'll be glad to revert it, or if someone really screams in the next week. Otherwise it's time to just move on :) thanks, greg k-h
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
Am 07.03.2016 um 07:57 schrieb Holger Schurig: > I know that in Germany a good amount of land-line telephone line are > still using ISDN. [...] > Especially company line are using ISDN still, and there are some Linux > programs that act on then, e.g. Asterisk and derived PBX software has > ISDN support which is actively used. AFAIK none of these uses I4L anymore. Asterisk dropped I4L support with version 2 if my memory is correct and nowadays uses CAPI, mISDN or its own DAHDI interface. -- Tilman Schmidt E-Mail: til...@imap.cc Bonn, Germany Nous, on a des fleurs et des bougies pour nous protéger. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
Am 10.03.2016 um 17:41 schrieb i...@linux-pingi.de: > Am 10.03.2016 um 13:58 schrieb Paul Bolle: >> On do, 2016-03-10 at 11:53 +0100, i...@linux-pingi.de wrote: >>> mISDN with CAPI support works just fine with pppd and pppdcapiplugin >>> and the CAPI works for all mISDN HW. >> >> In the mainline tree the mISDN and CAPI stacks are effectively separate. Correct. > Since 2012 mISDN has a cAPI20 interface, pure in userspace. To expand: The documented interface for CAPI 2.0 applications is the shared library libcapi20.so. Originally that library just interfaced to the kernel CAPI subsystem through /dev/capi20. Later it was extended to support different access paths to ISDN devices: - via /dev/capi20 and kernel CAPI as before - over the network and a remote CAPI server running rcapid - over the network to FRITZ!Box router via AVM's CAPI-over-TCP service - last but not least, via the mISDNcapid daemon and mISDN Of course this cuts off anything that doesn't pass through libcapi20.so, including applications that (against the standard) access /dev/capi20 directly but also the capidrv.ko i4l compatibility shim. -- Tilman Schmidt E-Mail: til...@imap.cc Bonn, Germany Nous, on a des fleurs et des bougies pour nous protéger. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
Am 10.03.2016 um 13:58 schrieb Paul Bolle: > Hi Karsten, > > On do, 2016-03-10 at 11:53 +0100, i...@linux-pingi.de wrote: >> mISDN with CAPI support works just fine with pppd and pppdcapiplugin >> and the CAPI works for all mISDN HW. > > In the mainline tree the mISDN and CAPI stacks are effectively separate. > Do you perhaps refer to a mISDN + Asterisk + chan-capi setup? (That's > the closest to mISDN with CAPI support that I could find. Did I miss > something?) http://listserv.isdn4linux.de/pipermail/isdn4linux/2012-January/005580.html Since 2012 mISDN has a cAPI20 interface, pure in userspace. Everything is in the capi20 subdirectory of mISDNuser. The capi20 support need to be enabled with ./configure. Has nothing to do with Asterisk, but for FAX it is useing the same DSP library, spandsp. Best Karsten Keil
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
Hi Karsten, On do, 2016-03-10 at 11:53 +0100, i...@linux-pingi.de wrote: > mISDN with CAPI support works just fine with pppd and pppdcapiplugin > and the CAPI works for all mISDN HW. In the mainline tree the mISDN and CAPI stacks are effectively separate. Do you perhaps refer to a mISDN + Asterisk + chan-capi setup? (That's the closest to mISDN with CAPI support that I could find. Did I miss something?) Thanks, Paul Bolle
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
Am 09.03.2016 um 23:10 schrieb Tilman Schmidt: > Am 07.03.2016 um 09:48 schrieb Paul Bolle: >> On za, 2016-03-05 at 14:08 +0100, Tilman Schmidt wrote: >>> As a consequence, owners of HiSAX type adapters are in fact stuck with >>> the old hisax driver if they want to continue using i4l userspace >>> tools. >> >> Do you know whether or not mISDN tools offer functionality comparable to >> i4l tools? > > AFAICS they don't. mISDN seems very much geared towards voice use, for > example with Asterisk. The entire topic of ISDN data connections appears > to be missing. I don't see how someone currently using i4l for Internet > dial-in (either client or server side) could migrate to mISDN. > Not true. mISDN with CAPI support works just fine with pppd and pppdcapiplugin and the CAPI works for all mISDN HW. Following I4L services are not supported: - RAW IP dialin/dialout - termnal connections via X75 (e.g. dialin via minicom on a remote machine). - isdndivert RAW IP was very popular in the nineties because of easy to setup and low protocol overhead, but very insecure, since only authorization was done by the phone numbers. This was not a such big issue in the nineties, since it was hard to get a public line with the allowance to send any numbers. Today this is no problem to get the allowance (if you can get a new ISDN line at all - which is more a problem today). Terminal connection where only used seldom, more as last resort or for debuging. isdndivert was used to manage call redirections, it could be easely replaced by an mISDN or CAPI application, but here were not so much requests for it. Since Telekom offers callredirection in their Web customer center here is no much need anyways. Karsten
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
Am 07.03.2016 um 09:48 schrieb Paul Bolle: > On za, 2016-03-05 at 14:08 +0100, Tilman Schmidt wrote: >> As a consequence, owners of HiSAX type adapters are in fact stuck with >> the old hisax driver if they want to continue using i4l userspace >> tools. > > Do you know whether or not mISDN tools offer functionality comparable to > i4l tools? AFAICS they don't. mISDN seems very much geared towards voice use, for example with Asterisk. The entire topic of ISDN data connections appears to be missing. I don't see how someone currently using i4l for Internet dial-in (either client or server side) could migrate to mISDN. -- Tilman Schmidt E-Mail: til...@imap.cc Bonn, Germany Nous, on a des fleurs et des bougies pour nous protéger. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On za, 2016-03-05 at 14:08 +0100, Tilman Schmidt wrote: > As a consequence, owners of HiSAX type adapters are in fact stuck with > the old hisax driver if they want to continue using i4l userspace > tools. Do you know whether or not mISDN tools offer functionality comparable to i4l tools? Paul Bolle
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On vr, 2016-03-04 at 17:32 +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > A third patch moves the capidrv source from drivers/isdn/capi/ > into the i4l directory. I see. Why exactly? Thanks, Paul Bolle
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
I know that in Germany a good amount of land-line telephone line are still using ISDN. Some telco company try to move people to IP only, but this is currently still a process. Especially company line are using ISDN still, and there are some Linux programs that act on then, e.g. Asterisk and derived PBX software has ISDN support which is actively used.
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
Am 04.03.2016 um 17:18 schrieb Paul Bolle: > [Added Tilman and Christoph.] > > On vr, 2016-03-04 at 16:24 +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote: >> I actually did more patches that I ended up not submitting: >> >> * move hisax to staging >> * remove i4l support from gigaset > > For the record: I have no reason to object a patch that does that. (I'm > not aware anyone complained when gigaset switched its default from i4l > to capi. By now all relevant distributions should use our capi driver.) No objection from me either. When the Gigaset driver is built for CAPI it can still be used from i4l applications via capidrv with no loss of functionality. That was a primary goal of the CAPI port. >> * move i4l core to staging That's a different story. Removing i4l support will actually remove a userspace visible feature. > On a local tree I have two (draft) patches that do some related > preliminary work: > - isdnhdlc: move into separate directory > - mISDN: NETJet: stop selecting ISDN_I4L > > These trivial patches untangle mISDN and i4l. That would be a good thing regardless of any decision on the future of the i4l userspace interface. > For my part I'm surprised that anyone is still using it. But apparently > the hardware that required commit 19cebbcb04c8 and 3460baa62068 (which > I'm unfamiliar with) is still operational. And since there never has > been, as far as I know, a global i4l to capi migration nor a global i4l > (and capi) to mISDN migration it might be that some people are stuck on > i4l drivers for their hardware. Perhaps that explains Cristoph's > commits. The trouble is that mISDN never cared about migration or backward compatibility. So while users of i4l applications have no problem with i4l drivers being ported to CAPI and dropping native i4l support, they do have a problem with drivers making that move to mISDN. That is the situation of the hisax driver today. mISDN started as a project to migrate hisax to CAPI but regrettably dropped that goal in favor of a newly invented API leaving old i4l based applications behind. As a consequence, owners of HiSAX type adapters are in fact stuck with the old hisax driver if they want to continue using i4l userspace tools. In my opinion, i4l, capidrv and hisax need to stay in the supported part for the time being as they are still actively used. Native i4l support can and should be dropped for hardware with CAPI drivers (ie. gigaset) but not for hardware with only mISDN drivers (ie. hisax). And finally, ISDN_CAPI_CAPIDRV should be enabled automatically if both ISDN_I4L and ISDN_CAPI are enabled, ie. something like: --- a/drivers/isdn/capi/Kconfig +++ b/drivers/isdn/capi/Kconfig @@ -27,8 +27,8 @@ config ISDN_CAPI_MIDDLEWARE your ISP, say Y here. config ISDN_CAPI_CAPIDRV - tristate "CAPI2.0 capidrv interface support" - depends on ISDN_I4L + tristate + default ISDN_I4L help This option provides the glue code to hook up CAPI driven cards to the legacy isdn4linux link layer. If you have a card which is Jm2c, Tilman -- Tilman Schmidt E-Mail: til...@imap.cc Bonn, Germany Nous, on a des fleurs et des bougies pour nous protéger. signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
Hi Arnd,
[auto build test WARNING on staging/staging-testing]
[also build test WARNING on v4.5-rc6 next-20160304]
[if your patch is applied to the wrong git tree, please drop us a note to help
improving the system]
url:
https://github.com/0day-ci/linux/commits/Arnd-Bergmann/isdn-icn-remove-a-warning/20160303-031435
config: m68k-allyesconfig (attached as .config)
reproduce:
wget
https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/wfg/lkp-tests.git/plain/sbin/make.cross
-O ~/bin/make.cross
chmod +x ~/bin/make.cross
# save the attached .config to linux build tree
make.cross ARCH=m68k
All warnings (new ones prefixed by >>):
In file included from arch/m68k/include/asm/io_mm.h:26:0,
from arch/m68k/include/asm/io.h:4,
from include/linux/io.h:25,
from drivers/staging/i4l/icn/icn.h:41,
from drivers/staging/i4l/icn/icn.c:12:
drivers/staging/i4l/icn/icn.c: In function 'icn_shiftout':
arch/m68k/include/asm/raw_io.h:43:32: warning: cast to pointer from integer
of different size [-Wint-to-pointer-cast]
#define out_8(addr,b) (void)((*(__force volatile u8 *) (addr)) = (b))
^
arch/m68k/include/asm/io_mm.h:396:72: note: in expansion of macro 'out_8'
#define outb(val, port) ((port) < 1024 ? isa_rom_outb((val), (port)) :
out_8((port), (val)))
^
>> drivers/staging/i4l/icn/icn.h:59:16: note: in expansion of macro 'outb'
#define OUTB_P outb
^
>> drivers/staging/i4l/icn/icn.c:89:3: note: in expansion of macro 'OUTB_P'
OUTB_P((u_char) ((val >> s) & 1) ? 0xff : 0, port);
^
vim +/outb +59 drivers/staging/i4l/icn/icn.h
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 35 #ifdef __KERNEL__
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 36 /* Kernel
includes */
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 37
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 38 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 39 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 40 #include
2584cf83 drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Dan Williams 2015-08-10 @41 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 42 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 43 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 44 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 45 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 46 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 47 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 48 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 49 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 50 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 51 #include
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 52
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 53 #endif
/* __KERNEL__ */
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 54
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 55 /* some useful
macros for debugging */
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 56 #ifdef
ICN_DEBUG_PORT
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 57 #define
OUTB_P(v, p) {printk(KERN_DEBUG "icn: outb_p(0x%02x,0x%03x)\n", v, p);
outb_p(v, p);}
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 58 #else
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 @59 #define OUTB_P
outb
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 60 #endif
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 61
^1da177e drivers/isdn/icn/icn.h Linus Torvalds 2005-04-16 62 /* Defaults for
Port-Address and shared-memory */
:: The code at line 59 was first introduced by commit
:: 1da177e4c3f41524e886b7f1b8a0c1fc7321cac2 Linux-2.6.12-rc2
:: TO: Linus Torvalds
:: CC: Linus Torvalds
---
0-DAY kernel test infrastructureOpen Source Technology Center
https://lists.01.org/pipermail/kbuild-all Intel Corporation
.config.gz
Description: Binary data
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On Friday 04 March 2016 19:18:49 i...@linux-pingi.de wrote:
> Am 04.03.2016 um 16:24 schrieb Arnd Bergmann:
> > On Thursday 03 March 2016 09:30:38 i...@linux-pingi.de wrote:
> >> Hi Arnd,
> >> I fully agree and ack.
> >> Thanks for the work.
> >>
> >
> > I actually did more patches that I ended up not submitting:
> >
> > * move hisax to staging
> > * remove i4l support from gigaset
> > * move i4l core to staging
> >
> > while I initially thought that i4l as a whole is not just unmaintained
> > but also more or less unused, patch 19cebbcb04c8 ("isdn: Partially
> > revert debug format string usage clean up") came in that indicated that
> > there are still users that even send patches for hisax, and that
> > made me doubt whether we could consider it obsolete enough.
> >
> > Any thoughts on this? If you like, I can send those too.
>
> I4L is still in use on some sides and here is no 100% replacement (net
> via RAW IP mode, terminal via X.75).
I see.
> This week I got some question from a big retail chain in Germany about
> migration. I never know that they are using this stuff (for initial
> setup of remote shops).
Just for more background, do you know how old the kernel is that they
(or other i4l users you know of) are currently using?
> So I would not drop i4l yet, maybe we should propose this for 2018.
> I4L is not so usefull for NT mode, which is very popular nowadays for
> gateways into the new full IP world. Some design ins with mISDN here,
> mostly in the embedded area.
Ok, with a planned 2018 removal date I think we can consider moving
it all to staging now, that would give at least everyone who still uses
modern kernels a warning ahead of time so they can either plan the
migration away from i4l (or away from ISDN in other cases), as well as
a chance for us to hear about any remaining active users and whether
they need a later removal date.
In the TODO file for the active ISDN drivers, I have listed 2017
after the longterm kernel as the date for the projected removal.
If we decide to move the rest of I4L to staging with a date of
2018 (after the longterm release), that gives users at least until
2020 before they stop seeing upstream bug fixes for a kernel with
an included i4l, and many are probably stuck with running unsupported
older kernels anyway.
For reference, the currently largest provider of ISDN phone lines
is Deutsche Telekom, and they plan to disconnect their last user
in 2018, while Vodafone Germany said they will continue their service
until 2022, but my interpretation of their website fine print is that
this is only true for expensive S2M connections that few people use.
Arnd
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
Am 04.03.2016 um 16:24 schrieb Arnd Bergmann:
> On Thursday 03 March 2016 09:30:38 i...@linux-pingi.de wrote:
>> Hi Arnd,
>> I fully agree and ack.
>> Thanks for the work.
>>
>
> I actually did more patches that I ended up not submitting:
>
> * move hisax to staging
> * remove i4l support from gigaset
> * move i4l core to staging
>
> while I initially thought that i4l as a whole is not just unmaintained
> but also more or less unused, patch 19cebbcb04c8 ("isdn: Partially
> revert debug format string usage clean up") came in that indicated that
> there are still users that even send patches for hisax, and that
> made me doubt whether we could consider it obsolete enough.
>
> Any thoughts on this? If you like, I can send those too.
I4L is still in use on some sides and here is no 100% replacement (net
via RAW IP mode, terminal via X.75).
This week I got some question from a big retail chain in Germany about
migration. I never know that they are using this stuff (for initial
setup of remote shops).
So I would not drop i4l yet, maybe we should propose this for 2018.
I4L is not so usefull for NT mode, which is very popular nowadays for
gateways into the new full IP world. Some design ins with mISDN here,
mostly in the embedded area.
>
> My main motivation was to not have to fix up the ippp implementation
> when I move the compat ioctl handler from fs/compat_ioctl.c
> into drivers/net/ppp/ppp_generic.c, but I guess I can do that
> anyway as it seems that i4l never worked properly in compat mode.
>
> Arnd
>
>
>
>
>
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On Friday 04 March 2016 17:18:23 Paul Bolle wrote: > [Added Tilman and Christoph.] > > On vr, 2016-03-04 at 16:24 +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote: > > I actually did more patches that I ended up not submitting: > > > > * move hisax to staging > > * remove i4l support from gigaset > > For the record: I have no reason to object a patch that does that. (I'm > not aware anyone complained when gigaset switched its default from i4l > to capi. By now all relevant distributions should use our capi driver.) Ok. > > * move i4l core to staging > > On a local tree I have two (draft) patches that do some related > preliminary work: > - isdnhdlc: move into separate directory > - mISDN: NETJet: stop selecting ISDN_I4L > > These trivial patches untangle mISDN and i4l. Perhaps you did something > similar in your "move i4l core to staging". Yes, I have the same thing. I didn't mention it here as it should be completely non-controversial. A third patch moves the capidrv source from drivers/isdn/capi/ into the i4l directory. > > Any thoughts on this? If you like, I can send those too. > > For my part I'm surprised that anyone is still using it. But apparently > the hardware that required commit 19cebbcb04c8 and 3460baa62068 (which > I'm unfamiliar with) is still operational. And since there never has > been, as far as I know, a global i4l to capi migration nor a global i4l > (and capi) to mISDN migration it might be that some people are stuck on > i4l drivers for their hardware. Perhaps that explains Cristoph's > commits. My understanding is that it's not about the hardware, and that all devices that people actually use with hisax should also with with mISDN. Instead, the only argument I've heard about keeping i4l and hisax around (indefinitely) is that existing user space tools are written for i4l and not ported to mISDN. They work fine with CAPI drivers using capidrv.ko, but there is no i4l emulation on top of mISDN. Arnd
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
[Added Tilman and Christoph.]
On vr, 2016-03-04 at 16:24 +0100, Arnd Bergmann wrote:
> I actually did more patches that I ended up not submitting:
>
> * move hisax to staging
> * remove i4l support from gigaset
For the record: I have no reason to object a patch that does that. (I'm
not aware anyone complained when gigaset switched its default from i4l
to capi. By now all relevant distributions should use our capi driver.)
> * move i4l core to staging
On a local tree I have two (draft) patches that do some related
preliminary work:
- isdnhdlc: move into separate directory
- mISDN: NETJet: stop selecting ISDN_I4L
These trivial patches untangle mISDN and i4l. Perhaps you did something
similar in your "move i4l core to staging".
> while I initially thought that i4l as a whole is not just unmaintained
> but also more or less unused, patch 19cebbcb04c8 ("isdn: Partially
> revert debug format string usage clean up") came in that indicated
> that
> there are still users that even send patches for hisax, and that
> made me doubt whether we could consider it obsolete enough.
See also commit 3460baa62068 ("PCI: Fix minimum allocation address
overwrite").
> Any thoughts on this? If you like, I can send those too.
For my part I'm surprised that anyone is still using it. But apparently
the hardware that required commit 19cebbcb04c8 and 3460baa62068 (which
I'm unfamiliar with) is still operational. And since there never has
been, as far as I know, a global i4l to capi migration nor a global i4l
(and capi) to mISDN migration it might be that some people are stuck on
i4l drivers for their hardware. Perhaps that explains Cristoph's
commits.
> My main motivation was to not have to fix up the ippp implementation
> when I move the compat ioctl handler from fs/compat_ioctl.c
> into drivers/net/ppp/ppp_generic.c, but I guess I can do that
> anyway as it seems that i4l never worked properly in compat mode.
Paul Bolle
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On Thursday 03 March 2016 09:30:38 i...@linux-pingi.de wrote:
> Hi Arnd,
> I fully agree and ack.
> Thanks for the work.
>
I actually did more patches that I ended up not submitting:
* move hisax to staging
* remove i4l support from gigaset
* move i4l core to staging
while I initially thought that i4l as a whole is not just unmaintained
but also more or less unused, patch 19cebbcb04c8 ("isdn: Partially
revert debug format string usage clean up") came in that indicated that
there are still users that even send patches for hisax, and that
made me doubt whether we could consider it obsolete enough.
Any thoughts on this? If you like, I can send those too.
My main motivation was to not have to fix up the ippp implementation
when I move the compat ioctl handler from fs/compat_ioctl.c
into drivers/net/ppp/ppp_generic.c, but I guess I can do that
anyway as it seems that i4l never worked properly in compat mode.
Arnd
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
On Thu, Mar 03, 2016 at 05:22:22PM -0500, David Miller wrote: > From: Arnd Bergmann > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 20:06:46 +0100 > > > The icn, act2000 and pcbit drivers are all for very old hardware, > > and it is highly unlikely that anyone is actually still using them > > on modern kernels, if at all. > > > > All three drivers apparently are for hardware that predates PCI > > being the common connector, as they are ISA-only and active > > PCI ISDN cards were widely available in the 1990s. > > > > Looking through the git logs, it I cannot find any indication of a > > patch to any of these drivers that has been tested on real hardware, > > only cleanups or global API changes. > > > > Signed-off-by: Arnd Bergmann > > Greg, can you please take these two patches? will do
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
From: Arnd Bergmann Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 20:06:46 +0100 > The icn, act2000 and pcbit drivers are all for very old hardware, > and it is highly unlikely that anyone is actually still using them > on modern kernels, if at all. > > All three drivers apparently are for hardware that predates PCI > being the common connector, as they are ISA-only and active > PCI ISDN cards were widely available in the 1990s. > > Looking through the git logs, it I cannot find any indication of a > patch to any of these drivers that has been tested on real hardware, > only cleanups or global API changes. > > Signed-off-by: Arnd Bergmann Greg, can you please take these two patches? Thanks!
Re: [PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
Hi Arnd,
I fully agree and ack.
Thanks for the work.
Am 02.03.2016 um 20:06 schrieb Arnd Bergmann:
> The icn, act2000 and pcbit drivers are all for very old hardware,
> and it is highly unlikely that anyone is actually still using them
> on modern kernels, if at all.
>
> All three drivers apparently are for hardware that predates PCI
> being the common connector, as they are ISA-only and active
> PCI ISDN cards were widely available in the 1990s.
>
> Looking through the git logs, it I cannot find any indication of a
> patch to any of these drivers that has been tested on real hardware,
> only cleanups or global API changes.
>
> Signed-off-by: Arnd Bergmann
> ---
> Documentation/isdn/00-INDEX | 8
> drivers/isdn/Makefile | 3 ---
> drivers/isdn/i4l/Kconfig| 10 --
> drivers/staging/Kconfig | 2 ++
> drivers/staging/Makefile| 1 +
> .../staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.act2000 | 0
> .../isdn => drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.icn | 0
> .../isdn => drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.pcbit | 0
> .../isdn => drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.sc| 0
> drivers/staging/i4l/Kconfig | 13
> +
> drivers/staging/i4l/Makefile| 5 +
> drivers/staging/i4l/TODO| 3 +++
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/Kconfig | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/Makefile | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/act2000.h | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/act2000_isa.c | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/act2000_isa.h | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/capi.c| 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/capi.h| 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/module.c | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/Kconfig | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/Makefile | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/icn.c | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/icn.h | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/Kconfig | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/Makefile| 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/callbacks.c | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/callbacks.h | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/capi.c | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/capi.h | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/drv.c | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/edss1.c | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/edss1.h | 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/layer2.c| 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/layer2.h| 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/module.c| 0
> drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/pcbit.h | 0
> 37 files changed, 24 insertions(+), 21 deletions(-)
> rename {Documentation/isdn =>
> drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.act2000 (100%)
> rename {Documentation/isdn => drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.icn
> (100%)
> rename {Documentation/isdn =>
> drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.pcbit (100%)
> rename {Documentation/isdn => drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.sc
> (100%)
> create mode 100644 drivers/staging/i4l/Kconfig
> create mode 100644 drivers/staging/i4l/Makefile
> create mode 100644 drivers/staging/i4l/TODO
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/Kconfig (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/Makefile (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/act2000.h (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/act2000_isa.c (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/act2000_isa.h (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/capi.c (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/capi.h (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/module.c (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/Kconfig (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/Makefile (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/icn.c (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/icn.h (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/Kconfig (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/Makefile (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/callbacks.c (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/callbacks.h (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/capi.c (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/capi.h (100%)
> rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/drv.c (100%)
> re
[PATCH 2/2] isdn: i4l: move active-isdn drivers to staging
The icn, act2000 and pcbit drivers are all for very old hardware,
and it is highly unlikely that anyone is actually still using them
on modern kernels, if at all.
All three drivers apparently are for hardware that predates PCI
being the common connector, as they are ISA-only and active
PCI ISDN cards were widely available in the 1990s.
Looking through the git logs, it I cannot find any indication of a
patch to any of these drivers that has been tested on real hardware,
only cleanups or global API changes.
Signed-off-by: Arnd Bergmann
---
Documentation/isdn/00-INDEX | 8
drivers/isdn/Makefile | 3 ---
drivers/isdn/i4l/Kconfig| 10 --
drivers/staging/Kconfig | 2 ++
drivers/staging/Makefile| 1 +
.../staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.act2000 | 0
.../isdn => drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.icn | 0
.../isdn => drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.pcbit | 0
.../isdn => drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.sc| 0
drivers/staging/i4l/Kconfig | 13 +
drivers/staging/i4l/Makefile| 5 +
drivers/staging/i4l/TODO| 3 +++
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/Kconfig | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/Makefile | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/act2000.h | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/act2000_isa.c | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/act2000_isa.h | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/capi.c| 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/capi.h| 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/module.c | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/Kconfig | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/Makefile | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/icn.c | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/icn.h | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/Kconfig | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/Makefile| 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/callbacks.c | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/callbacks.h | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/capi.c | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/capi.h | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/drv.c | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/edss1.c | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/edss1.h | 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/layer2.c| 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/layer2.h| 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/module.c| 0
drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/pcbit.h | 0
37 files changed, 24 insertions(+), 21 deletions(-)
rename {Documentation/isdn =>
drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.act2000 (100%)
rename {Documentation/isdn => drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.icn
(100%)
rename {Documentation/isdn => drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.pcbit
(100%)
rename {Documentation/isdn => drivers/staging/i4l/Documentation}/README.sc
(100%)
create mode 100644 drivers/staging/i4l/Kconfig
create mode 100644 drivers/staging/i4l/Makefile
create mode 100644 drivers/staging/i4l/TODO
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/Kconfig (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/Makefile (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/act2000.h (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/act2000_isa.c (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/act2000_isa.h (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/capi.c (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/capi.h (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/act2000/module.c (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/Kconfig (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/Makefile (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/icn.c (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/icn/icn.h (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/Kconfig (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/Makefile (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/callbacks.c (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/callbacks.h (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/capi.c (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/capi.h (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/drv.c (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/edss1.c (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/edss1.h (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/layer2.c (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/i4l}/pcbit/layer2.h (100%)
rename drivers/{isdn => staging/
