nettime Cross-dressing in the blogosphere...
Here's an excellent link to a blogged essay by a feminist attorney, pondering the phenomenon of virtual lawyers in drag: http://feministlawprofs.law.sc.edu/?p=942 It was written last month, so I think it's very useful for getting another sense of what it's like for women to inhabit worlds in which they feel displaced by men who pose as women... Kali # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
nettime NORTH KOREA NUCLEAR TEST complicity from Irwin Oostindie
In a message dated 10/9/06 1:44:43 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Condemn US and Canadian foreign policy for encouraging North Korea. North Koreaâs nuclear test did not surprise anyone who has actually been listening to the statements of the Democratic Peopleâs Republic of Korea (DPRK). In doing my photography work, I have traveled to both sides of the Korean DMZ, the line that keeps the Korean peninsula artificially divided. I have come to see an enormous gap in how Canadaâs media reports on North Korea, and the damage this causes to advancing peace and security in the region and in developing an intelligent Canadian foreign policy. Sadly, since January 2002, the war-hawks in the Bush administration have relied on the North to react from the very corner the west has stuck them in. Without the âaxis of evilâ bogey man popularized by the US media (and Canadaâ s alike) there would be less sales of US weapons systems in Asia, and little rationale for the Star Wars program. Does Canadaâs media report on DPRK reaction to joint US/South Korea war games and their routine âmock invasionâ of the North? Instead we get sensational and inaccurate reports of the 'Dear Leader' living a playboy life, his Hollywood fetish and crazed dictator tendencies. Can someone gently remind Canadians that we are still technically at war with Korea? North Korea is doing old fashioned gun-boat diplomacy because thatâs the only avenue left for them. If Canadians genuinely cared for the plight of the Korean people, we would promote peace and security of the Korean peninsula. It was 53 years ago 45,000 Canadian troops came back from the Korean War, and we still have not signed a peace treaty and brought security to the region. Ottawa and Washington are complicit in this nucleur proliferation. It is time Canada breaks with the US' embargo rhetoric and end this cold war deep freeze. Despite starting diplomatic relations with the DPRK in 2003, Canada continues to deny their request for an embassy in Ottawa. The US could have avoided all this by agreeing to North Koreaâs decades-long request for bilateral talks. The capitalist west should stop the double standard of supporting only select developing countries, while trying to overthrow ones with a different economic system. By advancing development loans the DPRK has requested to deal with its severe famines, we would engage them to join the global community as a sovereign nation. By following through on the 1994 US-DPRK agreement to normalize relations, the DPRK could finally redirect itâs precious resources from military defenses, to the real needs of the Korean people.  Perhaps the silver lining in the DPRK nucleur test is that more Americanâs will see the dismal failure of the Bush administrationâs pre-emptive strike policy, and possibly vote him out of office. Irwin Oostindie Vancouver A Canadian view on North Korea: My photo work titled âAxis to Grindâ was sponsored by Canadaâs Department of Foreign Affairs International Trade and toured Canada in 2004-05. AXIS TO GRIND photographs and digital works by artist Irwin Oostindie reveals how North Americaâs misrepresentation of North Korea stands as an obstacle to peace and reunification for the Korean peninsula Irwin Oostindieâs North Korea photos on CBC: http://archive.cbcradio3.com/issues/2004_01_09/index.cfm?Page=08 (required Flash) âBeyond the Rhetoricâ my North Korea work reviewed at: http://www.cankor.ca/issues/152.htm#six Interviewed by CNN journalist on her NKZone site (scroll down): http://nkzone.typepad.com/nkzone/2004/02/axis_to_grind_q.html Occasionally available online at http://www.axistogrind.com/ AXIS TO GRIND was featured on various radio, print and TV interviews, including a feature segment on CBCâs The Hour with George Stromboulopoulos. A most inspired 3 minute music video looking inside North Korea (download video from UK band Faithless): http://www.astateofmind.co.uk/upload/movies/faithless320.zip A Canadian perspective on North Korea: http://www.cankor.ca/  A North Korean view on nucleur testing: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/HJ06Dg01.html # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
Re: nettime Gender and You
I'm just catching up with this debate and it's already quite complicated. Because of that, I can't pretend to address it directly. I think that most of this is beyond sorting out, and I think at this point the discussion isn't about Sondheim's Gender and Me post or even about Alan Sondheim as someone put it, but about itself the discussion itself and the momentum of this set of exchanges. I find it odd how little of the debate addresses the work in question (Alan Sondheim's). Since so much of the discussion is about establishing or undermining credentials and positions - who can speak and as what - I'll do the same and say I've been reading Alan's work online for 14 or so years. Furthermore, I work with him on a number of projects and know him quite well. So that's me, like it or not. I feel obligated - since we speak of dialogue and obligation - to make a plea for separating these exchanges from blanket characterizations of Sondheim and/or his work. Even the initial post, Gender and Me, is a small and informal fragment discussing an set of writings and practices over decades. I'm not saying everyone needs to read the whole Internet Text, but, for example: I know, from following discussion around Sondheim's work, that Kali is familiar with it and writes from that familiarity, however else I parse her responses; I notice, for example, that Kali is careful in her posts to note that her critique is not necessarily commenting on all of Alan's work. By contrast, it's just incorrect to assert that Alan's problem is that he needs to go read up on feminism, as Danny Butt does in a recent post (below). I think, in fairness, Danny Butt's post writes from unfamiliarity with Alan's work - or at least that's is my impression. Alan's work *is* informed by a few decades of feminist philosophy and criticism (empirically the largest body of work on gender issues) and makes a contribution to that field and acknowledges that it exists. I argue that Alan's Internet Text (along with _Being Online_ and other publications out of that work) remains one of the the earliest and certainly the most sustained explorations of gender issues online (among other things). If there is a problem - and I am not the one to say there is - it is not in lack of attention to gender issues. I'd say, also, that his work is nothing if it's not about dialogue and difference. So, it makes sense (in terms of dialogue, conversation, difference) to debate the role of feminist theory in Alan Sondheim's writing - and that might be a start - but the answer is surely not to call people misinformed when they're not. OK, flame on. Sandy Baldwin Danny Butt [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/09/06 3:18 AM Let's try this another way. ... # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
nettime Human Theory Anyone?
What about Human Theory? At one moment I want to just say, lets get over it, were all just human. But I know that when push comes to shove, especially in the digital world I work and live in, sexism does exist. I encounter it almost daily, people questioning my skills in the computer world simply because of my gender. I work with 90% males and most of my friends are male. I live in a digital world 24/7...constantly interacting with mostly male counterparts though some kind of digital technology. I have definitely been discriminated against and had my confidence battered by many males in the past. Maybe its about fear, and power and all this societal shit we've been taught since the womb. But its not about that, its about respect for another human. I don't want to be a feminist any more because Its dividing people, its making differences apparent. Its separating people, and its dividing us in about halfthis is just silly. So what about humans generally having power over themselves, and being [responsible] for their own actions. Then people would not feel threatened, and therefore would not feel the need to seek power. Lets strip it down, we all eat, sleep and shit...everything else is relevant. What we really need to be worrying about is technology and how to get the fuck off this planet...! And if we all aren't working together then its never going to happen...!! The most important thing to me is to get people educated in STEM-A (Science, Technology, Engineering and Mathematics - through ART) you can check my site for some of my old work on feminist theory http://janedapain.net but now I'm moving forwardso don't hold your breath...! IN Response to Do I have the power to write my own history? Our history is starting with our first records, though our first data trail, and damn right I want to be able to write some of my own history so its not just what paperwork is on me. I think that is what leads me into creating projects that narrate my past, or keeping blogs. All of these things are writing our own history, and why shouldn't we? Its like keeping a diary, its collecting and displaying a perspective, showing a glimpse of our reality to others, in hopes they may understand for a fleeting moment...I think times are changing and I think its important to just do it...because if you stand around and think about it then it never happens, but if you make it a habit then I becomes you as you create it. # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
Re: nettime Cross-dressing in the blogosphere...
It was written last month, so I think it's very useful for getting another sense of what it's like for women to inhabit worlds in which they feel displaced by men who pose as women... ok except it's more or less a posture as old as art itself in so many culture, academia rules on it (no need to cite, lists are wizout ending). yes for mucho reason blah, but permit i add we know also since balzac all 'belles lettres' are written mainly by autosugested men for women (xix century sound of so many cries of that, editor sommation to their wirters for their best customers ) we could rewritte the beloved baudelaire's lecteur mon semblable mon frère by 'reader, my syster, am as bitch.as you.'..er scuz me I couldnt refrain this one..so in some way it's beaucoup question of taste here around. the 'good' the bad old style one. it dont sound sarcastic in my month. in xviii the 'women' were train considered as some sort of depositary of lumière values due to barbaric men tropism ok ok with so many condescention etc..what i mean it's your killing in sisterhood right remind me the kick my syster gave me under the table when I don't do so 'good' humor at table when she slashed me with hers. What I mean it's I could easily understand your reaction with my cromagnon background -no need plus- really I cant understand hombre alan's twist smoke funk as a slice of bacon in a burning pan, theatratical image for theatratical reaction without.. for coining your 'Good intention non suffice' for resuming your objection to his denegation echoes right in my big hears as the fabulous anathemous 'one doesn't do good literature with good sentiments'. In few words you just ask him to be more tough cruel unjust with some well drew twisted love affair that make crack boum ouch. cause the women, best tasted ones, don't like literature that taste as cat food. right? # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
Re: nettime WayneFUD
There is a nettime history of Alan Sondheim and Kali Tal outside of this particular discussion; there is an Internet outside of nettime where those names have a history, and a world outside you are an obscurantizlt, worst you trust to some realised fiction around, who believe you ? in continuing your extralucide view why not to say natacha+ has a so huge baggage that couldnt fit in a ferrari but just in a smoky mactruck. remain serious # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
nettime RE: nettime-l-digest V1 #1805
Wouldn't this issue of feminism be subsumed under a broader heading of human rights?The question probably exposes my ignorance. But if each group takes an ethno centric viewpoint without 'concern for the other' it seems that nonproductive conflict occurs automatically. As groups act to achieve more secure positions in a jungle the oligarchy is happy to see the groups fighting to the last person. --- On Thu 10/12, nettime-l-digest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: nettime-l-digest [mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2006 22:19:16 -0400 Subject: nettime-l-digest V1 #1805 ... # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
Re: nettime Gender and You
Feminism is not the same as women, maybe not about most of them either. It addresses a fairly small set of some women's interests, and some of those women extrapolate their interests to women in general. And a small number of men use this as a means to presume to know what women are and, to be sure, want, that is, they want to be a certain kind of men pretending to be women of a certain kind, most often brainy show-offs. Similarly malism, or masculism, is not the same as men, and definitely is not about most men, but addresses the interests of a few men who extrapolate their interests to men in general. A small number of women use this as a means to presume to know what men are and, to be sure, want, that is they want to be kind of women pretending to be men of a certain kind, most often brainy show-offs. An even smaller number of women and men toy with becoming faux men and women, pretending like mad, utilizing narrow interests and perceptions abstracted from real women and real men in general which cannot be known in their generality but only by selective abstract positings based on limited direct acquaintance -- customarily only familiarity with a few hundred actual experiences and maybe ten to a hundred times that amount by way of study of the gender topic (once lumped as the humanities, oh the humanities). Queerism attempts to surpass all too easy feminism and masculism -- which incorrectly identify feminism with women and masculism with men. The vagina and the phallus are conjoined in the anus ashitting during penetration, abirthing congealed philosophy, or art, aboriginal, pre-verbal, farting precursing argument and song. Yes, there is a cartesian incertainty, gratitude at being alive, upon delivering a pile or puddle of feces, contributing to the earth's refertilization, sui generizing triumphantly, autoerotic coitus if comical to see in toilet mounted video. # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
nettime The Sondheim brou-ha-ha: one perspective
Okay, I'll chime in too. So maybe I'm a bit younger (34) and not exposed to/informed on nearly enough feminist theory. But here's my perspective. For my entire professional career most of my bosses and clients have been women. My business partner (my wife) is a woman. When I was in college, most of my classmates were women. Now that I teach, most of my best students are women. I went to a conference yesterday, and the most compelling and interesting conversation I had was with a woman. Of our circle of friends, many (if not most) of the most driven and successful individuals are women. So when I read stuff (paraphrased) like this is so oppressing and online environments aren't comfortable and this experience made this female lawyer cry (linked material) and so on, it just sounds...Victorian to me. Not that these experiences aren't true, but that the perspective inadvertently reinforces old and out of date stereotypes. Like women are porcelain dolls that need to be protected. Like hysteria is still a valid medical diagnosis. Like that female-only fragile personality syndrome still belongs in the DSM. Like bras have yet to be burned. I certainly wouldn't argue that women don't still have a hard time of it; but then again, it's not a warm-and-fuzzy world, not many folks at all (regardless of gender) are going to have a completely conflict/obstacle-free life handed to them, nor maybe should anyone ever have it that easy in the first place. I've known a fair number of people (male and female) who have had an easy time of it, and from my perspective they tend to be a bit dull, or maybe underachievers, without the fire that comes from toughing it out through difficult formative experiences. And I'm not trying to project onto feminist theory, I'm completely unqualified to do so, or that my experience applies to other cultures, situations, or socioeconomic strata. I'm just saying that the arguments haven't struck me as relevant to my personal experience, where women are admirably strong and successful, and arguments that emphasize the fragility of women in a bad, bad environment just sounds to my ears like a throwback to corsets and tales of frequent fainting at the first signs of difficulty in life. Flame on, all. Eric # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
nettime (a|uh) digest [x3: butt, whitener, leon]
Danny Butt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Re: nettime Gender and You brian whitener [EMAIL PROTECTED] wait, was that about sondheim? leon [EMAIL PROTECTED] RE: nettime Gender and You - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: Danny Butt [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: nettime Gender and You Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 11:39:40 +1300 Charles, I think most of what is useful for me to say about the issues is already on the table, but I should just clarify that having hovered around nettime for about a decade, I've seen a lot of Alan's work, and enjoyed some of it, and have at least some understanding of his project. To reconfigure my earlier point, it's not that Alan hasn't *read* any feminism, so much as I find it bizarre that he can write something purporting to be a research finding about gender that makes no reference to contemporary feminist work in that area. To me it's difficult to make a contribution to a field if you don't acknowledge the work people are doing in it. You're asserting that Alan's made that contribution, but I would believe that more if I heard it from people who have expertise in feminist philosophy and criticism (I don't put myself in that category, so I'm open to being set right). Danny On 14/10/2006, at 4:50 AM, Charles Baldwin wrote: By contrast, it's just incorrect to assert that Alan's problem is that he needs to go read up on feminism, as Danny Butt does in a recent post (below). I think, in fairness, Danny Butt's post writes from unfamiliarity with Alan's work - or at least that's is my impression. Alan's work *is* informed by a few decades of feminist philosophy and criticism (empirically the largest body of work on gender issues) and makes a contribution to that field and acknowledges that it exists. ... - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: brian whitener [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: wait, was that about sondheim? Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 20:17:50 -0500 i think the initial discussion having passed, what's really struck me is how the affair is now being framed in retrospect. that is, the affair is now referred to a brou-ha-ha -- instead of an actual discussion -- a term which casts the series of exchanges as something less-than-serious. and this after kali went to great lengths to open a debate and discussion where there was room for exchange (which is something very difficult to do in online environments, in my experience). to me to refer to the exchange like this seems very condescending. as well, people are signing their comments (which they oddly enough did not refrain from writing!) with the closing flame on. from what i have read of the discussion, despite objectionable, sloppy, and disinterested thinking (flame intended), the responses have been anything but flaming. either you want to continue the discussion or you don't. in the end, i think the heart of the discussion, or what was interesting about it, had little to do with sondheim and everything to do with the list and the degree to which conservative explanations of phenomenon have become our default (read: non-critical) explanations of reality. which is one of the things that feminism intended to combat in the first place. sincerely yours, brian whitener - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: leon [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: nettime Gender and You Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 02:48:47 +0100 I never imagined that sex was that confusing If alans ramblings started this thread I don't see why, they were either poor porn or red rags that should be ignored Sounds like a lot of agendas are being voiced for many reasons Funny how after so much time and effort by all involved in sexual exchange we still have little common ground. Fuck sex lets art www.c6.org/thedotmasters leon the lurker - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - # distributed via nettime: no commercial use without permission # nettime is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: [EMAIL PROTECTED] and info nettime-l in the msg body # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@bbs.thing.net
