Re: Lori Emerson: What's Wrong With the Internet and How
Am 28.07.2015 um 17:44 schrieb Florian Cramer : > The Internet *is* it's lowest protocol layers. > > No, it isn't, since it is neither immaterial nor a perpetuum mobile, > but runs on hardware and electricity. Touché, but in fact it is the network protocols that determine what the users can do with their hardware. Regards, Jürgen. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: Lori Emerson: What's Wrong With the Internet and How
On 28/Jul/15 02:56, Iain Boal wrote: So there was a purely political decision to build in the asymmetries. Can you corroborate, beyond the mere assertion? Who? When? Evidence welcome. IB Good question -- I don't think there is such a thing as 'purely political' decisions -- that would suggest that causation for techno-social change arises and is implemented without relation to actual resource constraints. (Nothing is purely political, eh?) I am no expert in this question, but in principle, when the task of engineering a solution is in progress, there is a finite number of assumptions, and variables that one is able to consider -- the solution is never perfect. It can approach perfection but that approach would generally behave asymptotically, based on the ever-increasing consumption of resources necessary to more and more accurately model the reality that the solution is embedded within and that is impressing itself on the solution. A systems approach -- which was, if nothing else, the widest approach of the social organization (the US military-industrial complex) that was spawning these solutions (networked communications) -- if not a more close structured approach for the particular development project (solution). No systems-based solutions are perfect. And it's easy to look back and conjecture about where precisely the imperfection arose -- from intent, from lack of time/funding/resources to further optimize solutions, from lack of understanding of ultimate use of the protocols, etc. And I'm not sure of the point in spending time in trying to suss out particular details aside from that process throwing light onto more general flaws in wider processes -- there are thousands of technological implementations that drive our lives in one way or another -- perhaps it's better to understand some principles as to the social dynamic of how those 'protocols' arise and control us than to reverse-engineer each particular protocol and determine its genesis. I would suggest that one piece of evidence that would support MorlockElloi's assertion would be to see where the developer(s) studied! (MIT?, likely). The Internet *is* it's lowest protocol layers. The ideology and politics are embedded in protocols, and attempts to 'solve' the problem without addressing these fundamental issues are doomed to fail. I would totally agree with this, and it's possible to drill 'deeper' into protocorollary layers of a technology below what is traditionally held as protocol -- into the protocols of systems theory, into the military itself (the 'protocols' of Sun Tzu!)... etc... JH -- ++ Dr. John Hopkins, BSc, MFA, PhD grounded on a granite batholith twitter: @neoscenes http://tech-no-mad.net/blog/ ++ # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: WhiteSave.me -- The App That Delivers [digect 2x: olma, pm]
Re: WhiteSave.me -- The App That Delivers Privilege seb olma pm - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: seb olma Subject: Re: WhiteSave.me -- The App That Delivers Privilege Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 05:57:20 +0200 Brilliant!!! Sent from my toaster <...> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - From: pm Subject: Re: WhiteSave.me -- The App That Delivers Privilege Date: Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:54:03 +0200 An echo to Dmytri's post about whitesave.me - and for french readers: Last issue of visual/cultural studies review 'Poli' is out and focuses on racial biases in technology. Poli #10, 'Techno-racismes': https://polirevue.wordpress.com/anciens-numeros/numero-10/ ___ pali meursault http://www.palimeursault.net p...@palimeursault.net Le 27 juil. 2015 ??? 19:03, Dmytri Kleiner a ???crit : WhiteSave.me The App That Delivers Privilege <...> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: Lori Emerson: What's Wrong With the Internet and How
On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 9:28 PM, <[1]morlockel...@yahoo.com> wrote: The Internet *is* it's lowest protocol layers. No, it isn't, since it is neither immaterial nor a perpetuum mobile, but runs on hardware and electricity. -F <...> # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
***SPAM*** Re: Lori Emerson: What's Wrong With the Internet and How
I was present when people with pointy ears entered IETF meetings and ordered this. Is this the answer you expect? Perhaps search engines can provide better answers. Worth trying: ex. http://www.quora.com/Why-is-ADSL-asymmetric Without getting in codecs and frequency allocations, consider that there are perfectly functioning symmetric variants of DSL (SDSL etc.) The underlying narrative is that "there is more download than upload", which then, combined with NATs, becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Before DSL, we had modems for analog audio lines, and they were fully symmetric. To dig out the chain of causality, one would need to track where this narrative originated in 90s, and how it found its way into the standards bodies, and why ISPs preferred ADSL to SDSL. All in 90s, it was too late after that. It may well be true that most people really have nothing to say and create, so asymmetry makes sense, as they just need to be fed. But neglecting social consequences and amplifying this situation with technology *is* a political decision. Most people don't vote - does it mean that the number of voting booths should be cut down? On 7/28/15, 2:56, Iain Boal wrote: So there was a purely political decision to build in the asymmetries. Can you corroborate, beyond the mere assertion? Who? When? Evidence welcome. IB # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: Lori Emerson: What's Wrong With the Internet and How
Hi all, I'm glad to see the interview is being circulated, especially as I still worry it's too technical for most readers. And certainly, the design of TCP/IP was very political - Andrew Russell talks about the historical details in his book Open Standards. I've been working on an article called "The Net Has Never Been Neutral" where I try to delve into the larger political implications of its design - happy to share this with anyone b/c. But, as Day points out in the interview, the fact that certain decisions were made about the layers explicitly so the design would not resemble what the French were doing with CYCLADES is one example of politics at play. I'd also say that there's politics involved even when there's no explicit or conscious political intent. yrs, Lori On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 3:56 AM, Iain Boal wrote: So there was a purely political decision to build in the asymmetries. Can you corroborate, beyond the mere assertion? Who? When? Evidence welcome. IB On Jul 27, 2015, at 8:28 PM, morlockel...@yahoo.com wrote: > The Internet *is* it's lowest protocol layers. The ideology and > politics are embedded in protocols, and attempts to 'solve' the problem > without addressing these fundamental issues are doomed to fail. > > Example: the asymmetry of DSL and cable bandwidths in the two > directions is built into the link layer, and it was purely political > decision, little to do with technology. <...> -- Lori Emerson Associate Professor | Director, Media Archaeology Lab Department of English and Intermedia Arts, Writing, and Performance University of Colorado at Boulder Hellems 101, 226 UCB, Boulder, CO 80309-0226 loriemerson.net | mediaarchaeologylab.com # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
Re: Lori Emerson: What's Wrong With the Internet and How
So there was a purely political decision to build in the asymmetries. Can you corroborate, beyond the mere assertion? Who? When? Evidence welcome. IB On Jul 27, 2015, at 8:28 PM, morlockel...@yahoo.com wrote: > The Internet *is* it's lowest protocol layers. The ideology and > politics are embedded in protocols, and attempts to 'solve' the problem > without addressing these fundamental issues are doomed to fail. > > Example: the asymmetry of DSL and cable bandwidths in the two > directions is built into the link layer, and it was purely political > decision, little to do with technology. > > On 7/27/15, 11:53, Florian Cramer wrote: > >>It seems as if a more apt title for this interview would be "What's >>Wrong With TCP/IP and How We Can Fix It", since the Internet is now >>much more than its lowest protocol layer. - That said, one should make >>all "net neutrality" activists take note of Day's excellent critique of >>this concept. # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org
