Re: Moving Nettime
Dear nettime emailers and posters! This is such a good description of email list experience! (See below) Michael has nailed it and it’s this kind of experience that is exactly why there will also be another generation of readers and writers who prefer email to platform! Let us think about them…not those who insist that doom-scrolling mode/hot take brain activity is the way of the future. Books still exist. **Some** students still read them, and for those in that slow-brainpower league, e-mail will be a virtue, not a lapse in deterministic consciousness. Michael wrote: … topics arrive in modular fashion and are debated in nettime and then kind of recede in the rearview mirror but are ever susceptible to revival via a new spin or turn that I fear might be sacrificed if an ostensibly more "frictionless" mode of discussion is found. Sometimes friction slows speed which in turn helps expedite more nuanced discussion. We're living in a world of "hot takes,"… Warmly Molly > On Dec 15, 2022, at 8:50 AM, Michael Benson wrote: > > > 'ello everyone, some thoughts on moving Nettime, for what they're worth. > > Email is indeed associated with a given timeframe of net evolution, but it > has also kind of established and entrenched itself as the legitimate > successor to the snail, for better or worse. It will always be there (ok, > always is a long time, but it definitely remains at the backbone or among the > chief arteries of whatever online means, even now; in any case, there's > little sign that it will be replaced), whereas jumping in the general > direction of Mastodon when Mastodon only ten minutes ago entered the > conversation runs real risks of marking a kind of end point or extinction of > the nettime idea. Such as it is. Mastodons are associated with going extinct, > after all, among other things. > > Why knows if Mastodon will in fact be the successor of Twitter? Jury's out. > > Also I agree with Andreas regarding apprehension that nettime could end up > accessible primarily via doom scrolling, that could indeed spell doom, or > anyway so I think, evidently in agreement with him. > > There is a manner by which topics arrive in modular fashion and are debated > in nettime and then kind of recede in the rearview mirror but are ever > susceptible to revival via a new spin or turn that I fear might be sacrificed > if an ostensibly more "frictionless" mode of discussion is found. Sometimes > friction slows speed which in turn helps expedite more nuanced discussion. > We're living in a world of "hot takes," self-evidently are the antithesis of > what nettime's been up to for decades. > > My (temperate, I hope) take. > > (FYI none of the above was written, passed through, massaged, or otherwise > associated with ChatGPT. But we may all end up in a zoo anyway.) > > Best from Ottawa! > > Michael > > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Moving Nettime
'ello everyone, some thoughts on moving Nettime, for what they're worth. Email is indeed associated with a given timeframe of net evolution, but it has also kind of established and entrenched itself as the legitimate successor to the snail, for better or worse. It will always be there (ok, always is a long time, but it definitely remains at the backbone or among the chief arteries of whatever online means, even now; in any case, there's little sign that it will be replaced), whereas jumping in the general direction of Mastodon when Mastodon only ten minutes ago entered the conversation runs real risks of marking a kind of end point or extinction of the nettime idea. Such as it is. Mastodons are associated with going extinct, after all, among other things. Why knows if Mastodon will in fact be the successor of Twitter? Jury's out. Also I agree with Andreas regarding apprehension that nettime could end up accessible primarily via doom scrolling, that could indeed spell doom, or anyway so I think, evidently in agreement with him. There is a manner by which topics arrive in modular fashion and are debated in nettime and then kind of recede in the rearview mirror but are ever susceptible to revival via a new spin or turn that I fear might be sacrificed if an ostensibly more "frictionless" mode of discussion is found. Sometimes friction slows speed which in turn helps expedite more nuanced discussion. We're living in a world of "hot takes," self-evidently are the antithesis of what nettime's been up to for decades. My (temperate, I hope) take. (FYI none of the above was written, passed through, massaged, or otherwise associated with ChatGPT. But we may all end up in a zoo anyway.) Best from Ottawa! Michael # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Moving Nettime to the Fediverse
Dear Andreas, I respectfully disagree with your characterisation of my remarks. For the avoidance of doubt, I believe that the list maintainers do wish to support the community, which is precisely why I believe that they will share the information needed to preserve continuity of the list with their successors. Best wishes -- Geoff On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 12:27:17PM +0100, Andreas Broeckmann wrote: > Folks, > > Maybe, more productively, and as Allan has suggested, people can write small > reports here about how (exactly) they are using the new Mastodon instance, > and what their experiences are. I'd find that useful, and maybe it's a good > time to learn and play together. > > Regards, > -a > > > PS: Geoff, excuse my bluntness, but I think that the tone of your posting is > completely inappropriate. Even for people who don't know the moderators > personally, it must be clear that their commitment to the list and the > project of Nettime is and has been substantial, and to put that in question > in the form that you do here is in itself, for me, a mark of > self-disqualification. > > Just two things: I suggest that you strike through the word "we" in your > posting and reconsider again who this acting subject might actually be; > there is certainly no "we" here that can "identify", "create", or "decide". > The composition of this 'connective' is much more feeble than you seem to > think. And you are suggesting to send away the people who have been holding > its foundations together, even though you admit to not knowing what that > involves, technically, mentally, socially, communication-wise. (Maybe apply > for an internship?) > > Secondly, it may look like it for you, but Nettime is not and probably never > will be an institution. It was much closer to that status 20 years ago. Its > rules of operation are therefore different. > > -a > > > Am 15.12.22 um 10:53 schrieb Geoffrey Goodell: > > Dear Allan and all, > > > > The wishful thinking on the part of the list maintainers was: > > > > (a) that they would be forgiven for growing weary of running the service; > > AND > > > > (b) that they would also continue to enjoy the self-gratification from > > volunteering to provide infrastructure support to the community. > > > > The inconvenient reality is that they cannot have both (a) and (b). > > > > So, I suggest that we identify new list maintainers; after all, we all knew > > that time for a successor would eventually come. If this is just a matter > > of > > configuring and running mailman3 on one of my mail servers, then I am happy > > to > > do it myself, although I suspect that there are others here who are more > > appropriate for the task. > > > > Suggest that we create a committee of volunteers to receive the knowledge of > > how to run the list (e.g.: the list of email addresses and their settings, > > the > > mailman configuration files, the historical archive, and so on) and decide > > who > > should do what. Whether or not this makes some people uncomfortable, > > Nettime > > has become a de facto institution and requires an institutional approach. > > > > Best wishes -- > > > > Geoff > > > On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 10:07:16AM +0100, Allan Siegel wrote: > > Dear All, > > > > I think Mastodon has certain things going for it but the experience is > very > > different from the Nettime LIST... > > > > The group who orchestrated the change in environments should have prepared > > users for the change and described a framework on how this change could > > work. To suddenly basically dissolve one community and imagine it will > just > > reappear someplace else involves some wishful thinking. > > > > best > > > > allan > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Moving Nettime to the Fediverse
Folks, Maybe, more productively, and as Allan has suggested, people can write small reports here about how (exactly) they are using the new Mastodon instance, and what their experiences are. I'd find that useful, and maybe it's a good time to learn and play together. Regards, -a PS: Geoff, excuse my bluntness, but I think that the tone of your posting is completely inappropriate. Even for people who don't know the moderators personally, it must be clear that their commitment to the list and the project of Nettime is and has been substantial, and to put that in question in the form that you do here is in itself, for me, a mark of self-disqualification. Just two things: I suggest that you strike through the word "we" in your posting and reconsider again who this acting subject might actually be; there is certainly no "we" here that can "identify", "create", or "decide". The composition of this 'connective' is much more feeble than you seem to think. And you are suggesting to send away the people who have been holding its foundations together, even though you admit to not knowing what that involves, technically, mentally, socially, communication-wise. (Maybe apply for an internship?) Secondly, it may look like it for you, but Nettime is not and probably never will be an institution. It was much closer to that status 20 years ago. Its rules of operation are therefore different. -a Am 15.12.22 um 10:53 schrieb Geoffrey Goodell: Dear Allan and all, The wishful thinking on the part of the list maintainers was: (a) that they would be forgiven for growing weary of running the service; AND (b) that they would also continue to enjoy the self-gratification from volunteering to provide infrastructure support to the community. The inconvenient reality is that they cannot have both (a) and (b). So, I suggest that we identify new list maintainers; after all, we all knew that time for a successor would eventually come. If this is just a matter of configuring and running mailman3 on one of my mail servers, then I am happy to do it myself, although I suspect that there are others here who are more appropriate for the task. Suggest that we create a committee of volunteers to receive the knowledge of how to run the list (e.g.: the list of email addresses and their settings, the mailman configuration files, the historical archive, and so on) and decide who should do what. Whether or not this makes some people uncomfortable, Nettime has become a de facto institution and requires an institutional approach. Best wishes -- Geoff On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 10:07:16AM +0100, Allan Siegel wrote: > Dear All, > > I think Mastodon has certain things going for it but the experience is very > different from the Nettime LIST... > > The group who orchestrated the change in environments should have prepared > users for the change and described a framework on how this change could > work. To suddenly basically dissolve one community and imagine it will just > reappear someplace else involves some wishful thinking. > > best > > allan > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Moving Nettime to the Fediverse
Dear Allan and all, The wishful thinking on the part of the list maintainers was: (a) that they would be forgiven for growing weary of running the service; AND (b) that they would also continue to enjoy the self-gratification from volunteering to provide infrastructure support to the community. The inconvenient reality is that they cannot have both (a) and (b). So, I suggest that we identify new list maintainers; after all, we all knew that time for a successor would eventually come. If this is just a matter of configuring and running mailman3 on one of my mail servers, then I am happy to do it myself, although I suspect that there are others here who are more appropriate for the task. Suggest that we create a committee of volunteers to receive the knowledge of how to run the list (e.g.: the list of email addresses and their settings, the mailman configuration files, the historical archive, and so on) and decide who should do what. Whether or not this makes some people uncomfortable, Nettime has become a de facto institution and requires an institutional approach. Best wishes -- Geoff On Thu, 15 Dec 2022 at 10:07:16AM +0100, Allan Siegel wrote: > Dear All, > > I think Mastodon has certain things going for it but the experience is very > different from the Nettime LIST... > > The group who orchestrated the change in environments should have prepared > users for the change and described a framework on how this change could > work. To suddenly basically dissolve one community and imagine it will just > reappear someplace else involves some wishful thinking. > > best > > allan > > > On 12/14/22 17:18, Miklos Peternak wrote: > > dear all, > > > > from someone who rarely post to the list, but follows it almost since > > the beginnig -?? as andreas was accurate, i only join him now: > > > > On 2022. 12. 06. 21:20, Andreas Broeckmann wrote: > > > , i know that for me personally the move of nettime away from e-mail > > > would mean that i would, after 25+ years, probably lose the > > > connection. like others here, e-mail is the medium i like for this > > > kind of communication, and i don't see myself scrolling through > > > > > (...) > > & > > > > > > i know that simplicity and longevity are not values in themselves, > > > > i do think, these are values - but agree, there are more values on earth, > > > > by than, to all, > > > > & my very bests, > > > > miklos > > > > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > > > #?? ?? is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > > > #?? collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > > > #?? more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > > > #?? archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > > > #?? @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: > > > # distributed via : no commercial use without permission > #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, > # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets > # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l > # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org > # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
Re: Moving Nettime to the Fediverse
Dear All, I think Mastodon has certain things going for it but the experience is very different from the Nettime LIST... The group who orchestrated the change in environments should have prepared users for the change and described a framework on how this change could work. To suddenly basically dissolve one community and imagine it will just reappear someplace else involves some wishful thinking. best allan On 12/14/22 17:18, Miklos Peternak wrote: dear all, from someone who rarely post to the list, but follows it almost since the beginnig - as andreas was accurate, i only join him now: On 2022. 12. 06. 21:20, Andreas Broeckmann wrote: , i know that for me personally the move of nettime away from e-mail would mean that i would, after 25+ years, probably lose the connection. like others here, e-mail is the medium i like for this kind of communication, and i don't see myself scrolling through (...) & i know that simplicity and longevity are not values in themselves, i do think, these are values - but agree, there are more values on earth, by than, to all, & my very bests, miklos # distributed via : no commercial use without permission # is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject: # distributed via : no commercial use without permission #is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org # @nettime_bot tweets mail w/ sender unless #ANON is in Subject:
