Re: different icons if internet is available
On Sat, 2007-05-19 at 09:29 +, yelo_3 wrote: I didn't understand the first probelm. And why are you talking about spyware? Because rightly or wrongly, it's going to be the immediate reaction of a lot of people if you put code into an application that causes it to periodically access arbitrary machines out on the internet. People get very paranoid over what information the program might be reporting. Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: different icons if internet is available
On Sat, 2007-05-19 at 11:59 +, yelo_3 wrote: Maybe http connect would be the most complete choice between the 3 you gave But I'm still wondering how this is implemented in windows.. if you can be http connected with gnome.org you are quite sure you can at least http connect to the most internet sites (unless your firewall/proxy is configured to let you connect only to this, so it might be a solution to not only check gnome.org, but other sites too - maybe your distribution site), except filtered hosts. Again, I suppose that if gnome.org and your-distribution.org are reachable this means that your admin has not blocked the access to most web pages... What do you think? No solution for p2p or IM in my mind, suggestions accepted. Anyway my ISP is blocking MAIL and hily limiting p2p flows, but this does not mean that I'm not connected to the internet, does it? For sure your ISP is censoring some web pages even if you don't know, but you are on internet too! The definition of being on internet is definitely not easy... But it is possible to make suppositions. This is my opinion Captive portals for Wifi also make this really, really hard. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but I feel like it's something that shouldn't be in NM itself, but in a plugin of some sort so people can use it if they want to. The problem with this sort of check is that it makes various people really angry. It makes admins angry, because it's essentially (to them) useless traffic, and what happens when you have 100 machines with NM on them with this enabled? It makes some users angry because NM is generating useless (to them) traffic because they already know. It's also a really hard problem to determine if you actually _are_ on the internet due to captive portals, firewalls, NATs, etc. So in the end, it shouldn't be on by default. Dan What is yours? Thank you. - Messaggio originale - Da: Nikolaus Filus [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: network manager networkmanager-list@gnome.org Inviato: Sabato 19 maggio 2007, 13:31:33 Oggetto: Re: different icons if internet is available Hi, yelo_3 wrote: I've implemented the most code, except the function that decides if internet is available or not. In fact I'm thinking of this problem. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=439310 an isolated network access cannot of course reach the most internet locations we could discuss on this... for instance in might be: internet on if ubuntu.com and gnome.org are reachable otherwise internet off. Of course it is not a complete solution, it is only a try. what do you mean by gnome.org is reachable - is it, if you can 1) dns lookup www.gnome.org 2) ICMP echo www.gnome.org 3) http connect www.gnome.org so what if 1) there is a firewall or 2) a transparent proxy in between and you get a positive answer for one of the above tests or only some filtered hosts? The user would see internet is on, but his IM, p2p, mail or anything else doesn't work as suspected. Yes, I'm also annoyed, that beeing connected through NM and cisco VPN my gaim/pidgin thinks it can connect to its servers and shows error popups all the time. But at the same time, I don't see a general-purpose solution for the problem. Just my 2 ¢ Nikolaus ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail: http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: different icons if internet is available
I wouldn't mind a different icon for I hear wifi networks. I.e., when I'm not connected but NM hears wifi, it could show a different icon than when I'm disconnected and it DOESN'T hear wifi. THAT would be useful to me. -derek Quoting Dan Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Captive portals for Wifi also make this really, really hard. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but I feel like it's something that shouldn't be in NM itself, but in a plugin of some sort so people can use it if they want to. The problem with this sort of check is that it makes various people really angry. It makes admins angry, because it's essentially (to them) useless traffic, and what happens when you have 100 machines with NM on them with this enabled? It makes some users angry because NM is generating useless (to them) traffic because they already know. It's also a really hard problem to determine if you actually _are_ on the internet due to captive portals, firewalls, NATs, etc. So in the end, it shouldn't be on by default. Dan -- Derek Atkins, SB '93 MIT EE, SM '95 MIT Media Laboratory Member, MIT Student Information Processing Board (SIPB) URL: http://web.mit.edu/warlord/PP-ASEL-IA N1NWH [EMAIL PROTECTED]PGP key available ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: different icons if internet is available
I didn't understand the first probelm. And why are you talking about spyware? - Messaggio originale - Da: Simon Geard [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: networkmanager-list@gnome.org Inviato: Sabato 19 maggio 2007, 4:24:43 Oggetto: Re: different icons if internet is available On Fri, 2007-05-18 at 10:30 +, yelo_3 wrote: I've implemented the most code, except the function that decides if internet is available or not. In fact I'm thinking of this problem. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=439310 an isolated network access cannot of course reach the most internet locations we could discuss on this... for instance in might be: internet on if ubuntu.com and gnome.org are reachable otherwise internet off. I suspect many people would be unhappy to find that NetworkManager appeared to be phoning home - a service for managing a local network interface really shouldn't be wandering out across the wider internet. Harmless though it might be, I can already picture the Slashdot crowd screaming about spyware... Simon. ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail: http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: different icons if internet is available
Hi, yelo_3 wrote: I've implemented the most code, except the function that decides if internet is available or not. In fact I'm thinking of this problem. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=439310 an isolated network access cannot of course reach the most internet locations we could discuss on this... for instance in might be: internet on if ubuntu.com and gnome.org are reachable otherwise internet off. Of course it is not a complete solution, it is only a try. what do you mean by gnome.org is reachable - is it, if you can 1) dns lookup www.gnome.org 2) ICMP echo www.gnome.org 3) http connect www.gnome.org so what if 1) there is a firewall or 2) a transparent proxy in between and you get a positive answer for one of the above tests or only some filtered hosts? The user would see internet is on, but his IM, p2p, mail or anything else doesn't work as suspected. Yes, I'm also annoyed, that beeing connected through NM and cisco VPN my gaim/pidgin thinks it can connect to its servers and shows error popups all the time. But at the same time, I don't see a general-purpose solution for the problem. Just my 2 ¢ Nikolaus ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: different icons if internet is available
Maybe http connect would be the most complete choice between the 3 you gave But I'm still wondering how this is implemented in windows.. if you can be http connected with gnome.org you are quite sure you can at least http connect to the most internet sites (unless your firewall/proxy is configured to let you connect only to this, so it might be a solution to not only check gnome.org, but other sites too - maybe your distribution site), except filtered hosts. Again, I suppose that if gnome.org and your-distribution.org are reachable this means that your admin has not blocked the access to most web pages... What do you think? No solution for p2p or IM in my mind, suggestions accepted. Anyway my ISP is blocking MAIL and hily limiting p2p flows, but this does not mean that I'm not connected to the internet, does it? For sure your ISP is censoring some web pages even if you don't know, but you are on internet too! The definition of being on internet is definitely not easy... But it is possible to make suppositions. This is my opinion What is yours? Thank you. - Messaggio originale - Da: Nikolaus Filus [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: network manager networkmanager-list@gnome.org Inviato: Sabato 19 maggio 2007, 13:31:33 Oggetto: Re: different icons if internet is available Hi, yelo_3 wrote: I've implemented the most code, except the function that decides if internet is available or not. In fact I'm thinking of this problem. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=439310 an isolated network access cannot of course reach the most internet locations we could discuss on this... for instance in might be: internet on if ubuntu.com and gnome.org are reachable otherwise internet off. Of course it is not a complete solution, it is only a try. what do you mean by gnome.org is reachable - is it, if you can 1) dns lookup www.gnome.org 2) ICMP echo www.gnome.org 3) http connect www.gnome.org so what if 1) there is a firewall or 2) a transparent proxy in between and you get a positive answer for one of the above tests or only some filtered hosts? The user would see internet is on, but his IM, p2p, mail or anything else doesn't work as suspected. Yes, I'm also annoyed, that beeing connected through NM and cisco VPN my gaim/pidgin thinks it can connect to its servers and shows error popups all the time. But at the same time, I don't see a general-purpose solution for the problem. Just my 2 ¢ Nikolaus ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail: http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: different icons if internet is available
On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 20:12 +, yelo_3 wrote: Hello, just a proposal: it would be great that NM-applet icon could add a small world,located in a corner, if internet is reachable, checked every N minutes... what do you think? it is not hard to implement it, am I right? Not hard? Well, the first thing is, what do you actually mean by internet is reachable? What's the difference between an isolated local network, and one with what a person might call 'internet access'? Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: different icons if internet is available
I've implemented the most code, except the function that decides if internet is available or not. In fact I'm thinking of this problem. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=439310 an isolated network access cannot of course reach the most internet locations we could discuss on this... for instance in might be: internet on if ubuntu.com and gnome.org are reachable otherwise internet off. Of course it is not a complete solution, it is only a try. I'm trying to think of how this is implemented in the new windows vista - Messaggio originale - Da: Simon Geard [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: networkmanager-list@gnome.org Inviato: Venerdì 18 maggio 2007, 12:14:51 Oggetto: Re: different icons if internet is available On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 20:12 +, yelo_3 wrote: Hello, just a proposal: it would be great that NM-applet icon could add a small world,located in a corner, if internet is reachable, checked every N minutes... what do you think? it is not hard to implement it, am I right? Not hard? Well, the first thing is, what do you actually mean by internet is reachable? What's the difference between an isolated local network, and one with what a person might call 'internet access'? Simon. ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list ___ L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail: http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: different icons if internet is available
On Fri, 2007-05-18 at 10:30 +, yelo_3 wrote: I've implemented the most code, except the function that decides if internet is available or not. In fact I'm thinking of this problem. http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=439310 an isolated network access cannot of course reach the most internet locations we could discuss on this... for instance in might be: internet on if ubuntu.com and gnome.org are reachable otherwise internet off. I suspect many people would be unhappy to find that NetworkManager appeared to be phoning home - a service for managing a local network interface really shouldn't be wandering out across the wider internet. Harmless though it might be, I can already picture the Slashdot crowd screaming about spyware... Simon. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: different icons if internet is available
sorry, but isn't the applet in the same project as NetworkManager?? if not where should I send a patch to implement this? - Messaggio originale - Da: Patrick Bogen [EMAIL PROTECTED] A: yelo_3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: network manager networkmanager-list@gnome.org Inviato: Giovedì 17 maggio 2007, 23:44:29 Oggetto: Re: different icons if internet is available On 5/17/07, yelo_3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, just a proposal: it would be great that NM-applet icon could add a small world,located in a corner, if internet is reachable, checked every N minutes... This seems like it's out of the scope of NetworkManager, let alone nm-applet. It's almost certainly better implemented as a standalone applet, since this really has nothing at all to do with configuring network interfaces. -- - Patrick Bogen ___ L'email della prossima generazione? Puoi averla con la nuova Yahoo! Mail: http://it.docs.yahoo.com/nowyoucan.html ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
Re: different icons if internet is available
On 5/17/07, yelo_3 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sorry, but isn't the applet in the same project as NetworkManager?? if not where should I send a patch to implement this? Sorry, I misread. I thought you were asking for a seperate tray icon. Nevertheless, I'm not sure if this is strictly in the scope of NetworkManager (for one thing, how would you determine whether or not you can access the internet?). Now, as I see it, there are three ways to implement this that touch NetworkManager or nm-applet: (1) Implement it purely within nm-applet. This is, in my opinion, wrong; nm-applet is purely a configuration and dbus interface to NetworkManager. It shouldn't have any functionality on its own. (2) Implement it within NetworkManager, and nm-applet gets the information over dbus. This is better, but still: The focus of NetworkManager is to configure your network, not necessarily to tell you any information about your network. It doesn't map samba servers or tell you if there's VPN available, why should it tell you if there's a route to some arbitrary website? (3) Write another dbus backend that does this task, and feeds nm-applet the information. Well, maybe. But nm-applet is supposed to only talk to NetworkManager (unless I've misunderstood its purpose), and this would start to be a bit of feature creep. So, the remaining option is a standalone tray icon (with whatever architecture you want, dbus or otherwise). I honestly think this is the best solution, as it tends towards keeping NetworkManager trimmed down and focused, relatively speaking. Now, as a disclaimer: I am not a dev. I have no sway over this project, other than rhetorical. If you write a patch and submit it as an RFE, it may well get accepted and integrated. Anything above is *purely* my opinion, and does not necessarily reflect NetworkManager's philosophy or policy. I do sincerely believe, however, that writing a separate daemon would be just as difficult or easy as modifying nm-applet and NetworkManager to do this the correct way, and encourage you to choose this route, if you choose to implement this yourself, rather than trying to tie your work into NetworkManager. -- - Patrick Bogen ___ NetworkManager-list mailing list NetworkManager-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/networkmanager-list
