Re: [Nix-dev] Nixos wiki project

[Profpatsch]

On 17-05-16 09:52pm, Jos van den Oever wrote:
> On Friday 12 May 2017 20:36:59 Matthias Beyer wrote:
> > On 10-05-2017 10:52:16, Arseniy Seroka wrote:
> > > I think that disabling wiki is one of the the worst
> > > decisions in nixos community.
> > 
> > +1
> 
> I think it's unfortunate that a free software project chooses a closed 
> platform to do development. GitHub is not even open core like GitLab.

Didn’t we have a FAQ somewhere
where these decisions are explained?

If not, it should probably go into the Wiki. :D

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Re: [Nix-dev] Nixos wiki project

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 05/16/2017 09:52 PM, Jos van den Oever wrote:
> I think it's unfortunate that a free software project chooses a closed 
> platform to do development. GitHub is not even open core like GitLab.

When the choice was done years ago, GitLab was very non-competitive.  I
don't think that holds anymore, but changes are expensive.  I'm
personally rather grateful to what GitHub has done for open-source
projects in the past years.

--Vladimir



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Re: [Nix-dev] Nixos wiki project

[Jos van den Oever]

On Friday 12 May 2017 20:36:59 Matthias Beyer wrote:
> On 10-05-2017 10:52:16, Arseniy Seroka wrote:
> > I think that disabling wiki is one of the the worst
> > decisions in nixos community.
> 
> +1

I think it's unfortunate that a free software project chooses a closed 
platform to do development. GitHub is not even open core like GitLab.


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Re: [Nix-dev] Nixos wiki project

[Felix Richter]

On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 11:02:40AM +0300, Danylo Hlynskyi wrote:
> People also can subscribe to wiki changes using
> https://github.com/nixos-users/wiki/wiki.atom RSS feed

Most of the time you will find the atom feed of the wiki relatively
hard to digest - changes are not shown as diff but as full view.

To get a quick overview about changes i've built an annoucement bot which
listens for github hooks based on a very simple logstash config.
Output looks like this:

  "Garbage collection" created by danbst https://git.io/v9bqB
  "Alternative Package Sets" edited by danbst https://git.io/v9bqo


Source code is stored at 
http://cgit.euer.krebsco.de/stockholm/tree/makefu/2configs/deployment/wiki-irc.nix#n7

Today, i've moved the nixos-wiki annoucement bot to #nixos. If there is
someone who is bothered by that i will disable the bot again.

Regards,

Felix

> 2017-05-10 9:56 GMT+03:00 Mic92 :
> 
> > As the official wiki is now finally part of the history:
> > https://nixos.org/nixos/wiki.html,
> > we have started our own community wiki:
> >
> >   https://github.com/nixos-users/wiki/wiki
> >
> > It is at the moment editable by every GitHub user and
> > we use our IRC channel #krebs to review and track changes.
> >
> > We invite you to dump your knowledge and useful snippets,
> > if you found out something cool about Nix/NixOS.
> >

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Re: [Nix-dev] Nixos wiki project

[Danylo Hlynskyi]

People also can subscribe to wiki changes using
https://github.com/nixos-users/wiki/wiki.atom RSS feed

2017-05-10 9:56 GMT+03:00 Mic92 :

> As the official wiki is now finally part of the history:
> https://nixos.org/nixos/wiki.html,
> we have started our own community wiki:
>
>   https://github.com/nixos-users/wiki/wiki
>
> It is at the moment editable by every GitHub user and
> we use our IRC channel #krebs to review and track changes.
>
> We invite you to dump your knowledge and useful snippets,
> if you found out something cool about Nix/NixOS.
>
> Cheers Mic92.
>
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Re: [Nix-dev] Nixos wiki project

[Matthias Beyer]

On 10-05-2017 10:52:16, Arseniy Seroka wrote:
> I think that disabling wiki is one of the the worst
> decisions in nixos community.

+1

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Kind regards,
Matthias Beyer

Consider switching to free software.
It adds value to your life.
https://www.gnu.org/


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Re: [Nix-dev] Nixos wiki project

[Profpatsch]

On 17-05-10 07:56am, Mic92 wrote:
> As the official wiki is now finally part of the history: 
> https://nixos.org/nixos/wiki.html,
> we have started our own community wiki:
> 
>   https://github.com/nixos-users/wiki/wiki
> 
> It is at the moment editable by every GitHub user and
> we use our IRC channel #krebs to review and track changes.

fyi, at the NixOS hackathon $Person
(which can reveal herself if they so choose)
tried to revive the official Mediawiki by enabling Github auth.

It didn’t succeed that day,
but in principle that should make the official Wiki usable again.

Alternatively simply declare the GH-Wiki the official one.
Pros: Markdown, Git repo, Github integrated
Cons: I can’t think of any

Of course set wiki.nixos.org to a 300 Redirect.

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Re: [Nix-dev] Nixos wiki project

[Matthew Bauer]

Mic92  writes:

> We invite you to dump your knowledge and useful snippets,
> if you found out something cool about Nix/NixOS.

I've added a few entries! Hope that didn't break anything.

Hopefully the best entries can be added into the main repo eventually.
That FAQ article would definitely be super helpful to beginners.
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Re: [Nix-dev] Nixos wiki project

[Eric Sagnes]

For the record, in attempt to overcome the linguistic barrier, there is a wiki
in Japanese (also on github) managed by the Tokyo NixOS meetup members:

  https://github.com/Tokyo-NixOS/Tokyo-NixOS-Meetup-Wiki/wiki

Any Japanese speaker is welcome to add or edit content.
New content requests via issues are also welcomed.

Cheers,

On Wed, May 10, 2017 at 07:56:57AM +0100, Mic92 wrote:
> As the official wiki is now finally part of the history: 
> https://nixos.org/nixos/wiki.html,
> we have started our own community wiki:
> 
>   https://github.com/nixos-users/wiki/wiki
> 
> It is at the moment editable by every GitHub user and
> we use our IRC channel #krebs to review and track changes.
> 
> We invite you to dump your knowledge and useful snippets,
> if you found out something cool about Nix/NixOS.
> 
> Cheers Mic92.
> 
> ___
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-- 
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サニエ エリック
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Re: [Nix-dev] Nixos wiki project

[Arseniy Seroka]

I'm happy to see that. I think that disabling wiki is one of the the worst
decisions in nixos community.

I really want to see the nixos wiki back on wiki engine.

But you've done a great job, thank you!


On 05/10/2017 10:44 AM, Azul wrote:
>
> +4
>
> On 10 May 2017 07:57, "Mic92"  > wrote:
>
> As the official wiki is now finally part of the history:
> https://nixos.org/nixos/wiki.html ,
> we have started our own community wiki:
>
>   https://github.com/nixos-users/wiki/wiki
> 
>
> It is at the moment editable by every GitHub user and
> we use our IRC channel #krebs to review and track changes.
>
> We invite you to dump your knowledge and useful snippets,
> if you found out something cool about Nix/NixOS.
>
> Cheers Mic92.
>
> ___
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> nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl 
> https://mailman.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
> 
>
>
>
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-- 
Sincerely,
Arseniy Seroka



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Re: [Nix-dev] Nixos wiki project

[Azul]

+4
On 10 May 2017 07:57, "Mic92"  wrote:

> As the official wiki is now finally part of the history:
> https://nixos.org/nixos/wiki.html,
> we have started our own community wiki:
>
>   https://github.com/nixos-users/wiki/wiki
>
> It is at the moment editable by every GitHub user and
> we use our IRC channel #krebs to review and track changes.
>
> We invite you to dump your knowledge and useful snippets,
> if you found out something cool about Nix/NixOS.
>
> Cheers Mic92.
>
> ___
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> nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 09/26/2015 12:07 AM, Matthias Beyer wrote:
> I agree. I wanted to create a new organization for this and publish
> the repository on the organizations account and github page.
> 
> Something like github.com/nixos-wiki
> 
> or something similar. I explicitely want _not_ to include the wiki in
> the "normal" nixos account.

There's no need for another organization, I think. It's already the case
that nixos members have different access to different repositories.




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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Matthias Beyer]

Hi,

On 26-09-2015 09:04:57, Eric Sagnes wrote:
> 
> I would be great to have support for i18n, including guidelines and
> workflows for foreign languages. (eg: Who with merging privileges can 
> determine if a contribution in thai is not spam?)
> 

I can try to work out i18n, of course.

Guidelines are a must-have, I agree with you. My current template
includes some short tutorials on how to setup and write in the wiki.
Of course, this is work in progress and needs to be improved a lot.

> Git and command line can be a big hurdle for non technical users, so to 
> help them there should be a beginner tutorial on how to contribute  
> and an alternative way to submit content (for example in an 
> issue with a dedicated label)

And via the github editor, as others have pointed out!

> 
> PRs are great for big commits but they can brings more friction for minor
> changes like grammar or typo fixes.
> And specially if the number of pages get big it can means a large number
> of 1~10 characters change PR. (Using issues for minor edits could be a 
> solution)
> 

I don't think one has to update 10 pages at once with _much_ content.
Maybe some linking fixes if a topic gets moved to a sub-page or
something, but I don't think there will be patches with
content-changes over 10 pages at once.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Kind regards,
Matthias Beyer

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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Matthias Beyer]

On 26-09-2015 08:12:30, Vladimír Čunát wrote:
> On 09/26/2015 12:07 AM, Matthias Beyer wrote:
> > I agree. I wanted to create a new organization for this and publish
> > the repository on the organizations account and github page.
> > 
> > Something like github.com/nixos-wiki
> > 
> > or something similar. I explicitely want _not_ to include the wiki in
> > the "normal" nixos account.
> 
> There's no need for another organization, I think. It's already the case
> that nixos members have different access to different repositories.
> 

... and I'm a bit concerned that a nixos-wiki repository results in
the same mess as the nixpkgs, where everybody pushes around. But
that's another topic and should be discussed elsewhere, of course.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Kind regards,
Matthias Beyer

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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Jascha Geerds]

There is also Pelican, a static site generator written in python. I
don't know how it compares to Jekyll:

http://blog.getpelican.com/
https://github.com/getpelican/pelican

-- 
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  j...@ekby.de
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 09/25/2015 04:28 PM, Matthias Beyer wrote:
> and 1GB installation, as you mentioned.
> 
> I used Jekyll because I don't know Haskell (I know a bit, but not
> enough) and I can see that haskell puts off a lot of people just
> because it is different. [...]

I believe we can work around those as follows: compile the generator
statically. Consequently, for people that don't change our generator
code, only a few-megabyte executable would be downloaded from Hydra and
it would be used to generate the pages. Most wiki contributors will
never (need to) touch any (Haskell) code.


Vladimir




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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Eelco Dolstra]

Hi,

On 25/09/15 16:04, Matthias Beyer wrote:

>> This is essentially how the NixOS homepage is built, i.e., a git repository +
>> Template Toolkit + a makefile. And of course you can make pull requests on
>> GitHub. But I wouldn't call that a wiki, since you can't easily edit it from 
>> a
>> browser, or make it world-writable. But if we do want go that way, another
>> possibility is GitHub Pages + Jekyll.
> 
> github pages + jekyll is _exactly_ what I proposed.

Ah sorry, I didn't read properly.

>> The main advantage of using a GitHub wiki is that we then don't have to 
>> manage
>> user accounts and deal with spammers.
> 
> As we would use github for PR merging when using a static-site-wiki. So this
> holds true for static pages as I proposed, too.

Right.

-- 
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 09/25/2015 04:58 PM, Jookia wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 04:01:21PM +0200, Matthias Beyer wrote:
>> What do you mean by proprietary tools? Jekyll, Bundler, git - all open
>> source. The only thing which would be non-open source are the web
>> servers who host the generated html files and the travis-ci build
>> machines!
> 
> github tools like github's wiki require nonfree code to run on your machine in
> the form of javascript to contribute properly. You may be able to get by 
> without
> it but it's a huge pain in the neck.

The point is you won't have to use github. Just edit files in your local
checkout and commit it. For creating a PR you maybe do need it (though
the CLI interface probably can do that as well), but that's much more of
concern for the main nixpkgs code, not the wiki...


If people aren't much against Hakyll, I'll have a closer look during and
hopefully get a prototype during the weekend. I can maintain that
Haskell code long-term, if you like.


Vladimir




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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Matthias Beyer]

On 25-09-2015 17:07:23, Vladimír Čunát wrote:
> 
> The point is you won't have to use github. Just edit files in your local
> checkout and commit it. For creating a PR you maybe do need it (though
> the CLI interface probably can do that as well), but that's much more of
> concern for the main nixpkgs code, not the wiki...
> 

That's right.

> 
> If people aren't much against Hakyll, I'll have a closer look during and
> hopefully get a prototype during the weekend. I can maintain that
> Haskell code long-term, if you like.
> 

Effort has already been made[0] (not hakyll though) and my template is
basically usable! - I mean, if you want to, do so. And of course, I
will maintain everything, including the wiki if we decide to do it my
way (and I accept patches via mail as well).

[0]: https://github.com/matthiasbeyer/wiki.template/tree/transform-to-jekyll

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Kind regards,
Matthias Beyer

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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Arseniy Seroka]

+1 for hakyll.

-- 
Sincerely,
Arseniy Seroka



On 25 September 2015 18:07:38 Vladimír Čunát  wrote:

> On 09/25/2015 04:58 PM, Jookia wrote:
>> On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 04:01:21PM +0200, Matthias Beyer wrote:
>>> What do you mean by proprietary tools? Jekyll, Bundler, git - all open
>>> source. The only thing which would be non-open source are the web
>>> servers who host the generated html files and the travis-ci build
>>> machines!
>>
>> github tools like github's wiki require nonfree code to run on your machine 
>> in
>> the form of javascript to contribute properly. You may be able to get by 
>> without
>> it but it's a huge pain in the neck.
>
> The point is you won't have to use github. Just edit files in your local
> checkout and commit it. For creating a PR you maybe do need it (though
> the CLI interface probably can do that as well), but that's much more of
> concern for the main nixpkgs code, not the wiki...
>
>
> If people aren't much against Hakyll, I'll have a closer look during and
> hopefully get a prototype during the weekend. I can maintain that
> Haskell code long-term, if you like.
>
>
> Vladimir
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Nicolas Pierron]

I think having a wiki in git can be a big trouble for users who don't
know where to find the "edit" / "login" buttons, but I am sure that we
can make the proper template in due time to wrap an interface around
such system.

On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 3:49 PM, Eelco Dolstra
 wrote:
> […] But I wouldn't call that a wiki, since you can't easily edit it from a
> browser, or make it world-writable. But if we do want go that way, another
> possibility is GitHub Pages + Jekyll.

Also, I wanted to mention that Github offers an option for modifying
pages without even cloning the repository on your computer.  Which
makes this approach less painful for making contributions.

https://help.github.com/articles/editing-files-in-your-repository/

I am sure that a review process is good for the quality and
consistency of the wiki, but we should *clearly* document how people
can contribute to the wiki:
 - Open an issue for the lack of documentation
 - Use the ACE editor to edit pages online and submit pull requests
 - Clone the repository to edit and preview pages locally.

Also, I think that having an issue tracker to highlight the lack of
documentation is a really good idea.

-- 
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http://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolasbpierron - http://nbp.name/
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Matthias Beyer]

On 25-09-2015 20:58:36, Nicolas Pierron wrote:
> 
> Also, I wanted to mention that Github offers an option for modifying
> pages without even cloning the repository on your computer.  Which
> makes this approach less painful for making contributions.
> 
> https://help.github.com/articles/editing-files-in-your-repository/

Indeed.

> 
> I am sure that a review process is good for the quality and
> consistency of the wiki, but we should *clearly* document how people
> can contribute to the wiki:
>  - Open an issue for the lack of documentation
>  - Use the ACE editor to edit pages online and submit pull requests
>  - Clone the repository to edit and preview pages locally.
> 
> Also, I think that having an issue tracker to highlight the lack of
> documentation is a really good idea.
> 

I agree. I wanted to create a new organization for this and publish
the repository on the organizations account and github page.

Something like github.com/nixos-wiki

or something similar. I explicitely want _not_ to include the wiki in
the "normal" nixos account.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Kind regards,
Matthias Beyer

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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Eric Sagnes]

Hi,

A few considerations:

I would be great to have support for i18n, including guidelines and
workflows for foreign languages. (eg: Who with merging privileges can 
determine if a contribution in thai is not spam?)

Git and command line can be a big hurdle for non technical users, so to 
help them there should be a beginner tutorial on how to contribute  
and an alternative way to submit content (for example in an 
issue with a dedicated label)

PRs are great for big commits but they can brings more friction for minor
changes like grammar or typo fixes.
And specially if the number of pages get big it can means a large number
of 1~10 characters change PR. (Using issues for minor edits could be a 
solution)

Cheers,

On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 02:24:56PM +0200, Matthias Beyer wrote:
> On 25-09-2015 12:58:14, Eelco Dolstra wrote:
> > However, an alternative to relicensing is to combine it with a move to a
> > different Wiki, which many people have wanted in the past anyway. For 
> > instance,
> > we could set up a GitHub wiki, and people could copy their own 
> > contributions to
> > the new wiki. The new wiki should of course have a license from the start.
> 
> Well, if we start this discussion here:
> 
> In fact, I asked the licensing question _because_ I'm working on an
> alternative wiki for nixos. The whole point of my question is that I
> want to be sure that I can use contents from the official wiki.
> 
> I didn't want to ask for permission that early, so I just
> asked about the license of the wiki and docs, but well... as we are at
> that point in our discussion now...
> 
> Anyhow, I strongly disagree with your proposal to use the github wiki.
> It is _far_ to complicated to keep things organized in there. Subpages
> and all this stuff.
> 
> Of course, I did some investigation on the subject. I tried several
> wiki software packages.
> 
> Let me elaborate:
> 
> My requirements:
> 
> 1. git. I want to have the content (and, if possible, all
>metainformation like page templates and so on) tracked in git.
> 
>Contributions would go through git as well. So why is that? I
>can already hear voices argueing about this. Yes, it is
>a bit of an obstacle if you are only able to contribute via a
>pull-request procedure.
> 
>BUT there are some big pro points:
> 
> 1) Contributions are reviewed. One can't argue with that.
>People can actually review contributions before they go
>online. This keeps up the quality of the wiki and
>automatically protects it against abuse. I believe that this
>becomes more important as the wiki (or the number of people
>involved in nix{wiki, os, pkgs, }) grows.
> 
> 2) Having a long(ish) running process for adding/editing
>content of the wiki keeps people from "just pasting this in
>the wiki somewhere". I believe that if there is a bit of a
>process behind all this, it keeps people from just dropping
>in content.
> 
> Some more pro points which are not that major as the ones
> above:
> 
> 3) git-log. You can log the history of single articles or even
>topic-trees (speaking of subdirectories). You can do the
>former with, for example, MediaWiki. But not the latter, I
>guess.
> 
> 4) git-blame. You can actually see what happened where. And
>yes, you can do this wiki MediaWiki, too. But tell me:
>How often have you actually done this?
> 
> Of course there are more points. Let me summarize them: git.
> 
> 2. One-click contributions (not really, actually). I want user to
>be able to do contributions with only a few commandline calls.
>Idea was that a user only needs to fork the repository, edit the
>contents of some Markdown page and rebuild the wiki to review.
>One-click contributions like in a MediaWiki instance is not what
>I want, as described in 1.
> 
> 3. Local clone.
>Well, git gives us the opportunity to run a _full clone_ of the
>wiki locally. You cannot do this with MediaWiki (maybe you can,
>but not _that_ easy).
> 
> Okay, so here are the things I reviewed:
> 
> - gitit (Haskell, integrated with nixos)
> - gollum (ruby, actually the software that powers the github wiki)
> 
> These are the only options I found for a wiki with git as backend.
> 
> gitit
> -
> 
> Gitit is awesome. It works great and is fast.
> Anyways, it has some issues. First, it does not track templates.
> You can write page templates, but they are not tracked in git.
> I had to do some nasty hacks for this.
> 
> The templates cannot be used to generate, for example, warning
> blocks:
> 
> { warning_block "Do not install this in User env" }
> 
> (Just an example, not the actual markup for templates)
> The above is 

Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Eelco Dolstra]

Hi,

On 25/09/15 14:24, Matthias Beyer wrote:

> So, an idea came up - why not using static pages for all of this? If you
> want to do contributions via git, you can use github. If one want to
> host it, one can use github pages and build it with travis-ci. These
> things are documented and they _work_ for other people, so why not for
> a wiki?
> 
> To be able to build pages with travis-ci and github pages, one needs a
> static site compiler. 

This is essentially how the NixOS homepage is built, i.e., a git repository +
Template Toolkit + a makefile. And of course you can make pull requests on
GitHub. But I wouldn't call that a wiki, since you can't easily edit it from a
browser, or make it world-writable. But if we do want go that way, another
possibility is GitHub Pages + Jekyll.

The main advantage of using a GitHub wiki is that we then don't have to manage
user accounts and deal with spammers. But as you say, the downside is that we
can't customize much.

-- 
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Jookia]

On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 03:49:08PM +0200, Eelco Dolstra wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 25/09/15 14:24, Matthias Beyer wrote:
> 
> > So, an idea came up - why not using static pages for all of this? If you
> > want to do contributions via git, you can use github. If one want to
> > host it, one can use github pages and build it with travis-ci. These
> > things are documented and they _work_ for other people, so why not for
> > a wiki?
> > 
> > To be able to build pages with travis-ci and github pages, one needs a
> > static site compiler. 
> 
> This is essentially how the NixOS homepage is built, i.e., a git repository +
> Template Toolkit + a makefile. And of course you can make pull requests on
> GitHub. But I wouldn't call that a wiki, since you can't easily edit it from a
> browser, or make it world-writable. But if we do want go that way, another
> possibility is GitHub Pages + Jekyll.
> 
> The main advantage of using a GitHub wiki is that we then don't have to manage
> user accounts and deal with spammers. But as you say, the downside is that we
> can't customize much.

A huge disadvantage of using github tools are that they're proprietary, so
people using free systems can't contribute (easily.) What about ikiwiki?
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Matthias Beyer]

On 25-09-2015 15:49:08, Eelco Dolstra wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On 25/09/15 14:24, Matthias Beyer wrote:
> 
> > So, an idea came up - why not using static pages for all of this? If you
> > want to do contributions via git, you can use github. If one want to
> > host it, one can use github pages and build it with travis-ci. These
> > things are documented and they _work_ for other people, so why not for
> > a wiki?
> > 
> > To be able to build pages with travis-ci and github pages, one needs a
> > static site compiler. 
> 
> This is essentially how the NixOS homepage is built, i.e., a git repository +
> Template Toolkit + a makefile. And of course you can make pull requests on
> GitHub. But I wouldn't call that a wiki, since you can't easily edit it from a
> browser, or make it world-writable. But if we do want go that way, another
> possibility is GitHub Pages + Jekyll.

github pages + jekyll is _exactly_ what I proposed.

> 
> The main advantage of using a GitHub wiki is that we then don't have to manage
> user accounts and deal with spammers.
> 

As we would use github for PR merging when using a static-site-wiki. So this
holds true for static pages as I proposed, too.

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Kind regards,
Matthias Beyer

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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Edward Tjörnhammar]

On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 11:53:24PM +1000, Jookia wrote:
> On Fri, Sep 25, 2015 at 03:49:08PM +0200, Eelco Dolstra wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > On 25/09/15 14:24, Matthias Beyer wrote:
> >
> > > So, an idea came up - why not using static pages for all of this? If you
> > > want to do contributions via git, you can use github. If one want to
> > > host it, one can use github pages and build it with travis-ci. These
> > > things are documented and they _work_ for other people, so why not for
> > > a wiki?
> > >
> > > To be able to build pages with travis-ci and github pages, one needs a
> > > static site compiler.
> >
> > This is essentially how the NixOS homepage is built, i.e., a git repository 
> > +
> > Template Toolkit + a makefile. And of course you can make pull requests on
> > GitHub. But I wouldn't call that a wiki, since you can't easily edit it 
> > from a
> > browser, or make it world-writable. But if we do want go that way, another
> > possibility is GitHub Pages + Jekyll.
> >
> > The main advantage of using a GitHub wiki is that we then don't have to 
> > manage
> > user accounts and deal with spammers. But as you say, the downside is that 
> > we
> > can't customize much.
>
> A huge disadvantage of using github tools are that they're proprietary, so
> people using free systems can't contribute (easily.) What about ikiwiki?

Actually I believe that you can edit github wiki pages by just cloning,
committing and pushing, as an example:

git clone https://github.com/libgdx/libgdx.wiki.git libgdx-wiki

I don't know if you can do PR's for wiki content but I guess so.

Also you could then clone that gitrepo and put that checkout as the
wikidata path to gitit, since pandoc can read github markdown, and point
to the mainpage using the gitit configuration option. You would of
course still need to poll the github wiki.. Also this would mean that
the contribution model doesn't really change since if you want to be
anonymous you can run your own gitit/nixos-wiki clone and then submit
patches back via email?

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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 09/25/2015 04:18 PM, Vladimír Čunát wrote:
> I've got great experience with Hakyll

The only downside to Hakyll I can see is that apparently you need ~1 GB
of Haskell stuff to build the site :-/



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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS-Wiki alternative. Was: What license does the content of the nixos wiki and the manuals have?

[Matthias Beyer]

On 25-09-2015 16:18:31, Vladimír Čunát wrote:
> On 09/25/2015 02:24 PM, Matthias Beyer wrote:
> > So, an idea came up - why not using static pages for all of this?
> 
> Yeah, sounds good. Actually, you can edit and preview files on github
> easily - it's two clicks to get a PR with the changes (at least markdown
> is previewed).

Glad you like it!

Yes, you can view markdown on github and also create pull requests
with the github user interface - almost forgot about that. So
contributing would be _that_ simple!

> 
> Personally, I've got great experience with Hakyll, "running"
> http://vcunat.matfyz.cz for years. The flexibility is really great,
> XMonad-like and combined with the power of pandoc...
> 

and 1GB installation, as you mentioned.

I used Jekyll because I don't know Haskell (I know a bit, but not
enough) and I can see that haskell puts off a lot of people just
because it is different. Using Jekyll was just a sound decision. It is
maintained, really easy to extend and there's a load of documentation
on how to use it, build with travis etc etc etc. Everything is just
_there_ and you just have to plug parts together, you know?

-- 
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Kind regards,
Matthias Beyer

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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS Wiki Email is broken

[Eelco Dolstra]

Hi,

On 26/06/14 18:10, Michael R wrote:

 Email function on NixOS wiki has been broken for some time now.

Yeah, we lost the ability to send email when we moved nixos.org to EC2.

 Any chance
 someone can take a look at it? Trying to get my password.

If you want, I can reset your password manually.

-- 
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[Eelco Dolstra]

Hi,

On 13/04/13 00:54, Eelco Dolstra wrote:

 Yes, thanks, it seems very much better now. I tried to add to the
 page and the letters show OK. Only the Cz from the beginning of
 the line got erased, I don't know why.

 The diff shows the 'z'.
 https://nixos.org/w/index.php?title=Testaction=historysubmitdiff=4343oldid=4342

 Something looks rotten still.
 
 Apparently our PHP is somehow broken on 32-bit Linux.  Running MediaWiki on
 64-bit works fine...

Switching nixos.org from 32-bit to 64-bit didn't change anything [1].  However,
I finally did find the cause: the Zabbix installation on the same machine set
the PHP configuration option mbstring.func_overload to 2, causing the
semantics of string functions to change globally, i.e. for Mediawiki as well.
Such a wonderful language...

Anyway, it should be fixed now.

[1] Fortunately this experiment didn't take long.  I just changed the
nixpkgs.system option in configuration.nix from i686-linux to x86_64-linux
and ran nixos-rebuild boot.  Admittedly that only worked because distributed
builds are enabled on that machine :-)

-- 
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[phreedom]

On Пятница 17 мая 2013 15:29:09 Eelco Dolstra wrote:
 Switching nixos.org from 32-bit to 64-bit didn't change anything [1]. 
 However, I finally did find the cause: the Zabbix installation on the same
 machine set the PHP configuration option mbstring.func_overload to 2,
 causing the semantics of string functions to change globally, i.e. for
 Mediawiki as well. Such a wonderful language...
 
 Anyway, it should be fixed now.

I don't understand why it still exists tbh.

 [1] Fortunately this experiment didn't take long.  I just changed the
 nixpkgs.system option in configuration.nix from i686-linux to
 x86_64-linux and ran nixos-rebuild boot.  Admittedly that only worked
 because distributed builds are enabled on that machine :-)

Apparently NixOS is the only distro which lets you flip arch and moreover keep 
2 different arch configs bootable at once :)
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[Eelco Dolstra]

Hi,

On 11/04/13 19:57, Lluís Batlle i Rossell wrote:

 Yes, thanks, it seems very much better now. I tried to add to the
 page and the letters show OK. Only the Cz from the beginning of
 the line got erased, I don't know why.
 
 The diff shows the 'z'.
 https://nixos.org/w/index.php?title=Testaction=historysubmitdiff=4343oldid=4342
 
 Something looks rotten still.

Apparently our PHP is somehow broken on 32-bit Linux.  Running MediaWiki on
64-bit works fine...

-- 
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[Lluís Batlle i Rossell]

On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 12:54:33AM +0200, Eelco Dolstra wrote:
 Hi,
 
 On 11/04/13 19:57, Lluís Batlle i Rossell wrote:
 
  Yes, thanks, it seems very much better now. I tried to add to the
  page and the letters show OK. Only the Cz from the beginning of
  the line got erased, I don't know why.
  
  The diff shows the 'z'.
  https://nixos.org/w/index.php?title=Testaction=historysubmitdiff=4343oldid=4342
  
  Something looks rotten still.
 
 Apparently our PHP is somehow broken on 32-bit Linux.  Running MediaWiki on
 64-bit works fine...

Maybe it's just this page, that has some broken utf-8 sequences?
https://nixos.org/w/index.php?title=Testdiff=prevoldid=4340
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[Eelco Dolstra]

Hi,

On 13/04/13 01:40, Lluís Batlle i Rossell wrote:

 Apparently our PHP is somehow broken on 32-bit Linux.  Running MediaWiki on
 64-bit works fine...
 
 Maybe it's just this page, that has some broken utf-8 sequences?
 https://nixos.org/w/index.php?title=Testdiff=prevoldid=4340

Nope, it's more than that.  See e.g. https://nixos.org/wiki/Special:Version.

-- 
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[Domen Kožar]

Thanks!


On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 6:36 PM, Eelco Dolstra
eelco.dols...@logicblox.comwrote:

 Hi all,

 It's once again possible to register users on the NixOS wiki.  It's also no
 longer necessary to register to edit pages.  To prevent spam, some actions
 (in
 particular registering as a new user and adding external hyperlinks) now
 require
 filling out a captcha.

 I've also upgraded the MediaWiki version on https://nixos.org/wiki to
 1.20.3.
 Since the NixOS wiki skin didn't look quite right in some places, I've
 changed
 the default skin to MediaWiki's default for the moment.  Will look into
 that
 later...

 Let me now if you see any problems (or spam!).

 --
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[Lluís Batlle i Rossell]

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 07:32:47PM +0200, Vladimír Čunát wrote:
 On 04/11/2013 07:26 PM, Marc Weber wrote:
 UTF-8 seems to work, too: https://nixos.org/wiki/Test, the í at the end.
 
 Yes, thanks, it seems very much better now. I tried to add to the
 page and the letters show OK. Only the Cz from the beginning of
 the line got erased, I don't know why.

The diff shows the 'z'.
https://nixos.org/w/index.php?title=Testaction=historysubmitdiff=4343oldid=4342

Something looks rotten still.
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[Lluís Batlle i Rossell]

On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 11:55:40AM +0200, Marc Weber wrote:
  - some offline editing support (git)?
 we talked about it - and we agree that there are ways - but also pay
 attention to what Eelco said: He fears that the quality of the contents
 of the wiki is not that great. So eventually start with telling us what
 you would add, and why it is not possible or too much work to do it with
 the current wiki.

For me, a big problem of the current mediawiki is that it doesn't allow people 
to
*propose* changes (as git branches + pull-requests allow).

We agree that the wiki needs a major rework; but in mediawiki style, you either
change the wiki for everyone, or you don't change it at all.

This ends up discouraging me from any attempt to improve the wiki:
1) I don't want to break it, while I do major structure changes
2) I feel that people can be offended, if my changes do not please them. And
it'll be a hell to roll all back to start over.

So, I think that the current wiki won't change much unless:
1) someone has a stone face to organize it caring little about others opinions
2) we agree giving full-control to somone in particular, to do those changes
fearless
3) we switch to a system where people can branch the wiki, do the changes in the
branch, and propose a merge

For me, the 3rd looks like the least violent.

I don't mean that the 3rd way should be the *only way* to change the wiki; the
current click-and-edit is perfect, but not for major structure reworks.

Regards,
Lluís.
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 04/10/2013 05:44 PM, Lluís Batlle i Rossell wrote:

On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 11:55:40AM +0200, Marc Weber wrote:

- some offline editing support (git)?

we talked about it - and we agree that there are ways - but also pay
attention to what Eelco said: He fears that the quality of the contents
of the wiki is not that great. So eventually start with telling us what
you would add, and why it is not possible or too much work to do it with
the current wiki.


For me, a big problem of the current mediawiki is that it doesn't allow people 
to
*propose* changes (as git branches + pull-requests allow).

We agree that the wiki needs a major rework; but in mediawiki style, you either
change the wiki for everyone, or you don't change it at all.


I second all that, both online editing and possibility of distributed 
offline work seems important to me.


Also having the manuals in there might be good thing, but Wiki is the 
main thing now.


Vlada



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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[Lluís Batlle i Rossell]

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 05:55:11PM +0200, Vladimír Čunát wrote:
 On 04/10/2013 05:44 PM, Lluís Batlle i Rossell wrote:
 On Mon, Apr 08, 2013 at 11:55:40AM +0200, Marc Weber wrote:
 - some offline editing support (git)?
 we talked about it - and we agree that there are ways - but also pay
 attention to what Eelco said: He fears that the quality of the contents
 of the wiki is not that great. So eventually start with telling us what
 you would add, and why it is not possible or too much work to do it with
 the current wiki.
 
 For me, a big problem of the current mediawiki is that it doesn't allow 
 people to
 *propose* changes (as git branches + pull-requests allow).
 
 We agree that the wiki needs a major rework; but in mediawiki style, you 
 either
 change the wiki for everyone, or you don't change it at all.
 
 I second all that, both online editing and possibility of
 distributed offline work seems important to me.

Well, I don't see distributed offline as a strong requirement. Many of us have
quite a regular internet link up. But there should be a way to evolve a branch
until it can be discussed and approved for merge.
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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 04/10/2013 06:29 PM, Lluís Batlle i Rossell wrote:

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 05:55:11PM +0200, Vladimír Čunát wrote:

I second all that, both online editing and possibility of
distributed offline work seems important to me.


Well, I don't see distributed offline as a strong requirement. Many of us have
quite a regular internet link up. But there should be a way to evolve a branch
until it can be discussed and approved for merge.


Ah, well, to clarify: by distributed I meant the support of easy 
branching + something like pull-requests, which is usually together with 
the offline DVCS style.


I agree that offline support isn't that necessary and I usually have an 
acceptable connection, except for ~5h/week in trains. I still prefer 
being without unnecessary dependencies (e.g. on being online).



Vlada




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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[Vladimír Čunát]

On 04/10/2013 06:29 PM, Lluís Batlle i Rossell wrote:

On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 05:55:11PM +0200, Vladimír Čunát wrote:

I second all that, both online editing and possibility of
distributed offline work seems important to me.


Well, I don't see distributed offline as a strong requirement. Many of us have
quite a regular internet link up. But there should be a way to evolve a branch
until it can be discussed and approved for merge.


Ah, well, to clarify: by distributed I meant the support of easy 
branching + something like pull-requests, which is usually together with 
the offline DVCS style.


I agree that offline support isn't that necessary and I usually have an 
acceptable connection, except for ~5h/week in trains. I still prefer 
being without unnecessary dependencies (e.g. on being online).



Vlada





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Re: [Nix-dev] NixOS wiki

[Marc Weber]

Excerpts from Domen Kožar's message of Sun Apr 07 11:10:09 +0200 2013:
 I'd like to help with growing community, [..]
:-) Great.

 The major blocker is the wiki. Currently there is no way to register,
So start with RTFM:
https://nixos.org/wiki/Main_Page
- How to contribute to the nix wiki (keep top)
- how to get an account
which says:
quote due to spam reasons you have to ask on the mailinglist
If this fails at least two times, I join your party.

So do that and see whether it works, then complain :)
You're welcome with helping, but in order to provide good
documentation, RTFM is the first step, I'm afraid.

The SPAM issue was picked up by people being responsible in reasonable
time, and they took action - what else do you want?

I personally want UTF-8 support:
How to reproduce?
Add Lluís this to an article, then hit the preview button.

 - clean UI for non-technical users
Maybe we need two wikis then? Try describing how you'd change the UI so
that everybody technical understands what you're talking about.

 - some offline editing support (git)?
we talked about it - and we agree that there are ways - but also pay
attention to what Eelco said: He fears that the quality of the contents
of the wiki is not that great. So eventually start with telling us what
you would add, and why it is not possible or too much work to do it with
the current wiki.

 - markdown formatting support (for reasons that it's wide spread and most
 simple to explain)
As I said earlier: What do you need to be succesful with a wiki?
  - headlines
  - code blocks
  - links
Should be reasonably easiy to learn this using any wiki fast.

 PS: I have imported current wiki into github wiki, but it lacks
 categorization and search: https://github.com/iElectric/nixos/wiki/_pages
First talk to the community, then wait 1-2 weeks, then take action -
otherwise your effort may not be adopted.
So talk about the contents you want to provide, and tell the community
why you think git will be so much faster than copying an article into
your editor of choice, editing it, copying it back and press the save
button.

Marc Weber
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