Re: [nlug] 185 TB tape?
You've always been ahead of your time! On Wednesday, May 14, 2014 3:35:05 PM UTC-5, Steven S. Critchfield wrote: In-line compression, yes, built into the backup app. deduplication, yes, built into our filestorage. - Original Message - Your 2008 solution had in-line compression and deduplication? Just wondering. Data Domain (the company and product) was founded in 2001 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Domain_%28corporation%29) On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Steven S. Critchfield cri...@basesys.com javascript:wrote: - Original Message - On Tuesday, May 13, 2014 12:08:04 PM UTC-5, Kent Perrier wrote: And have it replicated across data centers so that when a DC pukes on itself (power outage, backhoe incident, act of God, Godzilla vs. Mothra) its No Big Deal(TM) to business as usual. I think the technology behind products like Data Domain is the way to go. With RTOs decreasing you don't have the time to pull the data off of tape. We have a small DDR (3.25 TB of usable space) where I work, and with our workload we are storing 16TiB of raw data in less than 1 TiB of disk. Add the flexibility for replication and rapid restore on top of that then the writing is on the wall for the use of tape for anything other than an archive tier. Kent I'd have to agree here. VTL is much faster than tape and lower TCO. We've run a pair of DD-510's (mainframe) and a pair of DD-530's (*nix WinDoze) for several years now with great results. We're just now replacing the DD-530's with an Avamar solution, so we'll see how that goes. Heh, I didn't know there was a term for what I did years ago when our tape library died again. We just chucked a few drives in our CORAID AOE device, and told Bacula to use the filesystem, but no more than 10 gigs per file. This gave us a great way to Recycle tapes as we filled the drives up. 10gig was deemed about the biggest we wanted to use because even though it was disk, it was read as if it was tape, so it meant our data start shouldn't be more than 10gigs of reading away. Our beginning of month job spanned several tapes then. Just WOW that the industry is catching up to our 2008 solution. -- Steven Critchfield cri...@basesys.com javascript: -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug...@googlegroups.comjavascript: To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+...@googlegroups.com javascript: For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+...@googlegroups.com javascript:. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug...@googlegroups.comjavascript: To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+...@googlegroups.com javascript: For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+...@googlegroups.com javascript:. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Steven Critchfield cri...@basesys.com javascript: -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [nlug] 185 TB tape?
On Tuesday, May 13, 2014 12:08:04 PM UTC-5, Kent Perrier wrote: And have it replicated across data centers so that when a DC pukes on itself (power outage, backhoe incident, act of God, Godzilla vs. Mothra) its No Big Deal(TM) to business as usual. I think the technology behind products like Data Domain is the way to go. With RTOs decreasing you don't have the time to pull the data off of tape. We have a small DDR (3.25 TB of usable space) where I work, and with our workload we are storing 16TiB of raw data in less than 1 TiB of disk. Add the flexibility for replication and rapid restore on top of that then the writing is on the wall for the use of tape for anything other than an archive tier. Kent I'd have to agree here. VTL is much faster than tape and lower TCO. We've run a pair of DD-510's (mainframe) and a pair of DD-530's (*nix WinDoze) for several years now with great results. We're just now replacing the DD-530's with an Avamar solution, so we'll see how that goes. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [nlug] 185 TB tape?
- Original Message - On Tuesday, May 13, 2014 12:08:04 PM UTC-5, Kent Perrier wrote: And have it replicated across data centers so that when a DC pukes on itself (power outage, backhoe incident, act of God, Godzilla vs. Mothra) its No Big Deal(TM) to business as usual. I think the technology behind products like Data Domain is the way to go. With RTOs decreasing you don't have the time to pull the data off of tape. We have a small DDR (3.25 TB of usable space) where I work, and with our workload we are storing 16TiB of raw data in less than 1 TiB of disk. Add the flexibility for replication and rapid restore on top of that then the writing is on the wall for the use of tape for anything other than an archive tier. Kent I'd have to agree here. VTL is much faster than tape and lower TCO. We've run a pair of DD-510's (mainframe) and a pair of DD-530's (*nix WinDoze) for several years now with great results. We're just now replacing the DD-530's with an Avamar solution, so we'll see how that goes. Heh, I didn't know there was a term for what I did years ago when our tape library died again. We just chucked a few drives in our CORAID AOE device, and told Bacula to use the filesystem, but no more than 10 gigs per file. This gave us a great way to Recycle tapes as we filled the drives up. 10gig was deemed about the biggest we wanted to use because even though it was disk, it was read as if it was tape, so it meant our data start shouldn't be more than 10gigs of reading away. Our beginning of month job spanned several tapes then. Just WOW that the industry is catching up to our 2008 solution. -- Steven Critchfield cri...@basesys.com -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [nlug] 185 TB tape?
In-line compression, yes, built into the backup app. deduplication, yes, built into our filestorage. - Original Message - Your 2008 solution had in-line compression and deduplication? Just wondering. Data Domain (the company and product) was founded in 2001 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_Domain_%28corporation%29) On Wed, May 14, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Steven S. Critchfield cri...@basesys.comwrote: - Original Message - On Tuesday, May 13, 2014 12:08:04 PM UTC-5, Kent Perrier wrote: And have it replicated across data centers so that when a DC pukes on itself (power outage, backhoe incident, act of God, Godzilla vs. Mothra) its No Big Deal(TM) to business as usual. I think the technology behind products like Data Domain is the way to go. With RTOs decreasing you don't have the time to pull the data off of tape. We have a small DDR (3.25 TB of usable space) where I work, and with our workload we are storing 16TiB of raw data in less than 1 TiB of disk. Add the flexibility for replication and rapid restore on top of that then the writing is on the wall for the use of tape for anything other than an archive tier. Kent I'd have to agree here. VTL is much faster than tape and lower TCO. We've run a pair of DD-510's (mainframe) and a pair of DD-530's (*nix WinDoze) for several years now with great results. We're just now replacing the DD-530's with an Avamar solution, so we'll see how that goes. Heh, I didn't know there was a term for what I did years ago when our tape library died again. We just chucked a few drives in our CORAID AOE device, and told Bacula to use the filesystem, but no more than 10 gigs per file. This gave us a great way to Recycle tapes as we filled the drives up. 10gig was deemed about the biggest we wanted to use because even though it was disk, it was read as if it was tape, so it meant our data start shouldn't be more than 10gigs of reading away. Our beginning of month job spanned several tapes then. Just WOW that the industry is catching up to our 2008 solution. -- Steven Critchfield cri...@basesys.com -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Steven Critchfield cri...@basesys.com -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [nlug] 185 TB tape?
I too managed TSM systems for many years, and even with their Disaster Management function being implemented well, doing DR recovery with TSM is painful at best, but it can be done. Makes me kind of glad I am out of the game. But it does make me wonder what 'really big' guys do for true DR Management. Google and Facebook and the like are orders of magnitude larger than even most of the big oil and healthcare providers. Healthcare and banks/financial guys have HEPA (or banking equivalent) rules to implement too that adds more complexity to the works. Plus, since I left there has been a real data explosion in all those fields. I have worked in Oil/Gas Exploration Production, Gas transmission, and oil field drilling concerns, Healthcare, and banking, as well as smaller firms ... so these are the areas I have some familiarity with. Little backup companies, like Backblaze, Carbonite, etc have a few hundred T or so under management. But they keep it all on round brown and spinning from what I can tell. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [nlug] 185 TB tape?
Coincidentally on this topic - I'm still undecided on my July presentation, but I'm at OpenStack Summit right now and happen to be attending a lot of tracks on storage (including DR). If there is interest, I can present on what I'm picking up here. There are some pretty slick solutions using both block and object storage (and can be easily applied locally - not just for the big boys) - wesley On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:33 AM, Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote: I too managed TSM systems for many years, and even with their Disaster Management function being implemented well, doing DR recovery with TSM is painful at best, but it can be done. Makes me kind of glad I am out of the game. But it does make me wonder what 'really big' guys do for true DR Management. Google and Facebook and the like are orders of magnitude larger than even most of the big oil and healthcare providers. Healthcare and banks/financial guys have HEPA (or banking equivalent) rules to implement too that adds more complexity to the works. Plus, since I left there has been a real data explosion in all those fields. I have worked in Oil/Gas Exploration Production, Gas transmission, and oil field drilling concerns, Healthcare, and banking, as well as smaller firms ... so these are the areas I have some familiarity with. Little backup companies, like Backblaze, Carbonite, etc have a few hundred T or so under management. But they keep it all on round brown and spinning from what I can tell. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- http://www.wesleyduffeebraun.com http://www.ashevillephotobooth.com -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [nlug] 185 TB tape?
Makes me kind of glad I am out of the game. But it does make me wonder what 'really big' guys do for true DR Management. Google and Facebook and the like store files in triplicate and use bluray jukeboxes -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [nlug] 185 TB tape?
And have it replicated across data centers so that when a DC pukes on itself (power outage, backhoe incident, act of God, Godzilla vs. Mothra) its No Big Deal(TM) to business as usual. I think the technology behind products like Data Domain is the way to go. With RTOs decreasing you don't have the time to pull the data off of tape. We have a small DDR (3.25 TB of usable space) where I work, and with our workload we are storing 16TiB of raw data in less than 1 TiB of disk. Add the flexibility for replication and rapid restore on top of that then the writing is on the wall for the use of tape for anything other than an archive tier. Kent On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 11:31 AM, Sabuj Pattanayek sab...@gmail.com wrote: Makes me kind of glad I am out of the game. But it does make me wonder what 'really big' guys do for true DR Management. Google and Facebook and the like store files in triplicate and use bluray jukeboxes -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [nlug] 185 TB tape?
Tape! Bleh! On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Curt Lundgren verif...@gmail.com wrote: Sony claims a breakthrough: http://www.itworld.com/storage/416783/sony-develops-tape-tech-could-lead-185-tb-cartridges -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [nlug] 185 TB tape?
Its for recording what is going on in Washington. I am going to loan them my demagnetizer. Dave On Fri, 2014-05-02 at 11:32 -0500, Chris McQuistion wrote: Tape! Bleh! On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Curt Lundgren verif...@gmail.com wrote: Sony claims a breakthrough: http://www.itworld.com/storage/416783/sony-develops-tape-tech-could-lead-185-tb-cartridges -- -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [nlug] 185 TB tape?
Did I leave my punch cards at the last meeting? On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 1:03 PM, Jack Coats j...@coats.org wrote: Didn't see the size of the 'standard' for the cart they are going to use. LTO-7? Naw, I think LTO was designed to end at 6, but that was a few years ago when I was learning about LTO. The first 1T tape cart I saw was a 2 wide phillips like cassette (but about a foot long in the long dimension). It was a monster. In the '80 if I remember not-wrong :) The 'cartridge robot' was a thing we could walk into. It was at Amoco, and they kept 3D seismic data on them. Nothing for little data stuff like IT used. On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 11:29 AM, Curt Lundgren verif...@gmail.com wrote: Sony claims a breakthrough: http://www.itworld.com/storage/416783/sony-develops-tape-tech-could-lead-185-tb-cartridges -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- ... Jack Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart... Colossians 3:23 If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the precipitate - Henry J. Tillman Anyone who has never made a mistake, has never tried anything new. - Albert Einstein You don't manage people; you manage things. You lead people. - Admiral Grace Hopper, USN a nanosecond is the time it takes electrons to propigate 11.8 inches - - http://youtu.be/JEpsKnWZrJ8 Life is complex: it has a real part and an imaginary part. - Martin Terma -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [nlug] 185 TB tape?
On 05/02/2014 03:06 PM, Bill Woody wrote: Did I leave my punch cards at the last meeting? I'm sorry Bill. I believe I missed the announcement for the 150TB hard disks. So long as LTO cartridges were the same volume and more expensive than comparable hard drives (RDX), tapes became the dinosaur Bill describes. LTO drive $3000-$6000 and $60-$100 for a 6TB tape compared to a 6TB SATA hard disk for $300-$600. Obviously, a backup scheme requires more than one tape or more than one disk. BTW - 12TB on one spindle??? shudder So the viability of any new tape technology has to make the above economic dynamic work in its favor. Likewise, the time it takes to WRITE 150TB to the drive has to be within somebodies' backup window. The speed of light is a constant... Howard -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To post to this group, send email to nlug-talk@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/nlug-talk?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups NLUG group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nlug-talk+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
