Re: [Nmh-workers] Default setup broken on Debian?
I'm talking to Alexander off-list about this; suspect that the file-not- found stuff is browser opening pages in background, but doing so too slowly and so missing Nmh's tempfiles. I am 100% sure that is the problem ... but it just illustrates my point. What is appropriate for a mailcap entry (which is often used by monolithic GUI MUAs) isn't necessarily appropriate for nmh, and vice versa. At least not for the out of the box experience we were going for. Of course, what is one person's perfect configuration is another person's dytopian hellscape; I realize that we'll never have perfect agreement here. --Ken ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [Nmh-workers] Default setup broken on Debian?
I can understand that, but from what we've seen it looks like run-mailcap simply is non-functional with base nmh (Conrad said it didn't work; a lot of cases of file not found). hmm, as far as i'm aware debian's mime-support (and its run-mailcap component) is very well primed from the get-go, but that's between conrad, me and the other debian maintainers. I suspect the core problem is something that is providing mailcap semantics may not necessarily be suitable for nmh, especially with the changes made for 1.6 (we really are expecting programs to output stuff on stdout). It's my understanding that other RPMs of nmh run mhn.defaults.sh at package installation time to generate the right entries for mhn.defaults; that might be worth looking at. --Ken ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [Nmh-workers] Default setup broken on Debian?
I'm talking to Alexander off-list about this; suspect that the file-not- found stuff is browser opening pages in background, but doing so too slowly and so missing Nmh's tempfiles. Conrad ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [Nmh-workers] Default setup broken on Debian?
On Wed, 04 Mar 2015 00:42:44 -0500, Ken Hornstein writes: I can understand that, but from what we've seen it looks like run-mailcap simply is non-functional with base nmh (Conrad said it didn't work; a lot of cases of file not found). hmm, as far as i'm aware debian's mime-support (and its run-mailcap component) is very well primed from the get-go, but that's between conrad, me and the other debian maintainers. debian's exmh uses run-mailcap, which is the only thing we can depend on ... And I was actually under the impression that exmh used mailcap directly, yes, sorry, that was a typo - i meant nmh. (i'm maintaining both nmh and exmh and the brain must have suffered a small jolt...) anyway, i think this is resolved; i've briefly discussed this with conrad off-list and amended the mhn.defaults that debian's nmh ships (plus more visible documentation of what the differences between upstream and debian are). i've also asked conrad to prod me (well, whoever is the debian maintainer of something) a bit earlier in the future: it's a pity that he misliked the defaults for so long without a peep, and this could have been resolved much sooner. you guys naturally aren't in any way responsible for the (relatively small) mods that were needed to make nmh fit in with debian, and it's an integral part of being a debian maintainer to be the first point of contact when users experience problems with your packages. so here's my thanks to everybody on the list for not being offended when being bothered with debian-specific issues :-) regards az -- Alexander Zangerl + GPG Key 0xB963BD5F (or 0x42BD645D) + http://snafu.priv.at/ Competely pointless fact of the day: One of my rats is called Solaris, due to the fact it's fat and bloated. The other is called Perl. It's a nervous insane little animal. -- Ashley Penney signature.asc Description: Digital Signature ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [Nmh-workers] Default setup broken on Debian?
debian's exmh uses run-mailcap, which is the only thing we can depend on to be available. after all not everybody has (or wants) lynx installed, or libreoffice or insert mime handler of your personal choice which everybody else hates. i'd say the clean debianish solution for delegating mime types to specific apps would be to configure /etc/mailcap and/or /etc/mailcap.order, so that the run-mailcap mime handler learns of your preferences. I can understand that, but from what we've seen it looks like run-mailcap simply is non-functional with base nmh (Conrad said it didn't work; a lot of cases of file not found). And I was actually under the impression that exmh used mailcap directly, rather than the nmh profile entries. I don't think a generic mailcap entry will necessarily have the semantics that are expected from a nmh profile entry. --Ken ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [Nmh-workers] Default setup broken on Debian?
Hi Alexander, Thanks for taking an interest.. Alexander the only difference between upstream's mhn.defaults and the Alexander one shipped with debian's nmh are the 4+6 lines for mime Alexander types application/postscript, /msword, /pdf, image/* Alexander (upstream and too specific) vs the generic application/*, Alexander audio/*, image/*, video/*, message/* and text/* (debian). Yes, it's a small difference, but its effect is to completely defeat Nmh's specific goal to by default only display text parts that are not marked as attachments, and using a single pager. If you're reluctant to change Debian's default behaviour, perhaps it could be an install configuration choice to replicate official Nmh default behaviour? And w3m/lynx could be at least a recommends if it isn't already? Just to be clear, now that I understand what's going on, I'm fine. However, I'm a long term MH user, and my initial experience with Nmh 1.6 on Debian was shockingly far from expectation — sufficiently so to cause me to avoid migrating to wheezy for six months. 1.5 vs MIME wasn't great, but if you used 'show' and ignored the HTML you could still blast through hundreds of emails at a time; with 1.6 as configured that's just not possible. Just a suggestion from an otherwise happy user; feel free to ignore. — and thanks, in the mean time, for continuing to package Nmh for Debian! Conrad ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [Nmh-workers] Default setup broken on Debian?
On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 17:51:22 +, Conrad Hughes writes: Debian's version sends everything (although sometimes there's no-such-file, causing failures) to GUI helper applications, which feels like something of a regression vs 1.5 behaviour. debian's exmh uses run-mailcap, which is the only thing we can depend on to be available. after all not everybody has (or wants) lynx installed, or libreoffice or insert mime handler of your personal choice which everybody else hates. i'd say the clean debianish solution for delegating mime types to specific apps would be to configure /etc/mailcap and/or /etc/mailcap.order, so that the run-mailcap mime handler learns of your preferences. the nmh way would be to prime your mh_profile with your personal mhshow-mimetype/subtype entries for mhshow, and/or massaging /etc/mhn.defaults. the only difference between upstream's mhn.defaults and the one shipped with debian's nmh are the 4+6 lines for mime types application/postscript, /msword, /pdf, image/* (upstream and too specific) vs the generic application/*, audio/*, image/*, video/*, message/* and text/* (debian). i guess i might add a specific entry for text/plain to make show fall back to the default %l+moreproc, to divert/refine the generic text/* entry (which we need for text/richtext). regards az -- Alexander Zangerl + GPG Key 0xB963BD5F (or 0x42BD645D) + http://snafu.priv.at/ Buchen sollst du suchen, Bei den Eiben kannst du speiben. -- Gunkl signature.asc Description: Digital Signature ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [Nmh-workers] Default setup broken on Debian?
Ken MessageName is totally documented in mhl(1) Oops; I was looking in mh-format(5). Ken I can't speak for anyone else ... but at least for me, I've found that Ken the text parts are ones I want to see, and non-text parts? Yeah I'm curious about non-text options though. When I ssh in from my phone's terminal I kinda think something that can smoothly textify PDFs and docs and show 'em with no download latency might be fun. Experimented with jp2a for images just now, and, well, it works, but is unlikely to be useful all that often :) mhshow-show-image/jpeg: jp2a %F mhshow-show-image: convert %F jpg:- | jp2a - Conrad(mhshow.marker seems to only Conradchange the display of unshown parts??).. Ken Sigh. The code to do that went into nmh after the 1.6 release cycle Ken started. So, next release. Heh. I look forward to it :) Oh also — if I might offer a suggestion for the default use of 'w3m -dump', maybe consider adding in -o display_link_number=1 .. so that link URLs get listed at the end of emails? Thanks again for your help! Conrad ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
Re: [Nmh-workers] Default setup broken on Debian?
I'm having some trouble with the default setup of nmh 1.6-2 on Debian,
upgrading from 1.5-release-0.2 (i.e. switching from wheezy to jessie).
Where previously show'ing an email with HTML and text would bring up
something in a pager in my terminal window, I'm now getting a range of
behaviours, from invoking my browser on often-non-existent temp files
through to throwing up a series of new terminal windows.
That's ... interesting, because BEFORE 1.6 it certainly wouldn't do that
out of the box. Basically, before 1.6 it was pretty unusable by default
on HTML email. I cannot understand how it worked right for you without
a lot of specific customization.
This looks as if it's a bit of a recap of past topics, such as
What are and what should be the qualifications for a current nmh user
http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/nmh-workers/2014-05/msg00100.html
nmh not using w3n or elinks
http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/nmh-workers/2014-05/msg00176.html
From that (and a later) thread, we finally determined that Norm WAS in
fact running a HTML converter; he just didn't realize it.
Looking at several of the past threads on this, which seem to touch on
exactly the same issue, the one thing I can observe is that the Debian
/etc/nmh/mhn.defaults is very different to some that I see in the mail
archive. For example, the second thread above has the following for
mhshow-show-text/html:
charset=%{charset}; %p/usr/bin/lynx -child -dump -force-html
${charset:+--assume_charset $charset} %F
Right, that's what we distribute.
.. while I guess HTML is caught by the mhshow-show-text entry under
Debian:
run-mailcap --action=view 'text/%s:%F'
That ... looks like a Debian-ism. Our configuration process does not do
that.
.. invoking run-mailcap, it doesn't surprise me that Debian's sending
me off to my web browser, but this does seem contrary to the 1.6 release
highlight that Mhshow will by default only display text parts that are
not marked as attachments, and using a single pager.
Well, I believe that is an accurate statement IF you build from the tar
file that we distribute. We don't have control over how system packages are
built and configured.
I guess I should really be making that last comment to the Debian
package maintainer, but can anyone suggest some useful advice for me to
offer them?
That seems to be Alexander Zangerl, and I know he's on this list (last
time I checked).
.. big improvement, but where do I go for a canonical version? Has
anyone rigged this stuff up to use antiword, pdftotext, or even
image-to-ASCII conversions?
Well, first off ... what happens if you build from our source tar file?
That's pretty much as canonical as you can get. Any of those tools you
describe should be relatively straightforward to get working, as long as
they output their stuff on standard output.
--Ken
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Re: [Nmh-workers] Default setup broken on Debian?
Ken BEFORE 1.6 it certainly wouldn't do that out of the box. Er I think the key word there was that it'd bring up something in a pager. Not necessarily something useful, but it was less aggravating than throwing up a new window for every message part in the 100 emails I was skimming :-/ I had customised things a bit to work around that. [Debian] Ken That seems to be Alexander Zangerl, and I know he's on this list (last Ken time I checked). .. yeah, and I can see that the relevant patch was introduced in this bugfix: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=646842 Hmm. Let's not get sidetracked into why Debian is doing what it's doing then; it seems broken, but whatever. As a cheap alternative to a local build of the whole thing, I pulled down your git repo and ran mhn.defaults.sh from there, to create a personal mhn.defaults. That leaves me in a much improved situation, behaving as advertised; thanks a lot for the super fast response by the way. Building on my original question though, is there any kind of wiki or Nmh-specific FAQ for tips and tricks? For example, - I really like MessageName (undocumented?), which you can use to see message numbers now that mhshow doesn't show 'em by default (thanks for writing about that elsewhere!); - I'd be interested to see other people's recipes for rendering diverse formats as text; - and I'd also like to see past ideas for rewriting the message part headers so they stand out a bit more (mhshow.marker seems to only change the display of unshown parts??).. .. looks as if the old FAQ hasn't been updated recently enough to cover some of these. Conrad ___ Nmh-workers mailing list Nmh-workers@nongnu.org https://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/nmh-workers
