Re: Emacs: postponing messages

[David Bremner]

Brian Sniffen  writes:

> I just found this thread from June while looking to resume a draft saved
> from another program (dovecot) and which was given the 'draft' tag by
> synchronization from Maildir flags.  Mark, thanks!
>
> I *think* all I have to do to deal with other clients accessing the
> Maildir through IMAP is to remove 'Message-ID from message-deletable
> headers, because other clients may be watching for that---though this
> only matters if the draft is resumed and postponed again, rather than
> deleted.
>
> Does that sound right?
>
>   (when draft
>(notmuch-message-unquote-some-mml))
>
> One comment here: anyone using maildir flag synchronization will have
> items with tag:draft but no quoted MML.  To help them reasonably
> *discuss* quoted MML, even when working from a mix of notmuch and other
> MUAs, can this use a distinct tag?  For example, tag:quoted-mml?

I'm not sure if Mark saw this, as it wasn't connected to the original
thread.

d
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Re: Emacs: postponing messages

[Brian Sniffen]

I just found this thread from June while looking to resume a draft saved
from another program (dovecot) and which was given the 'draft' tag by
synchronization from Maildir flags.  Mark, thanks!

I *think* all I have to do to deal with other clients accessing the
Maildir through IMAP is to remove 'Message-ID from message-deletable
headers, because other clients may be watching for that---though this
only matters if the draft is resumed and postponed again, rather than
deleted.

Does that sound right?

  (when draft
   (notmuch-message-unquote-some-mml))

One comment here: anyone using maildir flag synchronization will have
items with tag:draft but no quoted MML.  To help them reasonably
*discuss* quoted MML, even when working from a mix of notmuch and other
MUAs, can this use a distinct tag?  For example, tag:quoted-mml?

Thanks,
Brian
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crypto and draft messages [was: Re: Emacs: postponing messages]

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

On Thu 2016-06-02 14:21:44 -0400, Mark Walters wrote:
> There was some discussion on irc yesterday about a better way of
> postponing message when using the emacs frontend. I think getting a
> moderately nice interface should be quite easy (see below) but there are
> some corner cases on what *should* happen that I would like to resolve
> before trying to implement anything.

one other corner case worth thinking about here (it can probably be
postponed until we have base cases handled, but i wanted to bring it up)
is how per-message cryptographic operations (mml-secure-*) interact with
drafts.

In particular, i think that any sort of message signing should *not*
happen during saving of a draft, but the intent to sign should be
preserved.  That is, we should save and restore the #secure tag when
saving a draft or restoring a draft, but the saved draft itself should
*not* be signed.

for encryption, i have a different (and arguably opposite) intuition.
if the sender has the ability to *decrypt* mails, i'd argue that saving
a draft should encrypt the draft, regardless of the draft's stated
intent to encrypt.

These cases matter because i know many people use tools like
offline-imap to sync their mail store with a remote mailserver.

if the remote mailserver can get a copy of the signed draft, it could
replay it (effectively making use of an unintentional signature).
Likewise, if the user doesn't think about encrypting a message until
they're they're ready to send it, then an intermediate/draft version of
the message might end up in cleartext on the remote server.

--dkg


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Re: Emacs: postponing messages

[Daniel Kahn Gillmor]

On Thu 2016-06-02 14:21:44 -0400, Mark Walters wrote:
> My broad idea for postpone is to take the partial message, use notmuch
> insert to put it in the database with a "postponed" tag, and then on
> resume fetch the raw message and go into notmuch-message-mode, and also
> either add a deleted tag to the resumed message, or better actually
> delete the resumed message. Finally, we would add postponed to the
> excluded tags list, so that postponed messages only show up when
> searched for.

I'd love to see this happen.  The terminology many other mail user
agents use for this workflow is often "draft" or "drafts" so we might do
well to adopt that term, instead of using "postpone", which i don't
think is as widely-used.

> An alternative would be to attach the attachments with the postponed
> message. This is probably doable by writing the message (as if being
> fcc'd) to notmuch insert, and then using the mime-to-mml function to
> reverse the process. The downside here is that now the attached file is
> not the current file in the filesystem when you send -- ie its different
> from the normal case.

I like this approach, and i don't think that the caveat you're
describing is a particuarly bad one, though it depends on how
mime-to-mml works.

I just tested it, and mime-to-mml actually produced something that was
not directly sendable in notmuch-message-mode, because it didn't include
the "--text follows this line--" break between headers and body :/  But
this is probably fixable ;)

However, mime-to-mml actually embedded the content of the included
sub-part upon reconstruction and the filename was only the leaf filename
(i'd included /home/dkg/tmp/test.txt, and in the reconstructed #part it
said filename="test.txt" nofile=yes)

Since this doesn't include the original path of the file (and it said
"nofile=yes"), then i don't think it's a problem.

One thing i should note is that if there's a message-id assigned during
saving of the draft, then we need to think carefully about how a draft
that gets saved multiple times gets indexed.  it'll have the same
message-id, which is good, but there will likely be multiple files
referencing it, each with different content.  ideally, there would only
be one copy indexed, and it would be the latest one.  Also, the
actually-sent mail should be indexed in preference over a previous
draft.

The above pieces would all be really great to have!  In addition, if
they were in place, it'd be good to have an variant notmuch-search view
that lists the recipients instead of the senders, so that i can do a
search for tag:draft and actually see who the messages were sent to,
instead of my own name (as the sender) on each item :)

--dkg


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Emacs: postponing messages

[Mark Walters]

Dear All

There was some discussion on irc yesterday about a better way of
postponing message when using the emacs frontend. I think getting a
moderately nice interface should be quite easy (see below) but there are
some corner cases on what *should* happen that I would like to resolve
before trying to implement anything.

My broad idea for postpone is to take the partial message, use notmuch
insert to put it in the database with a "postponed" tag, and then on
resume fetch the raw message and go into notmuch-message-mode, and also
either add a deleted tag to the resumed message, or better actually
delete the resumed message. Finally, we would add postponed to the
excluded tags list, so that postponed messages only show up when
searched for.

Now the main difficulty I see is what to do with attachments.

If we just leave the mml #part markers in the message then the file
might have disappeared by the time we resume (or could even be a
different file). This would be a particular problem if people attach
files that are in /tmp say.

Further the way rfc822 forwarding works (ie the default forwarding in
notmuch/emacs) is to put each attachment of the message that is being
forwarded into its own emacs buffer, and include these buffers via the
mml markers. These buffers would all disappear if the user restarts
emacs between postponing and resume.

An alternative would be to attach the attachments with the postponed
message. This is probably doable by writing the message (as if being
fcc'd) to notmuch insert, and then using the mime-to-mml function to
reverse the process. The downside here is that now the attached file is
not the current file in the filesystem when you send -- ie its different
from the normal case.

Any thoughts or comments very gratefully received!

Best wishes

Mark


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