[NSP] Re: German word - and strictly speaking off topic
According to German grammar, the 1. casus, Nominativ, undefined pluralis (any), is Bordune. 1. casus Nominativ defined pluralis (these) is Die Bordunen. Can you refer me to any authority you are quoting here? And what would the terminology be if you stuck to one language rather than a mixture of Latin, English and German/Scandinavian (nominativ)? Nominative plurals of *adjectives* not preceded by an article (indefinite (sic)) end in e while those preceded by the definite (sic) article (die = the) end in en. these is the demonstrative adjective in English, corresponding to the German diese). Bordun is not, however, an adjective. It's a noun, hence the above rule is irrelevant. Chirs Hartwig Den 24. apr. 2007 kl. 10.23 skrev [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hartvig Körner wrote: Theoretically, the plural form would be die Bordunen According to which theory? According to both Wildhagen and Harraps (the only German dictionaries I happen to have at hand), Brockhaus and bagpipe.de it's Bordune (except in the dative. All German plurals end in n in the dative.) at http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bordun we find Bordun defined as: 1) an organ stop, 2) the lowest pitched in a set of bells, and 3) einen während der gesamten Melodie oder signifikanter Teile eines Musikstücks ausgehaltenen Begleitklang gleicher Tonhöhe [An accompanying sound of constant pitch sustained throughout the entire melody or significant parts of a piece of music] (in other words, a drone) and last but not least: 4) umgangssprachlich auch die Bordunpfeifen und Bordunsaiten (siehe weiter unten). [colloquially also the drone pipes and drone strings (see below for further information)] So, if we want to be pedantic, Bordun refers to the droning phenomenon and the bit(s) of the instrument producing it is one Bordunpfeife or several Bordunpfeifen (the n here is the plural in all grammatical cases, not just the dative (German is complicated)). I suppose strictly speaking it's the same in English ; drone pipes produce the drone. So we call them drones for short. To further complicate matters, some nouns in German can, but need not, add an e in the dative singular - so we can find, at http:// www.mittelalter.de/shop/produktkatalog/ Sackpfeifen,Sackpfeifen_32_produktkatalog_liste.html , for example - mit 1 [einem] Bordune (dative after mit) [with one drone]. Very confusing, but correct. So, to sum up: It's one 'Bordun' (but can - but doesn't have to - be with, from, to etc. one 'Bordune') and more than one 'Bordune' (but *must* be with, from, to etc. more than one 'Bordunen'). And colloquially the word can be used to mean drone (hardware) No prizes for guessing what I've been doing for a living since 1974 ;-) HTH. chirs To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: German word
K=F6rner An example of a cybermangled dieresis. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: German word
A fascinating dialogue. But I wonder whether this should move on to being a private correspondance only? Francis On 25 Apr 2007, at 09:33, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: K=F6rner An example of a cybermangled dieresis. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: German word
There is an alternative in German: a curious onlooker, wondering which bits of the pipes did what, enquired whether the drones were the 'Auspuff', i.e. the exhaust (the part of a car N Americans call the silencer). To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: German word - and strictly speaking off topic
I thought it was an Irish drum :-( According to German grammar, the 1. casus, Nominativ, undefined pluralis (any), is Bordune. 1. casus Nominativ defined pluralis (these) is Die Bordunen. Can you refer me to any authority you are quoting here? And what would the terminology be if you stuck to one language rather than a mixture of Latin, English and German/Scandinavian (nominativ)? Nominative plurals of *adjectives* not preceded by an article (indefinite (sic)) end in e while those preceded by the definite (sic) article (die = the) end in en. these is the demonstrative adjective in English, corresponding to the German diese). Bordun is not, however, an adjective. It's a noun, hence the above rule is irrelevant. Chirs Hartwig Den 24. apr. 2007 kl. 10.23 skrev [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hartvig Körner wrote: Theoretically, the plural form would be die Bordunen According to which theory? According to both Wildhagen and Harraps (the only German dictionaries I happen to have at hand), Brockhaus and bagpipe.de it's Bordune (except in the dative. All German plurals end in n in the dative.) at http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bordun we find Bordun defined as: 1) an organ stop, 2) the lowest pitched in a set of bells, and 3) einen während der gesamten Melodie oder signifikanter Teile eines Musikstücks ausgehaltenen Begleitklang gleicher Tonhöhe [An accompanying sound of constant pitch sustained throughout the entire melody or significant parts of a piece of music] (in other words, a drone) and last but not least: 4) umgangssprachlich auch die Bordunpfeifen und Bordunsaiten (siehe weiter unten). [colloquially also the drone pipes and drone strings (see below for further information)] So, if we want to be pedantic, Bordun refers to the droning phenomenon and the bit(s) of the instrument producing it is one Bordunpfeife or several Bordunpfeifen (the n here is the plural in all grammatical cases, not just the dative (German is complicated)). I suppose strictly speaking it's the same in English ; drone pipes produce the drone. So we call them drones for short. To further complicate matters, some nouns in German can, but need not, add an e in the dative singular - so we can find, at http:// www.mittelalter.de/shop/produktkatalog/ Sackpfeifen,Sackpfeifen_32_produktkatalog_liste.html , for example - mit 1 [einem] Bordune (dative after mit) [with one drone]. Very confusing, but correct. So, to sum up: It's one 'Bordun' (but can - but doesn't have to - be with, from, to etc. one 'Bordune') and more than one 'Bordune' (but *must* be with, from, to etc. more than one 'Bordunen'). And colloquially the word can be used to mean drone (hardware) No prizes for guessing what I've been doing for a living since 1974 ;-) HTH. chirs To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Back onto topic
We could try discussing piping again maybe? The time we tried that about a year ago, war nearly broke out though John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Back onto topic
- Original Message - From: Anita Evans [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: nsp nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 1:24 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: Back onto topic Gibbons, John wrote: We could try discussing piping again maybe? The time we tried that about a year ago, war nearly broke out though oh no it didn't! Yes it did! They invaded Poland grin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
