[NSP] Cut and Dry Dolly
A good old tune, for sure, but what does the title mean? If a song, has anyone the words? Dolly an historical figure? The web is silent on her. I can find only (OED): cut and dried (also cut and dry): originally referring to herbs in the herbalists' shops, as contrasted with growing herbs; hence fig. ready-made and void of freshness and spontaneity; also, ready shaped according to a priori formal notions. (Usually of language, ideas, schemes or the like.) -- and 4 references, 1710--1887 -- Richard A Leach | Simply elegant since 1970: unix. The great little festival -- http://www.PennineSpringMusic.co.uk A Centre of Excellence for Domestic Information Technology Solutions 5344.9735,N,00201.2268,W,263.0 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
Snap! -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Ian Lawther Sent: 16 September 2009 17:14 To: Richard Leach Cc: Dartmouth Subject: [NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly Pure speculation but is there a chance that cut and dry herbs were woven into bunches like a corn dolly? Ian Richard Leach wrote: A good old tune, for sure, but what does the title mean? If a song, has anyone the words? Dolly an historical figure? The web is silent on her. I can find only (OED): cut and dried (also cut and dry): originally referring to herbs in the herbalists' shops, as contrasted with growing herbs; hence fig. ready-made and void of freshness and spontaneity; also, ready shaped according to a priori formal notions. (Usually of language, ideas, schemes or the like.) -- and 4 references, 1710--1887 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
On 16 Sep 2009 at 15:11, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: But no light on what the title meant - until someone turns up some song lyrics, we are probably left with guesswork as the best way of working out that one. Lyrics to a different tune: Fresh Aw cum frrae Sandgate Street Dolli, dolli. Maw best freends here to meet Dollia Dolli the dillen dol Dolli, dolli Dolli the dillen dol Dollia Who was Dolly the dillen doll? What was a dillen doll? Any theories? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
For some reason, lost in the labyrinths of time, I believed the cut and dry dolly to be a small peat stack, ready to be taken from the moor for burning. - Original Message - From: Richard Leach r...@richux.plus.com To: Dartmouth nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:07 PM Subject: [NSP] Cut and Dry Dolly A good old tune, for sure, but what does the title mean? If a song, has anyone the words? Dolly an historical figure? The web is silent on her. I can find only (OED): cut and dried (also cut and dry): originally referring to herbs in the herbalists' shops, as contrasted with growing herbs; hence fig. ready-made and void of freshness and spontaneity; also, ready shaped according to a priori formal notions. (Usually of language, ideas, schemes or the like.) -- and 4 references, 1710--1887 -- Richard A Leach | Simply elegant since 1970: unix. The great little festival -- http://www.PennineSpringMusic.co.uk A Centre of Excellence for Domestic Information Technology Solutions 5344.9735,N,00201.2268,W,263.0 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
On 16 Sep 2009 at 15:11, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: But no light on what the title meant - until someone turns up some song lyrics, we are probably left with guesswork as the best way of working out that one. Lyrics to a different tune: Fresh Aw cum frrae Sandgate Street Dolli, dolli. Maw best freends here to meet Dollia Dolli the dillen dol Dolli, dolli Dolli the dillen dol Dollia Who was Dolly the dillen doll? What was a dillen doll? Any theories? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
On 16 Sep 2009 at 15:11, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: But no light on what the title meant - until someone turns up some song lyrics, we are probably left with guesswork as the best way of working out that one. Lyrics to a different tune: Fresh Aw cum frrae Sandgate Street Dolli, dolli. Maw best freends here to meet Dollia Dolli the dillen dol Dolli, dolli Dolli the dillen dol Dollia Who was Dolly the dillen doll? What was a dillen doll? Any theories? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
Can anyone with access to an OED or a Northumbrian dialect dictionary check this possible meaning of 'dolly' = peat-stack? It would be plausible enough if 'dolly' used to hold this meaning. Though is 'a small peat stack, ready to be taken from the moor for burning' a likely topic for a popular song? Song lyrics, from either side of the Border, (fitting this tune and title, Barry!) would be the clincher - but if they existed, they are probably lost. Occasionally an alternative title will extend or complete a line of a lyric - eg 'All the night I lay with Jockey in my arms'. But here, no version of the title I've seen adds any more words than 'Cut and Dry, Dolly', unfortunately. If it is just a dummy phrase attached to a 'pure' dance tune, of course looking for a lyric is a waste of time... I can't even work out a plausible underlay of the title under the tune that fits, unlike 'All the night..' which fits its tune perfectly. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
On 16 Sep 2009, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: is 'a small peat stack, ready to be taken from the moor for burning' a likely topic for a popular song? It's possibly a likely title for a tune frequently played by someone not noted for the honesty of his waysdry peat would be a welcome sight after a long tramp, to make a fire. Never mind if it's not your peat! Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
Doll: a portion, large piece of anything, frequently dung Dolly: an old fashioned oil-lamp, a cruisie The Concise Scots Dictionary, Aberdeen U. Press, 1985 It's strangely reassuring that Cut and Dry Dolly is a mystery to so many people. -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of gibbonssoi...@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:50 PM To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly Can anyone with access to an OED or a Northumbrian dialect dictionary check this possible meaning of 'dolly' = peat-stack? It would be plausible enough if 'dolly' used to hold this meaning. Though is 'a small peat stack, ready to be taken from the moor for burning' a likely topic for a popular song? Song lyrics, from either side of the Border, (fitting this tune and title, Barry!) would be the clincher - but if they existed, they are probably lost. Occasionally an alternative title will extend or complete a line of a lyric - eg 'All the night I lay with Jockey in my arms'. But here, no version of the title I've seen adds any more words than 'Cut and Dry, Dolly', unfortunately. If it is just a dummy phrase attached to a 'pure' dance tune, of course looking for a lyric is a waste of time... I can't even work out a plausible underlay of the title under the tune that fits, unlike 'All the night..' which fits its tune perfectly. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Cut and Dry - underlay
Perhaps if we take the John Bell version (on FARNE) as the basic tune, the tag at the middle and end of the strain has the rhythm | qq c qq q...| this would fit ...|Cut and Dry Do-ol-ly ...| But you need to stretch the first syllable of Dolly across two notes. These 2 notes do tend to group together as I play them - how would a fiddler bow this bit of the tune? John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
A couple of other meanings in [1]http://www.dsl.ac.uk/ but none that seem to fit the Cut and Dry context convincingly. John -- References 1. http://www.dsl.ac.uk/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
