[NSP] Re: Proudlock's Hornpipe - OT: General M

2010-10-11 Thread Richard York
   Greetings,
   I expect to be corrected, but I was told that the story was that
   General M deliberately marched his men down slowly so that while he
   hadn't overtly changed sides yet, they would arrive, O dear what a pity
   chaps, too late to actually be there in time to prevent the Royalist
   revival he really wanted, then later became much more open about it.
   Hence the lovely stopped step of that Morris dance.
   From Claude M Simpson, The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music, 309
   (footnote to 'The Highlanders' March'):
   'A tune known variously as Monk's March, The Lord Monck's March and
   General Monk's March is found in The Dancing Master, 3d ed.
   supplements; Musicks Hand-maid, 1678; Musicks Recreation on the Viol,
   Lyra-way, 1682; volume two of The Dancing Master, 3d ed., 1718, and of
   Walsh's Compleat Country Dancing-Master, 1719. It does not fit the
   Euing ballad [Number 160, 'A Loyal Subjects Admonition, or a true Song
   of Brittains Civil Wars', which cites as an alternative tune 'General
   Moncks right march that was sounded before him from Scotland to
   London'] nor is it adapted to other ballads citing such tune titles as
   Monk's March, My Lord Monks March to London, General Monks March,
   General Monk hath advanc'd himself since he came from the Tower,
   Monk hath confounded, General Monk sail'd through the Gun-Fleet,
   General Monk was a nobleman. These tune titles, associated with
   ballads written in a variety of rhythmic and stanzaic patterns, have
   nothing in common save their reference to the first Duke of Albemarle.'
   Not sure if this helps, but there it is.
   By the way, where does My Faith it is an Oaken Staff fit into the
   history of all this? Mere coincidence or hymn writer working off a trad
   tune again? In Googling it I'm told that The Staff of Faith tune is a
   traditional Swiss melody.   
   Richard.
   On 11/10/2010 18:02, Ian Lawther wrote:

 Monck's March is an old tune now associated with morris dancing.
 General Monck was a parliamentarian in the civil war  largely
 involved in actions in Scotland. After the death of Oliver Cromwell
 and his replacement by Thomas Cromwell the Commonwealth started to
 collapse. Monck changed allegiances and and marched his regiment
 south from Coldstream in 1660 to restore the  monarchy.  His
 regiment later became the Coldstream Guards. How soon after these
 events the tune commemorating his march was written I don't know.
 Another tune called Lord Monck's March was in the 1657 edition of
 Playford and predated the famous march south so was probably simply
 named for him.
 I think the connections between the morris tune Monck's March and
 Proudlock's Hornpipe are pretty clear. Some years ago I played an
 adaptation of Proudlock's  on the half-longs in the Society
 competitions and have to say that when I made the arrangement I
 referred back to the morris tune (published in the key of A in the
 Morris Ring Handbook) as a starting point.
 Ian
 [1]rob@milecastle27.co.uk wrote:

 Morning - there are some Proudlocks in my village doing some family
 research and they've been aware of the tune for some time. I said
 I'd see what I could find ...
 Does anyone have any history, apocryphillia or references for the
 tune? Here's what I have so far...
  - The earliest printed reference I know of is the First NPS
 tunebook.
  - TOPIC have it played by Billy Ballentine on piccolo (1954 I
 think)
  - Various sources cross-reference it to the much older Monk's
 March. I can see the similarity but it's distinct. I'm also unaware
 of any reference to the Monk's March in older NSP related
 manuscripts
  - Often (mis)attributed to James Hill - Proudlock's Fancy is a
 different tune
  - Peter Kennedy recorded Jack Armstrong playing it in the 50s or
 60s where it was listed as Lewis Proudlock's Hornpipe. There's one
 compilation CD (Bagpipes of Britain  Ireland CD-SDL416) where the
 unattributed sleeve notes say:
 'Lewie was a famous local fiddler and fisherman who composed many
 tunes. He had no fixed job and moved around the county. His
 grand-daughter used to play with Jack.'
 If 'Lewie' wrote it then that would date it somewhere in the 70
 years preceding the recording... I've never come across any of the
 many tunes he composed.  The only Lewis Proudlock I could find in
 this period was born in Swinden (sic). He's listed in the 1851
 census as being 12 yrs old.
  - There was another Lewis Proudlock who was a Coquetdale Poet but
 he was a bit earlier (d.1816)
 cheers
 Rob
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   --

References

   1. mailto:rob@milecastle27.co.uk
   2. 

[NSP] Re: Proudlock's Hornpipe - earliest reference?

2010-10-11 Thread Matt Seattle
   See the Comments tab here -

   [1]http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/2734

   I am aware of the obvious similarity between Monk's and Proudlock's but
   for some reason I'm not quite convinced that one is derived from the
   other - it could be (unconscious) plagiarism, but it might be plain
   coincidence.

   YMMV

   --

References

   1. http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/2734


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