[NSP] Re: a key question for NSPipers
Great question, John. I'm sure there are people who get the extra keys because the look cool, but I'd hope that you'd not get the bigger chanter until you needed it. By that I mean that you need it to play the music you want to play. I started out with at 7-key set, and I'm glad I did. I think you are more likely to pay closer attention to the basics that way. But I kept setting aside music that I'd love to play if only I had more keys. By the time I was ready to move to a big chanter I had tunes waiting that called for a lot of keys! I ended up getting a 16-key set, but soon wished I'd gone for 17 keys. (I'm missing the low D#, which everyone told me I didn't need. Many people still tell me that, but I know what I want!) I just recently started working on a tune that uses the one key I'd never used, so I'm now vindicated in getting this chanter. When I got it, though, I had immediate buyer's remorse, wondering what I'd gotten myself into. --Rick On Dec 14, 2010, at 11:58 AM, John Dally wrote: When do you qualify to really need more keys? When I ordered my set a number of years ago I was convinced that the desire for 17 keys was really too much, so I ordered a thirteen key set instead. Now I find myself reaching for the two missing Bb's and C#'s. Is there such a thing as key-envy? Is it presumptuous or perhaps a failure of imagination to want more keys? How many keys is enough? I hear tell of twenty five key chanters now. Is this obsession a pipemaker's nightmare? cheers, John To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: a key question for NSPipers
Hello John Like everything else it is a compromise and also depends on what you want to play. Having said that a point will be reached when increased physical effort makes it harder to play sensitively. The first 17 key chanter I ever tried was a Clough - Picknell one which had belonged to Tom himself. It seemed to have almost half a snooker ball as the end-stop and weigh about a kilogram. I can't remember now who it was that let me try it but when I said I couldn't understand how Tom played such technically demanding music on it, it was explained that he used a 7 key chanter for most of his playing. That experience as a player with only a couple of years under my belt put me off trying another 17 key chanter until I decided to buy one of my own and get stuck in several years later. Within a year I had sold it on and bought a fiddle. The lack of fluency inherent in the keying makes it an very unsatisfying proposition for me. There are a couple of top notch pipers out there who consistently eschew the bottom (thumb-thumb) D - F# jumps in Bill Charlton's fancy. Often a bottom E is substituted giving a thumb-little finger flow. This problem is magnified on a 17 key chanter. There are some great pieces out there which demand these keys but they are less than 2% of the traditional repertoire (if we take the NPS tunes books as our guide). The other factor for me is one of tone. For me each added key is rather like adding weight to a fiddle tailpiece. An old wooden tailpiece with 4 heavy string adjusters can still give a pleasing sound but replace it with a modern lightweight design with integral adjusters and there is a noticeable improvement in, for want of a better phrase, I call the zing factor. As I say 17 key chanters can still sound great but my 5 favourite sounding chanters are all 7 key. 2 of them are Reid, the others are by Jack Armstrong, Mike Nelson and Philip Gruar. These also made 17 key (well at least 16 key) chanters which I've heard often but for zingy ring the 7s have it every time. In a nutshell the tune possibilities expand with the number of keys but the tonal/musical possibilities are greater with fewer keys. We pays our money and takes our choice. My advice is stick with 13 and get another instrument for other tunes. There's a very good chance it will be the instrument for which the tune was made in the first place. I know this is a very personal (and very unpopular) opinion but I can assure people that I am not alone in this. Cheers Anthony John Dally dir...@gmail.com Subject: [NSP] a key question for NSPipers To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 14 December, 2010, 16:58 When do you qualify to really need more keys? When I ordered my set a number of years ago I was convinced that the desire for 17 keys was really too much, so I ordered a thirteen key set instead. Now I find myself reaching for the two missing Bb's and C#'s. Is there such a thing as key-envy? Is it presumptuous or perhaps a failure of imagination to want more keys? How many keys is enough? I hear tell of twenty five key chanters now. Is this obsession a pipemaker's nightmare? cheers, John To get on or off this list see list information at [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: a key question for NSPipers
Hello John There might be a bit of confusion here. If you look at your high B key you'll see that it is just about at the very top of the chanter. Colin Ross managed to squeezee in a top C in place of a high Bb key but to get up to highC# would be impossible on the pipes as the hole would have to be cut into the reed staple itself. Ouch!! When a high C# comes in a tune I play middle C# and it's not too bad. Anthony --- On Tue, 14/12/10, John Dally dir...@gmail.com wrote: From: John Dally dir...@gmail.com Subject: [NSP] Re: a key question for NSPipers To: barr...@nspipes.co.uk, nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 14 December, 2010, 18:19 High and low C# are the ones I'm missing, as well as middle and low Bbs. The high C# might be better utilized as a high C. I'm probably exposing a gross ignorance by speculating which keys at the top of the chanter would be most useful. On 12/14/10, [1]barr...@nspipes.co.uk [2]barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: So, which 13 keys do you have? I can guess the two missing Bb's. On the other hand, missing two C#'s seems a little strange. Barry Quoting John Dally [3]dir...@gmail.com: When do you qualify to really need more keys? When I ordered my set a number of years ago I was convinced that the desire for 17 keys was really too much, so I ordered a thirteen key set instead. Now I find myself reaching for the two missing Bb's and C#'s. Is there such a thing as key-envy? Is it presumptuous or perhaps a failure of imagination to want more keys? How many keys is enough? I hear tell of twenty five key chanters now. Is this obsession a pipemaker's nightmare? cheers, John To get on or off this list see list information at [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Sent from my mobile device -- References 1. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=barr...@nspipes.co.uk 2. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=barr...@nspipes.co.uk 3. http://uk.mc5.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=dir...@gmail.com 4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: a key question for NSPipers
When a high C# comes in a tune I play middle C# and it's not too bad. Anthony Yes - City of Savannah is the one that first springs to mind, and the others I can think of are also not pipe tunes ... -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: a key question for NSPipers
Allow me to offer a totally different perspective on how to answer this question: Can you already play all the tunes you want to play with the chanter you have now? Are there no tunes that you've set aside for when you thought you had improved to the point where you could actually play them? Been through all the tunes in all the books you have? Don't misunderstand me--I thouroughly empathize with key lust. (I believe it's related to tune book lust.) But if you were asking for were answers to your root question, this might help. Alec -Original Message- From: John Dally dir...@gmail.com To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, Dec 14, 2010 9:01 am Subject: [NSP] a key question for NSPipers When do you qualify to really need more keys? When I ordered my set number of years ago I was convinced that the desire for 17 keys was eally too much, so I ordered a thirteen key set instead. Now I find yself reaching for the two missing Bb's and C#'s. Is there such a hing as key-envy? Is it presumptuous or perhaps a failure of magination to want more keys? How many keys is enough? I hear tell f twenty five key chanters now. Is this obsession a pipemaker's ightmare? heers, ohn To get on or off this list see list information at ttp://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --
