[NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle
Yes! -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2011 9:41 PM To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site Subject: [NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle Hello Kevin and all I noticed this in Kevin's email: ...so i closed the G hole with glue at one side until it was in tune. I'm wondering why you put the glue at one side rather than the top? Putting glue at the side will flatten the note by making the hole smaller but this would need more glue than putting it at the top of the hole which flattens it by a) slightly moving the hole down and b) making the hole smaller. This double whammy effect means less glue needed and (more often than not) bright tone preserved. Cheers Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle
Hello Kevin and all I noticed this in Kevin's email: ...so i closed the G hole with glue at one side until it was in tune. I'm wondering why you put the glue at one side rather than the top? Putting glue at the side will flatten the note by making the hole smaller but this would need more glue than putting it at the top of the hole which flattens it by a) slightly moving the hole down and b) making the hole smaller. This double whammy effect means less glue needed and (more often than not) bright tone preserved. Cheers Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle
Many thanks to all who wrote about my chanter being flat. i did what you advised and it has solved the problem. many thanks my chanter is now back in tune. best wishes kevin __ From: Dave Shaw d...@daveshaw.co.uk To: Kevin tilb...@yahoo.com; Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011, 10:16 Subject: [NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle Hi Kevin I would agree with the detail of Philips advice. When the octaves are in tune with each other and the fifth is flat then the reed is too long. You need to shorten the reed by half millimetre cuts(or less) until the intervals are correct. I use a cut throat type razor for this, on an endgrain hardwood block ( boxwood). A heavy craft knife would do on some firm surface, but you have to be careful as you can give yourself a nasty cut if the slightest slip occurs. Tuning the chanter to proper pitch is a whole different ballgame! Cheers, Dave Dave Shaw, Northumbrian and Scottish Smallpipes, Irish Pipes and SHAW Whistles www.daveshaw.co.uk - Original Message - From: Kevin [1]tilb...@yahoo.com To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site [2]nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 8:20 PM Subject: [NSP] flat chanter in the middle Hi to All, Can anyone advice me on the tuning of my chanter to the drones. The top G and the bottom G are in tune with the drones but the middle notes especially the D is a fraction out of tune, a little flat. is this rectified by moving the reed, if so which way? or opening the reed or closing it? the chanter has been in tune in the past but since changing the reed i find these problems, it is either the top/bottom notes are out or the middle notes are outany advice? thanks kevin -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:tilb...@yahoo.com 2. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle
Hi all, I agree with most of what has been said on this thread. I only restricted my advice to reed opening because I only wanted to mention clipping the reed when all else had been tried. It is after all irreversible, unless someone has found a way of gluing the bits back on? There was one other option I thought of which was to move the reed farther out of the chanter and play at a slightly higher pressure. If this cures the problem and the resulting pressure is too high, then the reed must be scraped to soften it, clipped to sharpen it c. c. However, right now I would like to know how Kevin got his chanter in tune as this will add to my knowledge. Barry Gibbons, John wrote: Kevin, What was the trouble in the end? Or more precisely, what remedy cured it? I'd trust the ones with hands on experimental knowledge rather than a mere theoretician, but theory is all I have! John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Kevin [tilb...@yahoo.com] Sent: 16 November 2011 08:57 To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site Subject: [NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle Many thanks to all who wrote about my chanter being flat. i did what you advised and it has solved the problem. many thanks my chanter is now back in tune. best wishes kevin __ From: Dave Shawd...@daveshaw.co.uk To: Kevintilb...@yahoo.com; Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, 15 November 2011, 10:16 Subject: [NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle Hi Kevin I would agree with the detail of Philips advice. When the octaves are in tune with each other and the fifth is flat then the reed is too long. You need to shorten the reed by half millimetre cuts(or less) until the intervals are correct. I use a cut throat type razor for this, on an endgrain hardwood block ( boxwood). A heavy craft knife would do on some firm surface, but you have to be careful as you can give yourself a nasty cut if the slightest slip occurs. Tuning the chanter to proper pitch is a whole different ballgame! Cheers, Dave Dave Shaw, Northumbrian and Scottish Smallpipes, Irish Pipes and SHAW Whistles www.daveshaw.co.uk - Original Message - From: Kevin[1]tilb...@yahoo.com To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site[2]nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 8:20 PM Subject: [NSP] flat chanter in the middle Hi to All, Can anyone advice me on the tuning of my chanter to the drones. The top G and the bottom G are in tune with the drones but the middle notes especially the D is a fraction out of tune, a little flat. is this rectified by moving the reed, if so which way? or opening the reed or closing it? the chanter has been in tune in the past but since changing the reed i find these problems, it is either the top/bottom notes are out or the middle notes are outany advice? thanks kevin -- To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:tilb...@yahoo.com 2. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle
Hi Kevin I would agree with the detail of Philips advice. When the octaves are in tune with each other and the fifth is flat then the reed is too long. You need to shorten the reed by half millimetre cuts(or less) until the intervals are correct. I use a cut throat type razor for this, on an endgrain hardwood block ( boxwood). A heavy craft knife would do on some firm surface, but you have to be careful as you can give yourself a nasty cut if the slightest slip occurs. Tuning the chanter to proper pitch is a whole different ballgame! Cheers, Dave Dave Shaw, Northumbrian and Scottish Smallpipes, Irish Pipes and SHAW Whistles www.daveshaw.co.uk - Original Message - From: Kevin tilb...@yahoo.com To: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, November 13, 2011 8:20 PM Subject: [NSP] flat chanter in the middle Hi to All, Can anyone advice me on the tuning of my chanter to the drones. The top G and the bottom G are in tune with the drones but the middle notes especially the D is a fraction out of tune, a little flat. is this rectified by moving the reed, if so which way? or opening the reed or closing it? the chanter has been in tune in the past but since changing the reed i find these problems, it is either the top/bottom notes are out or the middle notes are outany advice? thanks kevin -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle
Kevin, Your problem is most likely to be caused by the reed, though what John says about the length of the chanter is also true up to a point. A reed which is too weak, having been over-thinned especially at the bridle end, often produces false/flat notes in the middle of the chanter. Squeezing the reed more open can improve it, as Barry says, though of course makes it harder to blow, and with a basically weak reed the tone is still flabby - too lacking in high harmonics. I have quite frequently solved a problem like yours by clipping a VERY small bit off the end of the reed lips, using sharp end-clippers which I keep exclusively for reeds. This is a bit of a risky proceedure if you are not used to it, though. After clipping, you will probably need to thin just the tips VERY carefully by rubbing on fine abrasive paper, but be careful here, because you can easily thin too much and weaken it fatally again - so you have to clip a bit more off, and so on..! The best solution may just be to try a new reed which is bright sounding, but easy to blow, by being scraped evenly down to a fine tip, while still keeping just enough strength in the sides - though beware that a reed that is TOO strong in the sides will squeak more easily on the low notes. Philip From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: NSP group nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Monday, November 14, 2011 10:32 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle Kevin If it is a 7-key chanter, one possible cause is a reflection from the foot of the chanter, nearly in resonance with the upper part between the reed and the d hole. If so this resonance might be flat, dragging the d down a bit. Try pushing the cotton wool plug a few mm up the chanter? This helped with the first chanter I owned, though buying one that was made in tune is the way I finally cured that problem. As yours has been in tune before, tweaking the plug might help. John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of cwhill [cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk] Sent: 13 November 2011 22:14 To: NSP group Cc: NSP group Subject: [NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle I'm presuming that both g notes are actually sounding the proper note? I know you have said they are correct to the drones but those particular notes sound terrible if the drones are just a wee bit off. Do you have access to a tuner? I'd check that the g's on the chanter and drones are actually playing the same note and then check the middle notes to see if they are actually off (to the d/D drones). Even the best ears can have off days. Did you make or buy the reed? There's always a little work today on a bought reed to get it to suit your own chanter. Even home made ones can seem fine but do that. I forget how I fixed mine (a long time ago now) but I never got it spot on. When Colin Ross refettled my pipes and made me a new reed for them that problem vanished completely (before I had to just add a little pressure whenever I played a certain note). I'm afraid my unwarranted pride in making a (nearly) good reed took over from common sense :) Colin Hill On 13/11/2011 20:57, Barry Say wrote: Hi Kevin Do you know what pitch you are tuning at. Is it the same as before? Do you know what pressure you're playing at. Is it the same as before? You could have a reed which naturally gives a flatter d . My guess would be to open the reed a fraction and increase your playing pressure slightly. If that works but the playing pressure is too high, get back to me. On list will be fine. Barry - These things may solve your worst nightmare, or they may eat all of the cheese in your house. I make no guarantees. YMMV. Kevin wrote: Hi to All, Can anyone advice me on the tuning of my chanter to the drones. The top G and the bottom G are in tune with the drones but the middle notes especially the D is a fraction out of tune, a little flat. is this rectified by moving the reed, if so which way? or opening the reed or closing it? the chanter has been in tune in the past but since changing the reed i find these problems, it is either the top/bottom notes are out or the middle notes are outany advice? thanks kevin To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: flat chanter in the middle
Hi Kevin Do you know what pitch you are tuning at. Is it the same as before? Do you know what pressure you're playing at. Is it the same as before? You could have a reed which naturally gives a flatter d . My guess would be to open the reed a fraction and increase your playing pressure slightly. If that works but the playing pressure is too high, get back to me. On list will be fine. Barry - These things may solve your worst nightmare, or they may eat all of the cheese in your house. I make no guarantees. YMMV. Kevin wrote: Hi to All, Can anyone advice me on the tuning of my chanter to the drones. The top G and the bottom G are in tune with the drones but the middle notes especially the D is a fraction out of tune, a little flat. is this rectified by moving the reed, if so which way? or opening the reed or closing it? the chanter has been in tune in the past but since changing the reed i find these problems, it is either the top/bottom notes are out or the middle notes are outany advice? thanks kevin -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
