[NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen
Derek Lofthouse recently wrote: A question I forgot to ask though, are these 2 tunes played much? Hello Derek The tunes are popular in some circles and have been for some time. I remember Chuck Fleming leading us all with 'Peacock Followed ..' in the pub at Kathryn's (Tickell) 21st birthday party yelling do it again after each time through with words to the effect that it was a very enjoyable tune, the best Northumbrian one he'd come across (but not so politely put). We played it 10 or 12 times - it might have even been more. More recently I taught the same tune by ear to 150 youngsters at The Youth Summer School in Durham (Folkworks) with the words: Won't you come cuddle me, cuddy Now won't you come cuddle me reet Won't you come cuddle me, cuddy Just as ye did yesterday neet .. As for 'Small Coals..' it was also popular with the same age group and I did some 2nds for the nimble-fingered to do. I've got it as a pdf which I can send down the wires to anyone interested. Best wishes Anthony From: DEREK LOFTHOUSE dloftho...@shaw.ca To: Matt Seattle theborderpi...@googlemail.com Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, 15 August 2012, 14:14 Subject: [NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen Thanks Matt, Anthony, John and Kevin for your thoughts on these tunes. I will try the ideas you guys have suggested and I guess go with what works best for me. I guess it a matter of what you are used to, when i play border pipes I have no problem with 'discordant' drones, ex. playing in Bm with A drones, but i am used to just playing mainly G and D tunes (with the occassional venture into A and E)on the NSP with the appropriate drones. I'll and do more of it and maybe it will start sounding better to me. A question I forgot to ask though, are these 2 tunes played much? thanks again Derek - Original Message - From: Matt Seattle [1]theborderpi...@googlemail.com To: [2]nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 4:27:50 AM Subject: [NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Anthony Robb [1][3]anth...@robbpipes.com wrote: Here is what Forster Charlton, Colin Ross and Roland Wright put in the introduction to the second edition to the NPS 1st Tune Book: Small Coals and Little Money and Cuckold Come Out The Amrey are in an unusual mode for which the drones should be tuned to the notes A and E. Any drone which will not tune to either of these two notes is best shut off! Personally, I agree - others don't. Where I disagree is in saying they are in the same mode. Small Coals is a straightforward A minor tune, although with no 6th (F#) it's neither dorian nor aeolian mode. There is a case for tuning the drones to A for Small Coals if you insist on the drones being concordant with the home key or mode of the tune. I don't personally find that an issue, and neither do other bagpipe traditions, where drones are what drones were meant to be - fixed, so that tunes in different modes sound like they are in different modes. For me, Cuckold is a mixed-mode tune with alternating A minor and C major strains, where A drones have the effect of masking the C major sections because, over A drones, these also sound like A minor. So, if I were an NSP player, I'd leave the drones in G for this tune, which I am well aware is heresy. [2][4]http://youtu.be/71KwJ11O0fI -- References 1. mailto:[5]anth...@robbpipes.com 2. [6]http://youtu.be/71KwJ11O0fI To get on or off this list see list information at [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:theborderpi...@googlemail.com 2. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 3. mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com 4. http://youtu.be/71KwJ11O0fI 5. mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com 6. http://youtu.be/71KwJ11O0fI 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen
Again, thanks all for the advice. I tried all 3 tunes with both Gg and Aa drones, both set ups worked okay. I think i prefered the Gg sound though. Basically it is the border pipe set up, a tone lower. I suspect i better be able to play all 3 tunes by october though. Derek -- From: Julia Say julia@nspipes.co.uk Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012 2:32 PM To: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen On 15 Aug 2012, Matt Seattle wrote: And neither does playing Cuckold or Peacock on NSP against A drones sound nasty, but it does miss a lot of the musical effect of these tunes, the contrasting minor/major strains Coincidentally (yes, really) I spent part of this afternoon playing Peacock followed the Hen with Colin R. We tried both G and A drones, both with and without the dominant d or e harmony running. We also tried playing the only f# (in the B part) as a natural, to test if it was To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen
On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Anthony Robb [1]anth...@robbpipes.com wrote: Here is what Forster Charlton, Colin Ross and Roland Wright put in the introduction to the second edition to the NPS 1st Tune Book: Small Coals and Little Money and Cuckold Come Out The Amrey are in an unusual mode for which the drones should be tuned to the notes A and E. Any drone which will not tune to either of these two notes is best shut off! Personally, I agree - others don't. Where I disagree is in saying they are in the same mode. Small Coals is a straightforward A minor tune, although with no 6th (F#) it's neither dorian nor aeolian mode. There is a case for tuning the drones to A for Small Coals if you insist on the drones being concordant with the home key or mode of the tune. I don't personally find that an issue, and neither do other bagpipe traditions, where drones are what drones were meant to be - fixed, so that tunes in different modes sound like they are in different modes. For me, Cuckold is a mixed-mode tune with alternating A minor and C major strains, where A drones have the effect of masking the C major sections because, over A drones, these also sound like A minor. So, if I were an NSP player, I'd leave the drones in G for this tune, which I am well aware is heresy. [2]http://youtu.be/71KwJ11O0fI -- References 1. mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com 2. http://youtu.be/71KwJ11O0fI To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen
On Border pipes, nominally a tone higher, the drones are fixed, in A; they have no bead holes. Cuckold, or the Peacock followed the Hen, swap around between B minor and D major above the A harmony of the drone. This corresponds to playing them in Aminor/Cmajor against G drones on NSP. It works, and certainly doesn't sound nasty, which is the only sound argument against any musical idea. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Seattle Sent: 15 August 2012 11:28 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen On Wed, Aug 15, 2012 at 12:26 AM, Anthony Robb [1]anth...@robbpipes.com wrote: Here is what Forster Charlton, Colin Ross and Roland Wright put in the introduction to the second edition to the NPS 1st Tune Book: Small Coals and Little Money and Cuckold Come Out The Amrey are in an unusual mode for which the drones should be tuned to the notes A and E. Any drone which will not tune to either of these two notes is best shut off! Personally, I agree - others don't. Where I disagree is in saying they are in the same mode. Small Coals is a straightforward A minor tune, although with no 6th (F#) it's neither dorian nor aeolian mode. There is a case for tuning the drones to A for Small Coals if you insist on the drones being concordant with the home key or mode of the tune. I don't personally find that an issue, and neither do other bagpipe traditions, where drones are what drones were meant to be - fixed, so that tunes in different modes sound like they are in different modes. For me, Cuckold is a mixed-mode tune with alternating A minor and C major strains, where A drones have the effect of masking the C major sections because, over A drones, these also sound like A minor. So, if I were an NSP player, I'd leave the drones in G for this tune, which I am well aware is heresy. [2]http://youtu.be/71KwJ11O0fI -- References 1. mailto:anth...@robbpipes.com 2. http://youtu.be/71KwJ11O0fI To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen
On 15 Aug 2012, Matt Seattle wrote: And neither does playing Cuckold or Peacock on NSP against A drones sound nasty, but it does miss a lot of the musical effect of these tunes, the contrasting minor/major strains Coincidentally (yes, really) I spent part of this afternoon playing Peacock followed the Hen with Colin R. We tried both G and A drones, both with and without the dominant d or e harmony running. We also tried playing the only f# (in the B part) as a natural, to test if it was (to our ears) an A minor tune or an A Dorian. The conclusion we came to was that the drones work in either setting, though neither of us cared for the f natural version, and that the use of the dominant in the drone harmony was also optional. If I was performing either on my own I would use G drones (only) to mirror the usage on BP described by John G. Yes, Derek, both are played, though I can recall a request by someone ( not me or any of this list's contributors) for Small Coals causing consternation amongst the regulars because it was in A at an APS meeting in the early 90s. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen
To my ear the best thing about the Peacock with Gg drones is the prominent clashing f#, which resolves to a d; it is a strongly emphasised note in the 'C major' strains. BP would have a high g nat here instead but Peacock was stuck with f# on NSP and seems to have gloried in it. With Aa drones, f# dropping to d is just a d major chord - less exciting. John -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: small coals, and the peacock following the hen
Hello Derek' In a way you've answered your own question. G D drones would presumably have been used originally for these tunes as they probably precede the development of tuning beads but they don't sound right to many people. Here is what Forster Charlton, Colin Ross and Roland Wright put in the introduction to the second edition to the NPS 1st Tune Book: Small Coals and Little Money and Cuckold Come Out The Amrey are in an unusual mode for which the drones should be tuned to the notes A and E. Any drone which will not tune to either of these two notes is best shut off! Personally, I agree - others don't. As for speed it is probably an age thing but slower (allowing pulse to permeate through the tune butters my parsnip) these days (wasn't always so). I've put a clip here [1]http://http://www.robbpipes.com/Hesleyside-Spoots for people unfamiliar with this lovely pulse (again not all agree but it is the quintessential Northumbrian way of doing it). Two of the players are from 'The Shepherds' and were the best exponents of the real old country style of playing which cut across all instruments (including pipes) in their part of the county. Hope this helps Best wishes Anthony From: DEREK LOFTHOUSE dloftho...@shaw.ca To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, 14 August 2012, 14:36 Subject: [NSP] small coals, and the peacock following the hen I decided to play through the contents of the first 30 tunes book, just to see how many of them i actually knew, or could play. Fortunately i've played most of them. There are only 2 that i had never looked at, as the title suggests, Small coals and little money, and the Peacock followed the hen. Both of these appear to be what (I think) Matt calls bi-modal. switching between G and A minor, they sort of resolve to G, although the g drones (to me anyway) dont always seem to work. What drones do people use on these tunes? Also how fast should they be played. I've heard the Tickel version of small coals, but should it really be that fast? thanks in advance Derek To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://http//www.robbpipes.com/Hesleyside-Spoots 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
