Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion
I almost dare not ask, but are you going to say that it's because the science that's based on ice cores and rocks from 10,000+ years ago are nonsense because the earth was created on 23 October 4004 BC? On 3 May 2011 15:54, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: I’m also happy to talk politics (and explain why Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming is a complete crock of …). -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Marcus Chantry *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 2:02 PM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] Team for Albion I don’t think that you, I or anyone else that doesn’t believe has any right to expect to receive protection from someone/something that they don’t believe in. It’s like expecting to win the lottery without buying a ticket. As an atheist I’ve chosen to believe that I’m responsible for my own destiny and that it’s up to me to make decisions and face crisis without any guidance or assistance from any form of God or higher spirit. As such I don’t hope to benefit from the good fortune or otherwise of the people who do believe (except to benefit from public holidays). Maybe we should switch to politics? *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Millward *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 1:54 PM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion Some good points raised Marcus. I think there are plenty in Eastern Europe and South America. As for the others, you're saying that it's their bad luck to be born in the wrong country as God is spiteful and will only help believers? If that's the case, it's a risk practicing any religion isn't it? I mean suppose the Jehohah's Witnesses are the ones who are right. Jeremy is just making God even more mad by doing the wrong thing whereas I fly under the radar. Does the halo effect of me living in a Christian society/nation mean that I get the protection afforded to my Christian neighbour whilst also still being an atheist? I've got a sort of human sheild around me. On 3 May 2011 13:38, Marcus Chantry marcus.chan...@macquarie.com wrote: I’m happy to be corrected but I would suspect that the vast majority of those 2 million children would not be part of a Christian society/nation, so the God of which Jeremy speaks is unlikely to help them. That’s not to say that they don’t have their own ‘spiritual’ leader/icon that may or may not have let them down. *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Millward *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 1:18 PM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion Still, it seems a trifle unfair that two million children worldwide are forced to work as prostitutes and barely know anything else, when God could end it all with a wave of the wand. I'm sure even if they knew about Jesus, it would be of little comfort whilst they are getting beaten and sodomized. On 3 May 2011 13:00, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: I may get to a longer response… but probably not… The standard argument goes something like: If God is all powerful and all loving how come there is suffering in the world? The basic premise is flawed from my point of view. I’d respond something like: If God is all powerful and all loving and there is suffering in the world then God must have an important purpose involving suffering. As in all theological discussions Jesus needs be kept at the centre – and there he is as soon you raise the issue of suffering. God’s purposes in creation are centred on Jesus. Jesus’ own suffering, death and resurrection are the guarantee that, when he returns, death will have no power and suffering will be ended. Forever. There’s my briefest theodicy. I can trust God now and into the future because of what Jesus has done in the past. I’ll just duck down while you all start shooting… -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Millward *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 10:17 AM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion You'd better give us a run down on your views on theodicy then Jeremy. I don't think most of us get it. On 3 May 2011 09:53, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: Your lack of experience in these matters is getting the best of you Rog. You should experiment more. I am convinced that it is very effective (in important matters!). -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Rog Reet *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 7:27 AM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] Team for Albion If you blokes had spoken to wiser heads on this list you’d have
Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion
Please go on. What about the dinosaurs? On 3 May 2011 17:51, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: Damn – I thought it was June. -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Millward *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 4:53 PM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion I almost dare not ask, but are you going to say that it's because the science that's based on ice cores and rocks from 10,000+ years ago are nonsense because the earth was created on 23 October 4004 BC? On 3 May 2011 15:54, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: I’m also happy to talk politics (and explain why Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming is a complete crock of …). -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Marcus Chantry *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 2:02 PM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] Team for Albion I don’t think that you, I or anyone else that doesn’t believe has any right to expect to receive protection from someone/something that they don’t believe in. It’s like expecting to win the lottery without buying a ticket. As an atheist I’ve chosen to believe that I’m responsible for my own destiny and that it’s up to me to make decisions and face crisis without any guidance or assistance from any form of God or higher spirit. As such I don’t hope to benefit from the good fortune or otherwise of the people who do believe (except to benefit from public holidays). Maybe we should switch to politics? *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Millward *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 1:54 PM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion Some good points raised Marcus. I think there are plenty in Eastern Europe and South America. As for the others, you're saying that it's their bad luck to be born in the wrong country as God is spiteful and will only help believers? If that's the case, it's a risk practicing any religion isn't it? I mean suppose the Jehohah's Witnesses are the ones who are right. Jeremy is just making God even more mad by doing the wrong thing whereas I fly under the radar. Does the halo effect of me living in a Christian society/nation mean that I get the protection afforded to my Christian neighbour whilst also still being an atheist? I've got a sort of human sheild around me. On 3 May 2011 13:38, Marcus Chantry marcus.chan...@macquarie.com wrote: I’m happy to be corrected but I would suspect that the vast majority of those 2 million children would not be part of a Christian society/nation, so the God of which Jeremy speaks is unlikely to help them. That’s not to say that they don’t have their own ‘spiritual’ leader/icon that may or may not have let them down. *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Millward *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 1:18 PM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion Still, it seems a trifle unfair that two million children worldwide are forced to work as prostitutes and barely know anything else, when God could end it all with a wave of the wand. I'm sure even if they knew about Jesus, it would be of little comfort whilst they are getting beaten and sodomized. On 3 May 2011 13:00, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: I may get to a longer response… but probably not… The standard argument goes something like: If God is all powerful and all loving how come there is suffering in the world? The basic premise is flawed from my point of view. I’d respond something like: If God is all powerful and all loving and there is suffering in the world then God must have an important purpose involving suffering. As in all theological discussions Jesus needs be kept at the centre – and there he is as soon you raise the issue of suffering. God’s purposes in creation are centred on Jesus. Jesus’ own suffering, death and resurrection are the guarantee that, when he returns, death will have no power and suffering will be ended. Forever. There’s my briefest theodicy. I can trust God now and into the future because of what Jesus has done in the past. I’ll just duck down while you all start shooting… -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Millward *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 10:17 AM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion You'd better give us a run down on your views on theodicy then Jeremy. I don't think most of us get it. On 3 May 2011 09:53, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: Your lack of experience in these matters is getting the best of you Rog. You should
Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion
The promise of eternal paradise in exchange for defending a religion is the cultural evolutionary equivalent of big teeth or having lots of babies. Those will be the religions that prosper. If I invented a religion I'd really go to town on what awaits people who do a good job in spreading the word or killing infidels. On 4 May 2011 09:48, Rog Reet rognr...@exemail.com.au wrote: Could be white raisins, could be a chilled raisin drink. Sure to be sects following both scenarios and been engaged in a ferocious fight over who’s right for the past 1400 years. *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Tonks *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 May 2011 9:10 AM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] Team for Albion Don’t be surprised if Rog finds himself ‘physically compromised’ if he keeps up this kind of dangerous talk. Haven’t you heard of Salmon Rushdie? Thanks Rog – I hadn’t heard that they were ‘white’. I was familiar with the ‘raisins’ part. -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Rog Reet *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 May 2011 9:01 AM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] Team for Albion The “wagonload of virgins” is a mistranslation according to some. Read in a Francis Wheen book that it was instead “white raisins”, another source says they’re angels. Don’t know if you’re allowed to root them, the angels, or even if they’ve got the equipment for a root. If they have and you can root them could they all fit on the head of a pin while you’re at it? *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Millward *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 May 2011 8:31 AM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion The problem here is that we see him as evil and needing to be punished, but a billion people believe he is a martyr and will go straight to paradise to nail a wagonload of virgins. (Pity the poor virgins) I presume the statement about him being unarmed, which suggests he could have been taken alive, is to make sure that he didn't die in jihad and so aid his martyr status. On 3 May 2011 22:16, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: Elation re the end of OBL betrays our intrinsic conviction: justice is good. A God who doesn't punish all evil cannot ultimately be trusted. Top of Form Including our own evil. So elation at the judgment of others must be tempered with fearful awe that we ourselves are spared. Bottom of Form -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Rog Reet *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 5:20 PM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] Team for Albion Bloody hell Jeremy, that has me more confused than the weirdest of Mick’s subs. *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Jeremy Tonks *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 3:53 PM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] Team for Albion My problem is that there is only one God. He is the creator of everything and everyone. No one misses out and no one gets special favours. God is not angry with Muslims for not being Christians just as he is not giving Marcus special favours for living in a Christian country J The issue becomes something like: Does God as the maker of the universe have the right to make the rules? The rules are simple. Trust God absolutely as the giver of life and light… or die in the dark. That’s where my own personal problems become apparent. I haven’t trusted God absolutely so I deserve to die in the dark. God, knowing what human beings are (he made us) and being eternally Father and Redeemer, sends his Son into the world. The Son becomes the man Jesus who suffers what we deserve (actually suffers because we have rebelled against our creator). If we trust Jesus as Saviour AND as Lord – the one we actually follow, then we become sons of the Father (that means having all the rights of the sons of the king forever). God is angry with those who seek to put themselves in the place that is his alone. Jesus takes that anger upon himself. Those who trust Jesus actually die (by faith) so that the penalty has already been exacted (dead people can’t die). While ever I trust Jesus I don’t have to worry about all the bad stuff that I’ve done (and there is some there don’t worry about that!). There is no one who is perfect. No one who deserves to be right with God (except Jesus who gives that ‘right’ness to us as a gift). Just going to duck for a while again… -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Marcus Chantry *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 2:02 PM *To:*
[NSWolves] sorry to interrupt...
but did anyone notice Hammill got named in the England U21s ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13273721.stm -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
Re: [NSWolves] sorry to interrupt...
Let's hope it doesn't go to his head like it did with Jarvis On 4 May 2011 11:21, mark worrall markworr...@gmail.com wrote: but did anyone notice Hammill got named in the England U21s ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13273721.stm -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked. -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
RE: [NSWolves] sorry to interrupt...[sec=unclassified]
No, lets get back to politics and religionOsama on the left wing, Usama on the rightdeadly combination. Hamill for PM From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Millward Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2011 11:24 To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [NSWolves] sorry to interrupt... Let's hope it doesn't go to his head like it did with Jarvis On 4 May 2011 11:21, mark worrall markworr...@gmail.com wrote: but did anyone notice Hammill got named in the England U21s ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13273721.stm -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked. -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked. -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
Re: [NSWolves] sorry to interrupt...[sec=unclassified]
If you were going to pick a team of religious nutters you want David Koresh in it. Oustanding defender. Didn't let anything in for 51 days. On 4 May 2011 11:30, Morris, Lee SGT lee.mor...@defence.gov.au wrote: No, lets get back to politics and religionOsama on the left wing, Usama on the rightdeadly combination. Hamill for PM -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Millward *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 May 2011 11:24 *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] sorry to interrupt... Let's hope it doesn't go to his head like it did with Jarvis On 4 May 2011 11:21, mark worrall markworr...@gmail.com wrote: but did anyone notice Hammill got named in the England U21s ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13273721.stm -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked. -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked. -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked. -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
RE: [NSWolves] sorry to interrupt...[sec=unclassified]
That's not surprising - it was the off season. _ From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Millward Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2011 12:36 PM To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [NSWolves] sorry to interrupt...[sec=unclassified] If you were going to pick a team of religious nutters you want David Koresh in it. Oustanding defender. Didn't let anything in for 51 days. On 4 May 2011 11:30, Morris, Lee SGT lee.mor...@defence.gov.au wrote: No, lets get back to politics and religionOsama on the left wing, Usama on the rightdeadly combination. Hamill for PM _ From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Millward Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2011 11:24 To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [NSWolves] sorry to interrupt... Let's hope it doesn't go to his head like it did with Jarvis On 4 May 2011 11:21, mark worrall markworr...@gmail.com wrote: but did anyone notice Hammill got named in the England U21s ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/13273721.stm -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked. -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked. -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked. -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked. -- Q: If you could change one thing about Wolves history, what would it be? A That Peter Knowles was on the bog when the door was knocked.
RE: [NSWolves] Team for Albion
At least you're being logical Rog. I think you have a 50/50 choice logically. Either there is one God and one only or there is no God. My problem with your summary here of there being 3 religions following one God is that I think you actually have 3 religions following 3 gods. I'm about to get even more esoteric. There are three monotheistic world religions. Well I actually disagree with that. There are two monotheistic religions - Islam and Judaism. Christianity is on its own as a Trinitarian religion. That is one God who has revealed himself as three distinct persons. Can it get more confusing than that? BUT you ask, Why didn't this god thing yell it's message in everybody's ear and then send them a confirmation telegram?' That's exactly what I believe he did do/has done. But of course that then rocks the other boats. We human beings are unbelievable complex - capable of unimaginable brilliance and glory and at exactly the same time capable of unspeakable evil and horror. I cite any war that you care to name. The Christian worldview puts forward that God has made everyone and everything but that human beings don't want a God - I'd rather fill that role myself thank you very much - and so we have to attack him. A direct attack on God is a very low percentage play and so we attack his image instead (each other). That helps me to understand 6 million murdered directly and 50 million in total. It's not God's fault - it's mine because I'm part of the problem. _ From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rog Reet Sent: Wednesday, 4 May 2011 9:20 AM To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [NSWolves] Team for Albion Why are these god things so shitehouse at getting their message over? We've got three major religions all following the same god. They're split into god knows how many sub-sects, each following a different interpretation of their holy books. Now Hitler was sent as a messenger, was this via a virgin birth as well? Why didn't this god thing yell it's message in everybody's ear and then send them a confirmation telegram? Instead we have 6 million murdered directly and over 50 million killed in total. From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of mark worrall Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011 1:42 PM To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion Tend to agree Jeremy that 'God must have an important purpose involving suffering', especially if you take it in a greater context, i.e we don't just have one life. From a lot of the texts I've read, it's all about choosing Love over Fear. Whether it be the person causing the suffering, or those on the receiving end, in that particular life. I once read an interesting discussion on why Hitler was a messenger, in that he was sent here to show how evil people can be, choosing to cause suffering to others (in the masses) while bound by their own Fears, and inspiring/challenging the rest of us to choose to reject it. Have you read 'Conversations with God' trilogy ? The only book(s) I've read that really try to answer all the questions the rest avoid (btw: in it God describes religions as 'fear based theologies used by a minority to control the masses'). On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: I may get to a longer response. but probably not. The standard argument goes something like: If God is all powerful and all loving how come there is suffering in the world? The basic premise is flawed from my point of view. I'd respond something like: If God is all powerful and all loving and there is suffering in the world then God must have an important purpose involving suffering. As in all theological discussions Jesus needs be kept at the centre - and there he is as soon you raise the issue of suffering. God's purposes in creation are centred on Jesus. Jesus' own suffering, death and resurrection are the guarantee that, when he returns, death will have no power and suffering will be ended. Forever. There's my briefest theodicy. I can trust God now and into the future because of what Jesus has done in the past. I'll just duck down while you all start shooting. _ From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Steven Millward Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011 10:17 AM To: nswolves@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion You'd better give us a run down on your views on theodicy then Jeremy. I don't think most of us get it. On 3 May 2011 09:53, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: Your lack of experience in these matters is getting the best of you Rog. You should experiment more. I am convinced that it is very effective (in important matters!). _ From: nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Rog Reet Sent: Tuesday, 3 May 2011 7:27 AM To:
Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion
You say that there is only one god, but in ancient Greece, Rome and Egypt, there were many gods, and anyone that said otherwise would have been considered a fool. When Akenhaten died in Egypt, and creating the first monotheistic religion his ideas were erased from history. On 4 May 2011 13:12, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: At least you’re being logical Rog. I think you have a 50/50 choice logically. Either there is one God and one only or there is no God. My problem with your summary here of there being 3 religions following one God is that I think you actually have 3 religions following 3 gods. I’m about to get even more esoteric. There are three monotheistic world religions… Well I actually disagree with that. There are two monotheistic religions – Islam and Judaism. Christianity is on its own as a Trinitarian religion. That is one God who has revealed himself as three distinct persons. Can it get more confusing than that? BUT you ask, “ Why didn’t this god thing yell it’s message in everybody’s ear and then send them a confirmation telegram?’ That’s exactly what I believe he did do/has done. But of course that then rocks the other boats. We human beings are unbelievable complex – capable of unimaginable brilliance and glory and at exactly the same time capable of unspeakable evil and horror. I cite any war that you care to name. The Christian worldview puts forward that God has made everyone and everything but that human beings don’t want a God – I’d rather fill that role myself thank you very much – and so we have to attack him. A direct attack on God is a very low percentage play and so we attack his image instead (each other). That helps me to understand 6 million murdered directly and 50 million in total. It’s not God’s fault – it’s mine because I’m part of the problem. -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Rog Reet *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 May 2011 9:20 AM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] Team for Albion Why are these god things so shitehouse at getting their message over? We’ve got three major religions all following the same god. They’re split into god knows how many sub-sects, each following a different interpretation of their holy books. Now Hitler was sent as a messenger, was this via a virgin birth as well? Why didn’t this god thing yell it’s message in everybody’s ear and then send them a confirmation telegram? Instead we have 6 million murdered directly and over 50 million killed in total. *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *mark worrall *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 1:42 PM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion Tend to agree Jeremy that 'God must have an important purpose involving suffering', especially if you take it in a greater context, i.e we don't just have one life. From a lot of the texts I've read, it's all about choosing Love over Fear. Whether it be the person causing the suffering, or those on the receiving end, in that particular life. I once read an interesting discussion on why Hitler was a messenger, in that he was sent here to show how evil people can be, choosing to cause suffering to others (in the masses) while bound by their own Fears, and inspiring/challenging the rest of us to choose to reject it. Have you read 'Conversations with God' trilogy ? The only book(s) I've read that really try to answer all the questions the rest avoid (btw: in it God describes religions as 'fear based theologies used by a minority to control the masses'). On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: I may get to a longer response… but probably not… The standard argument goes something like: If God is all powerful and all loving how come there is suffering in the world? The basic premise is flawed from my point of view. I’d respond something like: If God is all powerful and all loving and there is suffering in the world then God must have an important purpose involving suffering. As in all theological discussions Jesus needs be kept at the centre – and there he is as soon you raise the issue of suffering. God’s purposes in creation are centred on Jesus. Jesus’ own suffering, death and resurrection are the guarantee that, when he returns, death will have no power and suffering will be ended. Forever. There’s my briefest theodicy. I can trust God now and into the future because of what Jesus has done in the past. I’ll just duck down while you all start shooting… -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven Millward *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 10:17 AM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion You'd better give
Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion
Theres only one God. Religions are the creation of humans, usually a small minority to control or repress the majority to fit their own ego-based viewpoints. It doesn't matter whether you are religious or not. All that matter is how you treat others while you are here. Much better to face our maker with a track record of thinking of others and not religious, than having been selfish and ego based but religious. On Wed, May 4, 2011 at 1:12 PM, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: At least you’re being logical Rog. I think you have a 50/50 choice logically. Either there is one God and one only or there is no God. My problem with your summary here of there being 3 religions following one God is that I think you actually have 3 religions following 3 gods. I’m about to get even more esoteric. There are three monotheistic world religions… Well I actually disagree with that. There are two monotheistic religions – Islam and Judaism. Christianity is on its own as a Trinitarian religion. That is one God who has revealed himself as three distinct persons. Can it get more confusing than that? BUT you ask, “ Why didn’t this god thing yell it’s message in everybody’s ear and then send them a confirmation telegram?’ That’s exactly what I believe he did do/has done. But of course that then rocks the other boats. We human beings are unbelievable complex – capable of unimaginable brilliance and glory and at exactly the same time capable of unspeakable evil and horror. I cite any war that you care to name. The Christian worldview puts forward that God has made everyone and everything but that human beings don’t want a God – I’d rather fill that role myself thank you very much – and so we have to attack him. A direct attack on God is a very low percentage play and so we attack his image instead (each other). That helps me to understand 6 million murdered directly and 50 million in total. It’s not God’s fault – it’s mine because I’m part of the problem. -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Rog Reet *Sent:* Wednesday, 4 May 2011 9:20 AM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* RE: [NSWolves] Team for Albion Why are these god things so shitehouse at getting their message over? We’ve got three major religions all following the same god. They’re split into god knows how many sub-sects, each following a different interpretation of their holy books. Now Hitler was sent as a messenger, was this via a virgin birth as well? Why didn’t this god thing yell it’s message in everybody’s ear and then send them a confirmation telegram? Instead we have 6 million murdered directly and over 50 million killed in total. *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *mark worrall *Sent:* Tuesday, 3 May 2011 1:42 PM *To:* nswolves@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [NSWolves] Team for Albion Tend to agree Jeremy that 'God must have an important purpose involving suffering', especially if you take it in a greater context, i.e we don't just have one life. From a lot of the texts I've read, it's all about choosing Love over Fear. Whether it be the person causing the suffering, or those on the receiving end, in that particular life. I once read an interesting discussion on why Hitler was a messenger, in that he was sent here to show how evil people can be, choosing to cause suffering to others (in the masses) while bound by their own Fears, and inspiring/challenging the rest of us to choose to reject it. Have you read 'Conversations with God' trilogy ? The only book(s) I've read that really try to answer all the questions the rest avoid (btw: in it God describes religions as 'fear based theologies used by a minority to control the masses'). On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 1:00 PM, Jeremy Tonks to...@hotkey.net.au wrote: I may get to a longer response… but probably not… The standard argument goes something like: If God is all powerful and all loving how come there is suffering in the world? The basic premise is flawed from my point of view. I’d respond something like: If God is all powerful and all loving and there is suffering in the world then God must have an important purpose involving suffering. As in all theological discussions Jesus needs be kept at the centre – and there he is as soon you raise the issue of suffering. God’s purposes in creation are centred on Jesus. Jesus’ own suffering, death and resurrection are the guarantee that, when he returns, death will have no power and suffering will be ended. Forever. There’s my briefest theodicy. I can trust God now and into the future because of what Jesus has done in the past. I’ll just duck down while you all start shooting… -- *From:* nswolves@googlegroups.com [mailto:nswolves@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Steven
