Re: [NTG-context] Manual (English) Update soon?
On 2006 Dec 30, at 12:47 AM, Sanjoy Mahajan indited: >> So, I've been contemplating whether I should move "up" the >> abstraction ladder to ConTeXt or "down" to plain TeX and really >> learn to build the world from boxes and glue. :-) > > I wrote my dissertation using plain TeX plus eplain, > ... > I got tired of maintaining and improving the macro hackery, so I > decided to leap over LaTeX to ConTeXt. Yes, that is an issue. As was pointed out earlier in this thread, 'packages' tend to lose support once they're released, so ConTeXt at least has a coherent architecture which, gathering from what I've read on this list, counteracts that. > Here is a hello-world template that I just wrote. It contains many of > the ConTeXt commands that I use most frequently. Cool, thank you! Another sunday after noon (as in 18 hours from now) project! --Doug ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Manual (English) Update soon?
On 2006 Dec 29, at 10:04 PM, Mojca Miklavec indited: > On 12/29/06, Douglas Philips wrote: >> The undocumented features are documented in My Ways? :-) > > Esp. the two MyWay's written by the author who mentioned that ;) :-) I see you also have one... all of which are next up on my Sunday afternoon reading! > See http://wiki.contextgarden.net/My_Way Thanks! > Most other MyWay's deal with fonts. Arg. My bane. Fonts. The one thing that pulls me ever so slightly to using Pages... Not because I want a garish mix of goofball junk fonts, but because I love Palatino for newletters and Papyrus for cards and short notes... I figured out how to get Palatino into LaTeX, but use other programs (so far) to get Papyrus... >> I found a few of those also, and it is very confusing to a newbie >> (such as myself) to figure out what is old and valid and what is old >> and not-so-valid... > > I don't have a good overview, but I don't know that many > "not-so-valid" things. Thanks, that is good to know... > Old things are still valid, there might only be some new > things that you might not know about once you've read the manual. > (plain) TeX is about 25 and still "valid". Only that there are "a few > commands available out there" which can simplify things. The more I look into it, the more I feel that ConTeXt is going in a direction more helpful to me than LaTeX. No comment intended on the "correctness" of either direction, just on the harmony with where I am going. --Doug ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Manual (English) Update soon?
On 2006 Dec 29, at 2:22 PM, andrea valle indited: > Well, maybe I'm missing something. > But if you need to use ConTeXt on a mac you can use Gerben's distro, > which also set up a crontab for you, and when you update it simply > does > all the boring stuff for you (I hate TeX tree structure ...) Gerben has announced end-of-life for his distro system. Well, end of support... except for ConTeXt because of the automation that ConTeXt provides for his packaging needs. Perhaps that would "play well" with TeX Live '06... --Doug ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Manual (English) Update soon?
On 2006 Dec 29, at 12:38 PM, plink indited: > Mojca Miklavec wrote: >> Well, the ConTeXt manual is one of the most stable components of >> ConTeXt indeed ;) > > ;-) > > should be wikified ... Probably, but it'd be sad to lose the ability to download and print it for offline reading (I may be in a small minority of people who like to read reference manuals though)... I'm also not familiar enough with the wiki being used to know if there is anyway for it to agregate a bunch of pages into a reasonably printable form --Doug ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Manual (English) Update soon?
On 2006 Dec 28, at 5:00 PM, Aditya Mahajan indited: > On Thu, 28 Dec 2006, Douglas Philips wrote: >> cont-eni.pdf (ConTeXt the manual by Hans Hagen, November 12th, 2001). > > That is the most up to date manual and should get you started for most > of the basic features. The features that are not in the manual are > mostly related to specific needs, so you can get around even if you do > not know about them. Some My Ways discuss some of these undocumented > features. The undocumented features are documented in My Ways? :-) I found a few of those also, and it is very confusing to a newbie (such as myself) to figure out what is old and valid and what is old and not-so-valid... > Just give it a shot. The is "Latex in proper context" by Berend de > Boer which can help in the transition. The general information on > http://wiki.contextgarden.net/From_LaTeX_to_ConTeXt is also useful. Cool, thanks! > Context is very stable, and much better documented than latex. You can > start with small documents in context to get comfortable with it. The > best documents to start are those where you do not have a strict > formatting requirement, so that you do not need to worry if you can > not get something working. :-) That would be ideal. However, I'm looking to change horses because the documents I am already producing (newsletters for local groups (all volunteer)) are straining at what LaTeX wants me to do. So, I've been contemplating whether I should move "up" the abstraction ladder to ConTeXt or "down" to plain TeX and really learn to build the world from boxes and glue. :-) I'd rather move up. :-) :-) >> (IIRC, Hans is also a core team member of LuaTeX, so perhaps I should >> just suck it up with LaTeX until LuaTeX is viable?) > > LuaTeX is not a replacement for LaTeX. It is a replacement for pdfTeX. > ... > pending feature requests getting implemented. So, if you are planning > on switching to context, there is no real need to wait for luatex. OK. Wasn't sure... > HTH, > Aditya Yes, it did/does, thank you! --Doug ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] Manual (English) Update soon?
On 2006 Dec 28, at 7:43 PM, Mojca Miklavec indited:
> Well, the ConTeXt manual is one of the most stable components of
> ConTeXt indeed ;)
:-)
> But consider it from the bright side:
> yes, it's still fully usable (after two years of using ConTeXt it's
> still hard to do anything without using it), everything mentioned
> there should still work (unless there has been some bug introduced in
> the mean time) and the major functionality has been there at that
> time already.
Thanks, that is reassuring to hear.
> That's surely no excuse for not refreshing the manual, but there's no
> excuse for not sharing your experience on the wiki or web version of
> texshow either.
:-) Keeping the manuals up to date is hard work, which is a lot of
why there is a push (in general) to have source generated docs, but
that isn't easy either... I know.
> not to mention the changes in base LaTeX (documentstyle ->
> documentclass{article} -> Komma script) and the fact that most
> packages become unmaintained after they have been written.
True. And the worst part of it (having used LaTeX, and still on the
precipice of using ConTeXt) is the incompatibilities and the lack of
"ok, so which of these packages works with which others?" annoyance
(which oft becomes frustration).
>> And so I am wondering if ConTeXt is still too fresh...
>
> It's always full of surprizes. But what do you mean with "too fresh"?
> If you're worried that your colleagues don't have the latest version
> of ConTeXt installed (and thus won't be able to compile your code)
> then you're probably right. (But if you want to use the latest packeg
> from LaTeX, there's even more chance that they won't have it. In
> ConTeXt you know at least that downloading one thing should suffice.)
Fair enough. I'm not sure, however, how that all plays out when it
comes to using something like TeXLive (on a Mac, as if that matters)
and the meta-issue of keeping a working TeX install coherent (and
working)...
> Take it from the bright side: even if you were on the list, you
> wouldn't have time to follow it unless you were a student ;)
:-) !!!
> And take it from the bright side again: tetex on most linux
> distributions is just as old as the manual, so you wouldn't be
> missing much ;)
Well, that is an interesting argument. Fortunately my TeX and LaTeX
usage has been such that I haven't run into a lot of bugs, so the
drumbeat of upgrade-upgrade-upgrade-upgrade has been too soft to
hear. Usually what drives a change is wanting to use a layout which
doesn't fit the LaTeX direction. I don't make books or academic
papers, so I'm not in the center of the fairway, heck, I'm not even
in the weeds, I'm in a bowling alley! :-)
> In my opinion "It makes no sense to wait for solar-energy car before
> you start doing your driver's licence. Unless you intend to design or
> produce cars, you shouldn't even notice the difference."
Thanks I deeply wish to not notice the difference!
--Doug
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[NTG-context] Manual (English) Update soon?
Hello again, I've just recently tried to "get up to speed" on ConTeXt by reading what I could find on the web, including cont-eni.pdf (ConTeXt the manual by Hans Hagen, November 12th, 2001). Recent activity on this list, discussing the Debian packaging, says (and I commented on this a few days ago in another thread): "ConTeXt is developed rapidly, often in response to requests from the friendly user community." And so I am wondering if ConTeXt is still too fresh... and if I'll have any chance of figuring out what/how to use it without having been on this list for the past 4+ years... (IIRC, Hans is also a core team member of LuaTeX, so perhaps I should just suck it up with LaTeX until LuaTeX is viable?) Advice, comments, etc. appreciated... --Doug ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
Re: [NTG-context] new debian context 2006.12.21-0.1
On 2006 Dec 24, at 4:40 AM, Hans van der Meer indited: > On Dec 24, 2006, at 0:21, Sanjoy Mahajan wrote: >> ConText is developed rapidly, ... and illustrates the free- >> software philosophy of "release >> often", sometimes twice a day! (<< my emphasis here, hvdm) > I wouldn't stress that fact in this manner. And at the least advice > to rephrase this. From the formulation used here, people could get > the impression that ConTeXt is an extremely instable product and for > that reason refrain from using it. That would be a pity. That was definitely the impression I had... I've just recently joined this list as part of a low-key "I wonder if I'd be happier using ConTeXt rather than fighting LaTeX" evaluation. That Gerben Wierda's i-Installer automatically processes ConTeXt updates doesn't hurt either. :-) Thanks for the clarification! --D'gou ___ ntg-context mailing list ntg-context@ntg.nl http://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context
