Re: [NTG-context] update / punctuation / math
On 4/2/23 14:21, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 13:57, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context wrote:
>
> Well, evince displays it wrong (this is an already known issue with fake
> bold fonts in evince/poppler, reported years ago
> https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/poppler/poppler/-/issues/645).
>
> hm, 4years ago, quite old... and this is not a fake bold, this is an
> instance of a variable font.
> But yes, it seems that evince still has the same problem.
Sorry, Luigi, I meant
http://mailman.ntg.nl/pipermail/ntg-context/attachments/20230401/1f8c6cc9/attachment-0001.pdf.
According to type-imp-concrete.mkiv, text has the feature boldened-10
applied to it.
Even with a variable font (which might not be the case in the link
above), extending the font fakes the bold, such as in:
\definefontfamily
[mainface]
[rm]
[Source Sans 3 VF]
[features={default, boldened-10}]
\setupbodyfont[mainface]
\starttext
\input zapf
\stoptext
Evince displays it poorly and this is what happens in the link above.
Pablo
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Re: [NTG-context] update / punctuation / math
On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 13:57, Pablo Rodriguez via ntg-context < ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: > On 4/2/23 11:19, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote: > > On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 11:06, Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context > > mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> wrote: > > > > If you talk about the math font, I do not see what you mean. Daniel > > has worked a lot on his fonts, and they now work well. > > > > > > indeed the body font is not concrete opentype math but it looks very > > similar at first sight > > Hi Luigi, > > according to type-imp-concrete.mkiv, Concrete-Math.otf seems to be only > used for the math font. > > > here evince & mupdf are quite ok (evince somewhat bolder than mupdf), > > Well, evince displays it wrong (this is an already known issue with fake > bold fonts in evince/poppler, reported years ago > [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/poppler/poppler/-/issues/645]). > > hm, 4years ago, quite old... and this is not a fake bold, this is an instance of a variable font. But yes, it seems that evince still has the same problem. -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] update / punctuation / math
On 4/2/23 11:19, luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote: > On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 11:06, Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context > mailto:ntg-context@ntg.nl>> wrote: > > If you talk about the math font, I do not see what you mean. Daniel > has worked a lot on his fonts, and they now work well. > > > indeed the body font is not concrete opentype math but it looks very > similar at first sight Hi Luigi, according to type-imp-concrete.mkiv, Concrete-Math.otf seems to be only used for the math font. > here evince & mupdf are quite ok (evince somewhat bolder than mupdf), Well, evince displays it wrong (this is an already known issue with fake bold fonts in evince/poppler, reported years ago [https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/poppler/poppler/-/issues/645]). Just in case it might help, Pablo ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] update / punctuation / math
Hi, On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 11:29 AM luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote: > > > > On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 10:35, luigi scarso wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 10:28, Hans Hagen via ntg-context >> wrote: >>> >>> Hi, >>> >> >> As a side note (it's 2 april now) >> the concrete font of the pdf is not rendered well both on web and t on >> win/linux desktop . >> No surprise, I did some experiments with mflua years ago and my results >> had the same problem. > > > getting old... the pdf doesn't look so bad as I was used to remember > https://meeting.contextgarden.net/2017/talks/2017-09-14-luigi-mflua/slides.pdf > > So yes , it's the instance of the variable font. Oh, that looks like a very nice talk, I wish I had been there. /Mikael ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] update / punctuation / math
On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 10:35, luigi scarso wrote: > > > On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 10:28, Hans Hagen via ntg-context < > ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> > As a side note (it's 2 april now) > the concrete font of the pdf is not rendered well both on web and t on > win/linux desktop . > No surprise, I did some experiments with mflua years ago and my > results had the same problem. > getting old... the pdf doesn't look so bad as I was used to remember https://meeting.contextgarden.net/2017/talks/2017-09-14-luigi-mflua/slides.pdf So yes , it's the instance of the variable font. -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] update / punctuation / math
On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 at 11:06, Mikael Sundqvist via ntg-context < ntg-context@ntg.nl> wrote: > > If you talk about the math font, I do not see what you mean. Daniel > has worked a lot on his fonts, and they now work well. > indeed the body font is not concrete opentype math but it looks very similar at first sight (of course... ). I was deceived because I remember its shapes quite well (C ,g a ). > > If you talk about the text font, Hans changed the concrete typescript > so that it uses the variable "mono" Latin modern instead of the > concrete text font that comes from Computer modern unicode. But the > font is also boldened slightly, and perhaps that is what causes your > problem (It did look weird on my phone for half a second or so before > it "got normal"). In okular I see no problems. > > here evince & mupdf are quite ok (evince somewhat bolder than mupdf), okular looks not so good. They all have a caching-something, after the first zooms the pdf is rendered differently. -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] update / punctuation / math
Hi, On Sun, Apr 2, 2023 at 10:35 AM luigi scarso via ntg-context wrote: > > > > On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 10:28, Hans Hagen via ntg-context > wrote: >> >> Hi, >> > > As a side note (it's 2 april now) > the concrete font of the pdf is not rendered well both on web and t on > win/linux desktop . > No surprise, I did some experiments with mflua years ago and my results > had the same problem. > Is it a known issue? If you talk about the math font, I do not see what you mean. Daniel has worked a lot on his fonts, and they now work well. If you talk about the text font, Hans changed the concrete typescript so that it uses the variable "mono" Latin modern instead of the concrete text font that comes from Computer modern unicode. But the font is also boldened slightly, and perhaps that is what causes your problem (It did look weird on my phone for half a second or so before it "got normal"). In okular I see no problems. /Mikael ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] update / punctuation / math
On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 at 10:28, Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote: > Hi, > > As a side note (it's 2 april now) the concrete font of the pdf is not rendered well both on web and t on win/linux desktop . No surprise, I did some experiments with mflua years ago and my results had the same problem. Is it a known issue? -- luigi ___ If your question is of interest to others as well, please add an entry to the Wiki! maillist : ntg-context@ntg.nl / https://www.ntg.nl/mailman/listinfo/ntg-context webpage : https://www.pragma-ade.nl / http://context.aanhet.net archive : https://bitbucket.org/phg/context-mirror/commits/ wiki : https://contextgarden.net ___
Re: [NTG-context] update / punctuation / math
Here in Colorado, we need $\widecowboyhat$. Of course, care should be taken so that it typeset properly in right-to-left as well. Alan On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 10:27:41 +0200 Hans Hagen via ntg-context wrote: > Hi, > > There have been some mails about punctuation spacing and a fix was > added to the engine that related to that. As tests showed it to be > okay so we made an update. It took a bit longer than normal because > we were in the middle of some other math stuff: additional fonts and > extensibles. > > Daniel Flipo maintains a few math fonts (like concrete, xcharter, > erewhon, kp, euler) and the last few weeks more extensive support for > extensibles was added and concrete became quite nice too, so these > fonts make a nice benchmark. As they are part of the lmtx install and > we made sure to support them. > > In the process we adapted our 2023 roadmap of which part is attached > (we included an example end then decided to show of concrete). > > When we go through the process of 'upgrading' we noticed some > interesting names for symbols and 'constructs'. Quite some come from > plain and/or amsmath (in the past taco and aditya did some porting to > context) and we're not always sure if something is really used (or > even what it was intended for) so if you notice something weird or > missing, let us know. Examples are welcome too. It might also be that > something can go away because it's obsolete or never needed (so far > we could resist te kick-out-symbole-name temptation when it comes to > symbol names that we think no sane user can remember or imagine to be > there). > > When often add extra tests to the test suite (math subsection). > > Hans & Mikael > > ps. Alan and I are still messing around with some cross referencing. > That code is still experimental and can have issues that we're > looking at but hard to nail down (huge complex cross-referencing > documents). More about that later. > > == > > We added the tex of the pdf below > > == extract from roadmap == > > \usemodule[article-basic,abbreviations-logos] > > \setupbodyfont[concrete] > > \starttext > > \startsubject[title=Math in \CONTEXT\ roadmap] > > \startitemize[n] > > \startitem > After playing with math support for more than a year, we have > come to the > conclusion that it is time to move on. We have already discarded > italic correction and now are replacing rules with extensibles. Much > was already in > place (and applied) but experiences with type one antykwas made > us review > some \OPENTYPE\ fonts. Not using rules makes some of them look > better. The > effect is subtle and probably not \AMS\ compliant, but we think > that it will > work out well for simple math like fractions of decimal numbers. > Consequently, we have added to our shrinking to-do list the > burden to investigate whether we can remove those obsolete code paths > from the engine. > After all, who needs italic correction, who prefers ugly rules > to beautiful > glyphs, and who understands all these font parameters? > Furthermore, after all > these years, we don't expect \OPENTYPE\ font and \UNICODE\ math > technologies > to improve much; we don't know if \MICROSOFT\ is developing > their technology > further at all. Therefore, we are confident that what we are > doing is the way > it should have been done when math was upgraded. Hopefully users > will notice > the improvements. > \stopitem > > \startitem > Math also means physics and units (that topic was brought up > recently on the > list by Gavin). Therefore, because we're in cleanup mode, we > decided to eliminate some more. With \ISO\ now in place for a long > time, we are going to > ignore the existence of the inch as unit from now on. The unit > will probably > remain in the engine for nostalgic reasons, but it will no be > accepted in > MWE. Instead, we will provide some more modern, culturally > correct, kid-friendly units that we will use in examples, manuals and > such. Because > the four-person strong team dealing with this wants to avoid > making mistakes, > we will go through a careful and scientifically sound process of > calibration > first, using a selected tex savvy audience. We expect these new > units to be > stable a month from now. Believe it or not, in the process of > documenting all > this, we found a buglet in the new math dimension spacing, so it > has already > paid off. Expect to hear more in a month or so, and enjoy your > inches as long > as you still can. In case you wonder how this relates to math > other than > mentioned: the math subsystem has 'mu' as adaptive unit, and > that inspired is > to come up with one for text (in addition to two new more or > less fixed units). > \stopitem > > \startitem > The math family model is a fundamental concept in \TEX\ but
Re: [NTG-context] update / punctuation / math
Cute, as always today :-) Willi > On 1 Apr 2023, at 10:27, Hans Hagen via ntg-context > wrote: > > Hi, > > There have been some mails about punctuation spacing and a fix was added to > the engine that related to that. As tests showed it to be okay so we made an > update. It took a bit longer than normal because we were in the middle of > some other math stuff: additional fonts and extensibles. > > Daniel Flipo maintains a few math fonts (like concrete, xcharter, erewhon, > kp, euler) and the last few weeks more extensive support for extensibles was > added and concrete became quite nice too, so these fonts make a nice > benchmark. As they are part of the lmtx install and we made sure to support > them. > > In the process we adapted our 2023 roadmap of which part is attached (we > included an example end then decided to show of concrete). > > When we go through the process of 'upgrading' we noticed some interesting > names for symbols and 'constructs'. Quite some come from plain and/or amsmath > (in the past taco and aditya did some porting to context) and we're not > always sure if something is really used (or even what it was intended for) so > if you notice something weird or missing, let us know. Examples are welcome > too. It might also be that something can go away because it's obsolete or > never needed (so far we could resist te kick-out-symbole-name temptation when > it comes to symbol names that we think no sane user can remember or imagine > to be there). > > When often add extra tests to the test suite (math subsection). > > Hans & Mikael > > ps. Alan and I are still messing around with some cross referencing. That > code is still experimental and can have issues that we're looking at but hard > to nail down (huge complex cross-referencing documents). More about that > later. > > == > > We added the tex of the pdf below > > == extract from roadmap == > > \usemodule[article-basic,abbreviations-logos] > > \setupbodyfont[concrete] > > \starttext > > \startsubject[title=Math in \CONTEXT\ roadmap] > > \startitemize[n] > > \startitem >After playing with math support for more than a year, we have come to the >conclusion that it is time to move on. We have already discarded italic >correction and now are replacing rules with extensibles. Much was already > in >place (and applied) but experiences with type one antykwas made us review >some \OPENTYPE\ fonts. Not using rules makes some of them look better. The >effect is subtle and probably not \AMS\ compliant, but we think that it > will >work out well for simple math like fractions of decimal numbers. >Consequently, we have added to our shrinking to-do list the burden to >investigate whether we can remove those obsolete code paths from the > engine. >After all, who needs italic correction, who prefers ugly rules to beautiful >glyphs, and who understands all these font parameters? Furthermore, after > all >these years, we don't expect \OPENTYPE\ font and \UNICODE\ math > technologies >to improve much; we don't know if \MICROSOFT\ is developing their > technology >further at all. Therefore, we are confident that what we are doing is the > way >it should have been done when math was upgraded. Hopefully users will > notice >the improvements. > \stopitem > > \startitem >Math also means physics and units (that topic was brought up recently on > the >list by Gavin). Therefore, because we're in cleanup mode, we decided to >eliminate some more. With \ISO\ now in place for a long time, we are going > to >ignore the existence of the inch as unit from now on. The unit will > probably >remain in the engine for nostalgic reasons, but it will no be accepted in >MWE. Instead, we will provide some more modern, culturally correct, >kid-friendly units that we will use in examples, manuals and such. Because >the four-person strong team dealing with this wants to avoid making > mistakes, >we will go through a careful and scientifically sound process of > calibration >first, using a selected tex savvy audience. We expect these new units to be >stable a month from now. Believe it or not, in the process of documenting > all >this, we found a buglet in the new math dimension spacing, so it has > already >paid off. Expect to hear more in a month or so, and enjoy your inches as > long >as you still can. In case you wonder how this relates to math other than >mentioned: the math subsystem has 'mu' as adaptive unit, and that inspired > is >to come up with one for text (in addition to two new more or less fixed >units). > \stopitem > > \startitem >The math family model is a fundamental concept in \TEX\ but we think we can >do without. First of all, \OPENTYPE\ math fonts have (design) script and >scriptscript sizes built in, so for that we have o
[NTG-context] update / punctuation / math
Hi, There have been some mails about punctuation spacing and a fix was added to the engine that related to that. As tests showed it to be okay so we made an update. It took a bit longer than normal because we were in the middle of some other math stuff: additional fonts and extensibles. Daniel Flipo maintains a few math fonts (like concrete, xcharter, erewhon, kp, euler) and the last few weeks more extensive support for extensibles was added and concrete became quite nice too, so these fonts make a nice benchmark. As they are part of the lmtx install and we made sure to support them. In the process we adapted our 2023 roadmap of which part is attached (we included an example end then decided to show of concrete). When we go through the process of 'upgrading' we noticed some interesting names for symbols and 'constructs'. Quite some come from plain and/or amsmath (in the past taco and aditya did some porting to context) and we're not always sure if something is really used (or even what it was intended for) so if you notice something weird or missing, let us know. Examples are welcome too. It might also be that something can go away because it's obsolete or never needed (so far we could resist te kick-out-symbole-name temptation when it comes to symbol names that we think no sane user can remember or imagine to be there). When often add extra tests to the test suite (math subsection). Hans & Mikael ps. Alan and I are still messing around with some cross referencing. That code is still experimental and can have issues that we're looking at but hard to nail down (huge complex cross-referencing documents). More about that later. == We added the tex of the pdf below == extract from roadmap == \usemodule[article-basic,abbreviations-logos] \setupbodyfont[concrete] \starttext \startsubject[title=Math in \CONTEXT\ roadmap] \startitemize[n] \startitem After playing with math support for more than a year, we have come to the conclusion that it is time to move on. We have already discarded italic correction and now are replacing rules with extensibles. Much was already in place (and applied) but experiences with type one antykwas made us review some \OPENTYPE\ fonts. Not using rules makes some of them look better. The effect is subtle and probably not \AMS\ compliant, but we think that it will work out well for simple math like fractions of decimal numbers. Consequently, we have added to our shrinking to-do list the burden to investigate whether we can remove those obsolete code paths from the engine. After all, who needs italic correction, who prefers ugly rules to beautiful glyphs, and who understands all these font parameters? Furthermore, after all these years, we don't expect \OPENTYPE\ font and \UNICODE\ math technologies to improve much; we don't know if \MICROSOFT\ is developing their technology further at all. Therefore, we are confident that what we are doing is the way it should have been done when math was upgraded. Hopefully users will notice the improvements. \stopitem \startitem Math also means physics and units (that topic was brought up recently on the list by Gavin). Therefore, because we're in cleanup mode, we decided to eliminate some more. With \ISO\ now in place for a long time, we are going to ignore the existence of the inch as unit from now on. The unit will probably remain in the engine for nostalgic reasons, but it will no be accepted in MWE. Instead, we will provide some more modern, culturally correct, kid-friendly units that we will use in examples, manuals and such. Because the four-person strong team dealing with this wants to avoid making mistakes, we will go through a careful and scientifically sound process of calibration first, using a selected tex savvy audience. We expect these new units to be stable a month from now. Believe it or not, in the process of documenting all this, we found a buglet in the new math dimension spacing, so it has already paid off. Expect to hear more in a month or so, and enjoy your inches as long as you still can. In case you wonder how this relates to math other than mentioned: the math subsystem has 'mu' as adaptive unit, and that inspired is to come up with one for text (in addition to two new more or less fixed units). \stopitem \startitem The math family model is a fundamental concept in \TEX\ but we think we can do without. First of all, \OPENTYPE\ math fonts have (design) script and scriptscript sizes built in, so for that we have one family. Second, only full bold (heavy) makes sense as companion for regular math which is something that in practice we can support otherwise. So, this makes us consider dropping families altogether which then provides (mem) space for even mor
