Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

2015-01-08 Thread Phil Jeffrey 
If it's fluttering around in the street about to get pretzeled by a taxi
I'm sure someone can get it to the Wild Bird Fund on the Upper West Side in
Manhattan.
http://wildbirdfund.org/

In contrast to Rick Cech's point of view, Selasphorus hummingbirds and
Western Tanagers show several records from Feb-Mar indicating overwintering
success in this region.  Western Kingbird or Ash-throated Flycatcher
essentially none.  If I were prone to wagering on survival rates of
vagrants I know where I'd put my money.

Phil Jeffrey
Princeton

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:06 AM, Linda Orkin  wrote:

> It doesn't hurt to help beings in trouble if it is possible to do.
> Wouldn't you want the same done for you?
>
> Linda Orkin
> Ithaca,  NY
>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Will Raup 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> Why should we get involved at all?  They are vagrants, moved out of their
>> normal range for whatever reason.  They will either survive and return
>> home, or they won't.  That's the way nature works.  I think we should stand
>> back and let nature take its course and not get directly involved.
>>
>> Will Raup
>> Glenmont, NY
>>
>>
>> --
>> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:25:22 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
>> From: peter.co...@gmail.com
>> To: rc...@nyc.rr.com
>> CC: hdmcguinn...@gmail.com; orhanbir...@gmail.com; NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
>>
>>
>> Good discussion,
>>
>> Here is a Dusky-capped Flycatcher eating fruit/vegetables in the warm
>> climate of El Salvador, but I also suspect the 2 kingbirds could use some
>> good bugs in this weather.
>>
>> Perhaps it would be good too make an arrangement with a rehabber in case
>> of emergency. Birds get sick fast.
>>
>> From one who lived with birds, Peter
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Rick  wrote:
>>
>> True, and don’t forget the somewhat similar overwinter survival of the
>> Rufous Hummingbird outside the American Museum of Natural History a few
>> years back; the last posting I’m aware of for that bird was 3/11/2012.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011-12 was a mild winter, admittedly, but hummers are hardly a model of
>> cold tolerance (they lack down feathers, lose heat rapidly, and need to go
>> into torpor overnight even in comparatively mild conditions to conserve
>> energy).
>>
>>
>>
>> In any case, don’t sell birds short, provided they have adequate
>> good-quality food. (The question in my mind, aside from availability of
>> small fruits and such, is whether or not they are an adequate substitute
>> for higher-quality insect protein in severe cold, versus in milder
>> traditional overwintering sites.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:
>> bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu] *On Behalf Of *Hugh McGuinness
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 08, 2015 7:18 AM
>> *To:* Orhan Birol
>> *Cc:* NYSBIRDS-L
>> *Subject:* Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
>>
>>
>>
>> My memory of Tyrannus biology is that all members of the genus become
>> mostly or partly frugivorous during winter, and simply supplement their
>> diet with insects when available. So, their survival in NYC may depend more
>> on the availability of small fruits, for which they are competing with the
>> many Robins and Starlings, than on the availability of insects.
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Orhan Birol 
>> wrote:
>>
>> On Sunday I observed both.
>>
>> The Cassins was flycatching nonstop for the 10 minutes I was there.
>>
>> I think the row of low evergreens(boxwood?) on the west side of the
>> community gardens and plenty of shelter in the gardens, may protect it from
>> the cold.
>>
>> The Couches also has enough shelter in enclosed gardens, structures etc.
>> The 10 minutes I was there, it called nonstop but never fed.
>>
>> I have no idea if the insects both feed on will survive tonight.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Orhan Birol
>>
>> Shelter Island
>>
>> --
>>
>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>>
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RE: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

2015-01-08 Thread Paul R Sweet 
NY Birders

While on the subject of vagrants and their possible demise, I would like to 
reiterate that if a bird such as this does die and is found it should be 
deposited in a natural history collection where it can be permanently archived.

Thanks, Paul Sweet


Paul Sweet
Collection Manager
Department of Ornithology
American Museum of Natural History
Central Park West at 79th Street
New York, NY 10024

Tel: 212 769 5780
Cell: 718 757 5941



From: bounce-118684156-11471...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-118684156-11471...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Will Raup
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 11:05 AM
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: RE: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?


Why should we get involved at all?  They are vagrants, moved out of their 
normal range for whatever reason.  They will either survive and return home, or 
they won't.  That's the way nature works.  I think we should stand back and let 
nature take its course and not get directly involved.

Will Raup
Glenmont, NY


Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:25:22 -0500
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
From: peter.co...@gmail.com
To: rc...@nyc.rr.com
CC: hdmcguinn...@gmail.com; orhanbir...@gmail.com; NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
Good discussion,

Here is a Dusky-capped Flycatcher eating fruit/vegetables in the warm climate 
of El Salvador, but I also suspect the 2 kingbirds could use some good bugs in 
this weather.

Perhaps it would be good too make an arrangement with a rehabber in case of 
emergency. Birds get sick fast.

>From one who lived with birds, Peter

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Rick 
mailto:rc...@nyc.rr.com>> wrote:
True, and don't forget the somewhat similar overwinter survival of the Rufous 
Hummingbird outside the American Museum of Natural History a few years back; 
the last posting I'm aware of for that bird was 3/11/2012.

2011-12 was a mild winter, admittedly, but hummers are hardly a model of cold 
tolerance (they lack down feathers, lose heat rapidly, and need to go into 
torpor overnight even in comparatively mild conditions to conserve energy).

In any case, don't sell birds short, provided they have adequate good-quality 
food. (The question in my mind, aside from availability of small fruits and 
such, is whether or not they are an adequate substitute for higher-quality 
insect protein in severe cold, versus in milder traditional overwintering 
sites.)

Rick

From: 
bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu<mailto:bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu>
 
[mailto:bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu<mailto:bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu>]
 On Behalf Of Hugh McGuinness
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 7:18 AM
To: Orhan Birol
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

My memory of Tyrannus biology is that all members of the genus become mostly or 
partly frugivorous during winter, and simply supplement their diet with insects 
when available. So, their survival in NYC may depend more on the availability 
of small fruits, for which they are competing with the many Robins and 
Starlings, than on the availability of insects.
Hugh

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Orhan Birol 
mailto:orhanbir...@gmail.com>> wrote:
On Sunday I observed both.
The Cassins was flycatching nonstop for the 10 minutes I was there.
I think the row of low evergreens(boxwood?) on the west side of the community 
gardens and plenty of shelter in the gardens, may protect it from the cold.
The Couches also has enough shelter in enclosed gardens, structures etc. The 10 
minutes I was there, it called nonstop but never fed.
I have no idea if the insects both feed on will survive tonight.
Any thoughts?
Orhan Birol
Shelter Island
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RE: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

2015-01-08 Thread Grover, Bob 
Unless someone has some science to add, we should probably move on.
Bob Grover







From: bounce-118684178-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-118684178-3714...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Linda Orkin
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 11:13 AM
To: Justin Lawson
Cc: Will Raup; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

Suffering is suffering, compassion is compassion.
Linda Orkin
Ithaca, NY

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Justin Lawson 
mailto:justindlaw...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Hope we aren't comparing a bird's life to a human life.


On Thursday, January 8, 2015, Linda Orkin 
mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
It doesn't hurt to help beings in trouble if it is possible to do.   Wouldn't 
you want the same done for you?

Linda Orkin
Ithaca,  NY

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Will Raup 
mailto:hoaryredp...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Why should we get involved at all?  They are vagrants, moved out of their 
normal range for whatever reason.  They will either survive and return home, or 
they won't.  That's the way nature works.  I think we should stand back and let 
nature take its course and not get directly involved.

Will Raup
Glenmont, NY

____
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:25:22 -0500
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
From: peter.co...@gmail.com<mailto:peter.co...@gmail.com>
To: rc...@nyc.rr.com<mailto:rc...@nyc.rr.com>
CC: hdmcguinn...@gmail.com<mailto:hdmcguinn...@gmail.com>; 
orhanbir...@gmail.com<mailto:orhanbir...@gmail.com>; 
NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu<mailto:NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu>

Good discussion,

Here is a Dusky-capped Flycatcher eating fruit/vegetables in the warm climate 
of El Salvador, but I also suspect the 2 kingbirds could use some good bugs in 
this weather.

Perhaps it would be good too make an arrangement with a rehabber in case of 
emergency. Birds get sick fast.

From one who lived with birds, Peter

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Rick 
mailto:rc...@nyc.rr.com>> wrote:

True, and don’t forget the somewhat similar overwinter survival of the Rufous 
Hummingbird outside the American Museum of Natural History a few years back; 
the last posting I’m aware of for that bird was 3/11/2012.



2011-12 was a mild winter, admittedly, but hummers are hardly a model of cold 
tolerance (they lack down feathers, lose heat rapidly, and need to go into 
torpor overnight even in comparatively mild conditions to conserve energy).



In any case, don’t sell birds short, provided they have adequate good-quality 
food. (The question in my mind, aside from availability of small fruits and 
such, is whether or not they are an adequate substitute for higher-quality 
insect protein in severe cold, versus in milder traditional overwintering 
sites.)



Rick



From: 
bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu<mailto:bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu>
 [mailto:bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Hugh McGuinness
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 7:18 AM
To: Orhan Birol
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?



My memory of Tyrannus biology is that all members of the genus become mostly or 
partly frugivorous during winter, and simply supplement their diet with insects 
when available. So, their survival in NYC may depend more on the availability 
of small fruits, for which they are competing with the many Robins and 
Starlings, than on the availability of insects.

Hugh



On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Orhan Birol 
mailto:orhanbir...@gmail.com>> wrote:

On Sunday I observed both.

The Cassins was flycatching nonstop for the 10 minutes I was there.

I think the row of low evergreens(boxwood?) on the west side of the community 
gardens and plenty of shelter in the gardens, may protect it from the cold.

The Couches also has enough shelter in enclosed gardens, structures etc. The 10 
minutes I was there, it called nonstop but never fed.

I have no idea if the insects both feed on will survive tonight.

Any thoughts?

Orhan Birol

Shelter Island

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RE: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

2015-01-08 Thread McIntyre, Annie (PARKS) 
Interesting discussion but please continue privately off list.

Thank you.

From: bounce-118684169-10774...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-118684169-10774...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Justin Lawson
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 11:09 AM
To: Linda Orkin
Cc: Will Raup; NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

Hope we aren't comparing a bird's life to a human life.

On Thursday, January 8, 2015, Linda Orkin 
mailto:wingmagi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
It doesn't hurt to help beings in trouble if it is possible to do.   Wouldn't 
you want the same done for you?

Linda Orkin
Ithaca,  NY

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Will Raup 
>
 wrote:

Why should we get involved at all?  They are vagrants, moved out of their 
normal range for whatever reason.  They will either survive and return home, or 
they won't.  That's the way nature works.  I think we should stand back and let 
nature take its course and not get directly involved.

Will Raup
Glenmont, NY


Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:25:22 -0500
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
From: 
peter.co...@gmail.com
To: rc...@nyc.rr.com
CC: 
hdmcguinn...@gmail.com; 
orhanbir...@gmail.com; 
NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu

Good discussion,

Here is a Dusky-capped Flycatcher eating fruit/vegetables in the warm climate 
of El Salvador, but I also suspect the 2 kingbirds could use some good bugs in 
this weather.

Perhaps it would be good too make an arrangement with a rehabber in case of 
emergency. Birds get sick fast.

From one who lived with birds, Peter

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Rick 
> wrote:

True, and don’t forget the somewhat similar overwinter survival of the Rufous 
Hummingbird outside the American Museum of Natural History a few years back; 
the last posting I’m aware of for that bird was 3/11/2012.



2011-12 was a mild winter, admittedly, but hummers are hardly a model of cold 
tolerance (they lack down feathers, lose heat rapidly, and need to go into 
torpor overnight even in comparatively mild conditions to conserve energy).



In any case, don’t sell birds short, provided they have adequate good-quality 
food. (The question in my mind, aside from availability of small fruits and 
such, is whether or not they are an adequate substitute for higher-quality 
insect protein in severe cold, versus in milder traditional overwintering 
sites.)



Rick



From: 
bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu
 
[mailto:bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu]
 On Behalf Of Hugh McGuinness
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 7:18 AM
To: Orhan Birol
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?



My memory of Tyrannus biology is that all members of the genus become mostly or 
partly frugivorous during winter, and simply supplement their diet with insects 
when available. So, their survival in NYC may depend more on the availability 
of small fruits, for which they are competing with the many Robins and 
Starlings, than on the availability of insects.

Hugh



On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Orhan Birol 
> 
wrote:

On Sunday I observed both.

The Cassins was flycatching nonstop for the 10 minutes I was there.

I think the row of low evergreens(boxwood?) on the west side of the community 
gardens and plenty of shelter in the gardens, may protect it from the cold.

The Couches also has enough shelter in enclosed gardens, structures etc. The 10 
minutes I was there, it called nonstop but never fed.

I have no idea if the insects both feed on will survive tonight.

Any thoughts?

Orhan Birol

Shelter Island

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Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

2015-01-08 Thread Linda Orkin 
Suffering is suffering, compassion is compassion.

Linda Orkin
Ithaca, NY

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Justin Lawson 
wrote:

> Hope we aren't comparing a bird's life to a human life.
>
>
> On Thursday, January 8, 2015, Linda Orkin  wrote:
>
>> It doesn't hurt to help beings in trouble if it is possible to do.
>> Wouldn't you want the same done for you?
>>
>> Linda Orkin
>> Ithaca,  NY
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Will Raup 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Why should we get involved at all?  They are vagrants, moved out of
>>> their normal range for whatever reason.  They will either survive and
>>> return home, or they won't.  That's the way nature works.  I think we
>>> should stand back and let nature take its course and not get directly
>>> involved.
>>>
>>> Will Raup
>>> Glenmont, NY
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:25:22 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
>>> From: peter.co...@gmail.com
>>> To: rc...@nyc.rr.com
>>> CC: hdmcguinn...@gmail.com; orhanbir...@gmail.com;
>>> NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
>>>
>>>
>>> Good discussion,
>>>
>>> Here is a Dusky-capped Flycatcher eating fruit/vegetables in the warm
>>> climate of El Salvador, but I also suspect the 2 kingbirds could use some
>>> good bugs in this weather.
>>>
>>> Perhaps it would be good too make an arrangement with a rehabber in case
>>> of emergency. Birds get sick fast.
>>>
>>> From one who lived with birds, Peter
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Rick  wrote:
>>>
>>> True, and don’t forget the somewhat similar overwinter survival of the
>>> Rufous Hummingbird outside the American Museum of Natural History a few
>>> years back; the last posting I’m aware of for that bird was 3/11/2012.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2011-12 was a mild winter, admittedly, but hummers are hardly a model of
>>> cold tolerance (they lack down feathers, lose heat rapidly, and need to go
>>> into torpor overnight even in comparatively mild conditions to conserve
>>> energy).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In any case, don’t sell birds short, provided they have adequate
>>> good-quality food. (The question in my mind, aside from availability of
>>> small fruits and such, is whether or not they are an adequate substitute
>>> for higher-quality insect protein in severe cold, versus in milder
>>> traditional overwintering sites.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Rick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:
>>> bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu] *On Behalf Of *Hugh
>>> McGuinness
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 08, 2015 7:18 AM
>>> *To:* Orhan Birol
>>> *Cc:* NYSBIRDS-L
>>> *Subject:* Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My memory of Tyrannus biology is that all members of the genus become
>>> mostly or partly frugivorous during winter, and simply supplement their
>>> diet with insects when available. So, their survival in NYC may depend more
>>> on the availability of small fruits, for which they are competing with the
>>> many Robins and Starlings, than on the availability of insects.
>>>
>>> Hugh
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Orhan Birol 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sunday I observed both.
>>>
>>> The Cassins was flycatching nonstop for the 10 minutes I was there.
>>>
>>> I think the row of low evergreens(boxwood?) on the west side of the
>>> community gardens and plenty of shelter in the gardens, may protect it from
>>> the cold.
>>>
>>> The Couches also has enough shelter in enclosed gardens, structures etc.
>>> The 10 minutes I was there, it called nonstop but never fed.
>>>
>>> I have no idea if the insects both feed on will survive tonight.
>>>
>>> Any thoughts?
>>>
>>> Orhan Birol
>>>
>>> Shelter Island
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>>>
>>> Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME>
>>>
>>> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES

Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

2015-01-08 Thread Justin Lawson 
Hope we aren't comparing a bird's life to a human life.

On Thursday, January 8, 2015, Linda Orkin  wrote:

> It doesn't hurt to help beings in trouble if it is possible to do.
> Wouldn't you want the same done for you?
>
> Linda Orkin
> Ithaca,  NY
>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Will Raup  > wrote:
>
>>
>> Why should we get involved at all?  They are vagrants, moved out of their
>> normal range for whatever reason.  They will either survive and return
>> home, or they won't.  That's the way nature works.  I think we should stand
>> back and let nature take its course and not get directly involved.
>>
>> Will Raup
>> Glenmont, NY
>>
>>
>> ------
>> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:25:22 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
>> From: peter.co...@gmail.com
>> 
>> To: rc...@nyc.rr.com 
>> CC: hdmcguinn...@gmail.com
>> ;
>> orhanbir...@gmail.com
>> ;
>> NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
>> 
>>
>>
>> Good discussion,
>>
>> Here is a Dusky-capped Flycatcher eating fruit/vegetables in the warm
>> climate of El Salvador, but I also suspect the 2 kingbirds could use some
>> good bugs in this weather.
>>
>> Perhaps it would be good too make an arrangement with a rehabber in case
>> of emergency. Birds get sick fast.
>>
>> From one who lived with birds, Peter
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Rick > > wrote:
>>
>> True, and don’t forget the somewhat similar overwinter survival of the
>> Rufous Hummingbird outside the American Museum of Natural History a few
>> years back; the last posting I’m aware of for that bird was 3/11/2012.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2011-12 was a mild winter, admittedly, but hummers are hardly a model of
>> cold tolerance (they lack down feathers, lose heat rapidly, and need to go
>> into torpor overnight even in comparatively mild conditions to conserve
>> energy).
>>
>>
>>
>> In any case, don’t sell birds short, provided they have adequate
>> good-quality food. (The question in my mind, aside from availability of
>> small fruits and such, is whether or not they are an adequate substitute
>> for higher-quality insect protein in severe cold, versus in milder
>> traditional overwintering sites.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu
>> 
>> [mailto:bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu
>> ]
>> *On Behalf Of *Hugh McGuinness
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 08, 2015 7:18 AM
>> *To:* Orhan Birol
>> *Cc:* NYSBIRDS-L
>> *Subject:* Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
>>
>>
>>
>> My memory of Tyrannus biology is that all members of the genus become
>> mostly or partly frugivorous during winter, and simply supplement their
>> diet with insects when available. So, their survival in NYC may depend more
>> on the availability of small fruits, for which they are competing with the
>> many Robins and Starlings, than on the availability of insects.
>>
>> Hugh
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Orhan Birol > > wrote:
>>
>> On Sunday I observed both.
>>
>> The Cassins was flycatching nonstop for the 10 minutes I was there.
>>
>> I think the row of low evergreens(boxwood?) on the west side of the
>> community gardens and plenty of shelter in the gardens, may protect it from
>> the cold.
>>
>> The Couches also has enough shelter in enclosed gardens, structures etc.
>> The 10 minutes I was there, it called nonstop but never fed.
>>
>> I have no idea if the insects both feed on will survive tonight.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Orhan Birol
>>
>> Shelter Island
>>
>> --
>>
>> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

2015-01-08 Thread Linda Orkin 
It doesn't hurt to help beings in trouble if it is possible to do.
Wouldn't you want the same done for you?

Linda Orkin
Ithaca,  NY

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:04 AM, Will Raup  wrote:

>
> Why should we get involved at all?  They are vagrants, moved out of their
> normal range for whatever reason.  They will either survive and return
> home, or they won't.  That's the way nature works.  I think we should stand
> back and let nature take its course and not get directly involved.
>
> Will Raup
> Glenmont, NY
>
>
> --
> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:25:22 -0500
> Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
> From: peter.co...@gmail.com
> To: rc...@nyc.rr.com
> CC: hdmcguinn...@gmail.com; orhanbir...@gmail.com; NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu
>
>
> Good discussion,
>
> Here is a Dusky-capped Flycatcher eating fruit/vegetables in the warm
> climate of El Salvador, but I also suspect the 2 kingbirds could use some
> good bugs in this weather.
>
> Perhaps it would be good too make an arrangement with a rehabber in case
> of emergency. Birds get sick fast.
>
> From one who lived with birds, Peter
>
> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Rick  wrote:
>
> True, and don’t forget the somewhat similar overwinter survival of the
> Rufous Hummingbird outside the American Museum of Natural History a few
> years back; the last posting I’m aware of for that bird was 3/11/2012.
>
>
>
> 2011-12 was a mild winter, admittedly, but hummers are hardly a model of
> cold tolerance (they lack down feathers, lose heat rapidly, and need to go
> into torpor overnight even in comparatively mild conditions to conserve
> energy).
>
>
>
> In any case, don’t sell birds short, provided they have adequate
> good-quality food. (The question in my mind, aside from availability of
> small fruits and such, is whether or not they are an adequate substitute
> for higher-quality insect protein in severe cold, versus in milder
> traditional overwintering sites.)
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> *From:* bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:
> bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu] *On Behalf Of *Hugh McGuinness
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 08, 2015 7:18 AM
> *To:* Orhan Birol
> *Cc:* NYSBIRDS-L
> *Subject:* Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
>
>
>
> My memory of Tyrannus biology is that all members of the genus become
> mostly or partly frugivorous during winter, and simply supplement their
> diet with insects when available. So, their survival in NYC may depend more
> on the availability of small fruits, for which they are competing with the
> many Robins and Starlings, than on the availability of insects.
>
> Hugh
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Orhan Birol 
> wrote:
>
> On Sunday I observed both.
>
> The Cassins was flycatching nonstop for the 10 minutes I was there.
>
> I think the row of low evergreens(boxwood?) on the west side of the
> community gardens and plenty of shelter in the gardens, may protect it from
> the cold.
>
> The Couches also has enough shelter in enclosed gardens, structures etc.
> The 10 minutes I was there, it called nonstop but never fed.
>
> I have no idea if the insects both feed on will survive tonight.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Orhan Birol
>
> Shelter Island
>
> --
>
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
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> Washington, D.C.
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RE: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

2015-01-08 Thread Will Raup 

Why should we get involved at all?  They are vagrants, moved out of their 
normal range for whatever reason.  They will either survive and return home, or 
they won't.  That's the way nature works.  I think we should stand back and let 
nature take its course and not get directly involved.
Will RaupGlenmont, NYDate: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 10:25:22 -0500
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
From: peter.co...@gmail.com
To: rc...@nyc.rr.com
CC: hdmcguinn...@gmail.com; orhanbir...@gmail.com; NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu

Good discussion,
Here is a Dusky-capped Flycatcher eating fruit/vegetables in the warm climate 
of El Salvador, but I also suspect the 2 kingbirds could use some good bugs in 
this weather. 
Perhaps it would be good too make an arrangement with a rehabber in case of 
emergency. Birds get sick fast. 
>From one who lived with birds, Peter
On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Rick  wrote:
True, and don’t forget the somewhat similar overwinter survival of the Rufous 
Hummingbird outside the American Museum of Natural History a few years back; 
the last posting I’m aware of for that bird was 3/11/2012.  2011-12 was a mild 
winter, admittedly, but hummers are hardly a model of cold tolerance (they lack 
down feathers, lose heat rapidly, and need to go into torpor overnight even in 
comparatively mild conditions to conserve energy).  In any case, don’t sell 
birds short, provided they have adequate good-quality food. (The question in my 
mind, aside from availability of small fruits and such, is whether or not they 
are an adequate substitute for higher-quality insect protein in severe cold, 
versus in milder traditional overwintering sites.) Rick From: 
bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Hugh McGuinness
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 7:18 AM
To: Orhan Birol
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances? My memory of 
Tyrannus biology is that all members of the genus become mostly or partly 
frugivorous during winter, and simply supplement their diet with insects when 
available. So, their survival in NYC may depend more on the availability of 
small fruits, for which they are competing with the many Robins and Starlings, 
than on the availability of insects.Hugh On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Orhan 
Birol  wrote:On Sunday I observed both.The Cassins was 
flycatching nonstop for the 10 minutes I was there.I think the row of low 
evergreens(boxwood?) on the west side of the community gardens and plenty of 
shelter in the gardens, may protect it from the cold.The Couches also has 
enough shelter in enclosed gardens, structures etc. The 10 minutes I was there, 
it called nonstop but never fed.I have no idea if the insects both feed on will 
survive tonight. Any thoughts?Orhan BirolShelter Island--NYSbirds-L List 
Info:Welcome and Basics Rules and Information Subscribe, Configuration and 
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Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

2015-01-08 Thread Peter Colen 
Good discussion,

Here is a Dusky-capped Flycatcher eating fruit/vegetables in the warm
climate of El Salvador, but I also suspect the 2 kingbirds could use some
good bugs in this weather.

Perhaps it would be good too make an arrangement with a rehabber in case of
emergency. Birds get sick fast.

>From one who lived with birds, Peter

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 7:47 AM, Rick  wrote:

> True, and don’t forget the somewhat similar overwinter survival of the
> Rufous Hummingbird outside the American Museum of Natural History a few
> years back; the last posting I’m aware of for that bird was 3/11/2012.
>
>
>
> 2011-12 was a mild winter, admittedly, but hummers are hardly a model of
> cold tolerance (they lack down feathers, lose heat rapidly, and need to go
> into torpor overnight even in comparatively mild conditions to conserve
> energy).
>
>
>
> In any case, don’t sell birds short, provided they have adequate
> good-quality food. (The question in my mind, aside from availability of
> small fruits and such, is whether or not they are an adequate substitute
> for higher-quality insect protein in severe cold, versus in milder
> traditional overwintering sites.)
>
>
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> *From:* bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:
> bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu] *On Behalf Of *Hugh McGuinness
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 08, 2015 7:18 AM
> *To:* Orhan Birol
> *Cc:* NYSBIRDS-L
> *Subject:* Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?
>
>
>
> My memory of Tyrannus biology is that all members of the genus become
> mostly or partly frugivorous during winter, and simply supplement their
> diet with insects when available. So, their survival in NYC may depend more
> on the availability of small fruits, for which they are competing with the
> many Robins and Starlings, than on the availability of insects.
>
> Hugh
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Orhan Birol 
> wrote:
>
> On Sunday I observed both.
>
> The Cassins was flycatching nonstop for the 10 minutes I was there.
>
> I think the row of low evergreens(boxwood?) on the west side of the
> community gardens and plenty of shelter in the gardens, may protect it from
> the cold.
>
> The Couches also has enough shelter in enclosed gardens, structures etc.
> The 10 minutes I was there, it called nonstop but never fed.
>
> I have no idea if the insects both feed on will survive tonight.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Orhan Birol
>
> Shelter Island
>
> --
>
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
>
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RE: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

2015-01-08 Thread Rick 
True, and don’t forget the somewhat similar overwinter survival of the Rufous 
Hummingbird outside the American Museum of Natural History a few years back; 
the last posting I’m aware of for that bird was 3/11/2012. 

 

2011-12 was a mild winter, admittedly, but hummers are hardly a model of cold 
tolerance (they lack down feathers, lose heat rapidly, and need to go into 
torpor overnight even in comparatively mild conditions to conserve energy). 

 

In any case, don’t sell birds short, provided they have adequate good-quality 
food. (The question in my mind, aside from availability of small fruits and 
such, is whether or not they are an adequate substitute for higher-quality 
insect protein in severe cold, versus in milder traditional overwintering 
sites.)

 

Rick

 

From: bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu 
[mailto:bounce-118683374-3714...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Hugh McGuinness
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 7:18 AM
To: Orhan Birol
Cc: NYSBIRDS-L
Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

 

My memory of Tyrannus biology is that all members of the genus become mostly or 
partly frugivorous during winter, and simply supplement their diet with insects 
when available. So, their survival in NYC may depend more on the availability 
of small fruits, for which they are competing with the many Robins and 
Starlings, than on the availability of insects.

Hugh

 

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Orhan Birol  wrote:

On Sunday I observed both.

The Cassins was flycatching nonstop for the 10 minutes I was there.

I think the row of low evergreens(boxwood?) on the west side of the community 
gardens and plenty of shelter in the gardens, may protect it from the cold.

The Couches also has enough shelter in enclosed gardens, structures etc. The 10 
minutes I was there, it called nonstop but never fed.

I have no idea if the insects both feed on will survive tonight. 

Any thoughts?

Orhan Birol

Shelter Island

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Re: [nysbirds-l] Cassins/Couches survival chances?

2015-01-08 Thread Hugh McGuinness 
My memory of Tyrannus biology is that all members of the genus become
mostly or partly frugivorous during winter, and simply supplement their
diet with insects when available. So, their survival in NYC may depend more
on the availability of small fruits, for which they are competing with the
many Robins and Starlings, than on the availability of insects.

Hugh

On Wed, Jan 7, 2015 at 10:40 PM, Orhan Birol  wrote:

> On Sunday I observed both.
> The Cassins was flycatching nonstop for the 10 minutes I was there.
> I think the row of low evergreens(boxwood?) on the west side of the
> community gardens and plenty of shelter in the gardens, may protect it from
> the cold.
> The Couches also has enough shelter in enclosed gardens, structures etc.
> The 10 minutes I was there, it called nonstop but never fed.
> I have no idea if the insects both feed on will survive tonight.
> Any thoughts?
> Orhan Birol
> Shelter Island
> --
> *NYSbirds-L List Info:*
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