RE: [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island
I think Andy is being very diplomatic here, but to question whether re-introduced Trumpeter Swans are established in the Great Lakes region is to contradict the conclusions of not only the Ontario committee, but also those of Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. If one accepts that established populations exist in the region, as all of those committees do, then it is illogical to use local establishment (i.e., fully established breeding populations in NYS) as the criterion for acceptance here; instead, simple occurrence of individuals attributable to those populations will do. This is how House Finch got onto the checklists of every state in the eastern US beyond its NY origins, and how Eurasian Collared-Dove irrupted out of Florida. Anyone can choose to question the conclusions of those other committees if they choose, but is it really appropriate for NYSARC to assume responsibility for deciding whether or when the populations in Ontario and elsewhere around the Great Lakes have satisfied NYSARC's definition of establishment? Shai Mitra Bay Shore From: Andy Guthrie [guthr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:18 AM To: Shaibal Mitra; NYSBIRDS (NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu) Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island As a member of the New York State Avian Records Committee (NYSARC), I can provide some insight into where the Committee currently stands on this issue. This is something that NYSARC has discussed annually for at least the past several years. It is true that the Ontario Bird Record Committee has added Trumpeter Swan to its list (in 2007) based on their opinion that the population there is self-sustaining, but in the opinion of NYSARC it's not clear that there has been a long enough period of self-sufficient breeding success to consider such a long-lived species truly established. Trumpeter Swans can live for 20-30 years, so many of the wild born birds are most likely still only first or second generation. The existing population in Ontario has been supplemented by continued introductions until as recently as 2006, and a large portion of the population has been sustained in winter by supplemental feeding programs. It's not clear how well the population will thrive without these human interventions. There is a continent-wide survey of Trumpeter Swan populations conducted every five years - the most recent in 2010, the results of which have not yet been published. NYSARC will use this as part of the continuing evaluation as to the current status of the species. NYSARC recently published a summary of the status of Trumpeter Swan in New York State, available here: http://www.nybirds.org/KBsearch/y2007v57n1/y2007v57n1p2-8sherony.pdf NYSARC's guidelines on determining whether a species is considered established in the state are available here: http://www.nybirds.org/KBsearch/y2007v57n1/y2007v57n1p9-11nysarc.pdf Cheers, Andy Guthrie Hamlin, NY On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Shaibal Mitra mailto:shaibal.mi...@csi.cuny.edu>> wrote: Given that this marked bird demonstrably originated from a population regarded as fully established, doesn't this occurrence constitute a legitimate record for New York State? From: bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu<mailto:bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu> [bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu<mailto:bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu>] on behalf of Angus Wilson [oceanwander...@gmail.com<mailto:oceanwander...@gmail.com>] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 12:57 PM To: NYSBIRDS-L Subject: [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island Trumpeter Swans are an increasingly familiar sight in western, central, and to some extent northern New York State, especially in the winter when parties of birds move down from Ontario in search of open water. Evidence suggests that the bulk of the NY population is derived one way or the other from the reintroduction program in Ontario. This ambitious project is based at Wye Marsh in Midland ON, which is near the southeastern corner of Georgia Bay on Lake Huron. Ontario raised swans have stayed to nest at a few spots within NYS and their offspring have spread further afield. Many of the Ontario birds are wing tagged (yellow with a unique three letter/number code) so their movements and survival can be easily tracked. There are other reintroduction programs (e.g. Ohio) but we await solid proof that any of their birds have reached into NYS. Unfortunately, few of the birds hatched in NYS have been marked and we have little information on their survival, movements or ability to nest successfully. Trumpeter Swan have remained very scarce in the eastern and southeastern portions of the state but this seems to be changing. On Monday, Bob Wilson found a wing-tagged Trumpeter Swan (number 'A60') at Agawam Lake in Southampton, Su
Re: [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island
As a member of the New York State Avian Records Committee (NYSARC), I can provide some insight into where the Committee currently stands on this issue. This is something that NYSARC has discussed annually for at least the past several years. It is true that the Ontario Bird Record Committee has added Trumpeter Swan to its list (in 2007) based on their opinion that the population there is self-sustaining, but in the opinion of NYSARC it's not clear that there has been a long enough period of self-sufficient breeding success to consider such a long-lived species truly established. Trumpeter Swans can live for 20-30 years, so many of the wild born birds are most likely still only first or second generation. The existing population in Ontario has been supplemented by continued introductions until as recently as 2006, and a large portion of the population has been sustained in winter by supplemental feeding programs. It's not clear how well the population will thrive without these human interventions. There is a continent-wide survey of Trumpeter Swan populations conducted every five years - the most recent in 2010, the results of which have not yet been published. NYSARC will use this as part of the continuing evaluation as to the current status of the species. NYSARC recently published a summary of the status of Trumpeter Swan in New York State, available here: http://www.nybirds.org/KBsearch/y2007v57n1/y2007v57n1p2-8sherony.pdf NYSARC's guidelines on determining whether a species is considered established in the state are available here: http://www.nybirds.org/KBsearch/y2007v57n1/y2007v57n1p9-11nysarc.pdf Cheers, Andy Guthrie Hamlin, NY On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Shaibal Mitra wrote: > Given that this marked bird demonstrably originated from a population > regarded as fully established, doesn't this occurrence constitute a > legitimate record for New York State? > -- > *From:* bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu [ > bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Angus Wilson [ > oceanwander...@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Wednesday, December 22, 2010 12:57 PM > *To:* NYSBIRDS-L > *Subject:* [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island > > Trumpeter Swans are an increasingly familiar sight in western, central, > and to some extent northern New York State, especially in the winter when > parties of birds move down from Ontario in search of open water. Evidence > suggests that the bulk of the NY population is derived one way or the other > from the reintroduction program in Ontario. This ambitious project is based > at Wye Marsh in Midland ON, which is near the southeastern corner of Georgia > Bay on Lake Huron. Ontario raised swans have stayed to nest at a few spots > within NYS and their offspring have spread further afield. Many of the > Ontario birds are wing tagged (yellow with a unique three letter/number > code) so their movements and survival can be easily tracked. There are other > reintroduction programs (e.g. Ohio) but we await solid proof that any of > their birds have reached into NYS. Unfortunately, few of the birds hatched > in NYS have been marked and we have little information on their survival, > movements or ability to nest successfully. > > Trumpeter Swan have remained very scarce in the eastern and southeastern > portions of the state but this seems to be changing. On Monday, Bob Wilson > found a wing-tagged Trumpeter Swan (number 'A60') at Agawam Lake in > Southampton, Suffolk County. This is 28 miles from Yaphank, also in Suffolk > Co, where two untagged Trumpeters have returned for another winter. > According to Harry Lumsden of the Ontario Trumpeter Swan Restoration > Program, 'A60' is a female that was hatched in 2009 by two tagged swans (981 > and E51). She was banded at Hillsburg ON (northwest of the Lake Ontario > shoreline) on 7 Oct 2009 and then resighted at several location within > southeastern Ontario during the following winter, spring and summer. In July > of this year, A60 was found injured in Rosemount ON, taken into rehab and > then released a short while later near Mansfield ON. There have been no > additional reports of this bird until now. Are A60 and the Yaphank pair > harbingers of changes to come? I would imagine the milder marine climate and > less extensive snowcover of Long Island might offer an attractive and > reliable wintering ground for these long-lived birds. Time will tell. > > NYSARC is actively monitoring the status of Trumpeter Swan in anticipation > of adding the species to the official New York State Checklist. Guidelines > have been established to help decide when a species can be considered > self-sustaining (remember the fate of Eurasian Skylark and European > Goldfinch) and in the Committee's opinion this has not been met quite yet. > Monitoring the movements of identifiable individuals such as A60 is > extremely useful in this process and NYSARC encourages submissions of marked >
Re: [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island
As a member of the New York State Avian Records Committee (NYSARC), I can provide some insight into where the Committee currently stands on this issue. This is something that NYSARC has discussed annually for at least the past several years. It is true that the Ontario Bird Record Committee has added Trumpeter Swan to its list (in 2007) based on their opinion that the population there is self-sustaining, but in the opinion of NYSARC it's not clear that there has been a long enough period of self-sufficient breeding success to consider such a long-lived species truly established. Trumpeter Swans can live for 20-30 years, so many of the wild born birds are most likely still only first or second generation. The existing population in Ontario has been supplemented by continued introductions until as recently as 2006, and a large portion of the population has been sustained in winter by supplemental feeding programs. It's not clear how well the population will thrive without these human interventions. There is a continent-wide survey of Trumpeter Swan populations conducted every five years - the most recent in 2010, the results of which have not yet been published. NYSARC will use this as part of the continuing evaluation as to the current status of the species. NYSARC recently published a summary of the status of Trumpeter Swan in New York State, available here: http://www.nybirds.org/KBsearch/y2007v57n1/y2007v57n1p2-8sherony.pdf NYSARC's guidelines on determining whether a species is considered established in the state are available here: http://www.nybirds.org/KBsearch/y2007v57n1/y2007v57n1p9-11nysarc.pdf Cheers, Andy Guthrie Hamlin, NY On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Shaibal Mitra shaibal.mi...@csi.cuny.eduwrote: Given that this marked bird demonstrably originated from a population regarded as fully established, doesn't this occurrence constitute a legitimate record for New York State? -- *From:* bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu [ bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Angus Wilson [ oceanwander...@gmail.com] *Sent:* Wednesday, December 22, 2010 12:57 PM *To:* NYSBIRDS-L *Subject:* [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island Trumpeter Swans are an increasingly familiar sight in western, central, and to some extent northern New York State, especially in the winter when parties of birds move down from Ontario in search of open water. Evidence suggests that the bulk of the NY population is derived one way or the other from the reintroduction program in Ontario. This ambitious project is based at Wye Marsh in Midland ON, which is near the southeastern corner of Georgia Bay on Lake Huron. Ontario raised swans have stayed to nest at a few spots within NYS and their offspring have spread further afield. Many of the Ontario birds are wing tagged (yellow with a unique three letter/number code) so their movements and survival can be easily tracked. There are other reintroduction programs (e.g. Ohio) but we await solid proof that any of their birds have reached into NYS. Unfortunately, few of the birds hatched in NYS have been marked and we have little information on their survival, movements or ability to nest successfully. Trumpeter Swan have remained very scarce in the eastern and southeastern portions of the state but this seems to be changing. On Monday, Bob Wilson found a wing-tagged Trumpeter Swan (number 'A60') at Agawam Lake in Southampton, Suffolk County. This is 28 miles from Yaphank, also in Suffolk Co, where two untagged Trumpeters have returned for another winter. According to Harry Lumsden of the Ontario Trumpeter Swan Restoration Program, 'A60' is a female that was hatched in 2009 by two tagged swans (981 and E51). She was banded at Hillsburg ON (northwest of the Lake Ontario shoreline) on 7 Oct 2009 and then resighted at several location within southeastern Ontario during the following winter, spring and summer. In July of this year, A60 was found injured in Rosemount ON, taken into rehab and then released a short while later near Mansfield ON. There have been no additional reports of this bird until now. Are A60 and the Yaphank pair harbingers of changes to come? I would imagine the milder marine climate and less extensive snowcover of Long Island might offer an attractive and reliable wintering ground for these long-lived birds. Time will tell. NYSARC is actively monitoring the status of Trumpeter Swan in anticipation of adding the species to the official New York State Checklist. Guidelines have been established to help decide when a species can be considered self-sustaining (remember the fate of Eurasian Skylark and European Goldfinch) and in the Committee's opinion this has not been met quite yet. Monitoring the movements of identifiable individuals such as A60 is extremely useful in this process and NYSARC encourages submissions of marked birds or birds from areas
RE: [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island
I think Andy is being very diplomatic here, but to question whether re-introduced Trumpeter Swans are established in the Great Lakes region is to contradict the conclusions of not only the Ontario committee, but also those of Illinois, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. If one accepts that established populations exist in the region, as all of those committees do, then it is illogical to use local establishment (i.e., fully established breeding populations in NYS) as the criterion for acceptance here; instead, simple occurrence of individuals attributable to those populations will do. This is how House Finch got onto the checklists of every state in the eastern US beyond its NY origins, and how Eurasian Collared-Dove irrupted out of Florida. Anyone can choose to question the conclusions of those other committees if they choose, but is it really appropriate for NYSARC to assume responsibility for deciding whether or when the populations in Ontario and elsewhere around the Great Lakes have satisfied NYSARC's definition of establishment? Shai Mitra Bay Shore From: Andy Guthrie [guthr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:18 AM To: Shaibal Mitra; NYSBIRDS (NYSBIRDS-L@cornell.edu) Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island As a member of the New York State Avian Records Committee (NYSARC), I can provide some insight into where the Committee currently stands on this issue. This is something that NYSARC has discussed annually for at least the past several years. It is true that the Ontario Bird Record Committee has added Trumpeter Swan to its list (in 2007) based on their opinion that the population there is self-sustaining, but in the opinion of NYSARC it's not clear that there has been a long enough period of self-sufficient breeding success to consider such a long-lived species truly established. Trumpeter Swans can live for 20-30 years, so many of the wild born birds are most likely still only first or second generation. The existing population in Ontario has been supplemented by continued introductions until as recently as 2006, and a large portion of the population has been sustained in winter by supplemental feeding programs. It's not clear how well the population will thrive without these human interventions. There is a continent-wide survey of Trumpeter Swan populations conducted every five years - the most recent in 2010, the results of which have not yet been published. NYSARC will use this as part of the continuing evaluation as to the current status of the species. NYSARC recently published a summary of the status of Trumpeter Swan in New York State, available here: http://www.nybirds.org/KBsearch/y2007v57n1/y2007v57n1p2-8sherony.pdf NYSARC's guidelines on determining whether a species is considered established in the state are available here: http://www.nybirds.org/KBsearch/y2007v57n1/y2007v57n1p9-11nysarc.pdf Cheers, Andy Guthrie Hamlin, NY On Wed, Dec 22, 2010 at 3:13 PM, Shaibal Mitra shaibal.mi...@csi.cuny.edumailto:shaibal.mi...@csi.cuny.edu wrote: Given that this marked bird demonstrably originated from a population regarded as fully established, doesn't this occurrence constitute a legitimate record for New York State? From: bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edumailto:bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edumailto:bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Angus Wilson [oceanwander...@gmail.commailto:oceanwander...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 12:57 PM To: NYSBIRDS-L Subject: [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island Trumpeter Swans are an increasingly familiar sight in western, central, and to some extent northern New York State, especially in the winter when parties of birds move down from Ontario in search of open water. Evidence suggests that the bulk of the NY population is derived one way or the other from the reintroduction program in Ontario. This ambitious project is based at Wye Marsh in Midland ON, which is near the southeastern corner of Georgia Bay on Lake Huron. Ontario raised swans have stayed to nest at a few spots within NYS and their offspring have spread further afield. Many of the Ontario birds are wing tagged (yellow with a unique three letter/number code) so their movements and survival can be easily tracked. There are other reintroduction programs (e.g. Ohio) but we await solid proof that any of their birds have reached into NYS. Unfortunately, few of the birds hatched in NYS have been marked and we have little information on their survival, movements or ability to nest successfully. Trumpeter Swan have remained very scarce in the eastern and southeastern portions of the state but this seems to be changing. On Monday, Bob Wilson found a wing-tagged Trumpeter Swan (number 'A60') at Agawam Lake in Southampton, Suffolk
RE: [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island
Given that this marked bird demonstrably originated from a population regarded as fully established, doesn't this occurrence constitute a legitimate record for New York State? From: bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Angus Wilson [oceanwander...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 12:57 PM To: NYSBIRDS-L Subject: [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island Trumpeter Swans are an increasingly familiar sight in western, central, and to some extent northern New York State, especially in the winter when parties of birds move down from Ontario in search of open water. Evidence suggests that the bulk of the NY population is derived one way or the other from the reintroduction program in Ontario. This ambitious project is based at Wye Marsh in Midland ON, which is near the southeastern corner of Georgia Bay on Lake Huron. Ontario raised swans have stayed to nest at a few spots within NYS and their offspring have spread further afield. Many of the Ontario birds are wing tagged (yellow with a unique three letter/number code) so their movements and survival can be easily tracked. There are other reintroduction programs (e.g. Ohio) but we await solid proof that any of their birds have reached into NYS. Unfortunately, few of the birds hatched in NYS have been marked and we have little information on their survival, movements or ability to nest successfully. Trumpeter Swan have remained very scarce in the eastern and southeastern portions of the state but this seems to be changing. On Monday, Bob Wilson found a wing-tagged Trumpeter Swan (number 'A60') at Agawam Lake in Southampton, Suffolk County. This is 28 miles from Yaphank, also in Suffolk Co, where two untagged Trumpeters have returned for another winter. According to Harry Lumsden of the Ontario Trumpeter Swan Restoration Program, 'A60' is a female that was hatched in 2009 by two tagged swans (981 and E51). She was banded at Hillsburg ON (northwest of the Lake Ontario shoreline) on 7 Oct 2009 and then resighted at several location within southeastern Ontario during the following winter, spring and summer. In July of this year, A60 was found injured in Rosemount ON, taken into rehab and then released a short while later near Mansfield ON. There have been no additional reports of this bird until now. Are A60 and the Yaphank pair harbingers of changes to come? I would imagine the milder marine climate and less extensive snowcover of Long Island might offer an attractive and reliable wintering ground for these long-lived birds. Time will tell. NYSARC is actively monitoring the status of Trumpeter Swan in anticipation of adding the species to the official New York State Checklist. Guidelines have been established to help decide when a species can be considered self-sustaining (remember the fate of Eurasian Skylark and European Goldfinch) and in the Committee's opinion this has not been met quite yet. Monitoring the movements of identifiable individuals such as A60 is extremely useful in this process and NYSARC encourages submissions of marked birds or birds from areas where Trumpeter Swans remain very rare. -- Angus Wilson New York City & The Springs, NY, USA http://birdingtotheend.blogspot.com/ Think green before you print this email. -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html 3) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
RE: [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island
Given that this marked bird demonstrably originated from a population regarded as fully established, doesn't this occurrence constitute a legitimate record for New York State? From: bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-7597094-3714...@list.cornell.edu] on behalf of Angus Wilson [oceanwander...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 12:57 PM To: NYSBIRDS-L Subject: [nysbirds-l] Trumpeter Swans discover eastern Long Island Trumpeter Swans are an increasingly familiar sight in western, central, and to some extent northern New York State, especially in the winter when parties of birds move down from Ontario in search of open water. Evidence suggests that the bulk of the NY population is derived one way or the other from the reintroduction program in Ontario. This ambitious project is based at Wye Marsh in Midland ON, which is near the southeastern corner of Georgia Bay on Lake Huron. Ontario raised swans have stayed to nest at a few spots within NYS and their offspring have spread further afield. Many of the Ontario birds are wing tagged (yellow with a unique three letter/number code) so their movements and survival can be easily tracked. There are other reintroduction programs (e.g. Ohio) but we await solid proof that any of their birds have reached into NYS. Unfortunately, few of the birds hatched in NYS have been marked and we have little information on their survival, movements or ability to nest successfully. Trumpeter Swan have remained very scarce in the eastern and southeastern portions of the state but this seems to be changing. On Monday, Bob Wilson found a wing-tagged Trumpeter Swan (number 'A60') at Agawam Lake in Southampton, Suffolk County. This is 28 miles from Yaphank, also in Suffolk Co, where two untagged Trumpeters have returned for another winter. According to Harry Lumsden of the Ontario Trumpeter Swan Restoration Program, 'A60' is a female that was hatched in 2009 by two tagged swans (981 and E51). She was banded at Hillsburg ON (northwest of the Lake Ontario shoreline) on 7 Oct 2009 and then resighted at several location within southeastern Ontario during the following winter, spring and summer. In July of this year, A60 was found injured in Rosemount ON, taken into rehab and then released a short while later near Mansfield ON. There have been no additional reports of this bird until now. Are A60 and the Yaphank pair harbingers of changes to come? I would imagine the milder marine climate and less extensive snowcover of Long Island might offer an attractive and reliable wintering ground for these long-lived birds. Time will tell. NYSARC is actively monitoring the status of Trumpeter Swan in anticipation of adding the species to the official New York State Checklist. Guidelines have been established to help decide when a species can be considered self-sustaining (remember the fate of Eurasian Skylark and European Goldfinch) and in the Committee's opinion this has not been met quite yet. Monitoring the movements of identifiable individuals such as A60 is extremely useful in this process and NYSARC encourages submissions of marked birds or birds from areas where Trumpeter Swans remain very rare. -- Angus Wilson New York City The Springs, NY, USA http://birdingtotheend.blogspot.com/ Think green before you print this email. -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html 3) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
