Re: Building a single Hg repository
On 29.06.2011 05:27, Greg Stein wrote: On Mon, Jun 27, 2011 at 05:42, Jens-Heiner Rechtienjhrecht...@web.de wrote: On 06/27/2011 01:08 AM, Greg Stein wrote: ... Merging them in hg is easy, just pull/merge. But ... we are talking about a hundred or so CWSs here. In all kinds of readiness states. http://hg.services.openoffice.org If we merge them now, we won't have a working OOo for a long time. Now, we could skip the merge part and leave the heads dangling. Hg heads are kinda That's what I was thinking. And then map these dangling heads to individual branches in svn. anonymous branches in Mercurial. Don't know if a repository with multiple heads can be converted to SVN. Probably quite tricky (the tool would need to generate sensible names for the different heads). If the converter tool doesn't have the feature, it seems pretty straight-forward to add code to either provide a name mapping for them, or auto-generate names. The anonymous heads could be marked with the cws name as a mercurial bookmark, just after the individual pull step. That way the information is at least already in the all-in-one hg repository. A smart converter could use them to generate svn branch names. Something along this lines: $ cdall-in-one-respository $ hg pull ../cws/os151 ... the latest changeset of CWS os151 is now tip $ hg bookmark -r tip os151 $ hg bookmarks os151 276718:f4d674e63830 Great. Thanks for the pointers. I'm going to start updating the single-hg.sh (see tools/dev/) with this stuff. I'd appreciate if you could keep an eye on the commits and correct me where I stray. I've never used Mercurial before. I've read up on the difference between: tags, branches, local tags, and bookmarks. I agree that it seems bookmarks are appropriate for this purpose. We could technically use a tag since no further work would be done in this single repository. However, we may be able to use the bookmarks as an indicator for branch construction (vs a static copy in tags/). I suspect that a lot of work will happen on the Convert extension to Mercurial to manage this transition :-) One more thing... I cloned one of the CWSs (ab78), and it was 2.8 Gb. My clone of DEV300 is 3.5 Gb. Is the size of that CWS typical? There are about 250 CWSs hosted at OOo. If the average holds, I would need to clone 700 Gb of material down to my system to perform the integration. Am I missing something? Is there a better way? etc. As your local hg repo is just an intermediate step from where you export to svn, you could pull all cws into one repository. The majority of the different repositories (master or cws) consists of almost the same changesets, so pulling into one repo will save a lot of disk space. This has been tried by several people and it worked for them. Someone has created a Mercurial extension that makes this process pretty easy: http://mercurial.selenic.com/wiki/BranchmirrorExtension As some of our cws are based on the DEV300 repo and some are based on the OOo340 repo, you will need two repos or someone needs to copy the cws from dev300 to ooo340 before. Regards, Mathias
Re: Getting to our first build
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 06:23, Michael Stahl m...@openoffice.org wrote: On 29.06.2011 11:58, Greg Stein wrote: ... I don't think we want patches. I continue to believe we want a single Hg repository with everything, and we convert that to Subversion, and then load it into svn.apache.org. if it is possible to convert HG heads to SVN branches, that would be the way to go. i still think it makes sense to go a step further and actually merge all finished CWSes into OOO340 using HG first, because that is by far the easiest way and doesn't have any technical pitfalls. Right. We can let Hg tie together all of the branching that was done. Then, we can port that over to svn for loading into the repository at the ASF. There are about 2000 merge commits in the main Hg repository (ie. revs with two parents). These will need some special care. I haven't thought much on the problem on how to represent these in svn. I don't think it is a problem... we just need to ensure that svn:mergeinfo is set properly. Of course, the CWSs probably have more merge commits, but once we have a pattern established, then we'll be fine. I do note that the primary Hg repository has only one head (tip). And the one CWS that I looked at was similar. We may not have a problem with dangling/anonymous heads. re: OOO340 in your later email. Interesting. I've seen calls for grabbing content from a different tag/tip/branch/whatever. It seems that we could simply pull all branches and then sort out which we'd like to call trunk in the svn repo. It seems that OOO340 has the most up-to-date changes on it, so we'd make that trunk. Cheers, -g
Re: Building a single Hg repository (was: An svn question)
On 29.06.2011 12:17, Greg Stein wrote: On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 05:04, Michael Stahlm...@openoffice.org wrote: On 29.06.2011 05:27, Greg Stein wrote: but HG supports hardlinks between repositories (in newer versions even on win32), so you can hg clone the master on the same filesystem and then pull in the CWS, and it will be _much_ faster and take _much_ less Yah. This is awesome, and will make pulling CWSs much quicker. I'll bake that into our scripts. additional space (in fact, less than the useful-only-for-diff pristine source in a SVN working copy would take). Um. I see kind of a pot shot at svn here. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, rather than get cranky. The local pristines (beyond just diff) mean that commits can send deltas, rather than the whole file. And when you're working with 4G files (oh, wait! Hg can't deal with files that size!) then sending a delta is very important. i think usually HG stores and transmits binary diffs for changes. but you're right, SVN isn't totally useless: the remaining niche where SVN actually has an advantage over modern DSCMs is for versioning huge binary files: you don't want to have all revisions of those in a working copy. we worked around that limitation by storing our binary blobs (i.e., external library tarballs) on a FTP server (see fetch_tarballs.sh). oh, just noticed it doesn't include all the l10n repositories. i think we need those as well. with Branchmirror probably a second config file is required, because l10n is a separate master repo. (since DEV300m101 a master/CWS consists of 2 repositories, one for all the bulky translations, one for the stuff i work on :) I don't understand this part. DEV300 is the master repo, right? Are you saying that there is a *separate* repository for the l10n data? yes, exactly. the l10n stuff has huge changes, and developers don't ever need it, so we complained about all this wasted hard disk space/bandwidth, and now finally releng gave us 2 master repos :) these are the master l10n repos: master_l10n/DEV300 master_l10n/OOO340 for CWS it looks like this (guess most of these won't contain changes): cws_l10n/sw34bf06 -- I suppose I should learn Lisp, but it seems so foreign. -- Paul Graham, Nov 1983
Re: Getting to our first build
2011.06.29. 12:23 keltezéssel, Michael Stahl írta: On 29.06.2011 11:58, Greg Stein wrote: On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 04:26, Mathias Bauermathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: On 29.06.2011 00:07, Greg Stein wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 15:31, Rob Weirapa...@robweir.comwrote: Let me summarize what I'm hearing the initial steps then are. 1) We take the OOo source code with tag OOO340_m1 from hg.services.openoffice.org, including the full history, and convert that into a SVN repository, e.g.,: hg convert --dest-type svn hgreponame svnreponame Who does this? Is this something that can be done remotely, or do we need an Oracle admin to do this for us? We would do this. We have all the access that we need (open source, yay!) I've started on a script to create this (local) Hg repository. See tools/dev/single-hg.sh for my first bits. I'm trying it out now, but it is probably going to take a while to run :-P (I also have no idea about CWSs) Did you clone the repo at http://hg.services.openoffice.org/OOO340? This is the one we should use. As you can see from the script, it is designed around DEV300. I thought we wanted the latest development branch? actually no CWS was integrated on the development DEV300 after the release OOO340 was branched off, while on OOO340 release relevant CWSes were integrated. so OOO340 contains the latest and greatest stuff. Pulling the CWS should be faster: create a local clone of your existing repo for each cws and pull from the CWS repro at hg.services.ooo. This will pull only the change sets not in your local repo and create a second head revision in it. This revision could be moved over to svn or you could create a patch from it against whatever version that is on the hg repo. Ah! That's and awesome improvement. Thanks. I'll incorporate that into the scripting. I don't think we want patches. I continue to believe we want a single Hg repository with everything, and we convert that to Subversion, and then load it into svn.apache.org. if it is possible to convert HG heads to SVN branches, that would be the way to go. i still think it makes sense to go a step further and actually merge all finished CWSes into OOO340 using HG first, because that is by far the easiest way and doesn't have any technical pitfalls. This will not good in database part of OOo, the cws hsqldb19 finished and waits for dev300 integration toward OOo 3.5. it is contain hsqldb 2.x.x database engine which is incompatible (convert all data into new version whic is not reversable) to presently used 1.8.0.10 version. Then the new version file opens in older version of OOo, but not usable, warning came up to use newer version of OOo. If you merge it it will cause mess. The using merging cws hsqldb needs to discussed in project in later time. It is cause incompatibilities, but the hsqldb 2.x.x has more features which is good for database users. Zoltan
Re: Getting to our first build
On 29.06.2011 12:53, Reizinger Zoltán wrote: 2011.06.29. 12:23 keltezéssel, Michael Stahl írta: i still think it makes sense to go a step further and actually merge all finished CWSes into OOO340 using HG first, because that is by far the easiest way and doesn't have any technical pitfalls. This will not good in database part of OOo, the cws hsqldb19 finished and waits for dev300 integration toward OOo 3.5. it is contain hsqldb 2.x.x database engine which is incompatible (convert all data into new version whic is not reversable) to presently used 1.8.0.10 version. Then the new version file opens in older version of OOo, but not usable, warning came up to use newer version of OOo. If you merge it it will cause mess. The using merging cws hsqldb needs to discussed in project in later time. It is cause incompatibilities, but the hsqldb 2.x.x has more features which is good for database users. Indeed Michael's suggestion to merge finished CWS first is too much: we should create branches for them in svn, but merging must be decided on for each CWS individually. There may be other reasons why a CWS shouldn't be merged to master, e.g. because the work on it is still not finished and it will either break the master or introduce horrible bugs. Thanks for the heads-up regarding CWS hsqld19. Regards, Mathias
Re: Category B licenses
On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton dennis.hamil...@acm.org wrote: For the magical case of binaries that are not built from the Apache code, what occurred to me first were shared libraries (.DLL or .SO, as well as CLASSPATH goodies and .JAR files) and also executables that could be operated silently from within the Apache-code built software (crude example: how TortoiseSVN installs SVN in some manner and which it is a form of shell for). Another example happens to be over font files, something which has had some folks exercised on LibreOffice lists recently. IMHO this is an area of shared interest where we should definitely be talking and working with those folks IMO this is essential a tooling problem. For projects as large and complex as office, comprehension of the code base, the build and assembly starts to become a major issue. A finely grained, loosely coupled component structure with a simple license for each component goes some way towards solving this problem by allowing each component to be small enough to be understood. But this still leaves tooling gap for a comprehension and verification for the assembled artifact shipped to end users. If the external material is statically linked or otherwise integrated into the Apache code in its build, I think there are concerns, of course I tend to think in terms of build and assembly as different activities requiring different tools and techniques. AIUI (from comments earlier in this thread) OOo already uses a compositional scripting layer for assembly which then choreographs the build. IMHO it's not such a long journey from that towards a compositional assembly tool that automates and reports the license and provenance wrangling. and with comingling in source compilations in some way even more-so. Mixing licenses in source causes major difficulties for developers and downstream consumers. Most successful FOSS projects tend to adopt a homogeneous regime. So FOSS tends to factor along license lines. One way to look at the Apache categories is that they specify which licenses are sufficiently compatible with the Apache License to be included within the source. My suggestion for here (ooo-dev) is that we focus on how to minimize the exposed surface to run-time access to non-Apache resources (that might be co-deployed) wherever we can, so that nothing is comingled into the build of Apache-source executable or library code itself. AIUI to ship artifacts for end users, executables are going to need to be assembled from a complex mixture of resources. Going forward, IMO separating these concerns by isolating the assembly is likely to make everything work more smoothly. And even then maybe we need to go to legal-discuss. Apache policy is evolutionary. OOo brings some new challenges and this means refinement is likely. It's best to start talking as early as possible... Robert
Re: Hauling in third-party code (was: Category B licenses)
On 06/29/2011 01:19 AM, Greg Stein wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 16:10, Michael Stahlm...@openoffice.org wrote: hi all, one thing that is currently unclear to me is whether/how Apache OOo may depend on code licensed under a Category B license. the most prominent specimen of this category is the MPL. first, about OOo: how we currently build external libraries: the external libraries are not checked into the HG repository; they reside (as source tarballs) on some FTP server. the repository contains things to build the external library: * a fetch_tarballs.sh script, which is executed as part of bootstrap and downloads all the tarballs * for every external library, a module, containing: - patches to fix bugs that affect OOo - patches to backport security fixes (taken from upstream) - patches to make it build in our environment (especially on windows) - more bizarre patches :) - a makefile.mk to drive the build: call configure with proper flags, then make, ... - dependency metadata (prj directory) during the build, the downloaded external library tarball is unpacked, built, and the binaries and headers copied to a global directory. one thing should be perfectly clear: if there is an external C/C++ library that builds in our environment on all platforms without needing to be patched, then i haven't seen it; i don't think such a creature exists. of course for all the external modules it's possible to tell configure to not build the module in OOo but instead use the library on the system (which in many cases of course only works on GNU/Linux or *BSD). This process sounds exactly like what the buildout tool[1] is designed to handle. It seems like a good opportunity to move from OOo's homegrown system to something that is supported, documented, and maintained by others. The system we currently have is effective - and it works now. I agree that there are better and more standard ways to do this but I guess it's not our first priority, maybe not even our second. It's a whole lot of stuff and it has to work on Windows as well. Introducing something as buildtools will be the perfect time sink for someone overhauling the build process. And I would hate it if the change would stop somewhere in between - I've seen many tries to standardize stuff in OOo which ended prematurely leaving us with *two* ways to do things. It's very easy to underestimate the effort given the sheer size of OOo. Of course if someone is willing to do this, that would be great. But it takes a lot of commitment to see the changes through. Reviewing those patches would also be good. Try and get more of them upstream. For example, I saw some patches to Neon in there which should get pushed upstream, and also move to the latest version of Neon. Always a good idea to do this, but if I remember right especially neon was occasionally unresponsive regarding some of our patches. But I guess every downstream project complains about upstream being unresponsive :-). But I know that we've updated neon support regularly over the last years. Heiner -- Jens-Heiner Rechtien
Re: Introduction
Welcome to the project, Mouette. It is good to see that we have a Solaris expert here, to help with that port. We also have BSD members, and of course Windows and Linux. But do we have a Mac programmer on board? -Rob On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:47 PM, L'oiseau de mer oiseau...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, I am Mouette Yang, and i also is a OpenOffice and Solaris user. I hope i can help to build OpenOffice in the Solaris x86 platform and package it. And Testing. I am happy anout this project can continuing.
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
IMHO you can do such little changes without to ask. We should extended the languages to Russian (due to Cyrillic letters) and Portuguese resp. Brazilian-Portuguese (due to long compared to other languages). Marcus Am 06/29/2011 01:46 PM, schrieb Kazunari Hirano: As we see Plan Matrix, https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning Build-Translate-Plan will be one of our first jobs :) https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan Can you read my comments on the page above? Can I delete the previous list and start the new list?
Re: Merge points in Hg repository (was: An svn question)
Hi Greg, On 06/29/2011 07:14 AM, Greg Stein wrote: On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 08:48, Jens-Heiner Rechtienjhrecht...@web.de wrote: On 06/24/2011 09:07 AM, Stephan Bergmann wrote: ... Which gets me thinking of the next topic, how exactly to import the current OOo Hg repository into SVN. While Hg has the concept that a revision can have two parents (so the revision graph need not be After my investigation into Hg, I've found out about this. The two-parent concept is nice. Subversion *does* have merge-tracking now, so it understands when you merge another item into the working copy's parent, and it will record that fact. I will note that the primary Hg repository has 2005 of these merge commits. These merge commits will need to be handled during the Hg-svn conversion. I don't know if the code does this today. linear), SVN only supports a single parent per revision (so has a strictly linear graph). Import of Hg into SVN will have to map the non-linear graph to a linear one. I think an automatic approach (which is the only feasible one) in general can only work as follows: Walking backwards from the head (assuming there is only one), transfer the current revision to SVN and proceed to its first parent (if there is one; otherwise we reached the bottom and are done). Since CWS have (hopefully) always been merged into the master as the second parent of a merge revision (if a merge was necessary), this will loose the detailed history of most CWS. (And if a CWS ever got merged as the first parent of a merge revision, and master as second, we will loose history big time.) Most of the time the CWS is the second parent. Unfortunately there is no way that we can rely on that. I'm almost certain that there are cases where first and second parent are switched. Couldn't we just set a bookmark for the DEV300 tip? Or use one of the tags? I don't understand how merging CWS's with strange parenting would cause us a problem. I'm a Mercurial n00b, so maybe I'm missing something? So from a history-preserving point of view, moving from Hg to SVN is bad. Or am I missing something? Actually I wouldn't even try to do it with a history preserving approach. Just import it flat and have a hg repository on the side for reference. That That is incredibly difficult for developers who would like to explore. For researchers look at our code. For people trying to find why something exists. ... any number of reasons. It seems that we can bring over history. Maybe some more work, but it is a one-time cost compared to the many, MANY years that OOo will exist. way we get rid of all problems regarding broken/missing/wrong copyrights of old files. If there ever was a time to do a clean start, it's now. Remember, we did the same thing when we open sourced OOo back in 2000. And I've seen people wishing that all the history was present. We can do it! No reason to give up :-) If it's possible than it would be great, no doubt! It's just that I have done one SCM migration to many over the last years and know how difficult it can be to get the details right. BTW, you do know that the old SVN repository which was the basis of the 2009 migration to HG is still online? You can find it here: http://svn.services.openoffice.org/ooo/ Only /trunk was migrated, we used 'hg convert'. Heiner -- Jens-Heiner Rechtien
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
It might be useful to make a distinction between two things: 1) What is needed to have a successful first build? (https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan) 2) What is needed to have a successful first release? (https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Release-Translate-Plan) For a first build, I think our main task will be to ensure that we didn't break anything by moving over from Oracle's servers to Apache servers. We want to define a simple set of tests that could be done after the initial move. But we would also want to run these tests on a regular basis,even daily. At work we call these smoke tests. I don't know what the equivalent name is for OOo. So what is the easiest test that we can do to verify that localization is not broken in OOo? For a public release, this will be much more complicated. -Rob On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: IMHO you can do such little changes without to ask. We should extended the languages to Russian (due to Cyrillic letters) and Portuguese resp. Brazilian-Portuguese (due to long compared to other languages). Marcus Am 06/29/2011 01:46 PM, schrieb Kazunari Hirano: As we see Plan Matrix, https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning Build-Translate-Plan will be one of our first jobs :) https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan Can you read my comments on the page above? Can I delete the previous list and start the new list?
Re: Introduction: Wolf Halton
Hi Rob, I do network security, and I am learning to do application security. I coauthored a penetration testing book for entry-level security people in 2007. Last year I published some preliminary work on cloud security. Wolf On Jun 29, 2011 8:18 AM, Rob Weir apa...@robweir.com wrote: Hi Wolf, Welcome to the project. What kind of security work do you do? One thing we have not discussed on this list, is security. As we all know, Microsoft Office has been a vector for security exploits for many years, with macro viruses, etc. They presence of mobile code in the form of macros, embedded in documents that are mailed around, combined with the ubiquity of MS Office, this makes it an attractive target. If we're successful with Apache OpenOffice, and it grows to have a much larger market share, then it is reasonable to expect that it will also become attractive to crackers. We should be planning for this, and make such enhancements in OO that will help users (and corporate IT departments) manage these risks. Regards, -Rob On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 12:22 AM, Wolf Halton wolf.hal...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Y'all! I have been a user and evangelist of openoffice.org since star office appeared. I am a security specialist, linux engineer and tech school instructor. I develop and manage web sites as well, and am a python and web programmer. Wolf Halton
Re: Building a single Hg repository (was: An svn question)
On 06/29/2011 12:17 PM, Greg Stein wrote: [... snip ...] Um. I see kind of a pot shot at svn here. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, rather than get cranky. The local pristines (beyond just diff) mean that commits can send deltas, rather than the whole file. And when you're working with 4G files (oh, wait! Hg can't deal with files that size!) then sending a delta is very important. Of course, anyone who actually commits 4G files to a *source* code repository should be tarred and feathered. [... snip ...] Heiner -- Jens-Heiner Rechtien
Re: Introduction
Welcome, Mouette! Mouette is a very active, hard-working, hardcore member of our local Taiwan OpenOffice.org community. He is also an active member of the OpenSolaris community. It is very nice to have him here. Mouette is working on OpenOffice.org Solaris/OpenSolaris port now. I am looking forward to his contribution. And about the MacOS expert: I think Eric Bachard from EducOOo is also on this list, isn't he yet? He is the one that forwarded me the information to join the list of initial committers. He is the first OpenOffice.org MacOS porter, and had successfully ported OpenOffice.org onto OLPC SugerOS. He would be of our great help. On 2011/06/29 20:13, Rob Weir said: Welcome to the project, Mouette. It is good to see that we have a Solaris expert here, to help with that port. We also have BSD members, and of course Windows and Linux. But do we have a Mac programmer on board? -Rob On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:47 PM, L'oiseau de mer oiseau...@gmail.com wrote: Dear all, I am Mouette Yang, and i also is a OpenOffice and Solaris user. I hope i can help to build OpenOffice in the Solaris x86 platform and package it. And Testing. I am happy anout this project can continuing. -- Best regards, imacat ^_*' ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw PGP Key http://www.imacat.idv.tw/me/pgpkey.asc Woman's Voice News: http://www.wov.idv.tw/ Tavern IMACAT's http://www.imacat.idv.tw/ Woman in FOSS in Taiwan http://wofoss.blogspot.com/ OpenOffice.org http://www.openoffice.org/ EducOO/OOo4Kids Taiwan http://www.educoo.tw/ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Right. Maybe we should split this into 2 parts: 1. The very first build(s) to handle fixes for build breaker: IMHO here it should be enough to have en-US only 2. If this is done the next builds can be also used for looking into the localizations. We had the following set of languages for our developer milestones (DEV300 and OOO340): - English (US) as master language - German due to historical reasons and we had the most testers here - French for the same reason IMHO and long strings - Japanese due the CJK characters and to test RTL writing - Russian due to Cyrillic charachters - Arabic due to the characters and to test bidi writing So, we could stick with this (or maybe exchange the one or other language if is no volunteer to test at the moments, maybe French -- Brazilian-Portuguese ?). --- 3. Tests for release builds are out of scope at the moment, but more language tests the better. BTW: We have also smoke tests. If I'm not wrong these should be included in the source code. Marcus Am 06/29/2011 02:35 PM, schrieb Rob Weir: It might be useful to make a distinction between two things: 1) What is needed to have a successful first build? (https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan) 2) What is needed to have a successful first release? (https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Release-Translate-Plan) For a first build, I think our main task will be to ensure that we didn't break anything by moving over from Oracle's servers to Apache servers. We want to define a simple set of tests that could be done after the initial move. But we would also want to run these tests on a regular basis,even daily. At work we call these smoke tests. I don't know what the equivalent name is for OOo. So what is the easiest test that we can do to verify that localization is not broken in OOo? For a public release, this will be much more complicated. -Rob On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: IMHO you can do such little changes without to ask. We should extended the languages to Russian (due to Cyrillic letters) and Portuguese resp. Brazilian-Portuguese (due to long compared to other languages). Marcus Am 06/29/2011 01:46 PM, schrieb Kazunari Hirano: As we see Plan Matrix, https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning Build-Translate-Plan will be one of our first jobs :) https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan Can you read my comments on the page above? Can I delete the previous list and start the new list?
Re: Category B licenses
Robert Burrell Donkin wrote on Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:53:43 +0100:
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 12:26 AM, Daniel Shahaf d...@daniel.shahaf.name
wrote:
Robert Burrell Donkin wrote on Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 22:24:07 +0100:
Conventionally at Apache, the source release is canonical and is
identical to the tagged source in version control.
FWIW, at Subversion the tagged release and the tarball differ by some
autogenerated files. ('configure' and SWIG headers are present in the
tarball but need to be generated when building from the tag)
Yep :-)
I've seen the same discrepancy in build procedure (from svn v. from
tarball) elsewhere.
source release and binary release are just names which allow us to
agree rules and conventions and to express distinctions and
similarities.
Including resources generated by some process from source means that
the rules for binary releases apply, not source release. This is
useful but confusing and often needs explanation (patches for
documentation gratefully accepted over at legal-discuss).
Don't call them binary releases then, call them Releases that include
files that were machine-generated from other files?
(doing some acrobatics to account for projects that, say, add their
generated 'configure' files to revision control)
Using other words, including resources under some licenses in an
aggregate binary release shipped is fine but these shouldn't be in
version control when the source release is cut.
Robert
Re: Please add your name to the contributors page
You need to commit the change after editing. You can either click on the Commit link after editing, or click on the Quick Commit button during your editing session. What commit does is take your changes and post them to the subversion repository, which will trigger a staging build. If you are happy with the results of the staging build, you may then publish those results to the live site by clicking on the Publish Site link. - Original Message From: Eike Rathke o...@erack.de To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 9:52:35 AM Subject: Re: Please add your name to the contributors page Hi Rob, On Tuesday, 2011-06-28 15:03:03 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: This is an essential project skill, so if you have not already studied that page, it would be good to take this as an opportunity to pick up this skill. If you are a programmer, comfortable with Subversion, the the command line instructions are easy. If you would prefer the web interface, then skip down to where it says Editing in the browser. Seems I'm too dumb to operate a browser.. I edited the page using the ASF CMS bookmarklet, committed the change and hit the Publish Site link, but yet my change isn't visible on the page. It shows up perfectly in the Edit view. Guess I should stick with command line tools.. Eike -- PGP/OpenPGP/GnuPG encrypted mail preferred in all private communication. Key ID: 0x293C05FD - 997A 4C60 CE41 0149 0DB3 9E96 2F1A D073 293C 05FD
Re: Naming of trunk and feature branches
Am 06/29/2011 03:45 PM, schrieb Greg Stein: Yes, very much clearer. Thanks! :-) Whatever ever we decide on the name, it will be Apache $something. We know that much, but I don't think the community has (yet) tried to figure out what $something should be. OpenOffice? OpenOffice.org? Office? ... or something entirely new like Apache Alfred. From there, I think we can figure out the public short names. Until now there was no reason to think about a new name. And I doubt that we want to give up the established name OpenOffice. If at all we could get rid of the .org extension but let's see. Marcus
Re: Please add your name to the contributors page
Am 06/29/2011 03:52 PM, schrieb Eike Rathke: On Tuesday, 2011-06-28 15:03:03 -0400, Rob Weir wrote: This is an essential project skill, so if you have not already studied that page, it would be good to take this as an opportunity to pick up this skill. If you are a programmer, comfortable with Subversion, the the command line instructions are easy. If you would prefer the web interface, then skip down to where it says Editing in the browser. Seems I'm too dumb to operate a browser.. I edited the page using the ASF CMS bookmarklet, committed the change and hit the Publish Site link, but yet my change isn't visible on the page. It shows up perfectly in the Edit view. Guess I should stick with command line tools.. Maybe you want to give your browser another chance with this howto: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/edit-cms.html
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 09:11, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Right. Maybe we should split this into 2 parts: 1. The very first build(s) to handle fixes for build breaker: IMHO here it should be enough to have en-US only For better or worse, the ASF is US-centric, so this makes sense. For a smoke test I'd still do at least one other language. One possible error is that a programmer hard codes a UI string rather than using a resource file. If we just test builds with the the English resources we would not catch this. But since the translation files tend to lag the builds, I wonder if some form of pseudo-translation would work just as well? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudolocalization Is this something that OOo already does? 2. If this is done the next builds can be also used for looking into the localizations. We had the following set of languages for our developer milestones (DEV300 and OOO340): - English (US) as master language - German due to historical reasons and we had the most testers here - French for the same reason IMHO and long strings - Japanese due the CJK characters and to test RTL writing - Russian due to Cyrillic charachters - Arabic due to the characters and to test bidi writing I doubt that we'll see the same number of people step up, that OOo saw (say) a year ago. With the stagnation during the Sun/Oracle acquisition, with the LibreOffice initiative, and with the recent move to the ASF, the entire ecosystem is kind of separated. I believe it will take some time for the system to settle down and for people to decide where they would like to contribute. It would be great to place the above onto our wiki as nice to have. But I believe it will take us a while to reach it. So, we could stick with this (or maybe exchange the one or other language if is no volunteer to test at the moments, maybe French -- Brazilian-Portuguese ?). Not sure about this. Again, I think we'd need to look at what help arrives. Brazilians are awesome in the Free software space. It is really a national thing. --- 3. Tests for release builds are out of scope at the moment, but more language tests the better. BTW: We have also smoke tests. If I'm not wrong these should be included in the source code. Yes. Please see that any l10n tests get into the main code base! Cheers, -g
Re: ICU update
--- On Wed, 6/29/11, Eike Rathke o...@erack.de wrote: ... Hi Pedro, On Tuesday, 2011-06-28 09:43:12 -0700, Pedro F. Giffuni wrote: FWIW, ICU 4.8 runs out of memory when building here. How much (real+virtual) memory, which platform and compiler? Well, 2G RAM + 4G swap but I think the problem is that I am hitting a per-user system limit. This is part of a series of updates to the OOo external dependencies that I am doing on FreeBSD's ports tree, so I am checking with the maintainers and making sure I don't break other applications. I will send a report to the list when I finish updating my system. For now I'd recommend using ICU 4.6.1. Pedro.
Re: Introduction
Thanks! I hope I can contribute in terms of UI/UX. B.O.B. Port-folia IlustreBOB.com.br (http://IlustreBOB.com.br) — twitter.com/IlustreBOB (http://twitter.com/IlustreBOB) On quarta-feira, 29 de junho de 2011 at 09:11, Rob Weir wrote: Very nice portfolio, Bruno. I like your work. -Rob On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:43 PM, Bruno O. Barros meunomee...@gmail.com (mailto:meunomee...@gmail.com) wrote: Hello, I'm a brazilian graphic designer and hope I can help you guys develop an even nicer OpenOffice. Lately I've been working on the UI/UX of a couple of iOS apps and I have some experience on webdesign. My portfolio: http://ilustrebob.com.br/ (unfortunately it's in pt-BR) Thanks, B.O.B. Portfolio IlustreBOB.com.br (http://IlustreBOB.com.br) — twitter.com/IlustreBOB (http://twitter.com/IlustreBOB)
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
Am 06/29/2011 04:12 PM, schrieb Greg Stein: On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 09:11, Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Right. Maybe we should split this into 2 parts: 1. The very first build(s) to handle fixes for build breaker: IMHO here it should be enough to have en-US only For better or worse, the ASF is US-centric, so this makes sense. I thought about en-US as it's the master language in the source, but anyway. 2. If this is done the next builds can be also used for looking into the localizations. We had the following set of languages for our developer milestones (DEV300 and OOO340): - English (US) as master language - German due to historical reasons and we had the most testers here - French for the same reason IMHO and long strings - Japanese due the CJK characters and to test RTL writing - Russian due to Cyrillic charachters - Arabic due to the characters and to test bidi writing I doubt that we'll see the same number of people step up, that OOo saw (say) a year ago. With the stagnation during the Sun/Oracle acquisition, with the LibreOffice initiative, and with the recent move to the ASF, the entire ecosystem is kind of separated. I believe it will take some time for the system to settle down and for people to decide where they would like to contribute. Sure, it was just an example and why these languages were choosen. Of course we have to look at the new contributors and then decide which languages to build frequently for testing. It would be great to place the above onto our wiki as nice to have. But I believe it will take us a while to reach it. Done Marcus
Introduction
Hi, My name is Wang Lei. I work for IBM. I am a developer of IBM Lotus Symphony, which is based on OpenOffice. I live in Beijing, China. I was working on several projects related with OpenOffice full time since I joined IBM in 2002. Now I am Spreadsheet team lead of IBM Lotus Symphony. My main field of activity is the spreadsheet DataPilot, data operation(filter, sort), formula, etc. I did some UI improvements for Symphony. I'm also deeply involved in the performance improvement for Lotus Symphony. I hope I can do more contributions to OpenOffice Spreadsheet to bring more value to the end user. I love travelling. I hope OpenOffice conference can be hold in different cities, which give me the chance to visit them. -- Thanks Best regards! Wang Lei Symphony Spreadsheet Development, IBM China Software Development LAB, Beijing Tel: 86-10-82452786 Fax:86-10-82452887 E-mail: l...@cn.ibm.com
Invitation to speak at TransferSummit
I chair a conference in Oxford, UK called TransferSummit. The next on is in September (7/8). The conference is about open development and open innovation. I would love to have someone from the Apache OO.o team present the community case for Apache OO.o. That is, rather than a technical presentation I am looking for a justification for the move to the ASF. There are other talks that cover the Apache Way, I'm more looking for opinion from the initial committers. I'm afraid we don't pay travel expenses, but we do cover a conference pass, two nights accomodation, gala dinner, breakfasts and lunch More info about the conference at http://www.transfersummit.com (if anyone on this list thinks they have another killer presentation for such an event feel free to mail me) Ross
Re: Naming of trunk and feature branches
On 06/29/2011 03:54 PM, Marcus (OOo) wrote: Am 06/29/2011 03:39 PM, schrieb Michael Stahl: On 29.06.2011 15:03, Greg Stein wrote: Branches can be named whatever we'd like. My own preference would be to call this: /branches/3.4.x The OOO is awfully redundant, and the last digit (0) doesn't make sense since we would be releasing patches from the branch such as 3.4.1. The 3.4.x naming is used by many products, and it has worked out very well. it wouldn't be a surprise to me if the reason for the OOO340 name would be that it has to be exactly 3 letters followed by exactly 3 digits, or otherwise some tooling breaks. I'm sure there will be a few tooling breaks when we change the naming scheme, but not as many as some people assume :-) They also will be easily fixed. for example, the 2.4.x CVS release branch was called OOH680 (what the heck does that mean?) oh yes, right, I remember there was a special purpose for these naming schema. Let's see what Heiner will tell us. :-P The naming scheme was invented long before CWSs and milestone builds were introduced. It made kinda sense back then and stayed simply due to inertia. Agreed it looks rather arbitrary from the outside but so are code names like Karmic Koala or Linux kernel versions like 2.6.39.2 ... yes I know they have fixed that recently :-) The only important thing is that people have a name for what they are speaking about. Typically what is needed is a name for each code line. A code line in the OOo context usually represented a feature release plus subsequent bug fix releases. With the old scheme of having one feature release and one bug fix release alternating every quarter of a year plus security fixed for up to seven year old releases we had a whole bunch of code lines. I'm glad we have now the opportunity to clean this up. For reference (not everyone here might know the old naming scheme): DEV300 is what people in other projects might call the trunk, the main development code line. All new features went into DEV300. The last milestone on this code line was m106. When OOo neared a new feature release, a release code line was opened by branching of from the main development code line for stabilizing. The last one was called OOO340 for the upcoming OOo 3.4 release. Incidentally OOO340 was branched of DEV300 m106, thus there is no new stuff in the main development code line DEV300 which is not also in OOO340. Lucky timing, for once. There was just one milestone m1 on OOO340 with the integration of about a handful of bug fixes and a few late features. Heiner -- Jens-Heiner Rechtien
Re: Invitation to speak at TransferSummit
Ross, I'd be happy to volunteer for this preso. I'm one of the non-coder Committers, and worked to move OpenOffice to Apache on several fronts. My day job is working in IBM Software Group's Open Standards/Open Source team with my specific focus on the OASIS OpenDocument Format standard, hence my keen interest in OpenOffice, and all things 'ODF', including the ODF Toolkit Java tools, enabling programmatic manipulation of documents. I'm new to Apache, drinking from the firehose, but I'd very much like to step up and discuss the various perspectives that led to OpenOffice moving to Apache at TransferSummit. Hopefully, by September my track record on list will be more established than it is now. I signed up to work the trademark/branding, communiations and community development aspects of the project. /don On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Ross Gardler rgard...@apache.org wrote: I chair a conference in Oxford, UK called TransferSummit. The next on is in September (7/8). The conference is about open development and open innovation. I would love to have someone from the Apache OO.o team present the community case for Apache OO.o. That is, rather than a technical presentation I am looking for a justification for the move to the ASF. There are other talks that cover the Apache Way, I'm more looking for opinion from the initial committers. I'm afraid we don't pay travel expenses, but we do cover a conference pass, two nights accomodation, gala dinner, breakfasts and lunch More info about the conference at http://www.transfersummit.com (if anyone on this list thinks they have another killer presentation for such an event feel free to mail me) Ross
OOo site down
Hi the OOo site has been down for the most part of the day, it affects people (like me) that have OOo addresses. -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org
Re: OOo site down
On Wed, 2011-06-29 at 14:22 -0500, Alexandro Colorado wrote: Hi the OOo site has been down for the most part of the day, it affects people (like me) that have OOo addresses. The wiki and the forums are up. The forums have a problem if you try to access the front page - but going directly to a language forum it works, well. So for example: http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum //drew
Re: OOo site down
Nothing the asf can do at this point- try the standard oracle support channels for ooo. Sent from my iPhone On Jun 29, 2011, at 3:22 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org wrote: Hi the OOo site has been down for the most part of the day, it affects people (like me) that have OOo addresses. -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org
Re: OOo site down
On 6/29/2011 12:29 PM, Reizinger Zoltán wrote: 2011.06.29. 21:22 keltezéssel, Alexandro Colorado írta: Hi the OOo site has been down for the most part of the day, it affects people (like me) that have OOo addresses. If I know correctly some server room overheating/cooling failure, cause this. See http://twitter.com/#!/ProjectKenai, it is in same place where OOo sites, ODFToolkit, etc. sits. Zoltan Sorry for the inconvenience Alexandro. The servers are unavailable - the ProjectKenai twitter feed seems to be updated with the current status. This is in no way related to the decommissioning of the OOo website. Andrew
Re: Hauling in third-party code (was: Category B licenses)
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 29, 2011 7:54 AM, Jens-Heiner Rechtien jhrecht...@web.de wrote: On 06/29/2011 01:19 AM, Greg Stein wrote: ... This process sounds exactly like what the buildout tool[1] is designed to handle. It seems like a good opportunity to move from OOo's homegrown system to something that is supported, documented, and maintained by others. The system we currently have is effective - and it works now. I agree that there are better and more standard ways to do this but I guess it's not our first priority, maybe not even our second. volunteers scratch their own itches ;-) It's a whole lot of stuff and it has to work on Windows as well. Would python be good enough for this? Introducing something as buildtools will be the perfect time sink for someone overhauling the build process. And I would hate it if the change would stop somewhere in between - I've seen many tries to standardize stuff in OOo which ended prematurely leaving us with *two* ways to do things. Any replacement would need to be developed in parallel It's very easy to underestimate the effort given the sheer size of OOo. A PMC needs to be able to provide oversight and verify releases. The size of OOo is going to make this difficult. Is the current plan to integrate the release of the homegrown build tool with the rest of OOo? Of course if someone is willing to do this, that would be great. But it takes a lot of commitment to see the changes through. Right. Agreed! +1 Just throwing it out there. I think it could be a great way to reduce maintenance in the long run, but recognize there is a big hurdle to cross first. +1 I'm concerned about being able to verify official OOo releases. If switching to buildout (say) made automated auditing and oversight easier then it may well be worth the effort. Reviewing those patches would also be good. Try and get more of them upstream. For example, I saw some patches to Neon in there which should get pushed upstream, and also move to the latest version of Neon. Always a good idea to do this, but if I remember right especially neon was occasionally unresponsive regarding some of our patches. But I guess every downstream project complains about upstream being unresponsive :-). But I know that we've updated neon support regularly over the last years. Yeah. We'd always like upstream to love us :-) +1 Robert
Re: Please add your name to the contributors page
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 09:03, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 17:43 -0500, Alexandro Colorado wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.comwrote: I sure am glad there is a web interface, as I don't have time (or any real need for the forseeable future) to learn how to commit anything using Subversion. The only thing I normally commit is mayhem, and I'll try to minimise that here. Hahaha... good one, althought is not as difficult as you might think. Even easy things take time to learn how to do... even when the instructions make sense to me, which they often don't. (And then I want to rewrite the instructions, which takes even more time.) I appear to have succeeded in adding myself to the list on the contributors page (using the web interface). I got stuck for awhile about adding the bookmarklet to the browser toolbar, since I don't keep a bookmark toolbar visible on my browser, but eventually I figured it out and by golly it worked. ;-) --Jean
Re: Please add your name to the contributors page
Congrats on your first set of commits to the project. The CMS webgui was explicitly designed for non-techies to use as we have people in marketing and legal related activities that need to be able to edit webpages. I'm glad to see you were able to figure it all out, because after all it's little more than a bunch of wrapper code around basic svn operations. - Original Message From: Jean Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 3:57:59 PM Subject: Re: Please add your name to the contributors page On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 09:03, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 17:43 -0500, Alexandro Colorado wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 5:39 PM, Jean Hollis Weber jeanwe...@gmail.comwrote: I sure am glad there is a web interface, as I don't have time (or any real need for the forseeable future) to learn how to commit anything using Subversion. The only thing I normally commit is mayhem, and I'll try to minimise that here. Hahaha... good one, althought is not as difficult as you might think. Even easy things take time to learn how to do... even when the instructions make sense to me, which they often don't. (And then I want to rewrite the instructions, which takes even more time.) I appear to have succeeded in adding myself to the list on the contributors page (using the web interface). I got stuck for awhile about adding the bookmarklet to the browser toolbar, since I don't keep a bookmark toolbar visible on my browser, but eventually I figured it out and by golly it worked. ;-) --Jean
Re: Invitation to speak at TransferSummit
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.com wrote: This sounds great Donald. No worries about being new to the ASF, I'm really wanting someone with some history with OOo that can talk about why you (not your employer) felt that Apache was chosen as the final home. I am also asking someone from LO. I trust that both parties will be Asking them what? Presumably they would not be presenting a justification for the move to the ASF. sensible enough to avoid there being an Us and Them flavour. In fact I I suspect that will depend on the answer to my question above. The sense of the question matters as much as the sense of person. truly hope that we can use the opportunity to have some face to face time and a beet/wine/whiskey/coke/whatever. On the weekend there is a BarCampApache which, if you want to stick around, will provide a less formal environment to do some good community work. Before I confirm a speaker though I will let the planet revolve a few more times. Ross On 29 June 2011 20:05, Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com wrote: Ross, I'd be happy to volunteer for this preso. I'm one of the non-coder Committers, and worked to move OpenOffice to Apache on several fronts. My day job is working in IBM Software Group's Open Standards/Open Source team with my specific focus on the OASIS OpenDocument Format standard, hence my keen interest in OpenOffice, and all things 'ODF', including the ODF Toolkit Java tools, enabling programmatic manipulation of documents. I'm new to Apache, drinking from the firehose, but I'd very much like to step up and discuss the various perspectives that led to OpenOffice moving to Apache at TransferSummit. Hopefully, by September my track record on list will be more established than it is now. I signed up to work the trademark/branding, communiations and community development aspects of the project. /don On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Ross Gardler rgard...@apache.org wrote: I chair a conference in Oxford, UK called TransferSummit. The next on is in September (7/8). The conference is about open development and open innovation. I would love to have someone from the Apache OO.o team present the community case for Apache OO.o. That is, rather than a technical presentation I am looking for a justification for the move to the ASF. There are other talks that cover the Apache Way, I'm more looking for opinion from the initial committers. I'm afraid we don't pay travel expenses, but we do cover a conference pass, two nights accomodation, gala dinner, breakfasts and lunch More info about the conference at http://www.transfersummit.com (if anyone on this list thinks they have another killer presentation for such an event feel free to mail me) Ross -- Ross Gardler (@rgardler) Programme Leader (Open Development) OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:03, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Am 06/29/2011 04:12 PM, schrieb Greg Stein: ... It would be great to place the above onto our wiki as nice to have. But I believe it will take us a while to reach it. Done Perfect. Thanks! Cheers, -g
Re: Invitation to speak at TransferSummit
Ross, I'm wearing an Apache Hat here.. I'm also wearing an OpenOffice.org Hat since I've been involved in the project since 2005. So I have alot of history, if that's your concern. One of the aspects of the Apache project that has gotten a fair amount of misunderstanding is the relationship of IBM Symphony to OpenOffice, and now with Apache OpenOffice. Excluding this POV will not be a service to anyone. IMHO. I can wear three hats if you like, and switch them on and off during the presentation: OpenOffice.org, Symphony, and Apache OpenOffice. I also know the LibreOffice people pretty well from my history with OpenOffice. It would be great to have the beer/coke/whatever... ...Not sure why I'm disqualified in your view from giving the presentation, to be honest. /don On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.comwrote: This sounds great Donald. No worries about being new to the ASF, I'm really wanting someone with some history with OOo that can talk about why you (not your employer) felt that Apache was chosen as the final home. I am also asking someone from LO. I trust that both parties will be sensible enough to avoid there being an Us and Them flavour. In fact I truly hope that we can use the opportunity to have some face to face time and a beet/wine/whiskey/coke/whatever. On the weekend there is a BarCampApache which, if you want to stick around, will provide a less formal environment to do some good community work. Before I confirm a speaker though I will let the planet revolve a few more times. Ross On 29 June 2011 20:05, Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com wrote: Ross, I'd be happy to volunteer for this preso. I'm one of the non-coder Committers, and worked to move OpenOffice to Apache on several fronts. My day job is working in IBM Software Group's Open Standards/Open Source team with my specific focus on the OASIS OpenDocument Format standard, hence my keen interest in OpenOffice, and all things 'ODF', including the ODF Toolkit Java tools, enabling programmatic manipulation of documents. I'm new to Apache, drinking from the firehose, but I'd very much like to step up and discuss the various perspectives that led to OpenOffice moving to Apache at TransferSummit. Hopefully, by September my track record on list will be more established than it is now. I signed up to work the trademark/branding, communiations and community development aspects of the project. /don On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 12:30 PM, Ross Gardler rgard...@apache.org wrote: I chair a conference in Oxford, UK called TransferSummit. The next on is in September (7/8). The conference is about open development and open innovation. I would love to have someone from the Apache OO.o team present the community case for Apache OO.o. That is, rather than a technical presentation I am looking for a justification for the move to the ASF. There are other talks that cover the Apache Way, I'm more looking for opinion from the initial committers. I'm afraid we don't pay travel expenses, but we do cover a conference pass, two nights accomodation, gala dinner, breakfasts and lunch More info about the conference at http://www.transfersummit.com (if anyone on this list thinks they have another killer presentation for such an event feel free to mail me) Ross -- Ross Gardler (@rgardler) Programme Leader (Open Development) OpenDirective http://opendirective.com
Re: Invitation to speak at TransferSummit
On 29 June 2011 21:20, Rob Weir apa...@robweir.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 3:59 PM, Ross Gardler rgard...@opendirective.com wrote: This sounds great Donald. No worries about being new to the ASF, I'm really wanting someone with some history with OOo that can talk about why you (not your employer) felt that Apache was chosen as the final home. I am also asking someone from LO. I trust that both parties will be Asking them what? Presumably they would not be presenting a justification for the move to the ASF. :-) an obvious quesiton, but certainly one that needs asking. I'm asking them to talk about Libre Office and TDF - i.e. how does it work. I'm working with them to ensure that the session is *not* about their opinions of OOo or the Apache. I will be working with both speakers (assuming someone suitable from LO/TDF is wiling to speak) to make sure that the presentation is appropriate. Ross
Re: Some more strange files in the OOo code
Hi again; I went through Mathias' list of external source tarballs. The idea is to make sure that most of that stuff was updated in FreeBSD and while doing that I checked the licenses. I found the following licenses missing from the ApacheMigration list in the OOo wiki: NameVersion license __ Beanshell (bsh) 20b4LGPL/Sun Public License gdk-pixbuf 2.23.5 LGPL gentiumbasic-fonts 1.1 SIL gettext 1.18.1 LGPL glibc-??LGPL jaf 1.1.1 Javabeans(?) jakarta-tomcat 5.5.33 ASL javamail1.4.4 CDDL-1.0, GPL mysql-connector 1.1.0 GPL pixman 0.22.0 MIT? python 2.6.7 PSF (permissive) rhino 1.7R3 MPL/GPL sac 1.3 W3C (permissive) saxon 9.1.0.7 MPL? Note that some of them are also outdated. More outdated tarballs independent of the license) and the version *I* recommend are listed here: commons-codec 1.5 common-httpclient obsoleted by httpcomponents commons-lang2.6 EPM 4.2 hsqldb 1.8.1 hunspell1.2.11 icu 4.6.1 liberation-fonts-ttf1.0.7.0 libgsf 1.14.21 lucene 2.9.4 raptor 1.4.21 rasqal 0.9.20 redland 1.0.12 STLport 5.1.7 seamonkey 2.1 (1.x insecure) vigra 1.7 xmlsec1 1.2.18 Of course it doesn't make sense to update copyleft stuff, but it's good to have reference version values for optional extensions. cheers, Pedro.
OpenOffice project interest in South Africa?
Just noticed that we had project members from North America, South America, Europe, Asia and Australia. So 5 of 7 continents. I have doubts that we'll get anyone from Antarctica. But I thought there was strong interest in OpenOffice in South Africa, especially with their many official languages. Does anyone have any contacts there? We should reach out and make sure that they are included in our community. -Rob
Re: Differences between OOO and LibreOffice.
FWIW; One interesting difference that I see happening in the future wrt LibreOffice is that Apache OpenOffice will be a big consumer of Java stuff. Apache PDFBox looks like a good candidate for inclusion. cheers, Pedro.
Re: OpenOffice project interest in South Africa?
On 29 June 2011 22:08, Rob Weir apa...@robweir.com wrote: Just noticed that we had project members from North America, South America, Europe, Asia and Australia. So 5 of 7 continents. I have doubts that we'll get anyone from Antarctica. But I thought there was strong interest in OpenOffice in South Africa, especially with their many official languages. Does anyone have any contacts there? We should reach out and make sure that they are included in our community. Most obvious is Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical with Ubuntu already committed to LibO. Craig Adams still has an OOo address. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: Differences between OOO and LibreOffice.
Maybe better to emphasise the similarities, the most important being that they both operate on odf files with 100% fidelity. From a user point of view that is very important and not mentioned in this thread which was started by what seems to be a user not a dev. -- Ian Ofqual Accredited IT Qualifications (The Schools ITQ) www.theINGOTs.org +44 (0)1827 305940 The Learning Machine Limited, Reg Office, 36 Ashby Road, Tamworth, Staffordshire, B79 8AQ. Reg No: 05560797, Registered in England and Wales.
Re: OpenOffice project interest in South Africa?
Am 06/29/2011 11:08 PM, schrieb Rob Weir: Just noticed that we had project members from North America, South America, Europe, Asia and Australia. So 5 of 7 continents. I have doubts that we'll get anyone from Antarctica. Come on, don't exclude them before they had a chance to spoke up via their connection by bell wire. :-P But I thought there was strong interest in OpenOffice in South Africa, especially with their many official languages. Does anyone have any contacts there? We should reach out and make sure that they are included in our community. The offical contact for en-ZA is Dwayne Bailey. At least he is still listed here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Languages Furthermore, we had contact to Friedel Wolff from translate.org.za who has helped us to setup a new pootle server for our Continuous L10N Integration project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/NewPootleServer Maybe it's worth to restart the contacts. Marcus
Re: Getting to our first build
+1 ( I realize I'm several messages behind here, but after a couple of days OOTO I've been doing the Sisyphean task working my way up the mountain of ooo-dev messages) On 6/28/2011 9:59 AM, Rob Weir wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 12:35 PM, Mathias Bauermathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: On 28.06.2011 18:05, Greg Stein wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 07:34, Rob Weirapa...@robweir.comwrote: ... Hi Mathias, I don't know whether my approach is feasible either. I know we can set properties on files in SVN. You can retrieve them individually, but I don't see a way to query them, e.g., list all files that don't have a license property, or download all files that have a license property set to Apache 2.0. I'm not entirely sure about tagging like this. An interesting idea, definitely. In any case, you're right in terms of Subversion's query capabilities. You can list properties of nodes, but you cannot form queries to return nodes with certain property configurations. I somewhat prefer managing the IP aspect with separate lists of files, rather than injecting that information into the repository. So fa, I think that you've been doing most of the code investigations. So I'd trust your judgement on what the next steps should be. Do you have any thoughts what work remains for the next 1 or 2 weeks? For example, is Oracle currently reviewing the additional SGA requesets? Or do we need to request this still? Nobody has made a request. Nobody has produced a list of files to request. If I understand the rules at Apache (and it is certainly possible I have this wrong, but in that case Im sure someone will quickly correct me), a Podling can check in all of the code, including parts that are LGPL/GPL. We can make builds from that. But we are not permitted to make a releases or to graduate from a podling until we have gone through the IP checklist, including dealing with code that has an incompatible license. You have this entirely correct. Thanks! Of course, if you think you are close to having a clean version of OOo ready to check in, then I don't want to interrupt the fine work that you are already doing. But in that case I think it would help if we had a roadmap for the next couple of weeks, of what tasks remains, so others can help as well. I still believe that we would like *history* rather than simply copying over tip from the old repository. Having that history in one repository is so incredibly useful to so many people, that I cannot see why we would skip it. It costs us pain *now*, but think about how long this codebase will live? Will people a decade from now want to use two repositories to investigate history? So let me try to summarize: We take the OOo source code with tag OOO340_m1 from hg.services.openoffice.org, including the full history, means: we will just import it from hg to svn. Then we use the lists of naughty files I have created and remove the files with svn remove that may not stay in the Apache repository. I see it like this: 1) Coordinate the check in so we can do it on the Apache server if possible (to save time). Also, we should disable the commit list notification emails during the check in. Otherwise we'll cause everyone's email files to explode and catch on fire. 2) Check in the OOO340_m1 code, with history. 3) Verify that we can extract that source and build it. I know that sounds like a trivial thing, but I think we can use this to encourage as many project members as possible to download the source, set up a build environment and confirm that they can build. Having many committers with a working build environment will help us going forward. 4) At this point the code will be a mix: a) Oracle SGA-provided code. No action needed on these. b) 3rd party code with a compatible license. We need a list of these so we can provided proper notice in our releases, to respect the terms of the license. c) 3rd party code with an incompatible license. We need to understand these dependencies and agree on how to handle them. d) Oracle code that was not included in the initial SGA. We need to ask Oracle to amend their SGA to include these files. I think we can handle some of this in parallel. In result we will have some files with LGPL or MPL in our repository (in the history), but on head they will be removed. head will have only files that are owned by Oracle (and will get ASL from Oracle) and those files that are not owned by Oracle, but are part of the current OOo repository and have a license that is compatible with ASL. This is correct for incompatible 3rd party licensed code. We would svn delete these. But this does not need to be an immediate thing, where we quickly delete all GPL code as quickly as possible. We can do it module by module, replacing pieces as we go. The main restriction is that we cannot do a podling release with the incompatible code in it. But we can spent a month or more, if needed, working in the repository, doing
Re: svn commit: r1141265 - /incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/edit-cms.mdtext
Typical build-time for a page is 2-3 seconds. For a full site build maybe 5-10 seconds. The reason you think it takes 20-30 is because our mail server has a built-in 20s delay for spam prevention. - Original Message From: robw...@apache.org robw...@apache.org To: ooo-comm...@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 5:52:20 PM Subject: svn commit: r1141265 - /incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/edit-cms.mdtext Author: robweir Date: Wed Jun 29 21:52:19 2011 New Revision: 1141265 URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc?rev=1141265view=rev Log: Added more detailed steps on the web interface Modified: incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/edit-cms.mdtext Modified: incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/edit-cms.mdtext URL: http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/edit-cms.mdtext?rev=1141265r1=1141264r2=1141265view=diff == --- incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/edit-cms.mdtext (original) +++ incubator/ooo/site/trunk/content/openofficeorg/docs/edit-cms.mdtext Wed Jun 29 21:52:19 2011 @@ -16,27 +16,38 @@ Notice:Licensed to the Apache Softwa specific language governing permissions and limitations under the License. -This HowTo documentation will show the needed steps to edit the Apache OpenOffice.org +This documentation shows how to edit the Apache OpenOffice.org website. This includes creation of new pages, modification, and deletion - for files and sub-directories. ## How it works in general -The website is hosted in a Content Management System (CMS). You will not edit the -HTML pages directly. The actual edit is split into two steps: +The website is hosted in a Content Management System (CMS). When you edit a web page +there are potentially four different versions of it to think about: - 1. First you edit the content which is provided as [Markdown text][1] (mdtext). -This will be committed into the staging section (see the SVN commit mail with - your log message) and automatically build HTML files out of the the mdtext files -(see the commit mail with Staging update by buildbot as log messge). + 1. There is latest version of the page source stored in subversion. + 1. There is your working copy of that page source, which you are editing. + 1. There is the generated HTML from that source, in the staging directory. + 1. There is the production version of the HTML, which is what the public sees. + + +The general flow for updating the website is: + + 1. You check out latest version of the web pages source. + 1. You edit the page source using [Markdown text syntax][1] (mdtext). + 1. You commit the source into the repository. You will see the SVN commit mail with +your log message + 1. The commit automatically triggers a build that converts the markdown files +into HTML files in the staging directory. You will see a commit mail with Staging update by buildbot as log messge). + 1. You verify that the staged webpage is correct and then tell the CMS to publish +the changes to the production directory. (You will see a commit mail with Publishing merge to openofficeorg site by your Apache ID +as log message.) + +The intent of this workflow is to allow committers flexibility in changing +webpages and testing changes on a staging website, before moving these changes to +the public web site. - 2. Second you need to publish the staging part to the production section (see the - commit mail with Publishing merge to openofficeorg site by your Apache ID -as log message). - -## What do you prefer: Working via command line or in the browser? - -### Via command line +## Command line editing workflow It is assumed that you have already checked out the code from the SVN repository (https://svn.apache.org/repos/asf/incubator/ooo). @@ -55,66 +66,82 @@ executing this: ssh -t user@people.apache.org publish.pl openofficeorg your Apache ID -### Editing in the browser +## Browser-based editing workflow - Prerequisites +### Prerequisites -# Browser bookmark + Browser bookmark Normally you see the webpage in your browser. To update this page with an -inline-editor and little preview you need to add a link as bookmark to your browser -(more information see [here][2]). +inline-editor and little preview you use the [Apache CMS] [3] JavaScript bookmarklet. Drag that +link to your browser's toolbar. For more information see [here][2]. -Drag this [Apache CMS] [3] bookmarklet to your browser's toolbar. - -# Apache ID + Apache ID Furthermore, you need an Apache ID to authenticate to the system. - Starting +### Starting -Browse to the respective webpage
Re: OOo site down
Got my email back, thanks for the updates. On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Andrew Rist andrew.r...@oracle.com wrote: On 6/29/2011 12:29 PM, Reizinger Zoltán wrote: 2011.06.29. 21:22 keltezéssel, Alexandro Colorado írta: Hi the OOo site has been down for the most part of the day, it affects people (like me) that have OOo addresses. If I know correctly some server room overheating/cooling failure, cause this. See http://twitter.com/#!/ProjectKenai, it is in same place where OOo sites, ODFToolkit, etc. sits. Zoltan Sorry for the inconvenience Alexandro. The servers are unavailable - the ProjectKenai twitter feed seems to be updated with the current status. This is in no way related to the decommissioning of the OOo website. Andrew -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Invitation to speak at TransferSummit
On 29 June 2011 17:30, Ross Gardler rgard...@apache.org wrote: I chair a conference in Oxford, UK called TransferSummit. The next on is in September (7/8). The conference is about open development and open innovation. I would love to have someone from the Apache OO.o team present the community case for Apache OO.o. That is, rather than a technical presentation I am looking for a justification for the move to the ASF. I would like to stress that by justification I do not mean a justification for the Oracle/IBM decision to move OOo here. I mean justification for the ***individuals*** support of that move. That is why is the speaker here contributing to Apache OOo. I expand on this later in this thread. Sorry if this has caused you confusion. Ross There are other talks that cover the Apache Way, I'm more looking for opinion from the initial committers. I'm afraid we don't pay travel expenses, but we do cover a conference pass, two nights accomodation, gala dinner, breakfasts and lunch More info about the conference at http://www.transfersummit.com (if anyone on this list thinks they have another killer presentation for such an event feel free to mail me) Ross
Re: Please add your name to the contributors page [PATCH]
On 06/28/2011 12:03 PM, Rob Weir wrote: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/people.html I've updated the page to have a table rather than just a flat list. Every committer should add themselves to the list, as well as ever other person who is contributing via the the discussion lists, wiki, etc. You're all contributors to the project. Committers should follow the instruction here, to learn how to use the CMS to edit the web site: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/edit-cms.html This is an essential project skill, so if you have not already studied that page, it would be good to take this as an opportunity to pick up this skill. If you are a programmer, comfortable with Subversion, the the command line instructions are easy. If you would prefer the web interface, then skip down to where it says Editing in the browser. For contributors who are not committers, you would need to submit a patch with your information to the list. Well .. this is the first time I've ever created a patch. Using the patch creation process through Eclipse, it's attached here. I have no idea if it's correct. :/ In addition to ensuring that everyone understands how to update the web site, this is also a good opportunity to build a quick directory of what skills project members have. Regards, -Rob -- MzK He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff, that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and I'll just start over kind of attitude. -- 1 Dead in the Attic, Chris Rose Index: trunk/content/openofficeorg/people.mdtext === --- trunk/content/openofficeorg/people.mdtext (revision 1141292) +++ trunk/content/openofficeorg/people.mdtext (working copy) @@ -36,5 +36,6 @@ trtdrobweir/tdtda href=http://www.robweir.com/blog;Rob Weir/a/tdtdWestford, MA, USA/tdtdC/C++, Java, Python, XML, ODF, Performance tuning/td/tr trtddpharbison/tdtdDon Harbison/tdtdChelmsford, MA USA/tdtdTrademark, Branding, Communications, Community Development/td/tr trtdjeanweber/tdtda href=http://taming-openoffice-org.com/;Jean Hollis Weber/a/tdtdTownsville, QLD, Australia/tdtdTechnical writing/editing/publishing of end-user documentation/td/tr +trtd/tdtdKay Schenk/tdtdChico, CA/tdtdHTML, CSS, Javascript, Java, Perl, general technical writing/td/tr /table /table
Re: OpenOffice project interest in South Africa?
Let's ask Aslam Raffee. He used to be on the OASIS ODF Adoption TC. On Jun 29, 2011 5:58 PM, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Am 06/29/2011 11:08 PM, schrieb Rob Weir: Just noticed that we had project members from North America, South America, Europe, Asia and Australia. So 5 of 7 continents. I have doubts that we'll get anyone from Antarctica. Come on, don't exclude them before they had a chance to spoke up via their connection by bell wire. :-P But I thought there was strong interest in OpenOffice in South Africa, especially with their many official languages. Does anyone have any contacts there? We should reach out and make sure that they are included in our community. The offical contact for en-ZA is Dwayne Bailey. At least he is still listed here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Languages Furthermore, we had contact to Friedel Wolff from translate.org.za who has helped us to setup a new pootle server for our Continuous L10N Integration project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/NewPootleServer Maybe it's worth to restart the contacts. Marcus
Re: OpenOffice project interest in South Africa?
Less democracy, more meritocracy at this point please. It's now almost 1 month since the proposal hit general@incubator, and as Danese suggested, it's time to let go of the idea that getting diverse representation from key geographical locations is going to lead to a more productive working group at the ASF. There is a lot to do here, and all I see is very sketchy starts at getting any of it done. If leaders are to be born here we need them to step up and start tackling this massive set of problems a little bit at a time. I'm not saying not to go out and invite more people to the project. I am saying be careful how you do it because the community is watching for favoritism or any other unfair methods of advancement. - Original Message From: Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 6:58:35 PM Subject: Re: OpenOffice project interest in South Africa? Let's ask Aslam Raffee. He used to be on the OASIS ODF Adoption TC. On Jun 29, 2011 5:58 PM, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Am 06/29/2011 11:08 PM, schrieb Rob Weir: Just noticed that we had project members from North America, South America, Europe, Asia and Australia. So 5 of 7 continents. I have doubts that we'll get anyone from Antarctica. Come on, don't exclude them before they had a chance to spoke up via their connection by bell wire. :-P But I thought there was strong interest in OpenOffice in South Africa, especially with their many official languages. Does anyone have any contacts there? We should reach out and make sure that they are included in our community. The offical contact for en-ZA is Dwayne Bailey. At least he is still listed here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Languages Furthermore, we had contact to Friedel Wolff from translate.org.za who has helped us to setup a new pootle server for our Continuous L10N Integration project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/NewPootleServer Maybe it's worth to restart the contacts. Marcus
Re: Please add your name to the contributors page [PATCH]
On Jun 29, 2011, at 3:45 PM, Kay Schenk wrote: On 06/28/2011 12:03 PM, Rob Weir wrote: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/people.html I've updated the page to have a table rather than just a flat list. Every committer should add themselves to the list, as well as ever other person who is contributing via the the discussion lists, wiki, etc. You're all contributors to the project. Committers should follow the instruction here, to learn how to use the CMS to edit the web site: http://incubator.apache.org/openofficeorg/docs/edit-cms.html This is an essential project skill, so if you have not already studied that page, it would be good to take this as an opportunity to pick up this skill. If you are a programmer, comfortable with Subversion, the the command line instructions are easy. If you would prefer the web interface, then skip down to where it says Editing in the browser. For contributors who are not committers, you would need to submit a patch with your information to the list. Well .. this is the first time I've ever created a patch. Using the patch creation process through Eclipse, it's attached here. I have no idea if it's correct. :/ It was enough for me to follow via cut and paste. You are now added. Regards, Dave In addition to ensuring that everyone understands how to update the web site, this is also a good opportunity to build a quick directory of what skills project members have. Regards, -Rob -- MzK He's got that New Orleans thing crawling all over him, that good stuff, that 'We Are the Champions', to hell with the rest and I'll just start over kind of attitude. -- 1 Dead in the Attic, Chris Rose kayspatch.patch
Re: OpenOffice project interest in South Africa?
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote: Less democracy, more meritocracy at this point please. It's now almost 1 month since the proposal hit general@incubator, and as Danese suggested, it's time to let go of the idea that getting diverse representation from key geographical locations is going to lead to a more productive working group at the ASF. Joe, there is nothing that says we cannot value both. How long since the *proposal* was submitted to the general list is irrelevant. The actual project has been here for two weeks. There is a lot to do here, and all I see is very sketchy starts at getting any of it done. If leaders are to be born here we need them to step up and start tackling this massive set of problems a little bit at a time. True, and we are making progress. This is occurring on many other threads. But this is irrelevant to the question I was asking. Remember, we need to think ahead a few steps. For every person writing core code, we will need multiple people testing, documenting, translating, porting, supporting, and yes, using the product. These are all part of the Apache OpenOffice project. As we move forward with the core coding tasks, I feel no reason to apologize for continuing the community development. In fact I hope this project never ever reaches the point where it believes that reaching out for more members is a bad thing, and that additional offers of help is anything but a blessing. I'm not saying not to go out and invite more people to the project. I am saying be careful how you do it because the community is watching for favoritism or any other unfair methods of advancement. Could you explain *your* concern with regards to favoritism or unfair methods of advancement? Vague insinuations, hiding behind the community is watching does not sit well with me. -Rob - Original Message From: Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 6:58:35 PM Subject: Re: OpenOffice project interest in South Africa? Let's ask Aslam Raffee. He used to be on the OASIS ODF Adoption TC. On Jun 29, 2011 5:58 PM, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Am 06/29/2011 11:08 PM, schrieb Rob Weir: Just noticed that we had project members from North America, South America, Europe, Asia and Australia. So 5 of 7 continents. I have doubts that we'll get anyone from Antarctica. Come on, don't exclude them before they had a chance to spoke up via their connection by bell wire. :-P But I thought there was strong interest in OpenOffice in South Africa, especially with their many official languages. Does anyone have any contacts there? We should reach out and make sure that they are included in our community. The offical contact for en-ZA is Dwayne Bailey. At least he is still listed here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Languages Furthermore, we had contact to Friedel Wolff from translate.org.za who has helped us to setup a new pootle server for our Continuous L10N Integration project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/NewPootleServer Maybe it's worth to restart the contacts. Marcus
Re: OpenOffice project interest in South Africa?
Let me alleviate your concerns with two proposals: 1) invite so-and-so to join the now-already-existing community as a new participant, without any special initial privileges, but being mindful of past efforts in the community as their participation level increases. 2) invite so-and-so to join the fledgling community as a committer/PPMC member, without first demonstrating any particular work towards the project's brand new goals. I shouldn't have to tell you which of those 2 I'd rather see at this point, and yes it's an either-or question, not a let's do both one. - Original Message From: Rob Weir apa...@robweir.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 7:26:59 PM Subject: Re: OpenOffice project interest in South Africa? On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 7:04 PM, Joe Schaefer joe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote: Less democracy, more meritocracy at this point please. It's now almost 1 month since the proposal hit general@incubator, and as Danese suggested, it's time to let go of the idea that getting diverse representation from key geographical locations is going to lead to a more productive working group at the ASF. Joe, there is nothing that says we cannot value both. How long since the *proposal* was submitted to the general list is irrelevant. The actual project has been here for two weeks. There is a lot to do here, and all I see is very sketchy starts at getting any of it done. If leaders are to be born here we need them to step up and start tackling this massive set of problems a little bit at a time. True, and we are making progress. This is occurring on many other threads. But this is irrelevant to the question I was asking. Remember, we need to think ahead a few steps. For every person writing core code, we will need multiple people testing, documenting, translating, porting, supporting, and yes, using the product. These are all part of the Apache OpenOffice project. As we move forward with the core coding tasks, I feel no reason to apologize for continuing the community development. In fact I hope this project never ever reaches the point where it believes that reaching out for more members is a bad thing, and that additional offers of help is anything but a blessing. I'm not saying not to go out and invite more people to the project. I am saying be careful how you do it because the community is watching for favoritism or any other unfair methods of advancement. Could you explain *your* concern with regards to favoritism or unfair methods of advancement? Vague insinuations, hiding behind the community is watching does not sit well with me. -Rob - Original Message From: Donald Harbison dpharbi...@gmail.com To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 6:58:35 PM Subject: Re: OpenOffice project interest in South Africa? Let's ask Aslam Raffee. He used to be on the OASIS ODF Adoption TC. On Jun 29, 2011 5:58 PM, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Am 06/29/2011 11:08 PM, schrieb Rob Weir: Just noticed that we had project members from North America, South America, Europe, Asia and Australia. So 5 of 7 continents. I have doubts that we'll get anyone from Antarctica. Come on, don't exclude them before they had a chance to spoke up via their connection by bell wire. :-P But I thought there was strong interest in OpenOffice in South Africa, especially with their many official languages. Does anyone have any contacts there? We should reach out and make sure that they are included in our community. The offical contact for en-ZA is Dwayne Bailey. At least he is still listed here: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Languages Furthermore, we had contact to Friedel Wolff from translate.org.za who has helped us to setup a new pootle server for our Continuous L10N Integration project: http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/NewPootleServer Maybe it's worth to restart the contacts. Marcus
Re: OOo site down
Alexandro, were the posts sent to the list today just queued up and eventually delivered? Or did they bounce during the outage? -Rob On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org wrote: Got my email back, thanks for the updates. On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Andrew Rist andrew.r...@oracle.com wrote: On 6/29/2011 12:29 PM, Reizinger Zoltán wrote: 2011.06.29. 21:22 keltezéssel, Alexandro Colorado írta: Hi the OOo site has been down for the most part of the day, it affects people (like me) that have OOo addresses. If I know correctly some server room overheating/cooling failure, cause this. See http://twitter.com/#!/ProjectKenai, it is in same place where OOo sites, ODFToolkit, etc. sits. Zoltan Sorry for the inconvenience Alexandro. The servers are unavailable - the ProjectKenai twitter feed seems to be updated with the current status. This is in no way related to the decommissioning of the OOo website. Andrew -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Preserving Legacy Content
On 6/28/2011 7:39 AM, Rob Weir wrote: Hi Joe, Were you able to get a copy of the zone file? Is there an Oracle web admin contact that we should be going to for request like this? It would be good to have a single contact point at Oracle, and a single contact point for the project, for requests like this to flow through. Or at least a well-understood list of people. I'm thinking of security here. I don't think we should expect Oracle to hunt through the mailAlias.txt and committer and IPMC lists to see if an email request is actually from the project. Andrew, does this make sense? I think this is one of a list similar admin requests that will be coming your way, from doing database dumps, to setting up redirects, etc. We need a way to get these requests and their status documented. JIRA or Bugzilla would be idea, but we don't have that set up yet, since we'll need some Oracle admin help moving the OOo bugzilla database over. So a chicken and egg problem. I am a good initial contact for stuff like this. Availability will obviously be gated by licensing and security/privacy considerations. For stuff like the translations and the bugzilla content, I have backups and we can create current snapshots. For much of this we can move first and solve SGA second (similar to the source code). Andrew -Rob On Sun, Jun 26, 2011 at 11:38 AM, Joe Schaeferjoe_schae...@yahoo.com wrote: At this point infrastructure would be interested in seeing the DNS zone file for openoffice.org, so we can get some idea of how many different services we're talking about. If someone has that information, please forward it to me privately. Thanks.
Re: OOo site down
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 7:07 PM, Rob Weir apa...@robweir.com wrote: Alexandro, were the posts sent to the list today just queued up and eventually delivered? Or did they bounce during the outage? they queued. seems things are back to normal now. -Rob On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 6:38 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org wrote: Got my email back, thanks for the updates. On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Andrew Rist andrew.r...@oracle.com wrote: On 6/29/2011 12:29 PM, Reizinger Zoltán wrote: 2011.06.29. 21:22 keltezéssel, Alexandro Colorado írta: Hi the OOo site has been down for the most part of the day, it affects people (like me) that have OOo addresses. If I know correctly some server room overheating/cooling failure, cause this. See http://twitter.com/#!/ProjectKenai, it is in same place where OOo sites, ODFToolkit, etc. sits. Zoltan Sorry for the inconvenience Alexandro. The servers are unavailable - the ProjectKenai twitter feed seems to be updated with the current status. This is in no way related to the decommissioning of the OOo website. Andrew -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org
Punjabi Translation
Hi, I would like to work for Punjabi Translation of OpenOffice Punjabi (Volunteers = Ammanpreet Alam) thanks -- A S Alam - Punjabi Open Source Team http://www.satluj.com/
Re: User documentation planning
On Tue, 2011-06-28 at 05:59 +1000, Jean Weber wrote: On Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 05:49, C smau...@gmail.com wrote: Last I checked, the Confluence Wiki can export to PDF and MS Word documents, but cannot export to ODT. It would be somewhat embarrassing to use a Wiki for OOo documentation and only be able to export MS Word formatted documents :-P Or... can someone create an ODT export extension for Confluence? I know one of the documentation team at Atlassian, who works on Confluence (among other products). She spoke at the Australian Online Documentation Conference last year about the many ways her documentation group was using Confluence. I believe the topic of export to ODT came up (I probably asked), but I don't recall the answer. I'll ask her if anything is happening about this. Sorry for the delay on this. It was entirely my fault in not asking my contact earlier; I got a response from her almost immediately after sending a query. Here's what she said: There is an open request for the feature on our issue tracker: https://jira.atlassian.com/browse/CONF-4730 A good idea would be to contact the development team who provide the Scroll Office and Scroll Wiki Exporter plugins for Confluence. The company is called K15t. They are based in Germany. I've had quite a lot of contact with Tobias and Stefan, both really great guys. They know a lot about office, documentation and Confluence. Here are their contact details: Stefan Kleineikenscheidt (K15t Software) ste...@k15t.com Tobias Anstett tob...@k15t.com Someone else should follow up on this, as I'm unlikely to understand any technical aspects of the reponses. --Jean
Re: External dependencies
On Jun 17, 2011, at 12:13 AM, Mathias Bauer wrote: On 17.06.2011 00:40, Greg Stein wrote: On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 12:15, Mathias Bauermathias_ba...@gmx.net wrote: ... The Oracle code as-is will not be sufficient to build anything. The initial list of files from Oracle misses several thousand files (e.g. nearly the complete build system files) because these files don't have copyright headers in them. To the best of my knowledge, they are under Oracle's copyright, but it's not up to me to decide on that. People are working on that, but we obviously have to wait. Let's use the Woah. Wait a second... What people? As far as I was aware, you're the only person assembling a list of files that we need, which we don't already have under Oracle's SGA. Cheers, -g I'm just the one who assembled lists. I'm not the one to use them. But the discussion in other threads meanwhile showed what is going on. We are working on the sub-domain / openoffice project list.[1] The external project's purpose is to track IP that does not follow the standard license [2] I hope that this is helpful. Regards, Dave [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OpenOffice+Domains [2] http://external.openoffice.org/
Re: Naming of trunk and feature branches
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Greg Stein gst...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, very much clearer. Thanks! Whatever ever we decide on the name, it will be Apache $something. We know that much, but I don't think the community has (yet) tried to figure out what $something should be. OpenOffice? OpenOffice.org? Office? ... or something entirely new like Apache Alfred. Which community is that? AFAIK is quite the opposite. I think that OpenOffice.org is the name, Apache pre-face is optional. We never named Sun StarOffice (for example). It's always been OpenOffice.org. From there, I think we can figure out the public short names. Cheers, -g On Jun 29, 2011 9:33 AM, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Naming of trunk and feature branches
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:33 AM, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Sorry, it seems I wasn't clear enough. I don't think about how to name directories and files in the SVN repo itself. Sure we can stick with the schema like it is done in other projects. It's more a general thing how to present trunk and branches to the outside. E.g., when we release bits we have to make clear into which direction they point. It's a difference if we use a name like branch 3.4.x or tell the people it's OOO 3.4.0 or maybe AOOO 3.4.0. So, I don't think that a trailing 0 is not ? when it is the 3.4.0 release. And the OOO is still necessary to show it's from our project. Of course it could be AOOO or whatever we will agree to. How to name the release files is another thing. There should be a clear structure to keep it simple and straight for scripts. But this is a topic for later. I hope it's more clear now. ;-) My bad also misconstruct the naming conversation. Well we used to have different branches each with a name OOODEV was for the always development branch and OOO for the actual release branches. So usually they got rid of the dots for clarity, and added a m for milestone: http://development.openoffice.org/releases/ and DEV: http://development.openoffice.org/releases/dev_index.html Marcus Am 06/29/2011 03:03 PM, schrieb Greg Stein: On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 08:09, Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: With the discussions about the master and feature branches, the following question comes to my mind. What about this naming schema for master and feature branches? *) In the past we had the following: DEV300 = master/trunk/head This will never lead to a release We're using Subversion, and nearly every svn repository across the planet names this trunk. Unless there is a specific reason to vary from that, I don't see why we'd want to name the directory DEV300. OOO340 = branch Branched from a specific DEV300 milestone to stablize the code when coming closer to a specific release (here: OOo 3.4) Branches can be named whatever we'd like. My own preference would be to call this: /branches/3.4.x The OOO is awfully redundant, and the last digit (0) doesn't make sense since we would be releasing patches from the branch such as 3.4.1. The 3.4.x naming is used by many products, and it has worked out very well. -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Marcus (OOo) marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: Right. Maybe we should split this into 2 parts: 1. The very first build(s) to handle fixes for build breaker: IMHO here it should be enough to have en-US only 2. If this is done the next builds can be also used for looking into the localizations. We had the following set of languages for our developer milestones (DEV300 and OOO340): - English (US) as master language - German due to historical reasons and we had the most testers here - French for the same reason IMHO and long strings - Japanese due the CJK characters and to test RTL writing - Russian due to Cyrillic charachters - Arabic due to the characters and to test bidi writing So, we could stick with this (or maybe exchange the one or other language if is no volunteer to test at the moments, maybe French -- Brazilian-Portuguese ?). Spanish would be good. I did submit a petition a few months back for this. Portuguese is a split language between portugal and brasil. Althought most of the romance language shared the same locales issues like long strings. --- 3. Tests for release builds are out of scope at the moment, but more language tests the better. BTW: We have also smoke tests. If I'm not wrong these should be included in the source code. Marcus Am 06/29/2011 02:35 PM, schrieb Rob Weir: It might be useful to make a distinction between two things: 1) What is needed to have a successful first build? ( https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan ) 2) What is needed to have a successful first release? ( https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Release-Translate-Plan ) For a first build, I think our main task will be to ensure that we didn't break anything by moving over from Oracle's servers to Apache servers. We want to define a simple set of tests that could be done after the initial move. But we would also want to run these tests on a regular basis,even daily. At work we call these smoke tests. I don't know what the equivalent name is for OOo. So what is the easiest test that we can do to verify that localization is not broken in OOo? For a public release, this will be much more complicated. -Rob On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 8:23 AM, Marcus (OOo)marcus.m...@wtnet.de wrote: IMHO you can do such little changes without to ask. We should extended the languages to Russian (due to Cyrillic letters) and Portuguese resp. Brazilian-Portuguese (due to long compared to other languages). Marcus Am 06/29/2011 01:46 PM, schrieb Kazunari Hirano: As we see Plan Matrix, https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Project+Planning Build-Translate-Plan will be one of our first jobs :) https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Build-Translate-Plan Can you read my comments on the page above? Can I delete the previous list and start the new list? -- *Alexandro Colorado* *OpenOffice.org* Español http://es.openoffice.org
Re: Build-Translate-Plan
On Wed, Jun 29, 2011 at 11:07 PM, Alexandro Colorado j...@openoffice.org wrote: Spanish would be good. I did submit a petition a few months back for this. Portuguese is a split language between portugal and brasil. Althought most of the romance language shared the same locales issues like long strings. In the past we used in Brazil the Portuguese (from Portugal) version of the translation, and it wasn't a 'happy experience' to our users, because some key works (as File) are transtaled using different words in Brazil (Arquivo) and Portugal (Ficheiro). All Portuguese (also speaken on some African and Asian countries) are now sharing the same orthography, but we still having different words to express the same things. I hope that in a few days I may present more about what we may do with Brazilian Portuguese, but yes, we would like to have a pt-br version too. Sorry for asking this later, but we're on the first day of FISL (www.fisl.org.br), a huge FLOSS event in Brazil. There will be a talk about Apache OpenOffice here on Saturday. Best, Jomar
Say Hello from chengjh
Hello All, This is Jian Hong Cheng from IBM China. I am a developer and technical lead, and have worked for serval projects based on OpenOffice.org for about 8 years. Currently, I am the technical lead of Lotus Symphony Documents and VBA. My focuses are sw, *filter, framework, sfx2, oox and so on. I am interesting to enhance these function areas and hope to deliver valuable features to satisfy end users. In the past, I also participated in the development of sd and relevant modules, such as svx and vcl, led the log system development of IBM Productivity Tools, etc. And now, we move from OpenOffice.org community to Apache. Although the community name is changed, our vision, our dreams are always the same...I hope to work with you all to make the new success to come true. Thanks... Best Regards! Jim Cheng (程建宏) IBM Lotus Symphony Development http://www.ibm.com/software/lotus/symphony/
