[OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION] FW: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Question regarding circulation policies
Hi All, Since participating in the Hackfest, I'm curious about this... As with the attached example, I see many instances on the General email list that a very busy contributor generously takes the time to give a comprehensive answer to a question. Would it be beneficial simply to add the text Launchpad to insure, if not already present, that the information resides in the documentation to perhaps become a starting point to fill it in. ... or maybe that's another action item for DIG to comb the General list discussions to pull out items that are useful to add... or perhaps someone has already done it? June From: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org [mailto:open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of Rogan Hamby Sent: Monday, December 16, 2013 2:11 PM To: Evergreen Discussion Group Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Question regarding circulation policies Hi Deana, Your question touches on the issues of weighting. Policies are made to use weights as you define them under Admin - Server Administration - Circulation Matchpoint Weights. So, if you put no weight to a given variable (user groups, location, circ mod, etc...) it actually won't matter at all. When a circulation is invoked the variables for the circulation are compared to those weights and the policies that could potentially be matched are looked at to see which is invoked. In case of a tie the lowest value id on in the table is used, IIRC. So, it's not so much a hierarchy as a which is the best match. Now, you could use weights and design your policies to create your own hierarchy (as we've done where each county has its own rules). To accomplish this our circ libraries have a very high weight so that their rules take effect. From there it actually benefits the more specific not the more generic. The next part I'm in danger of not explaining well and it's been a long time since I had to do so but I will try. Let's assume that you have a structure like Users - Patrons - Juveniles. Technically, a Juvenile is also a User but the Juvenile is more specific. So now let's assume that you define a policy so that it applies to all Users but another that specifies Juveniles (and all other variables are the same) and a patron goes to checkout. The patron is a Juvenile and thus by definition a User as well. But the Juvenile policy will take effect since it's a closer match to the patron and thus will end up with more weight. Does that make more sense? So, the more specific the better but depending on how you create your weights even a very specific match can be over ridden by something more general if you've given that other variable more weight. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Deana Cunningham deana.cunning...@granvillecounty.orgmailto:deana.cunning...@granvillecounty.org wrote: Hello again, We have a mishmash of circulation policies due primarily to my ignorance when we suddenly went live without a circ policy in sight! I ended up creating them on the fly as they were needed, and now I have a problem with items not charging the correct fines. The only place I've noticed it so far is with staff accounts, and we are all aware that Evergreen is charging staff fines when it shouldn't be, so we correct them as we go. What I am more concerned about is the patrons, who haven't got a clue whether we are over- or undercharging them. Anyway, my question is in regards to the hierarchy of policies. If there is a policy set at the Users level, does that policy supersede the Patron level policy? Common sense tells me that the lower level (Patron, in this example) should supersede Users, but I am just not sure. I am also in a bit of a conundrum about how to change circ policies with items currently circulating. We are getting a test server set up so I can try some things, but I'm not ever sure how I would tell what the ramifications are unless I set up fake checkouts on the test server for every type of item/patron combination, then change the circ policies and see what impact that has on current checkouts. Other areas of Evergreen seem to hold with the information available at the time of the transaction (i.e. if a book is checked out today with a circ policy that says it charges .15/day late fees, then tomorrow the policy is changed to .10/day late fees, the item will still be charged .15/day as that was the rule in place when it was checked out). Am I right about this? Thanks! Deana Deana Cunningham Branch Manager, South Branch Library 1550 S. Campus Dr. Creedmoor, NC 27522 Phone: (919) 528-1752tel:%28919%29%20528-1752 Fax: (919) 528-1376tel:%28919%29%20528-1376 deana.cunning...@granvillecounty.orgmailto:deana.cunning...@granvillecounty.org -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me. ― C.S.
Re: [OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION] FW: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Question regarding circulation policies
We probably should put a really thorough documentation of this somewhere with examples. I lean towards the WIKI personally but opinions may vary. To be clear a really good write up will take a lot more than the relatively quick answer I gave here. :) On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:20 AM, June Caola-Stokoe jsto...@cwmars.orgwrote: Hi All, Since participating in the Hackfest, I'm curious about this... As with the attached example, I see many instances on the General email list that a very busy contributor generously takes the time to give a comprehensive answer to a question. Would it be beneficial simply to add the text Launchpad to insure, if not already present, that the information resides in the documentation to perhaps become a starting point to fill it in. ... or maybe that's another action item for DIG to comb the General list discussions to pull out items that are useful to add... or perhaps someone has already done it? June *From:* open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org [mailto: open-ils-general-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] *On Behalf Of *Rogan Hamby *Sent:* Monday, December 16, 2013 2:11 PM *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Question regarding circulation policies Hi Deana, Your question touches on the issues of weighting. Policies are made to use weights as you define them under Admin - Server Administration - Circulation Matchpoint Weights. So, if you put no weight to a given variable (user groups, location, circ mod, etc...) it actually won't matter at all. When a circulation is invoked the variables for the circulation are compared to those weights and the policies that could potentially be matched are looked at to see which is invoked. In case of a tie the lowest value id on in the table is used, IIRC. So, it's not so much a hierarchy as a which is the best match. Now, you could use weights and design your policies to create your own hierarchy (as we've done where each county has its own rules). To accomplish this our circ libraries have a very high weight so that their rules take effect. From there it actually benefits the more specific not the more generic. The next part I'm in danger of not explaining well and it's been a long time since I had to do so but I will try. Let's assume that you have a structure like Users - Patrons - Juveniles. Technically, a Juvenile is also a User but the Juvenile is more specific. So now let's assume that you define a policy so that it applies to all Users but another that specifies Juveniles (and all other variables are the same) and a patron goes to checkout. The patron is a Juvenile and thus by definition a User as well. But the Juvenile policy will take effect since it's a closer match to the patron and thus will end up with more weight. Does that make more sense? So, the more specific the better but depending on how you create your weights even a very specific match can be over ridden by something more general if you've given that other variable more weight. On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 1:53 PM, Deana Cunningham deana.cunning...@granvillecounty.org wrote: Hello again, We have a mishmash of circulation policies due primarily to my ignorance when we suddenly went live without a circ policy in sight! I ended up creating them on the fly as they were needed, and now I have a problem with items not charging the correct fines. The only place I've noticed it so far is with staff accounts, and we are all aware that Evergreen is charging staff fines when it shouldn't be, so we correct them as we go. What I am more concerned about is the patrons, who haven't got a clue whether we are over- or undercharging them. Anyway, my question is in regards to the hierarchy of policies. If there is a policy set at the Users level, does that policy supersede the Patron level policy? Common sense tells me that the lower level (Patron, in this example) should supersede Users, but I am just not sure. I am also in a bit of a conundrum about how to change circ policies with items currently circulating. We are getting a test server set up so I can try some things, but I'm not ever sure how I would tell what the ramifications are unless I set up fake checkouts on the test server for every type of item/patron combination, then change the circ policies and see what impact that has on current checkouts. Other areas of Evergreen seem to hold with the information available at the time of the transaction (i.e. if a book is checked out today with a circ policy that says it charges .15/day late fees, then tomorrow the policy is changed to .10/day late fees, the item will still be charged .15/day as that was the rule in place when it was checked out). Am I right about this? Thanks! Deana Deana Cunningham Branch Manager, South Branch Library 1550 S. Campus Dr. Creedmoor, NC 27522 Phone: (919) 528-1752
Re: [OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION] FW: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Question regarding circulation policies
Yamil, I would argue that the documentation for this isn't incomplete or incorrect but maybe a third category of could be more robust. When you get into matchpoints and circ limits it can be pretty confusing, especially if libraries need to clean up messy migrations. Yes, we must move over all 200 of these labels into circ mods. 6 months later : Why did we do that? I'm not arguing against this kind of material going into the documentation (actually I like the idea of the documentation being really robust and having it) but I had always had the impression that it was seen as being more the domain of the WIKI. Thoughts? On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 11:36 AM, Yamil Suarez ysua...@berklee.edu wrote: The same thought had crossed my mind a while ago, but I never followed through. I had started combing the mailing list for mentions of incomplete or incorrect documentation to then assign to DIG volunteers. I will make a note to use the mailing list to look for good answers that can serve as the base of new documentation. Though some great answers in the past have to be updated to account for changes in EG over the years. We can also use this type of thinking to come up with an FAQ for the general list. Like listing where t find the official installation docs. Yamil On Dec 18, 2013, at 10:20 AM, June Caola-Stokoe jsto...@cwmars.org wrote: Hi All, Since participating in the Hackfest, I'm curious about this... As with the attached example, I see many instances on the General email list that a very busy contributor generously takes the time to give a comprehensive answer to a question. Would it be beneficial simply to add the text Launchpad to insure, if not already present, that the information resides in the documentation to perhaps become a starting point to fill it in. ... or maybe that's another action item for DIG to comb the General list discussions to pull out items that are useful to add... or perhaps someone has already done it? June ___ OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION mailing list OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION@list.georgialibraries.org http://list.georgialibraries.org/mailman/listinfo/open-ils-documentation -- Rogan Hamby, MLS, CCNP, MIA Managers Headquarters Library and Reference Services, York County Library System You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me. -- C.S. Lewis http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/1069006.C_S_Lewis ___ OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION mailing list OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION@list.georgialibraries.org http://list.georgialibraries.org/mailman/listinfo/open-ils-documentation
Re: [OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION] FW: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Question regarding circulation policies
+1 to this idea. I've also encountered several instances where the official documentation exists, and is correct, but is just too brief for me to understand. A few times I've been lucky enough to find a consortium that's documented the same feature/process in a more detailed way. It seems likely(?) that these places would be willing to have their stuff incorporated into the official docs, as long as someone else does the conversion. Kate Butler Technology Librarian Rodgers Memorial Library (Hudson, NH) http://www.rodgerslibrary.org/ -Original Message- From: open-ils-documentation-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org [mailto:open-ils-documentation-boun...@list.georgialibraries.org] On Behalf Of Yamil Suarez Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 11:37 AM To: Documentation discussion for Evergreen software Subject: Re: [OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION] FW: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] Question regarding circulation policies The same thought had crossed my mind a while ago, but I never followed through. I had started combing the mailing list for mentions of incomplete or incorrect documentation to then assign to DIG volunteers. I will make a note to use the mailing list to look for good answers that can serve as the base of new documentation. Though some great answers in the past have to be updated to account for changes in EG over the years. We can also use this type of thinking to come up with an FAQ for the general list. Like listing where t find the official installation docs. Yamil On Dec 18, 2013, at 10:20 AM, June Caola-Stokoe jsto...@cwmars.org wrote: Hi All, Since participating in the Hackfest, I'm curious about this... As with the attached example, I see many instances on the General email list that a very busy contributor generously takes the time to give a comprehensive answer to a question. Would it be beneficial simply to add the text Launchpad to insure, if not already present, that the information resides in the documentation to perhaps become a starting point to fill it in. ... or maybe that's another action item for DIG to comb the General list discussions to pull out items that are useful to add... or perhaps someone has already done it? June ___ OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION mailing list OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION@list.georgialibraries.org http://list.georgialibraries.org/mailman/listinfo/open-ils-documentation ___ OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION mailing list OPEN-ILS-DOCUMENTATION@list.georgialibraries.org http://list.georgialibraries.org/mailman/listinfo/open-ils-documentation
