Re: [OpenAFS] Package Management in AFS
Hi everybody, thank you very much for all your replies. Will surely look into all mentioned options. Bye... Dirk ___ OpenAFS-info mailing list OpenAFS-info@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
Re: [OpenAFS] Package Management in AFS
We manage 18,000 Unix/Linux machines via configuration files and packages stored in AFS. So far nothing else comes close to scaling as well as AFS. The configuration management system was developed in house. We edit in one place and the information is pulled (from AFS) by the client based on subscription-like "duties" on each afs client. Obviously, you have to run an afs client on every machine. We've been managing our environment this way for 15 years. --patty Dirk Heinrichs wrote: > Am 20.12.2010 19:26, schrieb Booker Bense: > >> My 2 cents... Outside of a few very specialized apps, putting software >> in AFS is a losing proposition these days. Since local disk space is >> growing so fast, there really is little justification for not simply >> using the package management system >> of the OS and simply installing locally. > > That would again mean that the sw had to be installed over and over > again, on every single machine. That may be OK for 2 or 5 machines, but > for a larger number this becomes a tedious task. And what about diskless > clients? > >> AFS is a great place to store rpms, dpkgs, etc... But there is so >> much sysadmin overhead in deploying apps in AFS, that unless you have a >> very standardized client base it simply isn't worth it for >> 99.9% of applications. > > I don't get that point. If there was an AFS aware package manager out > there (which was my question), then that overhead would drop to (nearly) > zero. > > Bye... > > Dirk > ___ > OpenAFS-info mailing list > OpenAFS-info@openafs.org > https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info ___ OpenAFS-info mailing list OpenAFS-info@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
Re: [OpenAFS] Package Management in AFS
On 2010-12-20 at 19:34, Dirk Heinrichs ( dirk.heinri...@altum.de ) said: Am 20.12.2010 19:26, schrieb Booker Bense: My 2 cents... Outside of a few very specialized apps, putting software in AFS is a losing proposition these days. Since local disk space is growing so fast, there really is little justification for not simply using the package management system of the OS and simply installing locally. Can't agree more. We use stow to install certain pieces of software into AFS, usually one-off and standalone scientific software (we're in bioinformatics). For everything else, we use the package manager. RPMs really are easy to make. Perhaps even easier than installing the same app in AFS. Even if there was something like rpm for afs, that would only make the two methods (installing on local disk or installing in afs) equivalent (ignoring any issues of permission). This also assumes you're running the same version of the same OS everywhere (for example, we use @sys symlinks, but in our environment amd64_linux26 isn't the same everywhere). Follow the principal of least work: Is it more work to install an app into AFS, or yum/apt-get/etc install. That would again mean that the sw had to be installed over and over again, on every single machine. That may be OK for 2 or 5 machines, but for a larger number this becomes a tedious task. And what about diskless clients? That's what cfengine or puppet are for. IMO, any time you have to manage 2 or more machines, you really do need something like cfengine to do complete configuration. If you can't blow away entire machines and have them automatically reinstall and converge back to their previous state, then you're really not managing your systems. --andy ___ OpenAFS-info mailing list OpenAFS-info@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
Re: [OpenAFS] Package Management in AFS
On 12/20/2010 12:46 PM, Dirk Heinrichs sent: > Hi, > > I'm currently thinking about a good way to deploy software packages in > (eventually replicated) AFS volumes. Probably not what you're looking for, but we have developed a tool in Perl to help with the AFS-specific bits of building and deploying traditional untar/configure/build/install packages into replicated AFS volumes across multiple architectures. We use it to maintain a couple of hundred pieces of software from source. Invocation with no parameters shows this: > $ pkg > > Usage: pkg create|delete|help|link|sys|split|unsplit|replicate|unreplicate > [pkgname-ver] > > where: > create create a package > delete delete a package > helpprint this message > linklink to package source > sys setup @sys dirs/links > split split package volume > unsplit reverse of split > replicate replicate a package > unreplicate unreplicate a package The idea here is that each package has a src tree, build trees linked back to the source, and install trees for each architecture we support. It also sets up appropriate PTS groups for maintainers of each package. It undoubtedly has a few hard-coded bits specific to our site (build machines for various architectures, file servers, etc.), but as it's one file they shouldn't be hard to find/fix. If you want more detail, drop me a line or read the source; it's here: /afs/isis.unc.edu/pkg/admin/bin/pkg Cheers, -- +--+ / todd_le...@unc.edu 919-445-9302 http://www.unc.edu/~utoddl / / Does the name Pavlov ring a bell? / +--+ ___ OpenAFS-info mailing list OpenAFS-info@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
Re: [OpenAFS] Package Management in AFS
Am 20.12.2010 19:26, schrieb Booker Bense: > My 2 cents... Outside of a few very specialized apps, putting software > in AFS is a losing proposition these days. Since local disk space is > growing so fast, there really is little justification for not simply > using the package management system > of the OS and simply installing locally. That would again mean that the sw had to be installed over and over again, on every single machine. That may be OK for 2 or 5 machines, but for a larger number this becomes a tedious task. And what about diskless clients? > AFS is a great place to store rpms, dpkgs, etc... But there is so > much sysadmin overhead in deploying apps in AFS, that unless you have a > very standardized client base it simply isn't worth it for > 99.9% of applications. I don't get that point. If there was an AFS aware package manager out there (which was my question), then that overhead would drop to (nearly) zero. Bye... Dirk ___ OpenAFS-info mailing list OpenAFS-info@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
Re: [OpenAFS] Package Management in AFS
On Mon, 20 Dec 2010, Dirk Heinrichs wrote: Hi, I'm currently thinking about a good way to deploy software packages in (eventually replicated) AFS volumes. One possible way I can think of is to use (x)stow, but that would imply a lot of manual work (download, unpack, compile, install to rw volume, xstow, vos release). Does anyone know of a simpler (more automated) solution, maybe something like Gentoo portage or Nix? My 2 cents... Outside of a few very specialized apps, putting software in AFS is a losing proposition these days. Since local disk space is growing so fast, there really is little justification for not simply using the package management system of the OS and simply installing locally. AFS is a great place to store rpms, dpkgs, etc... But there is so much sysadmin overhead in deploying apps in AFS, that unless you have a very standardized client base it simply isn't worth it for 99.9% of applications. - Booker C. Bense ___ OpenAFS-info mailing list OpenAFS-info@openafs.org https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
