SV: SV: More generic reference model

[Mikael Nyström]

Hi,

A related activity that might be useful to know is the "RFP for LOINC - SNOMED 
CT Cooperation Project". 
http://www.ihtsdo.org/news-articles/rfp-for-loinc--snomed-ct-cooperation-project
 .

 Regards
 Mikael

Från: openEHR-technical [mailto:openehr-technical-boun...@lists.openehr.org] 
För Bert Verhees
Skickat: den 9 september 2016 08:42
Till: openehr-technical@lists.openehr.org
Ämne: Re: SV: More generic reference model

Op 9-9-2016 om 8:37 schreef Bjørn Næss:
But in addition to that we need to map terms from different other terminologies 
like SNOMED-CT, LOINC and also Disease Ontologies.

There is a mapping effort by IHTSDO en Regenstrief, they started that a few 
years ago, and it will be finished, next year, I think.

http://www.ihtsdo.org/about-ihtsdo/partnerships/loinc
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Re: SV: More generic reference model

[Bert Verhees]

Op 9-9-2016 om 8:37 schreef Bjørn Næss:
But in addition to that we need to map terms from different other 
terminologies like SNOMED-CT, LOINC and also Disease Ontologies. 


There is a mapping effort by IHTSDO en Regenstrief, they started that a 
few years ago, and it will be finished, next year, I think.


http://www.ihtsdo.org/about-ihtsdo/partnerships/loinc

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SV: More generic reference model

[Bjørn Næss]

This is perfect timing with ongoing activities in Norway.
There is a government lead activity to explore how to use SNOMED-CT and openEHR 
archetypes together. The first domain is to use SNOMED-CT to define anatomical 
location and structures.

The most important outcome for this is to be able to reason over data and use 
the hierarchical structure to query for all entries in lower left limb which 
should include knee and meniscus entries (pseudo-definitions given here).

In parallel with this activity we are involved in a project where they will 
build an ontology of all entities and make that ontology model/platform as a 
basis to query data from different sources (systems). We are involved since we 
think openEHR reference model with archetypes is such an ontology. But in 
addition to that we need to map terms from different other terminologies like 
SNOMED-CT, LOINC and also Disease Ontologies.

In the end I think we need a shared pattern on how to model and implement this 
- and as mentioned the most important thing is to be able to do queries on this 
hierarchical/graph structured ontologies/terminologies.



/ Bjørn Næss - Product Owner  | DIPS ASA
Mobil +47 93 43 29 10

Fra: openEHR-technical [mailto:openehr-technical-boun...@lists.openehr.org] På 
vegne av Thomas Beale
Sendt: tirsdag 6. september 2016 23.04
Til: openehr-technical@lists.openehr.org
Emne: Re: More generic reference model




I will actually have some time to start to look at this in the next few weeks - 
i.e. to facilitate / coordinate some work, and possibly do some. I would 
propose to proceed as follows:

  *   gather current unmet requirements
  *   examine current state of AQL spec to clarify what it alredy says, what it 
lacks
  *   propose changes to AQL

The question of adding e.g. an Antlr grammar for the IHTSDO constraint 
expression syntax to AQL is almost trivial; the real question to me is: what is 
the querying + terminology interaction model we are trying to achieve.

So some example queries (pseudo-code is fine) would help. If Bert and others 
who want more progress can at least post some ideas at the requirements level - 
clear and succinct as possible please - it will help a lot.

Here is a wiki page for gathering this 
information.
 As usual, contributors should feel free to change it as required.

- thomas

On 06/09/2016 13:05, Bert Verhees wrote:
Op 6-9-2016 om 19:01 schreef Erik Sundvall:

Many of us think that a better integration of the openEHR and the Snomed CT 
modelling efforts would be great. But there are not enough resources (e.g. 
dedicated time of people with the right knowledge) being put into doing this, 
since this is hard (but interesting) work usually requiring somebody to pay 
people...

Hi Erik,

I do not want to undermine the value of your statement, contrary, I think it is 
very good when some organization or country builds the thing, the money 
involved is a piece of cake for such an entity.
Let the people with good connections start working on getting this arranged
The sooner the better!!!
---
But on the other hand, we should sit down and wait until something will happen.
First, I think, we need a list of requirements. We could start with that.
We need that anyway, even if someone succeeds in getting a big company or 
government to finance the project.

In my opinion, the most difficult work is the definition, following the (to be 
defined) requirements, how is this project going to look like?
Someone with experience in modeling modeling-languages and query-languages, 
someone who is clever in thinking about syntaxes and structures.

The implementing itself is easier, it is just programming. With help of ANTLR 
and a good definition, this will not be too hard.
Like there are written ADL-parsers/AQL-parsers as open source.
When there is a prototype ready, others can improve it, or inspired by a lousy 
prototype, start a new better one.
That is how open source usually works, and it can create big things. We know 
that.

I can help, I have knowledge of AQL, ADL, and SCT (expression constraints), 
enough of all three to add sensible ideas. But I cannot do it on my own.
I do not feel too confident. There is also a risk of failure when doing this 
alone.

So, to set up the requirements, how can we cooperate on that?
Do you have an idea?

Maybe a wiki? Someone needs to take the lead. Say how things are to be done, 
facilitates, etc.

Maybe it is too much to ask for someone to take the lead.
Let first inventory who wants to help. It will cost maybe a few hours in this 
initial phase.

--
So, who wants to help with this sub-project:
- having ideas about features
- set up requirements
- set up some global architecture ideas.