openEHR-technical Digest, Vol 35, Issue 33
Someone in the OpenEHR world created a nice CDA that uses archetypes. It was presented at several meetings in the HL7 space, in particular in the patient care workgroup. However, it was a powerpoint. The HL7 people asked for the ppt, but that was never delivered. The HL7 people asked the openEHR example of CDA with archetypes, but that was never delivered. So the solution was told to be exist (CDA filled with archetypes), but not made available. So it in fact does not exist. The world of CDA around the world talks a lot about templates. In all IGs there are specs how such a template should / would look. But after 15 years since the conceptualization of HL7 templates, these are non existent. (I mean not findable even to insiders). Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards, dr. William T.F. Goossen directeur Results 4 Care B.V. De Stinse 15 3823 VM Amersfoort the Netherlands telefoon +31654614458 e-mail: wgoossen at results4care.nl DCMHelpdesk at results4care.eu skype: williamgoossenmobiel kamer van koophandel 32133713 http://www.results4care.nl http://www.results4care.eu http://results4care.wikispaces.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/company/711047 http://results4care.wikispaces.com/3.+Cursussen+Nederlands -Original Message- From: openEHR-technical [mailto:openehr-technical-boun...@lists.openehr.org] On Behalf Of openehr-technical-request at lists.openehr.org Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 09:57 To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Subject: openEHR-technical Digest, Vol 35, Issue 33 Send openEHR-technical mailing list submissions to openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.or g or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to openehr-technical-request at lists.openehr.org You can reach the person managing the list at openehr-technical-owner at lists.openehr.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of openEHR-technical digest... Today's Topics: 1. RE: C-CDA was created because they do not know openEHR? :) (pablo pazos) 2. Re: C-CDA was created because they do not know openEHR? :) (Ian McNicoll) 3. Re: CRUD Restlet (Ralph van Etten) 4. Re:Re: CRUD Restlet (???) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 00:05:00 -0300 From: pablo pazos pazospa...@hotmail.com To: openeh technical openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Subject: RE: C-CDA was created because they do not know openEHR? :) Message-ID: SNT151-W25CFFA0E8D0F2B1F8C372AC84B0 at phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Great input, thanks! -- Kind regards, Eng. Pablo Pazos Guti?rrez http://cabolabs.com Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 10:42:54 +0800 From: edwin_ue...@163.com To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Subject: Re:C-CDA was created because they do not know openEHR? :) Dear sir, let me share a litttle thought of mine about this CCDA thing dating back to 2000, CDA is created and used in some places in USA and in 2005 it is evoved to Release 2, in that time ,there is not only one CDA for the clinical document representation in USA,for some continuity of care and specially for patient transfer between different facilities there is a standard named CCR, after some kinds of fighting,they all agreed to use CDA as the basic format or model to solve the continuity of care problem ,which became the most widely used across the whole world CCD(Continuity of Care Document) in 2007,in this CCD they defined different kinds of templates for vital signs and chief complaint and so on.after then IHE,HITSP and HL7 they create a bunch of other IG for different use cases, for example public health section .these all existing IGs contain a number of templates(section level and entry level ) inherit the constraints defined in the original CCD standards and inconsistency between these templates bring them a new level interoperability problem.in order to solve this mess they came to the idea to create a unified template library based on these efforts these SDO and agency have done. at last I want to say maybe CDA is not that widely used across the world,openEHR is definitely less. kind regards -- ???15901958021 At 2015-01-20 10:19:24, pablo pazos pazospablo at hotmail.com wrote: Just for the sake of discussion, See slides 22 and 23: http://www.healthit.gov/sites/default/files/c-cda_and_meaningfulusecertifica tion.pdf As disparate SDOs (HL7, IHE, HITSP, etc.) developed CDA IGs, multiple approaches for documenting template requirements began to diverge threatening interoperability? IG = Implementation Guide So my wild guess is they created a new artifact with the same problems the current artifacts have, like the need for an IG, instead of doing a little research and find a better
openEHR-technical Digest, Vol 35, Issue 33
HI William, I know for a fact that archetype-based CDAs do/did exist, because Ocean built them for Nehta (not many though, it's not that easy to do it). However, Nehta is notoriously sensitive with IP, and may well have refused them to be made public. I have also seen some other technical solutions, something like proof-of-concept level solutions with CDA containing archetyped data; none of these was operationalised (it was done in Aus and UK). I have no idea if any of these are alive today, or even relevant. So at a practical level, you may be right ;-) I suspect the only place to get any serious CDA templates at all is MDHT / VHA. I have no idea on the current status there though. By the way, in case you are interested, we will have single-file ADL 2 templates demonstrable in the next ADL Workbench, and I will post some early information / screen shots here imminently. - thomas On 20/01/2015 16:27, William Goossen wrote: Someone in the OpenEHR world created a nice CDA that uses archetypes. It was presented at several meetings in the HL7 space, in particular in the patient care workgroup. However, it was a powerpoint. The HL7 people asked for the ppt, but that was never delivered. The HL7 people asked the openEHR example of CDA with archetypes, but that was never delivered. So the solution was told to be exist (CDA filled with archetypes), but not made available. So it in fact does not exist. The world of CDA around the world talks a lot about templates. In all IGs there are specs how such a template should / would look. But after 15 years since the conceptualization of HL7 templates, these are non existent. (I mean not findable even to insiders).
openEHR-technical Digest, Vol 35, Issue 33
When you talk about 'CDA with archetypes', what do you exactly mean? 1) An example of embedding an archetyped openEHR instance in a CDA document. 2) An example of the use of creating CDA templates equivalent to openEHR archetypes (or vice-versa). 3) An example of CDA templates defined as AOM archetypes using CDA Reference Model. The last one is how we approached the problem and has been presented in several forums, with several examples already publicly available. 2015-01-20 17:27 GMT+01:00 William Goossen wgoossen at results4care.nl: Someone in the OpenEHR world created a nice CDA that uses archetypes. It was presented at several meetings in the HL7 space, in particular in the patient care workgroup. However, it was a powerpoint. The HL7 people asked for the ppt, but that was never delivered. The HL7 people asked the openEHR example of CDA with archetypes, but that was never delivered. So the solution was told to be exist (CDA filled with archetypes), but not made available. So it in fact does not exist. The world of CDA around the world talks a lot about templates. In all IGs there are specs how such a template should / would look. But after 15 years since the conceptualization of HL7 templates, these are non existent. (I mean not findable even to insiders). Met vriendelijke groet / With kind regards, dr. William T.F. Goossen directeur Results 4 Care B.V. De Stinse 15 3823 VM Amersfoort the Netherlands telefoon +31654614458 e-mail: wgoossen at results4care.nl DCMHelpdesk at results4care.eu skype: williamgoossenmobiel kamer van koophandel 32133713 http://www.results4care.nl http://www.results4care.eu http://results4care.wikispaces.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/company/711047 http://results4care.wikispaces.com/3.+Cursussen+Nederlands -Original Message- From: openEHR-technical [mailto:openehr-technical-bounces at lists.openehr.org] On Behalf Of openehr-technical-request at lists.openehr.org Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 09:57 To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Subject: openEHR-technical Digest, Vol 35, Issue 33 Send openEHR-technical mailing list submissions to openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.or g or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to openehr-technical-request at lists.openehr.org You can reach the person managing the list at openehr-technical-owner at lists.openehr.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of openEHR-technical digest... Today's Topics: 1. RE: C-CDA was created because they do not know openEHR? :) (pablo pazos) 2. Re: C-CDA was created because they do not know openEHR? :) (Ian McNicoll) 3. Re: CRUD Restlet (Ralph van Etten) 4. Re:Re: CRUD Restlet (???) -- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 00:05:00 -0300 From: pablo pazos pazospablo at hotmail.com To: openeh technical openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Subject: RE: C-CDA was created because they do not know openEHR? :) Message-ID: SNT151-W25CFFA0E8D0F2B1F8C372AC84B0 at phx.gbl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Great input, thanks! -- Kind regards, Eng. Pablo Pazos Guti?rrez http://cabolabs.com Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2015 10:42:54 +0800 From: edwin_uestc at 163.com To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org Subject: Re:C-CDA was created because they do not know openEHR? :) Dear sir, let me share a litttle thought of mine about this CCDA thing dating back to 2000, CDA is created and used in some places in USA and in 2005 it is evoved to Release 2, in that time ,there is not only one CDA for the clinical document representation in USA,for some continuity of care and specially for patient transfer between different facilities there is a standard named CCR, after some kinds of fighting,they all agreed to use CDA as the basic format or model to solve the continuity of care problem ,which became the most widely used across the whole world CCD(Continuity of Care Document) in 2007,in this CCD they defined different kinds of templates for vital signs and chief complaint and so on.after then IHE,HITSP and HL7 they create a bunch of other IG for different use cases, for example public health section .these all existing IGs contain a number of templates(section level and entry level ) inherit the constraints defined in the original CCD standards and inconsistency between these templates bring them a new level interoperability problem.in order to solve this mess they came to the idea to create a unified template library based on these efforts these SDO and agency have done. at last I want to say maybe CDA is not that widely used across the world,openEHR is definitely
openEHR-technical Digest, Vol 35, Issue 33
Hi Tom, In fact this was demonstrated at MIE in 2007 and again at least once if not twice at HIC as part of IHE showcase that included storing the result in the GE XDS. Chris Lindop and other HL7 members were involved in the overall showcase so they new it existed for real. This had nothing to do with NEHTA but we certainly discussed with them and they still ask questions every now and then. It is likely that we will be doing thus in a production system in the not to distant future depending in what a receiving system wants to receive. Whenever we have discussed with a customer/vendor the options to use CDA or TDD/openEHR, the later is chosen. If HL7 people asked for it then they asked the wrong people. I guess they didn't really want to know about it. Heath Original Message Subject: Re: openEHR-technical Digest, Vol 35, Issue 33 From: Thomas Beale thomas.be...@oceaninformatics.com To: openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org openehr-technical at lists.openehr.org CC: HI William, I know for a fact that archetype-based CDAs do/did exist, because Ocean built them for Nehta (not many though, it's not that easy to do it). However, Nehta is notoriously sensitive with IP, and may well have refused them to be made public. I have also seen some other technical solutions, something like proof-of-concept level solutions with CDA containing archetyped data; none of these was operationalised (it was done in Aus and UK). I have no idea if any of these are alive today, or even relevant. So at a practical level, you may be right ;-) I suspect the only place to get any serious CDA templates at all is MDHT / VHA. I have no idea on the current status there though. By the way, in case you are interested, we will have single-file ADL 2 templates demonstrable in the next ADL Workbench, and I will post some early information / screen shots here imminently. - thomas On 20/01/2015 16:27, William Goossen wrote: Someone in the OpenEHR world created a nice CDA that uses archetypes. It was presented at several meetings in the HL7 space, in particular in the patient care workgroup. However, it was a powerpoint. The HL7 people asked for the ppt, but that was never delivered. The HL7 people asked the openEHR example of CDA with archetypes, but that was never delivered. So the solution was told to be exist (CDA filled with archetypes), but not made available. So it in fact does not exist. The world of CDA around the world talks a lot about templates. In all IGs there are specs how such a template should / would look. But after 15 years since the conceptualization of HL7 templates, these are non existent. (I mean not findable even to insiders). ___ openEHR-technical mailing list openEHR-technical at lists.openehr.org http://lists.openehr.org/mailman/listinfo/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.openehr.org/pipermail/openehr-technical_lists.openehr.org/attachments/20150120/cca21d89/attachment.html
