Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Boot hangs after configuring devices (last notice is of pseudo devices
> On 24. Mar 2023, at 07:58, Stephan Althaus > wrote: > > On 3/22/23 20:56, Richard Lowe wrote: >> The challenge of answering that is you often don't know the answer >> until you see it >> >> The ::stacks command will give you asummarized view of every kernel >> thread's stack >> the ::cpuinfo -v command will show you what the CPUs are doing now (or >> were doing, before you got into kmdb). >> >> Both or either might have a smoking gun of some kind, but it's hard to >> predict what it might look like. >> >> ___ >> openindiana-discuss mailing list >> openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org >> https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > > Hello! > > In one of my earlier update-tests i had a problem with the first > OI-nvidia-525 version in cooperation with Virtualbox, > so i had the idea to test this: > > I uninstalled 'userland-incorporation' and 'entire' as prerequisite to > install nvidia version 515, > now it boots! > > So, nvidia in the most recent version 525 stopped the boot process. (?) > > i checked with NVidia Solaris Driver Archive that my chipset (Quadro M1200) > is on the supported list for this version: > https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/199661/en-us/ > > > How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process ? > How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process > without further notice? > That is something one can work out with debugger. But, this is binary only driver? Built *for Oracle Solaris 11.4*? With API interfaces changed inside Oracle Solaris? This means, the question is not “if” but “when” - it is only question of time when such drivers become unusable for us. Without gfx driver development, the desktop variant of illumos is dead end. rgds, toomas ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Boot hangs after configuring devices (last notice is of pseudo devices
On 3/24/23 08:16, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: On 24. Mar 2023, at 07:58, Stephan Althaus wrote: On 3/22/23 20:56, Richard Lowe wrote: The challenge of answering that is you often don't know the answer until you see it The ::stacks command will give you asummarized view of every kernel thread's stack the ::cpuinfo -v command will show you what the CPUs are doing now (or were doing, before you got into kmdb). Both or either might have a smoking gun of some kind, but it's hard to predict what it might look like. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss Hello! In one of my earlier update-tests i had a problem with the first OI-nvidia-525 version in cooperation with Virtualbox, so i had the idea to test this: I uninstalled 'userland-incorporation' and 'entire' as prerequisite to install nvidia version 515, now it boots! So, nvidia in the most recent version 525 stopped the boot process. (?) i checked with NVidia Solaris Driver Archive that my chipset (Quadro M1200) is on the supported list for this version: https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/199661/en-us/ How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process ? How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process without further notice? That is something one can work out with debugger. But, this is binary only driver? Built *for Oracle Solaris 11.4*? With API interfaces changed inside Oracle Solaris? This means, the question is not “if” but “when” - it is only question of time when such drivers become unusable for us. Without gfx driver development, the desktop variant of illumos is dead end. without desktop, it would unfortunately mean the dead of illumos. If Oracle solaris drivers become unusable shouldn't illumos move to another driver interface that is maintained ? Best regards Marc rgds, toomas ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Boot hangs after configuring devices (last notice is of pseudo devices
On 3/24/23 09:50, Udo Grabowski (IMK) wrote: On 24/03/2023 09:43, Marc Lobelle wrote: On 3/24/23 08:16, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: On 24. Mar 2023, at 07:58, Stephan Althaus wrote: On 3/22/23 20:56, Richard Lowe wrote: The challenge of answering that is you often don't know the answer until you see it The ::stacks command will give you asummarized view of every kernel thread's stack the ::cpuinfo -v command will show you what the CPUs are doing now (or were doing, before you got into kmdb). Both or either might have a smoking gun of some kind, but it's hard to predict what it might look like. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss Hello! In one of my earlier update-tests i had a problem with the first OI-nvidia-525 version in cooperation with Virtualbox, so i had the idea to test this: I uninstalled 'userland-incorporation' and 'entire' as prerequisite to install nvidia version 515, now it boots! So, nvidia in the most recent version 525 stopped the boot process. (?) i checked with NVidia Solaris Driver Archive that my chipset (Quadro M1200) is on the supported list for this version: https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/199661/en-us/ How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process ? How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process without further notice? That is something one can work out with debugger. But, this is binary only driver? Built *for Oracle Solaris 11.4*? With API interfaces changed inside Oracle Solaris? This means, the question is not “if” but “when” - it is only question of time when such drivers become unusable for us. Without gfx driver development, the desktop variant of illumos is dead end. without desktop, it would unfortunately mean the dead of illumos. If Oracle solaris drivers become unusable shouldn't illumos move to another driver interface that is maintained ? Maybe we wait until the cause for the problem is known before declaring everything dead ? ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss Maybe it's only because i use legacy boot or some Dell bios specific special case... ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Boot hangs after configuring, devices (last notice is of pseudo devices
On 24. Mar 2023, at 10:50, Udo Grabowski (IMK) wrote: On 24/03/2023 09:43, Marc Lobelle wrote: On 3/24/23 08:16, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: On 24. Mar 2023, at 07:58, Stephan Althaus wrote: On 3/22/23 20:56, Richard Lowe wrote: The challenge of answering that is you often don't know the answer until you see it The ::stacks command will give you asummarized view of every kernel thread's stack the ::cpuinfo -v command will show you what the CPUs are doing now (or were doing, before you got into kmdb). Both or either might have a smoking gun of some kind, but it's hard to predict what it might look like. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss Hello! In one of my earlier update-tests i had a problem with the first OI-nvidia-525 version in cooperation with Virtualbox, so i had the idea to test this: I uninstalled 'userland-incorporation' and 'entire' as prerequisite to install nvidia version 515, now it boots! So, nvidia in the most recent version 525 stopped the boot process. (?) i checked with NVidia Solaris Driver Archive that my chipset (Quadro M1200) is on the supported list for this version: https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/199661/en-us/ How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process ? How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process without further notice? That is something one can work out with debugger. But, this is binary only driver? Built *for Oracle Solaris 11.4*? With API interfaces changed inside Oracle Solaris? This means, the question is not ?if? but ?when? - it is only question of time when such drivers become unusable for us. Without gfx driver development, the desktop variant of illumos is dead end. without desktop, it would unfortunately mean the dead of illumos. If Oracle solaris drivers become unusable shouldn't illumos move to another driver interface that is maintained ? Maybe we wait until the cause for the problem is known before declaring everything dead ? It is a bit premature to declare everything dead, but, the fact is, we can not rely on binary only drivers forever. As soon as Oracle will decide to stop distributing Solaris, nvidia will have no reason to distribute those binary drivers. Note, we *still* do rely on few closed binaries to distribute illumos itself. rgds, toomas There was a feature request #8069 for AMDGPU support which is the latest open source AMD driver for AMD graphics cards, given how AMD has improved their CPUs and Graphics Cards under Lisa Su, would now be the time to consider adding better support for AMD cards. Kind Regards Russell ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Boot hangs after configuring devices (last notice is of pseudo devices
On 24/03/2023 09:43, Marc Lobelle wrote: On 3/24/23 08:16, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: On 24. Mar 2023, at 07:58, Stephan Althaus wrote: On 3/22/23 20:56, Richard Lowe wrote: The challenge of answering that is you often don't know the answer until you see it The ::stacks command will give you asummarized view of every kernel thread's stack the ::cpuinfo -v command will show you what the CPUs are doing now (or were doing, before you got into kmdb). Both or either might have a smoking gun of some kind, but it's hard to predict what it might look like. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss Hello! In one of my earlier update-tests i had a problem with the first OI-nvidia-525 version in cooperation with Virtualbox, so i had the idea to test this: I uninstalled 'userland-incorporation' and 'entire' as prerequisite to install nvidia version 515, now it boots! So, nvidia in the most recent version 525 stopped the boot process. (?) i checked with NVidia Solaris Driver Archive that my chipset (Quadro M1200) is on the supported list for this version: https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/199661/en-us/ How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process ? How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process without further notice? That is something one can work out with debugger. But, this is binary only driver? Built *for Oracle Solaris 11.4*? With API interfaces changed inside Oracle Solaris? This means, the question is not “if” but “when” - it is only question of time when such drivers become unusable for us. Without gfx driver development, the desktop variant of illumos is dead end. without desktop, it would unfortunately mean the dead of illumos. If Oracle solaris drivers become unusable shouldn't illumos move to another driver interface that is maintained ? Maybe we wait until the cause for the problem is known before declaring everything dead ? ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Boot hangs after configuring devices (last notice is of pseudo devices
> On 24. Mar 2023, at 10:50, Udo Grabowski (IMK) wrote: > > > > On 24/03/2023 09:43, Marc Lobelle wrote: >> On 3/24/23 08:16, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: >>> On 24. Mar 2023, at 07:58, Stephan Althaus wrote: On 3/22/23 20:56, Richard Lowe wrote: > The challenge of answering that is you often don't know the answer > until you see it > > The ::stacks command will give you asummarized view of every kernel > thread's stack > the ::cpuinfo -v command will show you what the CPUs are doing now (or > were doing, before you got into kmdb). > > Both or either might have a smoking gun of some kind, but it's hard to > predict what it might look like. > > ___ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss Hello! In one of my earlier update-tests i had a problem with the first OI-nvidia-525 version in cooperation with Virtualbox, so i had the idea to test this: I uninstalled 'userland-incorporation' and 'entire' as prerequisite to install nvidia version 515, now it boots! So, nvidia in the most recent version 525 stopped the boot process. (?) i checked with NVidia Solaris Driver Archive that my chipset (Quadro M1200) is on the supported list for this version: https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/199661/en-us/ How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process ? How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process without further notice? >>> That is something one can work out with debugger. But, this is binary only >>> driver? Built *for Oracle Solaris 11.4*? With API interfaces changed inside >>> Oracle Solaris? This means, the question is not “if” but “when” - it is >>> only question of time when such drivers become unusable for us. Without gfx >>> driver development, the desktop variant of illumos is dead end. >> without desktop, it would unfortunately mean the dead of illumos. If Oracle >> solaris drivers become unusable shouldn't illumos move to another driver >> interface that is maintained ? > > Maybe we wait until the cause for the problem is known before > declaring everything dead ? > It is a bit premature to declare everything dead, but, the fact is, we can not rely on binary only drivers forever. As soon as Oracle will decide to stop distributing Solaris, nvidia will have no reason to distribute those binary drivers. Note, we *still* do rely on few closed binaries to distribute illumos itself. rgds, toomas ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Boot hangs after configuring, devices (last notice is of pseudo devices
Am 24.03.23 um 11:02 schrieb russell: On 24. Mar 2023, at 10:50, Udo Grabowski (IMK) wrote: On 24/03/2023 09:43, Marc Lobelle wrote: On 3/24/23 08:16, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: On 24. Mar 2023, at 07:58, Stephan Althaus wrote: On 3/22/23 20:56, Richard Lowe wrote: The challenge of answering that is you often don't know the answer until you see it The ::stacks command will give you asummarized view of every kernel thread's stack the ::cpuinfo -v command will show you what the CPUs are doing now (or were doing, before you got into kmdb). Both or either might have a smoking gun of some kind, but it's hard to predict what it might look like. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss Hello! In one of my earlier update-tests i had a problem with the first OI-nvidia-525 version in cooperation with Virtualbox, so i had the idea to test this: I uninstalled 'userland-incorporation' and 'entire' as prerequisite to install nvidia version 515, now it boots! So, nvidia in the most recent version 525 stopped the boot process. (?) i checked with NVidia Solaris Driver Archive that my chipset (Quadro M1200) is on the supported list for this version: https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/199661/en-us/ How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process ? How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process without further notice? That is something one can work out with debugger. But, this is binary only driver? Built *for Oracle Solaris 11.4*? With API interfaces changed inside Oracle Solaris? This means, the question is not ?if? but ?when? - it is only question of time when such drivers become unusable for us. Without gfx driver development, the desktop variant of illumos is dead end. without desktop, it would unfortunately mean the dead of illumos. If Oracle solaris drivers become unusable shouldn't illumos move to another driver interface that is maintained ? Maybe we wait until the cause for the problem is known before declaring everything dead ? It is a bit premature to declare everything dead, but, the fact is, we can not rely on binary only drivers forever. As soon as Oracle will decide to stop distributing Solaris, nvidia will have no reason to distribute those binary drivers. Note, we *still* do rely on few closed binaries to distribute illumos itself. rgds, toomas There was a feature request #8069 for AMDGPU support which is the latest open source AMD driver for AMD graphics cards, given how AMD has improved their CPUs and Graphics Cards under Lisa Su, would now be the time to consider adding better support for AMD cards. Kind Regards Russell ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss We need people to do the work. Alas we seem to lack companies interested in desktop usage and thus there is absolutely no interest in funding/supporting illumos driver development for graphics cards and other desktop related areas. I myself am missing support for Blutooth LE which is being used in newer mice and keyboards (eg. from Logitech). Regards Andreas ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
Re: [OpenIndiana-discuss] Boot hangs after configuring devices (last notice is of pseudo devices
On 24/03/2023 10:03, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: On 24. Mar 2023, at 10:50, Udo Grabowski (IMK) wrote: On 24/03/2023 09:43, Marc Lobelle wrote: On 3/24/23 08:16, Toomas Soome via openindiana-discuss wrote: On 24. Mar 2023, at 07:58, Stephan Althaus wrote: On 3/22/23 20:56, Richard Lowe wrote: The challenge of answering that is you often don't know the answer until you see it The ::stacks command will give you asummarized view of every kernel thread's stack the ::cpuinfo -v command will show you what the CPUs are doing now (or were doing, before you got into kmdb). Both or either might have a smoking gun of some kind, but it's hard to predict what it might look like. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss Hello! In one of my earlier update-tests i had a problem with the first OI-nvidia-525 version in cooperation with Virtualbox, so i had the idea to test this: I uninstalled 'userland-incorporation' and 'entire' as prerequisite to install nvidia version 515, now it boots! So, nvidia in the most recent version 525 stopped the boot process. (?) i checked with NVidia Solaris Driver Archive that my chipset (Quadro M1200) is on the supported list for this version: https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/199661/en-us/ How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process ? How/Why should the display driver be able to interrupt the boot process without further notice? That is something one can work out with debugger. But, this is binary only driver? Built *for Oracle Solaris 11.4*? With API interfaces changed inside Oracle Solaris? This means, the question is not “if” but “when” - it is only question of time when such drivers become unusable for us. Without gfx driver development, the desktop variant of illumos is dead end. without desktop, it would unfortunately mean the dead of illumos. If Oracle solaris drivers become unusable shouldn't illumos move to another driver interface that is maintained ? Maybe we wait until the cause for the problem is known before declaring everything dead ? It is a bit premature to declare everything dead, but, the fact is, we can not rely on binary only drivers forever. As soon as Oracle will decide to stop distributing Solaris, nvidia will have no reason to distribute those binary drivers. Solaris is officially supported until 2030, so there's (at least formally) time left as long as the ABI does not become incompatible without a possible workaround. And after that, old drivers will still work until new graphics cards appear. So there's time to work on a possible migration path. ___ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
