Re: [osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
On Mon 12/05/05 at 14:44 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Thanks Al and Nils. Now that some consensus has been reached, the > BrandZ community will be created. Community leads can make the > decision to make the community visible when their content is ready. Excellent. Thanks, Nils ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
* Nils Nieuwejaar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-12-05 12:00]: > > - a verification that the proposed community's leads and the Zones > > community leads were not able to share the Zones community with the > > union of those sets of leads, and > > While it would be possible for BrandZ and Zones to share a single community, > the amount of overlap would likely be fairly small. Most people who are > interested in zones will have little interest in BrandZ, and vice versa. I > talked > about this offline with Dan, who originally proposed the joint community, and > he > is OK with the current proposal to split the two. > > > - that investigation of an umbrella Virtualization community is not > > being pursued in the near term. > > It is not. If opensolaris.org introduces a notion of meta-communities or > community clusters in the future, we will revisit this idea. Thanks Al and Nils. Now that some consensus has been reached, the BrandZ community will be created. Community leads can make the decision to make the community visible when their content is ready. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
> - a verification that the proposed community's leads and the Zones > community leads were not able to share the Zones community with the > union of those sets of leads, and While it would be possible for BrandZ and Zones to share a single community, the amount of overlap would likely be fairly small. Most people who are interested in zones will have little interest in BrandZ, and vice versa. I talked about this offline with Dan, who originally proposed the joint community, and he is OK with the current proposal to split the two. > - that investigation of an umbrella Virtualization community is not > being pursued in the near term. It is not. If opensolaris.org introduces a notion of meta-communities or community clusters in the future, we will revisit this idea. Nils This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
* Matthew Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-08 09:53]: > > "SH" == Stephen Hahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > SH> As as additional comment, "marketing names" are associated with > SH> distributions and not the source tree shared across the community. > > So are we going to maintain a separate mapping somewhere so that users coming > to the OpenSolaris pages from a Solaris-based existence know how to find the > communities that correspond to the Solaris features they've come to know and > love? There are a couple of communities that might choose to do that on opensolaris.org; with respect to Sun, sun.com is the appropriate place to connect named technologies to the communities/projects from which they originate. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
> "SH" == Stephen Hahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: SH> As as additional comment, "marketing names" are associated with SH> distributions and not the source tree shared across the community. So are we going to maintain a separate mapping somewhere so that users coming to the OpenSolaris pages from a Solaris-based existence know how to find the communities that correspond to the Solaris features they've come to know and love? Matt -- Matt Simmons - [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Solaris Kernel - New York Is it time for your medication or mine? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
* Matthew Simmons <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [2005-11-08 09:15]: > I don't see the problem with using the code name for a project as the > community name, knowing that later on you may need to rename the > community when marketing invents a new name for it. Try as we might, > we're never going to guess that name in advance. The infrastructure team is extremely uninterested in supporting project or community renames after they go live. As as additional comment, "marketing names" are associated with distributions and not the source tree shared across the community. - Stephen -- Stephen Hahn, PhD Solaris Kernel Development, Sun Microsystems [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://blogs.sun.com/sch/ ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
On Tue, Nov 08, 2005 at 10:15:54AM -0500, Nils Nieuwejaar wrote: > > Ok. I wasn't aware that BrandX was a feature name. Thanks for > > clarifying that. I had seem some discussions which led me to be > > confused on that point-- and that the name would be much more closely > > associated with zones. > > The product we ship to customers will not be called BrandX. That will have > a marketing-blessed name that stresses the zoneyness of it. BrandX is just > the name of the infrastructure, which only engineers should ever care > about. Don't you mean the "Solaris Container-yness" or possibly, if you're old school, the "N1 Grid Container-yness"? Adam -- Adam Leventhal, Solaris Kernel Development http://blogs.sun.com/ahl ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
I don't see the problem with using the code name for a project as the community name, knowing that later on you may need to rename the community when marketing invents a new name for it. Try as we might, we're never going to guess that name in advance. Matt -- Matt Simmons - [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Solaris Kernel - New York Whose cruel idea was it for the word "lisp" to have an "s" in it? ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
On Mon 11/07/05 at 21:33 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > On Mon 07 Nov 2005 at 11:57AM, Adam Leventhal wrote: > > Dan, > > > > I think the type of discussion and interest around BrandX is likely to > > be orthogonal to that of Zones. Without completely spoiling the > > surprise, BrandX hopes to publish interfaces where Zones could take on > > personalities for RedHat, FreeBSD, AIX, Mac OS X or whatever. I imagine > > much of the discussion may focus on the specifics of using those > > interfaces and differences between the Zone personality and the real > > deal. Those discussions seem very much distinct from the Zones community. > > Ok. I wasn't aware that BrandX was a feature name. Thanks for > clarifying that. I had seem some discussions which led me to be > confused on that point-- and that the name would be much more closely > associated with zones. The product we ship to customers will not be called BrandX. That will have a marketing-blessed name that stresses the zoneyness of it. BrandX is just the name of the infrastructure, which only engineers should ever care about. Your original message also expressed a concern that the name was a codeword whose meaning would lapse into obscurity over time. I don't see that as an issue because the term 'brand' is used throughout the documentation, the code, and even the interfaces. > As for the degree of overlap or not-- What's the point of BrandX? Is it > migration from other platforms, server consolidation, application > capture? I guess it is some of each. To the degree that it is > reinforcing that Zones is an important and useful consolidation > facility, it has overlap. > > It sounds like no one agrees with me, so I'm willing to withdraw my > objection. I would however request that the BrandX community web site > owners work with their Zones counterparts to set up appropriate cross > links. Not so fast, Sparky. I am mostly in agreement with you. BrandX really is all about zones, and some of the future enhancements we've discussed are zones features at least as much as they are BrandX features. I think there is a lot to be said for putting this community within the greater zones community. The problem right now is that there is no real mechanism in place to create nested communities. We could probably cobble something together, but a little bird (OK, a really big bird) tells me that there is already work being done to come up with a real solution to the problem. I think it makes sense to create this as a top-level community now, and then to move it into an overall Virtualization meta-community (or whatever) along with Zones and Xen if/when that capability exists. > > Further, having branded-zones-discuss really obscures what I think will > > be a hot community and one in which we've already seen tremendous interest. > > I'll ignore the implied not-hotness of the Zones community :) Yeah, you guys are so 2005. Nils ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
On Mon 07 Nov 2005 at 11:57AM, Adam Leventhal wrote: > Dan, > > I think the type of discussion and interest around BrandX is likely to > be orthogonal to that of Zones. Without completely spoiling the > surprise, BrandX hopes to publish interfaces where Zones could take on > personalities for RedHat, FreeBSD, AIX, Mac OS X or whatever. I imagine > much of the discussion may focus on the specifics of using those > interfaces and differences between the Zone personality and the real > deal. Those discussions seem very much distinct from the Zones community. Ok. I wasn't aware that BrandX was a feature name. Thanks for clarifying that. I had seem some discussions which led me to be confused on that point-- and that the name would be much more closely associated with zones. I was concerned that people would face a choice between "branded zones" and "zones" and then would be all confused. We can followup off alias about whatever marketing is doing with naming. As for the degree of overlap or not-- What's the point of BrandX? Is it migration from other platforms, server consolidation, application capture? I guess it is some of each. To the degree that it is reinforcing that Zones is an important and useful consolidation facility, it has overlap. It sounds like no one agrees with me, so I'm willing to withdraw my objection. I would however request that the BrandX community web site owners work with their Zones counterparts to set up appropriate cross links. > Further, having branded-zones-discuss really obscures what I think will > be a hot community and one in which we've already seen tremendous interest. I'll ignore the implied not-hotness of the Zones community :) I wasn't trying to mandate the name branded-zones-discuss; I was just trying to point out that we have the technology to associate multiple mailing lists under one community. Thanks, -dp -- Daniel Price - Solaris Kernel Engineering - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - blogs.sun.com/dp ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
Dan, I think the type of discussion and interest around BrandX is likely to be orthogonal to that of Zones. Without completely spoiling the surprise, BrandX hopes to publish interfaces where Zones could take on personalities for RedHat, FreeBSD, AIX, Mac OS X or whatever. I imagine much of the discussion may focus on the specifics of using those interfaces and differences between the Zone personality and the real deal. Those discussions seem very much distinct from the Zones community. BrandX is also unlikely to be a code name any more than Zones, DTrace, or FMA are code names. All those names are reflected in the interfaces and commands associated with those project and BrandX will be no different. Further, having branded-zones-discuss really obscures what I think will be a hot community and one in which we've already seen tremendous interest. Adam On Sun, Nov 06, 2005 at 11:54:03PM -0800, Dan Price wrote: > Nils-- I'm wondering if we are too closely mirroring the details > of Sun's internal organizational hierarchy with our selection of > communities. And I think that 'BrandX' is going to feel confusing > to folks 24 months down the line, when the memory of that code name > is hazy, don't you? > > Might 'branded-zones' be a logical part of the zones community? > I'm concerned that for folks casually browsing, things may otherwise > become confusing. We can obviously refactor the zones community site as > needed in cooperation with you and your team. > > As a side note, a single community can support multiple mailing lists, > so there would be no problem with having branded-zones-discuss as an > alias. Thoughts? > > -dp > > -- > Daniel Price - Solaris Kernel Engineering - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - > blogs.sun.com/dp > ___ > opensolaris-discuss mailing list > opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org -- Adam Leventhal, Solaris Kernel Development http://blogs.sun.com/ahl ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
Re: [osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
On Fri 04 Nov 2005 at 02:15PM, Nils Nieuwejaar wrote: > As Tim mentioned, we are actively working on a framework that will > allow for the creation of zones that run non-Solaris user space > environments. We are using the term "BrandX" to refer to the > framework, and the environments that plug into the framework are > called "Brands". > > We are still quite a way from being ready to put this framework back > into Solaris, but it is rapidly approaching the point where it could > be usable by those willing to put up with some rough edges. Our plan > is to release the code through OpenSolaris in the near future, as a > branch off the main tree. > > I would like to support Tim's request for a community to discuss the > creation and support of non-Solaris zones. Since the framework to > support this will be called BrandX, I suggest that the community also > be called BrandX. Nils-- I'm wondering if we are too closely mirroring the details of Sun's internal organizational hierarchy with our selection of communities. And I think that 'BrandX' is going to feel confusing to folks 24 months down the line, when the memory of that code name is hazy, don't you? Might 'branded-zones' be a logical part of the zones community? I'm concerned that for folks casually browsing, things may otherwise become confusing. We can obviously refactor the zones community site as needed in cooperation with you and your team. As a side note, a single community can support multiple mailing lists, so there would be no problem with having branded-zones-discuss as an alias. Thoughts? -dp -- Daniel Price - Solaris Kernel Engineering - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - blogs.sun.com/dp ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
As Tim mentioned, we are actively working on a framework that will allow for the creation of zones that run non-Solaris user space environments. We are using the term "BrandX" to refer to the framework, and the environments that plug into the framework are called "Brands". We are still quite a way from being ready to put this framework back into Solaris, but it is rapidly approaching the point where it could be usable by those willing to put up with some rough edges. Our plan is to release the code through OpenSolaris in the near future, as a branch off the main tree. I would like to support Tim's request for a community to discuss the creation and support of non-Solaris zones. Since the framework to support this will be called BrandX, I suggest that the community also be called BrandX. Nils Nieuwejaar, Solaris Kernel Development This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
[osol-discuss] Re: New Community Request
Nils Nieuwejaar emailled me with info about the framework they are going to release soon. It sounds like what I want but they are much farther along so I'll see what they post and probably work on that project. No sense re-inventing the wheel. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ opensolaris-discuss mailing list opensolaris-discuss@opensolaris.org
