[Openstack] I18n's meeting tomorrow
Hi, There is OpenStack I18n team meeting at 0100UTC on Thursday in IRC channel #openstack-meeting. The time, we use Asia/America friendly time. Welcome to join the meeting. We will cover following topics this time: Action items from the last meeting Progress with Japanese doc site Wiki page to track the translation jobs and progress Open discussion For more details, please look into https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/I18nTeamMeeting. Again, if you are interested in I18n or OpenStack, welcome to join us. We need translators and developers too. Please contact us through IRC channel #openstack-translation, or mailing address: openstack-i...@list.openstack.org. Please refer to our wiki page for more details: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/I18nTeam Best regards Daisy___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Openstack] OpenStack I18n team meeting tomorrow
Hi, There is OpenStack I18n team meeting at 0700UTC on Thursday in IRC channel #openstack-meeting. The time, we use Europe/India/Asia friendly time. Welcome to join the meeting. We will cover following topics this time: Action items from the last meeting Release of document translation How to enroll more developers How to track issues and blueprints How to track contributors Open discussion For more details, please look into https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/I18nTeamMeeting. Again, if you are interested in I18n or OpenStack, welcome to join us. We need developers, translators and some management roles too. Please contact us through IRC channel #openstack-translation, or mailing address: openstack-i...@list.openstack.org. Please refer to our wiki page for more details: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/I18nTeam Best regards Daisy___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Openstack] I18n team's IRC meeting
Hi, I'm pleased to announce the first IRC meeting of OpenStack I18n team will be held on Thursday, 4th July at 0100 UTC . The OpenStack I18n team will take responsible for the I18n and L10n of OpenStack. Our mission is to make OpenStack ubiquitously accessible to people of all language backgrounds, by providing a framework to create high quality translations, recruiting contributors and actively managing and planning the translation process. We want people all around the world who are interested in I18n or OpenStack can join. The work scope of this team includes: translation of documentation, messages, websites, and etc. I18n tests tools maintenance and enhancements In order to facilitate people to join the discussion, the meeting will be held on each Thursday, but alternately between two different times: Asia and America friendly time, and Europe and India friendly time. For more details, please look into https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/I18nTeamMeeting. Our wiki page is https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/I18nTeam. Welcome to join us! Best regards Ying Chun (Daisy) Guo___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Import professional translations
Hi, I completed the import. Messages' translations of Nova, Glance, Keystone, Quantum and Cinder for 9 languages (de, es, fr, it, ja, ko, pt_BR, zh_CN, zh_TW) have been imported. Now the completion rates of these 9 languages are: Nova - 91% Cinder - 93% Keystone - 89% Quantum - 90% Glance - 76% During this work, I found 1 issue that needs developers to pay attention to. Sometimes when developers define a message containing a string type variable, e.g. The service from servicegroup driver %(driver) is temporarily unavailable. They may forget to add the conversion specifier 's' after the variable. Transifex (or GNU gettext utilities) will regard %(driver) i as a whole expression. The character 'i' is the conversion specifier. It will cause an error during translating Error: The expression '%(driver) i' is not present in the translation. and the translation cannot be saved. Please pay attention to it during the code development. I have reported 3 bugs in code which are found during this work. https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bug/1183733 https://bugs.launchpad.net/quantum/+bug/1183734 https://bugs.launchpad.net/cinder/+bug/1183736 Please verify and fix them. Thanks and regards Ying Chun Guo (Daisy) Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM wrote on 2013/05/15 17:01:10: Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM 2013/05/15 17:01 To openstack-translat...@lists.launchpad.net, openstack@lists.launchpad.net, cc Subject Import professional translations Hi, My company, IBM, has finished the translation of messages in Nova, Glance, Keystone, Quantum and Cinder to 9 languages (de, es, fr, it, ja, ko, pt_BR, zh_CN, zh_TW) for Grizzly, by outsourcing to professional translators. We tend to contribute these translations to community. Some volunteers have done part of the translations in Transifex. The average completion percentage among all these 9 languages is below 20%. If we can merge these professional translations into Transifex, we can improve the completion percentage to a very high number. In my mind, there are several ways to import professional translation to Transifex: 1. Merge the professional version of po files and community version, using the professional version when conflicting. 2. Merge the community version of po files and professional version, using the community version when conflicting. 3. Import the professional translations as translation memory, thus the professional translations will appear as suggestion while volunteers do the translation in Transifex. I prefer the first one, because it can improve the percentage of translation completion very quickly, while the third one needs some time for volunteers to review the strings one by one. What's more, the quality of professional version should be better. I'm going to start this work. If you have any different opinions, please let me know. Regards Ying Chun Guo (Daisy)___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Openstack] Import professional translations
Hi, My company, IBM, has finished the translation of messages in Nova, Glance, Keystone, Quantum and Cinder to 9 languages (de, es, fr, it, ja, ko, pt_BR, zh_CN, zh_TW) for Grizzly, by outsourcing to professional translators. We tend to contribute these translations to community. Some volunteers have done part of the translations in Transifex. The average completion percentage among all these 9 languages is below 20%. If we can merge these professional translations into Transifex, we can improve the completion percentage to a very high number. In my mind, there are several ways to import professional translation to Transifex: 1. Merge the professional version of po files and community version, using the professional version when conflicting. 2. Merge the community version of po files and professional version, using the community version when conflicting. 3. Import the professional translations as translation memory, thus the professional translations will appear as suggestion while volunteers do the translation in Transifex. I prefer the first one, because it can improve the percentage of translation completion very quickly, while the third one needs some time for volunteers to review the strings one by one. What's more, the quality of professional version should be better. I'm going to start this work. If you have any different opinions, please let me know. Regards Ying Chun Guo (Daisy)___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Recruiting - Translation Coordinator
Hi, Now we have gotten volunteers for French, Brazilian Portuguese, Hindi (India), and Spanish. we need more volunteers for Japanese, Spanish, Czech, Vietnamese (Viet Nam), Hungarian, Russian, Italian, Korean (Korea), Turkish (Turkey), and Catalan. Please send me mail if you have interests. Thanks. Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM wrote on 2013/03/26 17:36:07: Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM 2013/03/26 17:36 To openstack@lists.launchpad.net, commun...@lists.openstack.org, cc Subject Recruiting - Translation Coordinator Hi, all Now the translation of OpenStack message strings and documents is managed by Transifex. The access control in Transifex is set as Free for all. Anybody can jump in and contribute to the translation. It's easily to attract translators but it's not good for the quality. In order to ensure the quality of translation, there is a plan to enable the role based access control of OpenStack project in Transifex. This change will need to set up the translation team for each language, including translators, reviewers and coordinators. The coordinators are the leaders of a translation team. They are responsible for the set up of translation team and the control of quality. Now I send this mail to community and call for coordinators. Responsibilities of coordinators include: 1. communicate with translators/reviewers in your team, coordinate the translation and review work among the translators and reviewers in your team. 2. control the quality of translation. Review each auto-generated translation patch in Git review tool. 3. manage the translation memory and glossary for a certain language. 4. communicate with community about requirements, bugs, and issues of translation. People, who want to be a coordinator, don't need to worry about: 1. the size of the translation team. The translation team can grow from small. If there is only 1 people who is contributing to the translation of a certain language, that people could be the coordinator. 2. the usage of tools (Transifex, Git review, and etc.). We have many people who can help you get familiar with the tools. 3. translation experiences and coordinator experiences. The community have people with rich experiences who can give you guidance. If you have passions and time, if you want to contribute to OpenStack translation, feel free to contact with me. Thanks and regards Daisy___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Openstack] Recruiting - Translation Coordinator
Hi, all Now the translation of OpenStack message strings and documents is managed by Transifex. The access control in Transifex is set as Free for all. Anybody can jump in and contribute to the translation. It's easily to attract translators but it's not good for the quality. In order to ensure the quality of translation, there is a plan to enable the role based access control of OpenStack project in Transifex. This change will need to set up the translation team for each language, including translators, reviewers and coordinators. The coordinators are the leaders of a translation team. They are responsible for the set up of translation team and the control of quality. Now I send this mail to community and call for coordinators. Responsibilities of coordinators include: 1. communicate with translators/reviewers in your team, coordinate the translation and review work among the translators and reviewers in your team. 2. control the quality of translation. Review each auto-generated translation patch in Git review tool. 3. manage the translation memory and glossary for a certain language. 4. communicate with community about requirements, bugs, and issues of translation. People, who want to be a coordinator, don't need to worry about: 1. the size of the translation team. The translation team can grow from small. If there is only 1 people who is contributing to the translation of a certain language, that people could be the coordinator. 2. the usage of tools (Transifex, Git review, and etc.). We have many people who can help you get familiar with the tools. 3. translation experiences and coordinator experiences. The community have people with rich experiences who can give you guidance. If you have passions and time, if you want to contribute to OpenStack translation, feel free to contact with me. Thanks and regards Daisy___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Openstack] no PoT file in Quantum project
Hi, I found that there was no PoT file under quantum project and no locale folder in Openstack Folsom stable version. Does quantum support , or have plan to support, any I18N capabilities? If I want to have Folsom to enable I18N, what should I do? Regards Ying Chun Guo (Daisy) China Standards and Open Source Team Emerging Technology Institute (ETI) IBM China Development Lab Tel:(86-10)82453491 Email: guoyi...@cn.ibm.com Address: 1F Tower B, Diamond Building 19 Zhongguancun Software Park, 8 Dongbeiwang West Road, Haidian District, Beijing, P.R.C.100193___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Openstack] nova-translation-* jobs in Jenkins
Dear CI team, I'd like to understand if there are any jobs in Jenkins running to upload and download translations from Transifex. I see some nova-translation-* jobs active, but I cannot figure out which website they are connecting with, Lauchpad or Transifex. Can somebody tell me? Regards Ying Chun Guo (Daisy) China Standards and Open Source Team Emerging Technology Institute (ETI) IBM China Development Lab Tel:(86-10)82453491 Email: guoyi...@cn.ibm.com Address: 1F Tower B, Diamond Building 19 Zhongguancun Software Park, 8 Dongbeiwang West Road, Haidian District, Beijing, P.R.C.100193___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack-doc-core] inviting Ying Chun Guo to join openstack-doc-core
Thank you for your invitation, Anne. I'd love to ! I will try my best to work for openstack documents. My English may be not as good as Chinese. But I have good experience in programming. Besides translation and bug fixing, I also can contribute to doc tools development. For example, I plan to work with CI team to automate document publishing process and translation process as much as possible. Regards Ying Chun Guo (Daisy) annegen...@justwriteclick.com wrote on 07/28/2012 03:08:38 AM: Anne Gentle a...@openstack.org Sent by: annegen...@justwriteclick.com 07/28/2012 03:08 AM To openstack-doc-core@lists.launchpad.net, Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM@IBMCN, cc Subject inviting Ying Chun Guo to join openstack-doc-core Hi all - I'd like to invite Ying Chun Guo (Daisy) to join our team, she has worked both on doc bugs and on a process for translating documentation. Hi Daisy - I hope you'll accept the invitation to join openstack-doc-core. Your contributions have been extremely helpful. Thanks, Anne -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack-doc-core Post to : openstack-doc-core@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack-doc-core More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Openstack] Call for comments and testing: prototype for OpenStack Document translation process
Hi, team I created a prototype of document translation, to verify the whole document translation process: slicing a doc, uploading to transifex, translating, downloading to local disk, merging the translation back into DocBook, and generating translated PDF/HTML. The source codes are in https://github.com/daisy-ycguo/openstack-manuals-i18n. ( It's a copy of openstack-manuals, not the latest version, just for testing ) The document is here: https://gist.github.com/3037139. The translation start point is here: https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/ You can try to create a Chinese version of api-quick-start and openstack-api-programming following the guidance in https://gist.github.com/3037139 as a coordinator. If you meet with any problems, please let me know. Following topics are under discussion: a Whether to use a separate repository for each language I personally don't prefer that, because separate repository will make the synchronization very complex. In this prototype, I only keep the English DocBook and a serials of PO files. The latest Chinese DocBook can be generated from these resources. b How to handle when the original English doc book is updated I'm investigating it. c How to make the process automatically I think we need CI team's help, to see which steps can be integrated with Jenkins. Regards Daisy___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack
Hi, Gabriel Are there any progress or updates with the translation management tools? I tried to slice the manuals into pieces and uploaded the templates to Transifex. I also tried to enable Transifex in the Git repository. All things run well. I will vote for Transifex now. You can try my current effort here: https://www.transifex.net/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/resources/ and welcome for suggestions. Regards Daisy openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net wrote on 05/09/2012 06:15:59 AM: Gabriel Hurley gabriel.hur...@nebula.com Sent by: openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net 05/09/2012 06:15 AM To Ryan Lane rl...@wikimedia.org, cc openstack@lists.launchpad.net openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack Hi Ryan, Thanks for pointing me to TranslateWiki. I'm more than happy to add more tools to the comparison matrix to make sure we make the best choice! I've updated the matrix: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqevw3Q- ErDUdFgzT3VNVXQxd095bFgzODRmajJDeVE At a glance TranslateWiki falls somewhere in the middle, with my biggest concern being the recommended method for re-integrating the translation files into the origin repositories. Other issues stood out as well, but that one was the biggest. As a reminder, the features listed there are not of equal weight, so having more red doesn't necessarily rule any solution out if it's green in critical areas another is lacking. If you think I've misjudged anything, feel free to let me know. All the best, - Gabriel -Original Message- From: Ryan Lane [mailto:rl...@wikimedia.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 2:09 PM To: Gabriel Hurley Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack Tools I know people have strong feelings and concerns on which tools are best and which features matter most, so I've put together a comparison matrix. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqevw3Q- ErDUdFgzT3VNVXQxd 095bFgzODRmajJDeVE It features our current solution (Launchpad) and the top two contenders people have asked me to look at (Pootle and Transifex). The list of features for comparison contains the concerns voiced at the summit session, those voiced by the community to me, those voiced by the infrastructure team, and my own experience working on translations for other open source projects (such as Django). Having worked with all three tools, I would strongly suggest Transifex, particularly given that we as a community have to do almost no work to maintain it, it's the only tool that supports OpenStack as a project hub with shared teams and management, and it offers us a strong crowdsourced translation community. You should also consider translatewiki (translatewiki.org). It's used for a number of very large projects (MediaWiki and extensions used on Wikimedia sites, OpenStreetMap, etc), and it has a large and active translator community. For example, MediaWiki is very actively translated in 100 languages, and has translation for roughly 350 languages total. The translatewiki people are interested in hosting OpenStack since Wikimedia Foundation is using OpenStack products, and translatewiki cares deeply about our language support. In fact, they were the first people to complain about nova's broken utf8 support, which prompted us to push in fixes. - Ryan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack
Hi, Anne See my answers below. Regards Ying Chun Guo (Daisy) annegen...@justwriteclick.com wrote on 06/20/2012 11:01:22 PM: Anne Gentle a...@openstack.org Sent by: annegen...@justwriteclick.com 06/20/2012 11:01 PM To Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM@IBMCN, cc Gabriel Hurley gabriel.hur...@nebula.com, openstack@lists.launchpad.net openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack Hi Daisy - Thanks for all the work. A couple of questions: I thought the plan was to start with install guide(s) only? It looks like you brought in all the openstack-manuals repository as resources. I'd prefer just https://www.transifex.net/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/ resource/openstack-install/ and /common to be the resources for starters. Daisy do we have plans? :)) I generated those PO template by a program. It's very easy to remove some resources at the beginning and add them in the future. I think, the administration guides are as important as the install guide(s) for users. Do you want to focus the translation efforts on a certain document so that we can have one completely translated document much earlier? We may write some sentences in the web page and show our priorities to the translators. Was this content brought in from the stable/essex or master branch? How can a translator know which branch the source is from? Daisy This content is brought from the master branch. I cloned a manuals repository in Github for me to do the test. Transifex has a client which is very similar to a VCS (version control systems) Transifex Client can be integrated into a Git repository. Using this tool and Github, we can manage the different versions of translation files for different branches. Here is a sample for your reference: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_document_with_Transifex If we choose to use Transifex, we can have a similar wiki page to guide translators and users how to work with them. How will updates to the English version of the manuals get into Transifex? Is there a freeze date the English authors need to be aware of? Daisy This need to be considered as we continue the work. For now, I think the most important thing is to build a Maven plugin, which can merge the translation segments back into DocBooks, update a few of the DocBook contents if necessary (for example, add an attribute to DocBook to specify the language), and then generate HTML and PDF as the result. When the Maven plugin is ready, we can be able to build documents in multiple languages with single command. Do you want this plugin to be a part of clouddocs-maven-plugin, or be a new project? I had some experiences in Maven plugin before. I'd like to have a try on that. Are you interested in presenting your translation methods at the APEC conference in Beijing in August? See http://openstack.csdn.net/. We definitely want to make this effort well known. Daisy Yes, I'm interested in. I'm sure Chinese people is eager to have an Chinese version of documents. We are a community. You contribute, you have. After we broadcast it in APEC conference, we will have many more contributors. All potential translators on this mailing list, please let us know your thoughts on this approach - both the tooling and starting with the install guide only. We build for you! Thanks, Anne On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 3:54 AM, Ying Chun Guo guoyi...@cn.ibm.com wrote: Hi, Gabriel Are there any progress or updates with the translation management tools? I tried to slice the manuals into pieces and uploaded the templates to Transifex. I also tried to enable Transifex in the Git repository. All thingsrun well. I will vote for Transifex now. You can try my current effort here: https://www.transifex.net/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/resources/ and welcome for suggestions. Regards Daisy openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net wrote on 05/09/2012 06:15:59 AM: Gabriel Hurley gabriel.hur...@nebula.com Sent by: openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net 05/09/2012 06:15 AM To Ryan Lane rl...@wikimedia.org, cc openstack@lists.launchpad.net openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack Hi Ryan, Thanks for pointing me to TranslateWiki. I'm more than happy to add more tools to the comparison matrix to make sure we make the best choice! I've updated the matrix: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqevw3Q- ErDUdFgzT3VNVXQxd095bFgzODRmajJDeVE At a glance TranslateWiki falls somewhere in the middle, with my biggest concern being the recommended method for re-integrating the translation files into the origin repositories. Other issues stood out as well, but that one was the biggest. As a reminder, the features listed there are not of equal weight, so having more red doesn't
Re: [Openstack] i18n of log message
I18N is an architecture decision. Besides developers, we should also consult customers' options. I18N is a very big scope. It includes not only translation, but also Date/time format, number format, or even the input of non-English characters. Surely I18N will take some efforts. But considering OpenStack may have a long history, it deserve us to pay some time to work on it. We need to consider it carefully. Maybe we can just pick out several very popular locales/languages and work on these localization firstly. It will ensure we have a correct architecture to suppor I18N, with a not very big effort. I'd like to help on the process documenting. Regards Daisy openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net wrote on 05/09/2012 12:55:48 AM: Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org Sent by: openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net 05/09/2012 12:55 AM To openstack@lists.launchpad.net, cc Subject Re: [Openstack] i18n of log message Ying Chun Guo wrote: [...] So I prefer option 2. As it is said that option 3 being not significantly more work than option 2, so option 3 is also acceptable for me. So there is no strong consensus so far :) One important prerequisite of whatever solution we end up choosing is that it should be the same level across all OpenStack core projects. Consistency is important... So we should definitely ask PTLs which options they are ready to support, as it may seriously reduce our options. We should also have a I18N advocacy czar that will push whatever option is chosen to completion by documenting the process, encouraging CI / translators / devs to do any needed work. Anyone up to it ? -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) Release Manager, OpenStack ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] i18n of log message
I will vote option 3, because I think API-user-facing messages is as important as user interface messages. Since the workload of option 3 is not much more than option 2, option 3 will be a better choice. btw, I see documentation, e.g. OpenStack manuals, is excluded in these four options. Does that mean there is no comments against the globalization of documentation? Regards Daisy openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net wrote on 05/02/2012 07:59:11 PM: Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org Sent by: openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net 05/02/2012 07:59 PM To openstack@lists.launchpad.net, cc Subject Re: [Openstack] i18n of log message Andrew Hutchings wrote: This was all actually covered in the i18n talk at the developer's summit: http://etherpad.openstack.org/FolsomI18N The information in there says mailing list says no, feedback from session says yes (especially requested by operators in china) - need a vote? compare to apache projects... Right It was suggested that we do English-only rather than doing a bad job at supporting full I18N. People present in the session raised the specific issue of Chinese operators not being fluent in English, and Vincent (CC-ed) presented a strong case on the mailing-list in a recent thread. The four options were: 0. Only English 1. Horizon being I18N as the user-friendly web interface to OpenStack 2. All API-user-facing messages should be fully I18N 3. Everything (including log messages) should be I18N, introduce error codes to enable cross-language searching The result of the discussion was that the most likely options were (1) and (3) (option 3 being not significantly more work than option 2). An I18N advocacy group would be formed to encourage and push option (3) towards completion. That said, the attendance at that Design Summit session clearly does not represent our whole international user community, so I'm happy to extend the discussion on the ML again. In particular I'm not convinced that OpenStack needs to do a significantly better job at I18N than other significant infrastructure open source software, most of which would limit themselves to option (1) above. 彭勇 wrote: we are guys in China. we have a openstack group more than 500 members. we can promote a vote for this Some indication on how actually necessary this is for Chinese operators would definitely help in motivating the extra work needed on this :) -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) Release Manager, OpenStack ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Proposal for manuals translation process
Hi, Thierry Thank you for response. As I know, Launchpad will automatically make regular commits to a Bazaar branch, exporting MO files. Is that broken? Or, it is your own tool to exports MO files to Github that is broken? How is the workload to fix it? If we are going to use other translation web tool, there is also much workload to customize and install. Daisy openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net wrote on 05/02/2012 11:55:59 PM: Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org Sent by: openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net 05/02/2012 11:55 PM To openstack@lists.launchpad.net, cc Subject Re: [Openstack] Proposal for manuals translation process Ying Chun Guo wrote: Thank you for your comments. I'm glad to know that you are working for a larger goal. I don't know Launchpad is broken with code strings now. What do you mean when you said Launchpad to be broken with code strings now ? Actually it's our tooling around that (and more specifically, I believe, the inclusion of translated strings back into code) that is currently broken. Launchpad Translations itself works quite well (and strings are still getting translated there). The question is whether it's worth fixing it, so we must define our objectives with respect to translations first :) -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) Release Manager, OpenStack ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] i18n of log message
API facing messages, I will call it user-facing API messages, which means, these API is provided for users to invoke, these messages will be used for the interaction with users. For example Glance and Keystone provide command line for users to operate, these command line will invoke user-facing APIs. The output of these user-facing APIs will displayed in the console. These command lines can also be called user interface, i.e. command line interfaces, while Horizon is web user interfaces. (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_interface). The importance of command line interface and web user interface are same. If we want to translate Horizon, we should also translate those user-facing APIs message. So I prefer option 2. As it is said that option 3 being not significantly more work than option 2, so option 3 is also acceptable for me. Regards Daisy Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.com wrote on 05/08/2012 01:46:32 AM: Joshua Harlow harlo...@yahoo-inc.com 05/08/2012 01:46 AM To Andrew Clay Shafer a...@parvuscaptus.com, Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM@IBMCN, cc Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org, openstack openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject Re: [Openstack] i18n of log message I think option 1 is needed, for obvious reasons. API facing messages, not so sure about that, I would say english for those, since they are meant for people interacting with an API and not front-end users. I would think this would be pretty easily solvable by basically following what other open source projects already do. It would be useful possibly to have a survey of other projects and just follow the same pattern?? On 5/7/12 7:53 AM, Andrew Clay Shafer a...@parvuscaptus.com wrote: I would vote for 0 or 1 on the cost versus benefit. Option 0 is the least overhead, but option 1 would be nice for a lot of reasons. The downside to i18n of the logs and errors in the dilution of information available to find solutions can be higher than the benefit of providing messages in a native language. The level of effort is certainly much much higher to provide option 3. I'd vote for effort to go to improving the OpenStack core technology and features over something that adds a lot of overhead and also some downside. On Mon, May 7, 2012 at 3:40 AM, Ying Chun Guo guoyi...@cn.ibm.com wrote: I will vote option 3, because I think API-user-facing messages is as important as user interface messages. Since the workload of option 3 is not much more than option 2, option 3 will be a better choice. btw, I see documentation, e.g. OpenStack manuals, is excluded in these four options. Does that mean there is no comments against the globalization of documentation? Regards Daisy___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Proposal for manuals translation process
I agree that we should define our objectives with respect to translations. And we should also define the criteria of the translation web tool. There are three tools mentioned in the community now: Launchpad, Transifex and Pootle. They have their own characteristics. The strength and the shortage are different. Before we start selection, we need to decide the criteria, and the priorities of the required features. How can we start this work? Shall we start by a vote? Regards Ying Chun Guo (Daisy) China Standards and Open Source Team Emerging Technology Institute (ETI) IBM China Development Lab Tel:(86-10)82453491 Email: guoyi...@cn.ibm.com Address: 1F Tower B, Diamond Building 19 Zhongguancun Software Park, 8 Dongbeiwang West Road, Haidian District, Beijing, P.R.C.100193 openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net wrote on 05/02/2012 11:55:59 PM: Thierry Carrez thie...@openstack.org Sent by: openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net 05/02/2012 11:55 PM To openstack@lists.launchpad.net, cc Subject Re: [Openstack] Proposal for manuals translation process Ying Chun Guo wrote: Thank you for your comments. I'm glad to know that you are working for a larger goal. I don't know Launchpad is broken with code strings now. What do you mean when you said Launchpad to be broken with code strings now ? Actually it's our tooling around that (and more specifically, I believe, the inclusion of translated strings back into code) that is currently broken. Launchpad Translations itself works quite well (and strings are still getting translated there). The question is whether it's worth fixing it, so we must define our objectives with respect to translations first :) -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) Release Manager, OpenStack ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Proposal for manuals translation process
Hi, Anne Thank you for your comments. I'm glad to know that you are working for a larger goal. I don't know Launchpad is broken with code strings now. What do you mean when you said Launchpad to be broken with code strings now? I take a look at Horizon in Transifex. Gabriel Hurley is the coordinator. Can I know the reason why Dashboard turn to Transifex other than Launchpad? Pootle will be a good open source project to look into. It supports a very powerful Terminology matching feature, which can match and list the relevant terminologies at real time. The translation memory feature is not so powerful. Suggested translations from a translation memory must be generated before translation, while Transifex can list suggested translations at real time. I will add the third column in our wiki page. There is a major issue for Pootle that we need to consider. Although Pootle has its official server to host the translation of Pootle UI and related projects, the policy for selecting projects on our official server are not finalised yet. I cannot find a way to register our projects in that official server. So we might need to host our own Pootle server if we use it. Are we able to host our own translation server? I'm not clear whether Pootle supports OpenID. If we are going to host our own Pootle server, maybe we can enhance it and enable the OpenID authentication. Both Launchpad and Transifex, even Pootle, manage the translation review process by their own. I think, the translation quality review shall be done using the translation tool. Gerrit and Jenkins will play an important role in Generating step. I'm not familiar with Gerrit and Jenkins. If my description is wrong, feel free to correct me. After the fourth step Converging, DocBooks in different languages will be generated and submitted to Gerrit for review. Jenkins will run Maven build and upload the generated sources to server. The reviewer ( translation coordinator ) will accept the changes. When I propose the five steps, I only think of manuals translation. Code strings may be a little different. Are there any globalization test in Jenkins? If there is no, we may need to add globalization test. Regards Daisy annegen...@justwriteclick.com wrote on 04/28/2012 03:21:07 AM: Anne Gentle a...@openstack.org Sent by: annegen...@justwriteclick.com 04/28/2012 03:21 AM To Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM@IBMCN, cc openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject Re: [Openstack] Proposal for manuals translation process Hi Daisy, Thanks so much for this detailed proposal. I'd like you to put it on the OpenStack wiki, at http://wiki.openstack.org/Translations. My first read-through and discussion with the CI team brings up a few comments: - Whatever we do for docs, we should also do for code strings. So unfortunately the scope for the Goal probably cannot be so narrow. We know Launchpad to be broken with code strings now, that data point should be reflected in this point-in-time analysis. - Dashboard uses Transifex now (while the other projects unsuccessfully use Launchpad). Tres Henry, can you comment on the number of translators of Dashboard strings you have on the Transifex side already? - Not that I want analysis paralysis, but, we may need to add a third column of a crowd-sourced translation option like Pootle that is familiar to open-source translators. Also, the lack of a translation memory/dictionary (and having to hold such a valuable asset in a wiki page) is troubling, can we also analyze an option that offers a translation dictionary? So much re-use would be available to all the projects. - There seems to be assumptions that Jenkins and Gerrit will just work with out much description of the role those two crucial tools play. Can you further describe the workflow for those in the Slicing, Uploading, Downloading, Converging, and Generating steps? I appreciate all the hard work I _know_ went into this proposal. Let's get it on the wiki, discuss more, and keep adding details. I'd like to make this a blueprint, could be for openstack-manuals, could be for horizon, I don't know yet. Thanks for stepping up and embracing our international community's needs! Thanks, Anne On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 3:45 AM, Ying Chun Guo guoyi...@cn.ibm.com wrote: Hi, all During the I18N in OpenStack discussion in design summit, it is mentioned that documents need to I18N. I also noticed some requests for a Chinese version manuals from China users. But unlike Gettext strings in the codes, there is no process for DocBook translation yet. Translators, who want to help translation, have to take a DocBook into a tool and perform a translation on a copy which will be saved as a new file. This traditional translation model is not good for collaboration. Usually, the open source translation depends on volunteers. It's better to use the crowd translation model, which enables a mass of translators to work on the same job, just like
