[Openstack] The OpenStack Community Welcomes Developers in All Programming Languages
The OpenStack community has been and needs to continue to be a welcoming community for developers in all programming languages. Naturally I’m referring to developers who are building systems on top of OpenStack and not the developers of OpenStack itself. This email is prompted by a minor incident in the #openstack IRC channel. I’m not looking to single people out so I’ll use a pretty generic description so it can’t so easily be found in the IRC logs. A developer came to #openstack to ask a question about a software development kit (SDK) in another programming language. Within 1 minute he got a reply that can only be described as snarky. Undeterred, he went ahead and asked his questions. 20 minutes later a couple of more snarky responses were added to it. No real help at all. It’s not the lack of help that’s at issue though. It’s the unwelcoming attitude. I have not seen that developer in the channel since then. Like I said, a minor incident. I don’t want to blow this out of proportion but it does need to be addressed. It’s one of those cases where you see the cracks start to appear, it’s best to fix them right away before they become real problems. I’m sure we’ve all been part of such chats about languages. When you’re face-to-face or online but know the people personally, it usually goes without saying that it’s good natured. However, when you’re new to a community, it’s not so clear. Of course the OpenStack community is Python-centric but the OpenStack API is not. We need developers from all of the other languages building on top of OpenStack in whatever language they need to work with. Remember, it might not even be their choice! Let’s continue to be good stewards of the OpenStack API and encourage it’s use by all programming languages by being an inclusive and welcoming community. If you ever encounter someone looking for help with another language, you can always point them to the SDKs wiki page [1]. They should be able to find their way from there. Everett [1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/SDKs ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] The OpenStack Community Welcomes Developers in All Programming Languages
On 06/12/2013 10:09 AM, Everett Toews wrote: The OpenStack community has been and needs to continue to be a welcoming community for developers in all programming languages. Naturally I’m referring to developers who are building systems on top of OpenStack and not the developers of OpenStack itself. This email is prompted by a minor incident in the #openstack IRC channel. I’m not looking to single people out so I’ll use a pretty generic description so it can’t so easily be found in the IRC logs. A developer came to #openstack to ask a question about a software development kit (SDK) in another programming language. Within 1 minute he got a reply that can only be described as snarky. Undeterred, he went ahead and asked his questions. 20 minutes later a couple of more snarky responses were added to it. No real help at all. It’s not the lack of help that’s at issue though. It’s the unwelcoming attitude. I have not seen that developer in the channel since then. Like I said, a minor incident. I don’t want to blow this out of proportion but it does need to be addressed. It’s one of those cases where you see the cracks start to appear, it’s best to fix them right away before they become real problems. I’m sure we’ve all been part of such chats about languages. When you’re face-to-face or online but know the people personally, it usually goes without saying that it’s good natured. However, when you’re new to a community, it’s not so clear. Of course the OpenStack community is Python-centric but the OpenStack API is not. We need developers from all of the other languages building on top of OpenStack in whatever language they need to work with. Remember, it might not even be their choice! Let’s continue to be good stewards of the OpenStack API and encourage it’s use by all programming languages by being an inclusive and welcoming community. If you ever encounter someone looking for help with another language, you can always point them to the SDKs wiki page [1]. They should be able to find their way from there. Everett [1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/SDKs Well said, Everett. -jay ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] The OpenStack Community Welcomes Developers in All Programming Languages
On 06/12/2013 07:09 AM, Everett Toews wrote: The OpenStack community has been and needs to continue to be a welcoming community for developers in all programming languages. Indeed. As more public clouds are appearing powered by OpenStack, developers of applications are becoming even more important than before. In fact, I think it's about time we start thinking about specific programs for developers consuming OpenStack. This email is prompted by a minor incident in the #openstack IRC channel. [...] Like I said, a minor incident. I don’t want to blow this out of proportion but it does need to be addressed. How do you suggest to address this issue? My gut feeling is that expecting people on #openstack to behave all the time can be too much of a challenge. I heard often that the channel is not very useful and that's one of the reasons that lead to creating #openstack-101. Maybe we can increase the visibility of such channel, put it on top of the list https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/IRC? If you ever encounter someone looking for help with another language, you can always point them to the SDKs wiki page [1]. They should be able to find their way from there. [1] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/SDKs Great to mention that. Maybe we can think about linking this page directly from the wiki main page https://wiki.openstack.org/. Another thing we could do to help consumers of API (is that a good term?) is to improve the Catalog of OpenStack related projects http://stackmeat.org/, maybe make it an official community project. Other ideas? /stef -- Ask and answer questions on https://ask.openstack.org ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] The OpenStack Community Welcomes Developers in All Programming Languages
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.orgwrote: On 06/12/2013 07:09 AM, Everett Toews wrote: The OpenStack community has been and needs to continue to be a welcoming community for developers in all programming languages. Indeed. As more public clouds are appearing powered by OpenStack, developers of applications are becoming even more important than before. In fact, I think it's about time we start thinking about specific programs for developers consuming OpenStack. This email is prompted by a minor incident in the #openstack IRC channel. [...] Like I said, a minor incident. I don’t want to blow this out of proportion but it does need to be addressed. How do you suggest to address this issue? My gut feeling is that expecting people on #openstack to behave all the time can be too much of a challenge. I heard often that the channel is not very useful and that's one of the reasons that lead to creating #openstack-101. Maybe we can increase the visibility of such channel, put it on top of the list https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/IRC? #openstack-101 will end up having a similar problem. The usual working solution is to find enough people who have a good habit of maintaining positivity and making them moderators, after making sure they share a sense of what's acceptable and how to respond to events of various severity. -- IRC: radix Christopher Armstrong Rackspace ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] The OpenStack Community Welcomes Developers in All Programming Languages
Is there any way we can punish these people in the future? Ban them? Actually, ban doesn't work on public IRC If this happens again, we should just mention their irc nicknames. Some of them reuse the same name on other IRC channels. Why don't we have this in oUR faq? Or do we already have it in the faq? John On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Christopher Armstrong chris.armstr...@rackspace.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.orgwrote: On 06/12/2013 07:09 AM, Everett Toews wrote: The OpenStack community has been and needs to continue to be a welcoming community for developers in all programming languages. Indeed. As more public clouds are appearing powered by OpenStack, developers of applications are becoming even more important than before. In fact, I think it's about time we start thinking about specific programs for developers consuming OpenStack. This email is prompted by a minor incident in the #openstack IRC channel. [...] Like I said, a minor incident. I don’t want to blow this out of proportion but it does need to be addressed. How do you suggest to address this issue? My gut feeling is that expecting people on #openstack to behave all the time can be too much of a challenge. I heard often that the channel is not very useful and that's one of the reasons that lead to creating #openstack-101. Maybe we can increase the visibility of such channel, put it on top of the list https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/IRC? #openstack-101 will end up having a similar problem. The usual working solution is to find enough people who have a good habit of maintaining positivity and making them moderators, after making sure they share a sense of what's acceptable and how to respond to events of various severity. -- IRC: radix Christopher Armstrong Rackspace ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] The OpenStack Community Welcomes Developers in All Programming Languages
Gentlemen, Why don't we think about doing something like Geek on Duty, something that Ceph community does. http://ceph.com/community/ceph-community-expands-geek-on-duty/ Cheers, Syed Armani On Thu, Jun 13, 2013 at 1:49 AM, John Wong gokoproj...@gmail.com wrote: Is there any way we can punish these people in the future? Ban them? Actually, ban doesn't work on public IRC If this happens again, we should just mention their irc nicknames. Some of them reuse the same name on other IRC channels. Why don't we have this in oUR faq? Or do we already have it in the faq? John On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Christopher Armstrong chris.armstr...@rackspace.com wrote: On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 11:32 AM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.org wrote: On 06/12/2013 07:09 AM, Everett Toews wrote: The OpenStack community has been and needs to continue to be a welcoming community for developers in all programming languages. Indeed. As more public clouds are appearing powered by OpenStack, developers of applications are becoming even more important than before. In fact, I think it's about time we start thinking about specific programs for developers consuming OpenStack. This email is prompted by a minor incident in the #openstack IRC channel. [...] Like I said, a minor incident. I don’t want to blow this out of proportion but it does need to be addressed. How do you suggest to address this issue? My gut feeling is that expecting people on #openstack to behave all the time can be too much of a challenge. I heard often that the channel is not very useful and that's one of the reasons that lead to creating #openstack-101. Maybe we can increase the visibility of such channel, put it on top of the list https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/IRC? #openstack-101 will end up having a similar problem. The usual working solution is to find enough people who have a good habit of maintaining positivity and making them moderators, after making sure they share a sense of what's acceptable and how to respond to events of various severity. -- IRC: radix Christopher Armstrong Rackspace ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] The OpenStack Community Welcomes Developers in All Programming Languages
On Wed 12 Jun 2013 01:19:50 PM PDT, John Wong wrote: Is there any way we can punish these people in the future? Let's be clear: we're *nowhere* near having to think about using such measures. I would like to focus the discussion on how we can help developers discover and use the existing SDKs for OpenStack. At this stage I think it is much more important to encourage conversations around consuming OpenStack than to threat people contributing on IRC. I agree with what Christopher/radix said before, that one step is to have more volunteers that hang out on the IRC channels regularly and are helpful. Other ideas? /stef -- Ask and answer questions on https://ask.openstack.org ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] The OpenStack Community Welcomes Developers in All Programming Languages
On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 3:19 PM, John Wong gokoproj...@gmail.com wrote: Is there any way we can punish these people in the future? Ban them? Actually, ban doesn't work on public IRC If this happens again, we should just mention their irc nicknames. Some of them reuse the same name on other IRC channels. Why don't we have this in oUR faq? Or do we already have it in the faq? While banning is certainly possible, I recommend considering it a last resort as much as possible. It's better to try to get people to change their attitude to be more helpful than to remove them from the community entirely. -- IRC: radix Christopher Armstrong Rackspace ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] The OpenStack Community Welcomes Developers in All Programming Languages
On 06/12/2013 05:01 PM, Stefano Maffulli wrote: On Wed 12 Jun 2013 01:19:50 PM PDT, John Wong wrote: Is there any way we can punish these people in the future? Let's be clear: we're *nowhere* near having to think about using such measures. I would like to focus the discussion on how we can help developers discover and use the existing SDKs for OpenStack. At this stage I think it is much more important to encourage conversations around consuming OpenStack than to threat people contributing on IRC. I agree with what Christopher/radix said before, that one step is to have more volunteers that hang out on the IRC channels regularly and are helpful. Other ideas? I'd just +1 on the more volunteers front. We could deputize some folks to make sure they pay attention to the channel and voice them in it. The reality is that with so many channels, #openstack tends to get forgotten by most of the -dev community, so having a concerted effort to have helpful people in there seems like the best approach. -Sean -- Sean Dague http://dague.net ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] The OpenStack Community Welcomes Developers in All Programming Languages
On Jun 12, 2013, at 5:01 PM, Stefano Maffulli wrote: On Wed 12 Jun 2013 01:19:50 PM PDT, John Wong wrote: Is there any way we can punish these people in the future? Let's be clear: we're *nowhere* near having to think about using such measures. +1 on *nowhere* near I tried to write my original email such that things like banning or policies wouldn't even be considered as necessary. It was a minor incident that needed to be addressed but I *really* don't want to see this blown out of proportion. Channel volunteers sounds good to me. I'm not sure that we're even at the point of needing moderators. Everett ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] The OpenStack Community Welcomes Developers in All Programming Languages
On 06/12/2013 02:10 PM, Sean Dague wrote: I'd just +1 on the more volunteers front. We could deputize some folks to make sure they pay attention to the channel and voice them in it. The reality is that with so many channels, #openstack tends to get forgotten by most of the -dev community, so having a concerted effort to have helpful people in there seems like the best approach. Alright. This is now an official topic for the next Community Meeting :) You're welcome to join on Wednesdays at 2300 UTC on #openstack-meeting. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Community#Agenda_for_next_meeting /stef -- Ask and answer questions on https://ask.openstack.org ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] The OpenStack Community Welcomes Developers in All Programming Languages
I am not sure we want to allow python developers... those guys have a PEP for everything. Can't even sit down to a slice of cake without a PEP to tell them how to cut it and a CI environment to make sure their slice is within those PEP defined tolerances. I've had it up to here with those people. -Matt On Wed, Jun 12, 2013 at 6:58 PM, Stefano Maffulli stef...@openstack.orgwrote: On 06/12/2013 02:10 PM, Sean Dague wrote: I'd just +1 on the more volunteers front. We could deputize some folks to make sure they pay attention to the channel and voice them in it. The reality is that with so many channels, #openstack tends to get forgotten by most of the -dev community, so having a concerted effort to have helpful people in there seems like the best approach. Alright. This is now an official topic for the next Community Meeting :) You're welcome to join on Wednesdays at 2300 UTC on #openstack-meeting. https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Community#Agenda_for_next_meeting /stef -- Ask and answer questions on https://ask.openstack.org ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
