Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack
Hi, Gabriel Are there any progress or updates with the translation management tools? I tried to slice the manuals into pieces and uploaded the templates to Transifex. I also tried to enable Transifex in the Git repository. All things run well. I will vote for Transifex now. You can try my current effort here: https://www.transifex.net/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/resources/ and welcome for suggestions. Regards Daisy openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net wrote on 05/09/2012 06:15:59 AM: Gabriel Hurley gabriel.hur...@nebula.com Sent by: openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net 05/09/2012 06:15 AM To Ryan Lane rl...@wikimedia.org, cc openstack@lists.launchpad.net openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack Hi Ryan, Thanks for pointing me to TranslateWiki. I'm more than happy to add more tools to the comparison matrix to make sure we make the best choice! I've updated the matrix: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqevw3Q- ErDUdFgzT3VNVXQxd095bFgzODRmajJDeVE At a glance TranslateWiki falls somewhere in the middle, with my biggest concern being the recommended method for re-integrating the translation files into the origin repositories. Other issues stood out as well, but that one was the biggest. As a reminder, the features listed there are not of equal weight, so having more red doesn't necessarily rule any solution out if it's green in critical areas another is lacking. If you think I've misjudged anything, feel free to let me know. All the best, - Gabriel -Original Message- From: Ryan Lane [mailto:rl...@wikimedia.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 2:09 PM To: Gabriel Hurley Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack Tools I know people have strong feelings and concerns on which tools are best and which features matter most, so I've put together a comparison matrix. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqevw3Q- ErDUdFgzT3VNVXQxd 095bFgzODRmajJDeVE It features our current solution (Launchpad) and the top two contenders people have asked me to look at (Pootle and Transifex). The list of features for comparison contains the concerns voiced at the summit session, those voiced by the community to me, those voiced by the infrastructure team, and my own experience working on translations for other open source projects (such as Django). Having worked with all three tools, I would strongly suggest Transifex, particularly given that we as a community have to do almost no work to maintain it, it's the only tool that supports OpenStack as a project hub with shared teams and management, and it offers us a strong crowdsourced translation community. You should also consider translatewiki (translatewiki.org). It's used for a number of very large projects (MediaWiki and extensions used on Wikimedia sites, OpenStreetMap, etc), and it has a large and active translator community. For example, MediaWiki is very actively translated in 100 languages, and has translation for roughly 350 languages total. The translatewiki people are interested in hosting OpenStack since Wikimedia Foundation is using OpenStack products, and translatewiki cares deeply about our language support. In fact, they were the first people to complain about nova's broken utf8 support, which prompted us to push in fixes. - Ryan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack
Hi Daisy - Thanks for all the work. A couple of questions: I thought the plan was to start with install guide(s) only? It looks like you brought in all the openstack-manuals repository as resources. I'd prefer just https://www.transifex.net/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/resource/openstack-install/ and /common to be the resources for starters. Was this content brought in from the stable/essex or master branch? How can a translator know which branch the source is from? How will updates to the English version of the manuals get into Transifex? Is there a freeze date the English authors need to be aware of? Are you interested in presenting your translation methods at the APEC conference in Beijing in August? See http://openstack.csdn.net/. We definitely want to make this effort well known. All potential translators on this mailing list, please let us know your thoughts on this approach - both the tooling and starting with the install guide only. We build for you! Thanks, Anne On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 3:54 AM, Ying Chun Guo guoyi...@cn.ibm.com wrote: Hi, Gabriel Are there any progress or updates with the translation management tools? I tried to slice the manuals into pieces and uploaded the templates to Transifex. I also tried to enable Transifex in the Git repository. All things run well. I will vote for Transifex now. You can try my current effort here: https://www.transifex.net/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/resources/ and welcome for suggestions. Regards Daisy openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net wrote on 05/09/2012 06:15:59 AM: Gabriel Hurley gabriel.hur...@nebula.com Sent by: openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net 05/09/2012 06:15 AM To Ryan Lane rl...@wikimedia.org, cc openstack@lists.launchpad.net openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack Hi Ryan, Thanks for pointing me to TranslateWiki. I'm more than happy to add more tools to the comparison matrix to make sure we make the best choice! I've updated the matrix: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqevw3Q- ErDUdFgzT3VNVXQxd095bFgzODRmajJDeVE At a glance TranslateWiki falls somewhere in the middle, with my biggest concern being the recommended method for re-integrating the translation files into the origin repositories. Other issues stood out as well, but that one was the biggest. As a reminder, the features listed there are not of equal weight, so having more red doesn't necessarily rule any solution out if it's green in critical areas another is lacking. If you think I've misjudged anything, feel free to let me know. All the best, - Gabriel -Original Message- From: Ryan Lane [mailto:rl...@wikimedia.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 2:09 PM To: Gabriel Hurley Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack Tools I know people have strong feelings and concerns on which tools are best and which features matter most, so I've put together a comparison matrix. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqevw3Q- ErDUdFgzT3VNVXQxd 095bFgzODRmajJDeVE It features our current solution (Launchpad) and the top two contenders people have asked me to look at (Pootle and Transifex). The list of features for comparison contains the concerns voiced at the summit session, those voiced by the community to me, those voiced by the infrastructure team, and my own experience working on translations for other open source projects (such as Django). Having worked with all three tools, I would strongly suggest Transifex, particularly given that we as a community have to do almost no work to maintain it, it's the only tool that supports OpenStack as a project hub with shared teams and management, and it offers us a strong crowdsourced translation community. You should also consider translatewiki (translatewiki.org). It's used for a number of very large projects (MediaWiki and extensions used on Wikimedia sites, OpenStreetMap, etc), and it has a large and active translator community. For example, MediaWiki is very actively translated in 100 languages, and has translation for roughly 350 languages total. The translatewiki people are interested in hosting OpenStack since Wikimedia Foundation is using OpenStack products, and translatewiki cares deeply about our language support. In fact, they were the first people to complain about nova's broken utf8 support, which prompted us to push in fixes. - Ryan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing
Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack
Hi, Anne See my answers below. Regards Ying Chun Guo (Daisy) annegen...@justwriteclick.com wrote on 06/20/2012 11:01:22 PM: Anne Gentle a...@openstack.org Sent by: annegen...@justwriteclick.com 06/20/2012 11:01 PM To Ying Chun Guo/China/IBM@IBMCN, cc Gabriel Hurley gabriel.hur...@nebula.com, openstack@lists.launchpad.net openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack Hi Daisy - Thanks for all the work. A couple of questions: I thought the plan was to start with install guide(s) only? It looks like you brought in all the openstack-manuals repository as resources. I'd prefer just https://www.transifex.net/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/ resource/openstack-install/ and /common to be the resources for starters. Daisy do we have plans? :)) I generated those PO template by a program. It's very easy to remove some resources at the beginning and add them in the future. I think, the administration guides are as important as the install guide(s) for users. Do you want to focus the translation efforts on a certain document so that we can have one completely translated document much earlier? We may write some sentences in the web page and show our priorities to the translators. Was this content brought in from the stable/essex or master branch? How can a translator know which branch the source is from? Daisy This content is brought from the master branch. I cloned a manuals repository in Github for me to do the test. Transifex has a client which is very similar to a VCS (version control systems) Transifex Client can be integrated into a Git repository. Using this tool and Github, we can manage the different versions of translation files for different branches. Here is a sample for your reference: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Setting_up_a_document_with_Transifex If we choose to use Transifex, we can have a similar wiki page to guide translators and users how to work with them. How will updates to the English version of the manuals get into Transifex? Is there a freeze date the English authors need to be aware of? Daisy This need to be considered as we continue the work. For now, I think the most important thing is to build a Maven plugin, which can merge the translation segments back into DocBooks, update a few of the DocBook contents if necessary (for example, add an attribute to DocBook to specify the language), and then generate HTML and PDF as the result. When the Maven plugin is ready, we can be able to build documents in multiple languages with single command. Do you want this plugin to be a part of clouddocs-maven-plugin, or be a new project? I had some experiences in Maven plugin before. I'd like to have a try on that. Are you interested in presenting your translation methods at the APEC conference in Beijing in August? See http://openstack.csdn.net/. We definitely want to make this effort well known. Daisy Yes, I'm interested in. I'm sure Chinese people is eager to have an Chinese version of documents. We are a community. You contribute, you have. After we broadcast it in APEC conference, we will have many more contributors. All potential translators on this mailing list, please let us know your thoughts on this approach - both the tooling and starting with the install guide only. We build for you! Thanks, Anne On Wed, Jun 20, 2012 at 3:54 AM, Ying Chun Guo guoyi...@cn.ibm.com wrote: Hi, Gabriel Are there any progress or updates with the translation management tools? I tried to slice the manuals into pieces and uploaded the templates to Transifex. I also tried to enable Transifex in the Git repository. All thingsrun well. I will vote for Transifex now. You can try my current effort here: https://www.transifex.net/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/resources/ and welcome for suggestions. Regards Daisy openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net wrote on 05/09/2012 06:15:59 AM: Gabriel Hurley gabriel.hur...@nebula.com Sent by: openstack-bounces+guoyingc=cn.ibm@lists.launchpad.net 05/09/2012 06:15 AM To Ryan Lane rl...@wikimedia.org, cc openstack@lists.launchpad.net openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack Hi Ryan, Thanks for pointing me to TranslateWiki. I'm more than happy to add more tools to the comparison matrix to make sure we make the best choice! I've updated the matrix: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqevw3Q- ErDUdFgzT3VNVXQxd095bFgzODRmajJDeVE At a glance TranslateWiki falls somewhere in the middle, with my biggest concern being the recommended method for re-integrating the translation files into the origin repositories. Other issues stood out as well, but that one was the biggest. As a reminder, the features listed there are not of equal weight, so having more red doesn't
Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack
On 06/20/2012 12:24 PM, Ying Chun Guo wrote: Daisy Yes, I'm interested in. I'm sure Chinese people is eager to have an Chinese version of documents. We are a community. You contribute, you have. After we broadcast it in APEC conference, we will have many more contributors. Fantastic: please submit a proposal to the conference organizers (see below). I take this opportunity to advertise the OpenStack APEC event here for others too: August 10th - 11th in Beijing and Shanghai, China OpenStack developers from APEC can meet to discuss OpenStack and to plan ways of working together on promoting OpenStack in enterprises and industries. You can submit your proposal for a talk on http://openstack.csdn.net/speaker_application.html and there are still sponsorship opportunities available on http://openstack.csdn.net/sponsor_application.html Cheers, stef ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack
Thanks Gabriel for the work. I agree with Thierry: On 05/08/2012 09:56 PM, Thierry Carrez wrote: Great! I'm happy to defer the tool decision to the people that will own and push that work forward ;) I like the basic reporting offered by Transifex. Do you know if there is a way to identify the people that do the translations? I couldn't find a way. thanks, stef ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack
On 05/08/2012 09:56 PM, Thierry Carrez wrote: Gabriel Hurley wrote: Having worked with all three tools, I would strongly suggest Transifex, particularly given that we as a community have to do almost no work to maintain it, it's the only tool that supports OpenStack as a project hub with shared teams and management, and it offers us a strong crowdsourced translation community. Getting a strong crowdsourced translation community is the most important aspect to me. We can relatively easily bridge the tooling/integration gap, but we can't invent a translation community :) I know for a fact that Launchpad has a magic translation community (just pushing stuff there makes it translated). If Transifex's community is as efficient and gives us better integration, then we should go for it. As per Thierry's call for volunteers, I will throw my hat in the ring to spearhead translation efforts in OpenStack for the time being. Great! I'm happy to defer the tool decision to the people that will own and push that work forward ;) Same here. Transifex seems like it meets our needs - and if it's got a champion who wants to do the work, then stellar! ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack
Tools I know people have strong feelings and concerns on which tools are best and which features matter most, so I've put together a comparison matrix. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqevw3Q-ErDUdFgzT3VNVXQxd095bFgzODRmajJDeVE It features our current solution (Launchpad) and the top two contenders people have asked me to look at (Pootle and Transifex). The list of features for comparison contains the concerns voiced at the summit session, those voiced by the community to me, those voiced by the infrastructure team, and my own experience working on translations for other open source projects (such as Django). Having worked with all three tools, I would strongly suggest Transifex, particularly given that we as a community have to do almost no work to maintain it, it's the only tool that supports OpenStack as a project hub with shared teams and management, and it offers us a strong crowdsourced translation community. You should also consider translatewiki (translatewiki.org). It's used for a number of very large projects (MediaWiki and extensions used on Wikimedia sites, OpenStreetMap, etc), and it has a large and active translator community. For example, MediaWiki is very actively translated in 100 languages, and has translation for roughly 350 languages total. The translatewiki people are interested in hosting OpenStack since Wikimedia Foundation is using OpenStack products, and translatewiki cares deeply about our language support. In fact, they were the first people to complain about nova's broken utf8 support, which prompted us to push in fixes. - Ryan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack
Hi Ryan, Thanks for pointing me to TranslateWiki. I'm more than happy to add more tools to the comparison matrix to make sure we make the best choice! I've updated the matrix: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqevw3Q-ErDUdFgzT3VNVXQxd095bFgzODRmajJDeVE At a glance TranslateWiki falls somewhere in the middle, with my biggest concern being the recommended method for re-integrating the translation files into the origin repositories. Other issues stood out as well, but that one was the biggest. As a reminder, the features listed there are not of equal weight, so having more red doesn't necessarily rule any solution out if it's green in critical areas another is lacking. If you think I've misjudged anything, feel free to let me know. All the best, - Gabriel -Original Message- From: Ryan Lane [mailto:rl...@wikimedia.org] Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 2:09 PM To: Gabriel Hurley Cc: openstack@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack Tools I know people have strong feelings and concerns on which tools are best and which features matter most, so I've put together a comparison matrix. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aqevw3Q- ErDUdFgzT3VNVXQxd 095bFgzODRmajJDeVE It features our current solution (Launchpad) and the top two contenders people have asked me to look at (Pootle and Transifex). The list of features for comparison contains the concerns voiced at the summit session, those voiced by the community to me, those voiced by the infrastructure team, and my own experience working on translations for other open source projects (such as Django). Having worked with all three tools, I would strongly suggest Transifex, particularly given that we as a community have to do almost no work to maintain it, it's the only tool that supports OpenStack as a project hub with shared teams and management, and it offers us a strong crowdsourced translation community. You should also consider translatewiki (translatewiki.org). It's used for a number of very large projects (MediaWiki and extensions used on Wikimedia sites, OpenStreetMap, etc), and it has a large and active translator community. For example, MediaWiki is very actively translated in 100 languages, and has translation for roughly 350 languages total. The translatewiki people are interested in hosting OpenStack since Wikimedia Foundation is using OpenStack products, and translatewiki cares deeply about our language support. In fact, they were the first people to complain about nova's broken utf8 support, which prompted us to push in fixes. - Ryan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Openstack] Translation and Internationalization in OpenStack
Gabriel Hurley wrote: Having worked with all three tools, I would strongly suggest Transifex, particularly given that we as a community have to do almost no work to maintain it, it's the only tool that supports OpenStack as a project hub with shared teams and management, and it offers us a strong crowdsourced translation community. Getting a strong crowdsourced translation community is the most important aspect to me. We can relatively easily bridge the tooling/integration gap, but we can't invent a translation community :) I know for a fact that Launchpad has a magic translation community (just pushing stuff there makes it translated). If Transifex's community is as efficient and gives us better integration, then we should go for it. As per Thierry's call for volunteers, I will throw my hat in the ring to spearhead translation efforts in OpenStack for the time being. Great! I'm happy to defer the tool decision to the people that will own and push that work forward ;) -- Thierry Carrez (ttx) Release Manager, OpenStack ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openstack Post to : openstack@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openstack More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
