Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Josh, We can generate options, if folks who need/want it are not here to do the necessary work, not much we can do :( -- dims On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Joshua Harlow harlo...@outlook.com wrote: Flavio Percoco wrote: On 22/06/15 12:43 -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Adam Young's message of 2015-06-22 11:26:54 -0700: On 06/20/2015 10:28 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: As promissed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193804/ Cheers, You can't deprecate a driver without providing a viable alternative. Right now, QPID is the only driver that supports Kerberos. TO support Kerberos, tyou need support for the GSSAPI library, which is usually done via support for SASL. Why is it so convoluted...historical... We've talked with both teams (I work with Ken) and I think Proton is likely going to be the first to have support. The folks working on Rabbit have the double hurdle of getting SASL support into Erlang first, and then support for SASL into Rabbit. They've indicated a preference for getting it in to the AMQP 1.0 driver, and not bothering with the exisiting, but, check me on this, the Oso.Messaging code only support the pre 1.0 Rabbit. So..until we have a viable alternative, please leave QPID alone. I've not been bothering people about it, as there seems to be work to get ahead, but until either Rabbit or Proton support Kerberos, I need QPID as is. Adam that is all great information, thank you. However, the policy is clear: commit resources for integration testing, or it needs to move out of tree. It's not a mountain of resources. Just an integration test that passes reliably, and a couple of QPID+OpenStack experts who we can contact when it breaks. If nobody is willing to put that much effort in, then it is not really something we want in our official messaging library tree. So please if you can carry that message up to those who want it to stay in tree, that would be helpful and would put the stops on this deprecation. Agreed with the above. I'd also like to add that it was also discussed with folks previously maintaining the qpid driver what their plans with that work were and the agreement of deprecating it was reached with them. Just to note, something that may be acceptable for people that need this, and don't mind doing a little bit of work to maintain it out of tree. It appears the kombu qpid driver does have SASL support (from a quick glance at the code): - https://github.com/celery/kombu/blob/master/kombu/transport/qpid.py#L1250 - https://github.com/celery/kombu/blob/master/kombu/transport/qpid.py#L1210 So until this gets resolved and/or maintained it appears folks could just use the one built-in to kombu (assuming it works)? If the oslo.messaging 'impl_rabbit.py' one was more of a kombu 'wrapper' (and renamed 'impl_kombu.py'?) than this might have been even easier to support/make possible. Food for thought :) I know this doesn't solve the current problem of not having kerberos support but it clears that this discussion has been had already. That said, the point being raised is very good and unfortunate. Cheers, Flavio __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
On 22/06/15 12:43 -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Adam Young's message of 2015-06-22 11:26:54 -0700: On 06/20/2015 10:28 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: As promissed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193804/ Cheers, You can't deprecate a driver without providing a viable alternative. Right now, QPID is the only driver that supports Kerberos. TO support Kerberos, tyou need support for the GSSAPI library, which is usually done via support for SASL. Why is it so convoluted...historical... We've talked with both teams (I work with Ken) and I think Proton is likely going to be the first to have support. The folks working on Rabbit have the double hurdle of getting SASL support into Erlang first, and then support for SASL into Rabbit. They've indicated a preference for getting it in to the AMQP 1.0 driver, and not bothering with the exisiting, but, check me on this, the Oso.Messaging code only support the pre 1.0 Rabbit. So..until we have a viable alternative, please leave QPID alone. I've not been bothering people about it, as there seems to be work to get ahead, but until either Rabbit or Proton support Kerberos, I need QPID as is. Adam that is all great information, thank you. However, the policy is clear: commit resources for integration testing, or it needs to move out of tree. It's not a mountain of resources. Just an integration test that passes reliably, and a couple of QPID+OpenStack experts who we can contact when it breaks. If nobody is willing to put that much effort in, then it is not really something we want in our official messaging library tree. So please if you can carry that message up to those who want it to stay in tree, that would be helpful and would put the stops on this deprecation. Agreed with the above. I'd also like to add that it was also discussed with folks previously maintaining the qpid driver what their plans with that work were and the agreement of deprecating it was reached with them. I know this doesn't solve the current problem of not having kerberos support but it clears that this discussion has been had already. That said, the point being raised is very good and unfortunate. Cheers, Flavio __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco pgpq_zrNRSEVp.pgp Description: PGP signature __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Flavio Percoco wrote: On 22/06/15 12:43 -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Adam Young's message of 2015-06-22 11:26:54 -0700: On 06/20/2015 10:28 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: As promissed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193804/ Cheers, You can't deprecate a driver without providing a viable alternative. Right now, QPID is the only driver that supports Kerberos. TO support Kerberos, tyou need support for the GSSAPI library, which is usually done via support for SASL. Why is it so convoluted...historical... We've talked with both teams (I work with Ken) and I think Proton is likely going to be the first to have support. The folks working on Rabbit have the double hurdle of getting SASL support into Erlang first, and then support for SASL into Rabbit. They've indicated a preference for getting it in to the AMQP 1.0 driver, and not bothering with the exisiting, but, check me on this, the Oso.Messaging code only support the pre 1.0 Rabbit. So..until we have a viable alternative, please leave QPID alone. I've not been bothering people about it, as there seems to be work to get ahead, but until either Rabbit or Proton support Kerberos, I need QPID as is. Adam that is all great information, thank you. However, the policy is clear: commit resources for integration testing, or it needs to move out of tree. It's not a mountain of resources. Just an integration test that passes reliably, and a couple of QPID+OpenStack experts who we can contact when it breaks. If nobody is willing to put that much effort in, then it is not really something we want in our official messaging library tree. So please if you can carry that message up to those who want it to stay in tree, that would be helpful and would put the stops on this deprecation. Agreed with the above. I'd also like to add that it was also discussed with folks previously maintaining the qpid driver what their plans with that work were and the agreement of deprecating it was reached with them. Just to note, something that may be acceptable for people that need this, and don't mind doing a little bit of work to maintain it out of tree. It appears the kombu qpid driver does have SASL support (from a quick glance at the code): - https://github.com/celery/kombu/blob/master/kombu/transport/qpid.py#L1250 - https://github.com/celery/kombu/blob/master/kombu/transport/qpid.py#L1210 So until this gets resolved and/or maintained it appears folks could just use the one built-in to kombu (assuming it works)? If the oslo.messaging 'impl_rabbit.py' one was more of a kombu 'wrapper' (and renamed 'impl_kombu.py'?) than this might have been even easier to support/make possible. Food for thought :) I know this doesn't solve the current problem of not having kerberos support but it clears that this discussion has been had already. That said, the point being raised is very good and unfortunate. Cheers, Flavio __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
On 23/06/15 08:30 -0700, Joshua Harlow wrote: Flavio Percoco wrote: On 22/06/15 12:43 -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Adam Young's message of 2015-06-22 11:26:54 -0700: On 06/20/2015 10:28 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: As promissed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193804/ Cheers, You can't deprecate a driver without providing a viable alternative. Right now, QPID is the only driver that supports Kerberos. TO support Kerberos, tyou need support for the GSSAPI library, which is usually done via support for SASL. Why is it so convoluted...historical... We've talked with both teams (I work with Ken) and I think Proton is likely going to be the first to have support. The folks working on Rabbit have the double hurdle of getting SASL support into Erlang first, and then support for SASL into Rabbit. They've indicated a preference for getting it in to the AMQP 1.0 driver, and not bothering with the exisiting, but, check me on this, the Oso.Messaging code only support the pre 1.0 Rabbit. So..until we have a viable alternative, please leave QPID alone. I've not been bothering people about it, as there seems to be work to get ahead, but until either Rabbit or Proton support Kerberos, I need QPID as is. Adam that is all great information, thank you. However, the policy is clear: commit resources for integration testing, or it needs to move out of tree. It's not a mountain of resources. Just an integration test that passes reliably, and a couple of QPID+OpenStack experts who we can contact when it breaks. If nobody is willing to put that much effort in, then it is not really something we want in our official messaging library tree. So please if you can carry that message up to those who want it to stay in tree, that would be helpful and would put the stops on this deprecation. Agreed with the above. I'd also like to add that it was also discussed with folks previously maintaining the qpid driver what their plans with that work were and the agreement of deprecating it was reached with them. Just to note, something that may be acceptable for people that need this, and don't mind doing a little bit of work to maintain it out of tree. It appears the kombu qpid driver does have SASL support (from a quick glance at the code): - https://github.com/celery/kombu/blob/master/kombu/transport/qpid.py#L1250 - https://github.com/celery/kombu/blob/master/kombu/transport/qpid.py#L1210 So until this gets resolved and/or maintained it appears folks could just use the one built-in to kombu (assuming it works)? If the oslo.messaging 'impl_rabbit.py' one was more of a kombu 'wrapper' (and renamed 'impl_kombu.py'?) than this might have been even easier to support/make possible. TBH, I'm more for making the impl_rabbit driver more rabbit-focused rather than more kombu-focused. Using kombu for it is great and I wouldn't advice to move away from it (not in the short run at least). But if there are changes that we can do to make it more rabbit specific, I'd be all for that. Cheers, Flavio Food for thought :) I know this doesn't solve the current problem of not having kerberos support but it clears that this discussion has been had already. That said, the point being raised is very good and unfortunate. Cheers, Flavio __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco pgpU4Zqgf6Qpy.pgp Description: PGP signature __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Flavio Percoco wrote: On 23/06/15 08:30 -0700, Joshua Harlow wrote: Flavio Percoco wrote: On 22/06/15 12:43 -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Adam Young's message of 2015-06-22 11:26:54 -0700: On 06/20/2015 10:28 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: As promissed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193804/ Cheers, You can't deprecate a driver without providing a viable alternative. Right now, QPID is the only driver that supports Kerberos. TO support Kerberos, tyou need support for the GSSAPI library, which is usually done via support for SASL. Why is it so convoluted...historical... We've talked with both teams (I work with Ken) and I think Proton is likely going to be the first to have support. The folks working on Rabbit have the double hurdle of getting SASL support into Erlang first, and then support for SASL into Rabbit. They've indicated a preference for getting it in to the AMQP 1.0 driver, and not bothering with the exisiting, but, check me on this, the Oso.Messaging code only support the pre 1.0 Rabbit. So..until we have a viable alternative, please leave QPID alone. I've not been bothering people about it, as there seems to be work to get ahead, but until either Rabbit or Proton support Kerberos, I need QPID as is. Adam that is all great information, thank you. However, the policy is clear: commit resources for integration testing, or it needs to move out of tree. It's not a mountain of resources. Just an integration test that passes reliably, and a couple of QPID+OpenStack experts who we can contact when it breaks. If nobody is willing to put that much effort in, then it is not really something we want in our official messaging library tree. So please if you can carry that message up to those who want it to stay in tree, that would be helpful and would put the stops on this deprecation. Agreed with the above. I'd also like to add that it was also discussed with folks previously maintaining the qpid driver what their plans with that work were and the agreement of deprecating it was reached with them. Just to note, something that may be acceptable for people that need this, and don't mind doing a little bit of work to maintain it out of tree. It appears the kombu qpid driver does have SASL support (from a quick glance at the code): - https://github.com/celery/kombu/blob/master/kombu/transport/qpid.py#L1250 - https://github.com/celery/kombu/blob/master/kombu/transport/qpid.py#L1210 So until this gets resolved and/or maintained it appears folks could just use the one built-in to kombu (assuming it works)? If the oslo.messaging 'impl_rabbit.py' one was more of a kombu 'wrapper' (and renamed 'impl_kombu.py'?) than this might have been even easier to support/make possible. TBH, I'm more for making the impl_rabbit driver more rabbit-focused rather than more kombu-focused. Using kombu for it is great and I wouldn't advice to move away from it (not in the short run at least). But if there are changes that we can do to make it more rabbit specific, I'd be all for that. Cheers, Flavio Understood, I see the benefit of going both ways and I am fine with however it turns out... Food for thought :) I know this doesn't solve the current problem of not having kerberos support but it clears that this discussion has been had already. That said, the point being raised is very good and unfortunate. Cheers, Flavio __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Davanum Srinivas wrote: Josh, We can generate options, if folks who need/want it are not here to do the necessary work, not much we can do :( True dat, u are very wise :-) -- dims On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Joshua Harlowharlo...@outlook.com wrote: Flavio Percoco wrote: On 22/06/15 12:43 -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Adam Young's message of 2015-06-22 11:26:54 -0700: On 06/20/2015 10:28 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: As promissed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193804/ Cheers, You can't deprecate a driver without providing a viable alternative. Right now, QPID is the only driver that supports Kerberos. TO support Kerberos, tyou need support for the GSSAPI library, which is usually done via support for SASL. Why is it so convoluted...historical... We've talked with both teams (I work with Ken) and I think Proton is likely going to be the first to have support. The folks working on Rabbit have the double hurdle of getting SASL support into Erlang first, and then support for SASL into Rabbit. They've indicated a preference for getting it in to the AMQP 1.0 driver, and not bothering with the exisiting, but, check me on this, the Oso.Messaging code only support the pre 1.0 Rabbit. So..until we have a viable alternative, please leave QPID alone. I've not been bothering people about it, as there seems to be work to get ahead, but until either Rabbit or Proton support Kerberos, I need QPID as is. Adam that is all great information, thank you. However, the policy is clear: commit resources for integration testing, or it needs to move out of tree. It's not a mountain of resources. Just an integration test that passes reliably, and a couple of QPID+OpenStack experts who we can contact when it breaks. If nobody is willing to put that much effort in, then it is not really something we want in our official messaging library tree. So please if you can carry that message up to those who want it to stay in tree, that would be helpful and would put the stops on this deprecation. Agreed with the above. I'd also like to add that it was also discussed with folks previously maintaining the qpid driver what their plans with that work were and the agreement of deprecating it was reached with them. Just to note, something that may be acceptable for people that need this, and don't mind doing a little bit of work to maintain it out of tree. It appears the kombu qpid driver does have SASL support (from a quick glance at the code): - https://github.com/celery/kombu/blob/master/kombu/transport/qpid.py#L1250 - https://github.com/celery/kombu/blob/master/kombu/transport/qpid.py#L1210 So until this gets resolved and/or maintained it appears folks could just use the one built-in to kombu (assuming it works)? If the oslo.messaging 'impl_rabbit.py' one was more of a kombu 'wrapper' (and renamed 'impl_kombu.py'?) than this might have been even easier to support/make possible. Food for thought :) I know this doesn't solve the current problem of not having kerberos support but it clears that this discussion has been had already. That said, the point being raised is very good and unfortunate. Cheers, Flavio __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
On Mon, Jun 22, 2015 at 2:27 PM Adam Young ayo...@redhat.com wrote: On 06/20/2015 10:28 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: As promissed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193804/ Cheers, You can't deprecate a driver without providing a viable alternative. Right now, QPID is the only driver that supports Kerberos. TO support Kerberos, tyou need support for the GSSAPI library, which is usually done via support for SASL. Why is it so convoluted...historical... We've talked with both teams (I work with Ken) and I think Proton is likely going to be the first to have support. The folks working on Rabbit have the double hurdle of getting SASL support into Erlang first, and then support for SASL into Rabbit. They've indicated a preference for getting it in to the AMQP 1.0 driver, and not bothering with the exisiting, but, check me on this, the Oso.Messaging code only support the pre 1.0 Rabbit. So..until we have a viable alternative, please leave QPID alone. I've not been bothering people about it, as there seems to be work to get ahead, but until either Rabbit or Proton support Kerberos, I need QPID as is. Re: proton - Kerberos support is in progress upstream [0],[1], but as you point out it's not yet available. That blocks kerberos support for the amqp1.0 driver. Once proton does release that, and the amqp1.0 driver adopts it, you'll be able to migrate to the amqp1.0 driver and continue to work with the QPID broker (as long as the version of the QPID broker supports AMQP 1.0). That doesn't help you now, but it is something to plan for. [0]https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PROTON-334 [1]https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/PROTON-911 __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
On 06/20/2015 10:28 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: As promissed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193804/ Cheers, You can't deprecate a driver without providing a viable alternative. Right now, QPID is the only driver that supports Kerberos. TO support Kerberos, tyou need support for the GSSAPI library, which is usually done via support for SASL. Why is it so convoluted...historical... We've talked with both teams (I work with Ken) and I think Proton is likely going to be the first to have support. The folks working on Rabbit have the double hurdle of getting SASL support into Erlang first, and then support for SASL into Rabbit. They've indicated a preference for getting it in to the AMQP 1.0 driver, and not bothering with the exisiting, but, check me on this, the Oso.Messaging code only support the pre 1.0 Rabbit. So..until we have a viable alternative, please leave QPID alone. I've not been bothering people about it, as there seems to be work to get ahead, but until either Rabbit or Proton support Kerberos, I need QPID as is. __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Excerpts from Adam Young's message of 2015-06-22 11:26:54 -0700: On 06/20/2015 10:28 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: As promissed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193804/ Cheers, You can't deprecate a driver without providing a viable alternative. Right now, QPID is the only driver that supports Kerberos. TO support Kerberos, tyou need support for the GSSAPI library, which is usually done via support for SASL. Why is it so convoluted...historical... We've talked with both teams (I work with Ken) and I think Proton is likely going to be the first to have support. The folks working on Rabbit have the double hurdle of getting SASL support into Erlang first, and then support for SASL into Rabbit. They've indicated a preference for getting it in to the AMQP 1.0 driver, and not bothering with the exisiting, but, check me on this, the Oso.Messaging code only support the pre 1.0 Rabbit. So..until we have a viable alternative, please leave QPID alone. I've not been bothering people about it, as there seems to be work to get ahead, but until either Rabbit or Proton support Kerberos, I need QPID as is. Adam that is all great information, thank you. However, the policy is clear: commit resources for integration testing, or it needs to move out of tree. It's not a mountain of resources. Just an integration test that passes reliably, and a couple of QPID+OpenStack experts who we can contact when it breaks. If nobody is willing to put that much effort in, then it is not really something we want in our official messaging library tree. So please if you can carry that message up to those who want it to stay in tree, that would be helpful and would put the stops on this deprecation. __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
On 19/06/15 15:01 +, Ken Giusti wrote: On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 2:15 AM Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 18/06/15 16:37 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Clint Byrum's message of 2015-06-18 12:47:21 -0700: Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. +1 qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. +1 - I believe Ken and the other folks interested in this indicated that the AMQP 1.0 driver should replace this one. The qpid driver should be deprecated, I'll be doing so in the next couple of days. Look forward to the patch. +1 As promissed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/193804/ Cheers, Flavio Speaking of AMQP 1.0, you don't mention that one (it uses qpid, but is separate from the driver named qpid). I'd like to clarify something about the AMQP 1.0 driver. It's not a direct replacement for the qpidd one because it uses an entirely different protocol that recently became a standard. The reason I mention this is because it doesn't really require qpidd - not the double d - which is the broker daemon in the qpid family. I guess the confusion comes because the library it sits on top off is called qpid-proton. The qpid family is a set of tools that provide messaging capabilities. Among those you find qpidd (broker daemon), qpid-proton (amqp1.0 library), qpid-dispatch (message router). It's confusing indeed. The importance of this distinction is that the amqp1.0 driver in oslo.messaging is intended as a protocol based driver and not targetting any technology. That is to say, that it could be written using a library that is not qpid-proton and it can talk to any message router or message broker that has support for amqp 1.0. +1 - yeah, we really shouldn't be considering the amqp1 driver as simply the replacement qpid driver - as Flavio points out it has the potential to provide compatibility with other messaging back ends. Clint - can you also include separate metrics for the amqp1 driver? The ones we're targetting for the gate are rabbitmq (with the amqp 1.0 plugin enabled) and qpidd. Since we're at it, let me share some updates: The driver unittests now run on every python2 job and the work on python3 is almost done. There's also a functional tests gate like we have for other drivers. The missing bit is an integration gate, which we'll be start working on in the next couple of days. Hope the above helps clarifying confusions around this driver. zmq - Unit test coverage is 74%. There are no currently active integration tests in OpenStack's infrastructure. Several individuals have self identified as being willing to work on creating them. We have not had the conversations yet about ongoing support. I recommend we continue to support their effort to become policy compliant. If that does not solidify by M3 of Liberty, or if the new zmq driver appears with integration tests and support manpower, then we can deprecate at that time. +1 - I know interest has been growing in this, so let's keep it going and see where we end up. There's also the question of _how_ to deprecate them. I figure we should deprecate when the driver is loaded. Is there an existing mechanism that someone can point me to, or should I look at adding that to oslo.messaging/stevedore? Normally we would recommend using versionutils from oslo.log, but we've been trying to avoid making oslo.log a dependency of the oslo libs because it uses some of them and that introduces cycles. Dims had a patch recently that just used a DeprecationWarning, and relied on oslo.log to redirect the warning to the log file. That seems like a good pattern to repeat. Can we use debtcollector to decorate the main driver class? A warning will be printted every time an
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
On 19/06/15 13:43 -0700, Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Flavio Percoco's message of 2015-06-18 23:14:49 -0700: [snip] I'd like to clarify something about the AMQP 1.0 driver. It's not a direct replacement for the qpidd one because it uses an entirely different protocol that recently became a standard. Could you clarify where the code actually is, or more specifically, why the code doesn't follow the same organization as the others? There's no impl_amqp and the tests don't live in tests/drivers, but in tests/test_amqp_driver. I left it out because I didn't realize this new driver lived in tree. As Ken mentioned in a different email, the amqp driver was created as a protocol specific driver rather than a technology (as in software) based driver. Therefore, at the time, it was decided to put it in a different package to separate it from others. Now that you mentioned this, we could really move out of protocols and rename the `amqp` package into `impl_amqp` but still keep it as a package. TBH, I prefer using packages to organize these drivers since some of them (or all?) require more than one module to be implemented. Anyway, this driver appears to land in the prospective drivers category in the spec. We failed to call out drivers that are still considered experimental, however I kind of feel like the driver should be out of tree until such time as it is usable enough that it _could_ have an integration test. So, is it feasible that this driver will fall in-line with the others in the next 6 months, or should we be looking at either revising the policy, or moving it out of tree until it is capable of that? Yes, I'm confident this will happen. It went from having a single gate running funcitonal tests to running unittests in all gates but python3 (this will be solved in the next week or two) and the original functional gate. The team is working on adding an integrated gate for this driver as well. If by the time the freeze is coming the driver is still not running integrated tests, I'd agree on removing it. As it stands right now, it is moving on the right direction. [snip] Can we use debtcollector to decorate the main driver class? A warning will be printted every time an instance of such class is created (rather than at import time). If we don't want to add a dependency on that, we could just use a DeprecationWarning as Doug mentioned. From a user perspective, as long as it only warns once per invocation of the consuming process (so it should warn when nova-conductor starts, not when nova-conductor sends a message), then I think we should just use DeprecationWarning's because they're relatively simple. Unless I'm missing something magical that debtcollector does. I don't think you're missing anything. I'm asking because this is what debtcollator was created for. -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco pgpo1NrEhDH8v.pgp Description: PGP signature __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
On 19/06/15 15:01 +, Ken Giusti wrote: On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 2:15 AM Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 18/06/15 16:37 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Clint Byrum's message of 2015-06-18 12:47:21 -0700: Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. +1 qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. +1 - I believe Ken and the other folks interested in this indicated that the AMQP 1.0 driver should replace this one. The qpid driver should be deprecated, I'll be doing so in the next couple of days. Look forward to the patch. +1 Speaking of AMQP 1.0, you don't mention that one (it uses qpid, but is separate from the driver named qpid). I'd like to clarify something about the AMQP 1.0 driver. It's not a direct replacement for the qpidd one because it uses an entirely different protocol that recently became a standard. The reason I mention this is because it doesn't really require qpidd - not the double d - which is the broker daemon in the qpid family. I guess the confusion comes because the library it sits on top off is called qpid-proton. The qpid family is a set of tools that provide messaging capabilities. Among those you find qpidd (broker daemon), qpid-proton (amqp1.0 library), qpid-dispatch (message router). It's confusing indeed. The importance of this distinction is that the amqp1.0 driver in oslo.messaging is intended as a protocol based driver and not targetting any technology. That is to say, that it could be written using a library that is not qpid-proton and it can talk to any message router or message broker that has support for amqp 1.0. +1 - yeah, we really shouldn't be considering the amqp1 driver as simply the replacement qpid driver - as Flavio points out it has the potential to provide compatibility with other messaging back ends. Clint - can you also include separate metrics for the amqp1 driver? oslo_messaging/_drivers/protocols/amqp/controller 302 46 0 80 18 82% oslo_messaging/_drivers/protocols/amqp/driver 134 13 0 28 6 88% oslo_messaging/_drivers/protocols/amqp/drivertasks 52 5 0 8 2 85% oslo_messaging/_drivers/protocols/amqp/eventloop 195 43 0 64 18 71% Cheers, Flavio The ones we're targetting for the gate are rabbitmq (with the amqp 1.0 plugin enabled) and qpidd. Since we're at it, let me share some updates: The driver unittests now run on every python2 job and the work on python3 is almost done. There's also a functional tests gate like we have for other drivers. The missing bit is an integration gate, which we'll be start working on in the next couple of days. Hope the above helps clarifying confusions around this driver. zmq - Unit test coverage is 74%. There are no currently active integration tests in OpenStack's infrastructure. Several individuals have self identified as being willing to work on creating them. We have not had the conversations yet about ongoing support. I recommend we continue to support their effort to become policy compliant. If that does not solidify by M3 of Liberty, or if the new zmq driver appears with integration tests and support manpower, then we can deprecate at that time. +1 - I know interest has been growing in this, so let's keep it going and see where we end up. There's also the question of _how_ to deprecate them. I figure we should deprecate when the driver is loaded. Is there an existing mechanism that someone can point me to, or should I look at adding that to oslo.messaging/stevedore? Normally we would recommend using versionutils from oslo.log, but we've been trying to avoid making oslo.log a dependency of the oslo libs because it uses some of them and that introduces cycles. Dims had a patch recently that just used a DeprecationWarning, and relied
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Excerpts from Ken Giusti's message of 2015-06-19 08:01:46 -0700: On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 2:15 AM Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 18/06/15 16:37 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Clint Byrum's message of 2015-06-18 12:47:21 -0700: Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. +1 qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. +1 - I believe Ken and the other folks interested in this indicated that the AMQP 1.0 driver should replace this one. The qpid driver should be deprecated, I'll be doing so in the next couple of days. Look forward to the patch. +1 Speaking of AMQP 1.0, you don't mention that one (it uses qpid, but is separate from the driver named qpid). I'd like to clarify something about the AMQP 1.0 driver. It's not a direct replacement for the qpidd one because it uses an entirely different protocol that recently became a standard. The reason I mention this is because it doesn't really require qpidd - not the double d - which is the broker daemon in the qpid family. I guess the confusion comes because the library it sits on top off is called qpid-proton. The qpid family is a set of tools that provide messaging capabilities. Among those you find qpidd (broker daemon), qpid-proton (amqp1.0 library), qpid-dispatch (message router). It's confusing indeed. The importance of this distinction is that the amqp1.0 driver in oslo.messaging is intended as a protocol based driver and not targetting any technology. That is to say, that it could be written using a library that is not qpid-proton and it can talk to any message router or message broker that has support for amqp 1.0. +1 - yeah, we really shouldn't be considering the amqp1 driver as simply the replacement qpid driver - as Flavio points out it has the potential to provide compatibility with other messaging back ends. Clint - can you also include separate metrics for the amqp1 driver? It's far less clear to me how to measure the unit test coverage of the amqp driver. I'll wait for Flavio's answer to my question about where the code lives, because it is definitely not organized like the others. __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Excerpts from Flavio Percoco's message of 2015-06-18 23:14:49 -0700: On 18/06/15 16:37 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Clint Byrum's message of 2015-06-18 12:47:21 -0700: Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. +1 qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. +1 - I believe Ken and the other folks interested in this indicated that the AMQP 1.0 driver should replace this one. The qpid driver should be deprecated, I'll be doing so in the next couple of days. Look forward to the patch. Speaking of AMQP 1.0, you don't mention that one (it uses qpid, but is separate from the driver named qpid). I'd like to clarify something about the AMQP 1.0 driver. It's not a direct replacement for the qpidd one because it uses an entirely different protocol that recently became a standard. Could you clarify where the code actually is, or more specifically, why the code doesn't follow the same organization as the others? There's no impl_amqp and the tests don't live in tests/drivers, but in tests/test_amqp_driver. I left it out because I didn't realize this new driver lived in tree. Anyway, this driver appears to land in the prospective drivers category in the spec. We failed to call out drivers that are still considered experimental, however I kind of feel like the driver should be out of tree until such time as it is usable enough that it _could_ have an integration test. So, is it feasible that this driver will fall in-line with the others in the next 6 months, or should we be looking at either revising the policy, or moving it out of tree until it is capable of that? The reason I mention this is because it doesn't really require qpidd - not the double d - which is the broker daemon in the qpid family. I guess the confusion comes because the library it sits on top off is called qpid-proton. The qpid family is a set of tools that provide messaging capabilities. Among those you find qpidd (broker daemon), qpid-proton (amqp1.0 library), qpid-dispatch (message router). It's confusing indeed. The importance of this distinction is that the amqp1.0 driver in oslo.messaging is intended as a protocol based driver and not targetting any technology. That is to say, that it could be written using a library that is not qpid-proton and it can talk to any message router or message broker that has support for amqp 1.0. The ones we're targetting for the gate are rabbitmq (with the amqp 1.0 plugin enabled) and qpidd. Since we're at it, let me share some updates: The driver unittests now run on every python2 job and the work on python3 is almost done. There's also a functional tests gate like we have for other drivers. The missing bit is an integration gate, which we'll be start working on in the next couple of days. Hope the above helps clarifying confusions around this driver. That definitely clarifies the vision, thanks for sharing. There's also the question of _how_ to deprecate them. I figure we should deprecate when the driver is loaded. Is there an existing mechanism that someone can point me to, or should I look at adding that to oslo.messaging/stevedore? Normally we would recommend using versionutils from oslo.log, but we've been trying to avoid making oslo.log a dependency of the oslo libs because it uses some of them and that introduces cycles. Dims had a patch recently that just used a DeprecationWarning, and relied on oslo.log to redirect the warning to the log file. That seems like a good pattern to repeat. Can we use debtcollector to decorate the main driver class? A warning will be printted every time an instance of such class is created (rather than at import time). If we don't want to add a dependency on that, we could just use a DeprecationWarning as Doug mentioned. From a user perspective, as long as it only warns once per invocation of the consuming process (so it should warn when nova-conductor starts, not when
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 4:47 PM Clint Byrum cl...@fewbar.com wrote: Excerpts from Ken Giusti's message of 2015-06-19 08:01:46 -0700: On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 2:15 AM Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 18/06/15 16:37 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Clint Byrum's message of 2015-06-18 12:47:21 -0700: Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. +1 qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. +1 - I believe Ken and the other folks interested in this indicated that the AMQP 1.0 driver should replace this one. The qpid driver should be deprecated, I'll be doing so in the next couple of days. Look forward to the patch. +1 Speaking of AMQP 1.0, you don't mention that one (it uses qpid, but is separate from the driver named qpid). I'd like to clarify something about the AMQP 1.0 driver. It's not a direct replacement for the qpidd one because it uses an entirely different protocol that recently became a standard. The reason I mention this is because it doesn't really require qpidd - not the double d - which is the broker daemon in the qpid family. I guess the confusion comes because the library it sits on top off is called qpid-proton. The qpid family is a set of tools that provide messaging capabilities. Among those you find qpidd (broker daemon), qpid-proton (amqp1.0 library), qpid-dispatch (message router). It's confusing indeed. The importance of this distinction is that the amqp1.0 driver in oslo.messaging is intended as a protocol based driver and not targetting any technology. That is to say, that it could be written using a library that is not qpid-proton and it can talk to any message router or message broker that has support for amqp 1.0. +1 - yeah, we really shouldn't be considering the amqp1 driver as simply the replacement qpid driver - as Flavio points out it has the potential to provide compatibility with other messaging back ends. Clint - can you also include separate metrics for the amqp1 driver? It's far less clear to me how to measure the unit test coverage of the amqp driver. I'll wait for Flavio's answer to my question about where the code lives, because it is definitely not organized like the others. No, it isn't. At the time we proposed this structure for the amqp1 driver, there really wasn't much formal structure within the driver directory. We had impl_rabbit, which was copied to impl_qpid in the hopes that all the rest of the code could be shared (it didn't work out very well). And the zmq code wasn't working at the time. And all of it was crammed into one flat directory. Rather than heap yet more stuff into that directory, we proposed to put the amqp1 driver into its own sub-directory. We chose a 'protocols' subdirectory, into which the amqp1 driver lives in the 'amqp' subdirectory. The hope was that other protocols would put their implementation bits into that protocols directory rather than lump them in directly under _drivers. It looks like the zmq driver will be structured a bit different from that - there will be a top level impl_zmq file along side a zmq_driver directory. I like the way zmq has laid out the sources, and maybe that should be the 'official' structure to olso.messaging drivers. If that's the case I'll be more that happy to arrange the amqp1 driver in a similar manner. I've gone off into the weeds, sorry. The amqp1 driver lives in _drivers/protocols/amqp directory (for now). And yes, those unit tests should be in the tests/drivers directory like everything else - when the tests/drivers directory was created that file wasn't moved. Oversight - I'll submit a patch to fix it. As far as coverage testing is concerned - I'm not sure how best to do this accurately. The amqp1 driver doesn't use any of the code in amqpdriver.py, amqp.py, common.py (I think),
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Clint Byrum wrote: Excerpts from Flavio Percoco's message of 2015-06-18 23:14:49 -0700: On 18/06/15 16:37 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Clint Byrum's message of 2015-06-18 12:47:21 -0700: Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. +1 qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. +1 - I believe Ken and the other folks interested in this indicated that the AMQP 1.0 driver should replace this one. The qpid driver should be deprecated, I'll be doing so in the next couple of days. Look forward to the patch. Speaking of AMQP 1.0, you don't mention that one (it uses qpid, but is separate from the driver named qpid). I'd like to clarify something about the AMQP 1.0 driver. It's not a direct replacement for the qpidd one because it uses an entirely different protocol that recently became a standard. Could you clarify where the code actually is, or more specifically, why the code doesn't follow the same organization as the others? There's no impl_amqp and the tests don't live in tests/drivers, but in tests/test_amqp_driver. I left it out because I didn't realize this new driver lived in tree. Anyway, this driver appears to land in the prospective drivers category in the spec. We failed to call out drivers that are still considered experimental, however I kind of feel like the driver should be out of tree until such time as it is usable enough that it _could_ have an integration test. So, is it feasible that this driver will fall in-line with the others in the next 6 months, or should we be looking at either revising the policy, or moving it out of tree until it is capable of that? The reason I mention this is because it doesn't really require qpidd - not the double d - which is the broker daemon in the qpid family. I guess the confusion comes because the library it sits on top off is called qpid-proton. The qpid family is a set of tools that provide messaging capabilities. Among those you find qpidd (broker daemon), qpid-proton (amqp1.0 library), qpid-dispatch (message router). It's confusing indeed. The importance of this distinction is that the amqp1.0 driver in oslo.messaging is intended as a protocol based driver and not targetting any technology. That is to say, that it could be written using a library that is not qpid-proton and it can talk to any message router or message broker that has support for amqp 1.0. The ones we're targetting for the gate are rabbitmq (with the amqp 1.0 plugin enabled) and qpidd. Since we're at it, let me share some updates: The driver unittests now run on every python2 job and the work on python3 is almost done. There's also a functional tests gate like we have for other drivers. The missing bit is an integration gate, which we'll be start working on in the next couple of days. Hope the above helps clarifying confusions around this driver. That definitely clarifies the vision, thanks for sharing. There's also the question of _how_ to deprecate them. I figure we should deprecate when the driver is loaded. Is there an existing mechanism that someone can point me to, or should I look at adding that to oslo.messaging/stevedore? Normally we would recommend using versionutils from oslo.log, but we've been trying to avoid making oslo.log a dependency of the oslo libs because it uses some of them and that introduces cycles. Dims had a patch recently that just used a DeprecationWarning, and relied on oslo.log to redirect the warning to the log file. That seems like a good pattern to repeat. Can we use debtcollector to decorate the main driver class? A warning will be printted every time an instance of such class is created (rather than at import time). If we don't want to add a dependency on that, we could just use a DeprecationWarning as Doug mentioned. From a user perspective, as long as it only warns once per invocation of the consuming process (so it should warn when nova-conductor starts, not when nova-conductor sends a message), then I think we should just use DeprecationWarning's
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
On 18/06/15 16:37 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Clint Byrum's message of 2015-06-18 12:47:21 -0700: Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. +1 qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. +1 - I believe Ken and the other folks interested in this indicated that the AMQP 1.0 driver should replace this one. The qpid driver should be deprecated, I'll be doing so in the next couple of days. Look forward to the patch. Speaking of AMQP 1.0, you don't mention that one (it uses qpid, but is separate from the driver named qpid). I'd like to clarify something about the AMQP 1.0 driver. It's not a direct replacement for the qpidd one because it uses an entirely different protocol that recently became a standard. The reason I mention this is because it doesn't really require qpidd - not the double d - which is the broker daemon in the qpid family. I guess the confusion comes because the library it sits on top off is called qpid-proton. The qpid family is a set of tools that provide messaging capabilities. Among those you find qpidd (broker daemon), qpid-proton (amqp1.0 library), qpid-dispatch (message router). It's confusing indeed. The importance of this distinction is that the amqp1.0 driver in oslo.messaging is intended as a protocol based driver and not targetting any technology. That is to say, that it could be written using a library that is not qpid-proton and it can talk to any message router or message broker that has support for amqp 1.0. The ones we're targetting for the gate are rabbitmq (with the amqp 1.0 plugin enabled) and qpidd. Since we're at it, let me share some updates: The driver unittests now run on every python2 job and the work on python3 is almost done. There's also a functional tests gate like we have for other drivers. The missing bit is an integration gate, which we'll be start working on in the next couple of days. Hope the above helps clarifying confusions around this driver. zmq - Unit test coverage is 74%. There are no currently active integration tests in OpenStack's infrastructure. Several individuals have self identified as being willing to work on creating them. We have not had the conversations yet about ongoing support. I recommend we continue to support their effort to become policy compliant. If that does not solidify by M3 of Liberty, or if the new zmq driver appears with integration tests and support manpower, then we can deprecate at that time. +1 - I know interest has been growing in this, so let's keep it going and see where we end up. There's also the question of _how_ to deprecate them. I figure we should deprecate when the driver is loaded. Is there an existing mechanism that someone can point me to, or should I look at adding that to oslo.messaging/stevedore? Normally we would recommend using versionutils from oslo.log, but we've been trying to avoid making oslo.log a dependency of the oslo libs because it uses some of them and that introduces cycles. Dims had a patch recently that just used a DeprecationWarning, and relied on oslo.log to redirect the warning to the log file. That seems like a good pattern to repeat. Can we use debtcollector to decorate the main driver class? A warning will be printted every time an instance of such class is created (rather than at import time). If we don't want to add a dependency on that, we could just use a DeprecationWarning as Doug mentioned. Doug [1] http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-specs/specs/supported-messaging-drivers.html __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev -- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco pgpRxjxkSBOzd.pgp Description: PGP signature __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
On 06/19/2015 07:14 AM, Flavio Percoco wrote: The qpid family is a set of tools that provide messaging capabilities. Among those you find qpidd (broker daemon), qpid-proton (amqp1.0 library), qpid-dispatch (message router). It's confusing indeed. Apache Qpid is an Apache Software Foundation project aiming to help promote the AMQP protocol by open, collaborative development of libraries, services and tools that use it. It includes many different components now. So the 'qpid' in the name of the different components denotes the community from which they originated. Hopefully that makes it less confusing. __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 2:15 AM Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 18/06/15 16:37 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Clint Byrum's message of 2015-06-18 12:47:21 -0700: Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. +1 qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. +1 - I believe Ken and the other folks interested in this indicated that the AMQP 1.0 driver should replace this one. The qpid driver should be deprecated, I'll be doing so in the next couple of days. Look forward to the patch. +1 Speaking of AMQP 1.0, you don't mention that one (it uses qpid, but is separate from the driver named qpid). I'd like to clarify something about the AMQP 1.0 driver. It's not a direct replacement for the qpidd one because it uses an entirely different protocol that recently became a standard. The reason I mention this is because it doesn't really require qpidd - not the double d - which is the broker daemon in the qpid family. I guess the confusion comes because the library it sits on top off is called qpid-proton. The qpid family is a set of tools that provide messaging capabilities. Among those you find qpidd (broker daemon), qpid-proton (amqp1.0 library), qpid-dispatch (message router). It's confusing indeed. The importance of this distinction is that the amqp1.0 driver in oslo.messaging is intended as a protocol based driver and not targetting any technology. That is to say, that it could be written using a library that is not qpid-proton and it can talk to any message router or message broker that has support for amqp 1.0. +1 - yeah, we really shouldn't be considering the amqp1 driver as simply the replacement qpid driver - as Flavio points out it has the potential to provide compatibility with other messaging back ends. Clint - can you also include separate metrics for the amqp1 driver? The ones we're targetting for the gate are rabbitmq (with the amqp 1.0 plugin enabled) and qpidd. Since we're at it, let me share some updates: The driver unittests now run on every python2 job and the work on python3 is almost done. There's also a functional tests gate like we have for other drivers. The missing bit is an integration gate, which we'll be start working on in the next couple of days. Hope the above helps clarifying confusions around this driver. zmq - Unit test coverage is 74%. There are no currently active integration tests in OpenStack's infrastructure. Several individuals have self identified as being willing to work on creating them. We have not had the conversations yet about ongoing support. I recommend we continue to support their effort to become policy compliant. If that does not solidify by M3 of Liberty, or if the new zmq driver appears with integration tests and support manpower, then we can deprecate at that time. +1 - I know interest has been growing in this, so let's keep it going and see where we end up. There's also the question of _how_ to deprecate them. I figure we should deprecate when the driver is loaded. Is there an existing mechanism that someone can point me to, or should I look at adding that to oslo.messaging/stevedore? Normally we would recommend using versionutils from oslo.log, but we've been trying to avoid making oslo.log a dependency of the oslo libs because it uses some of them and that introduces cycles. Dims had a patch recently that just used a DeprecationWarning, and relied on oslo.log to redirect the warning to the log file. That seems like a good pattern to repeat. Can we use debtcollector to decorate the main driver class? A warning will be printted every time an instance of such class is created (rather than at import time). If we don't want to add a dependency on that, we could just use a DeprecationWarning as Doug mentioned. Doug [1] http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-specs/specs/supported-messaging-drivers.html
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Flavio Percoco wrote: On 18/06/15 16:37 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Clint Byrum's message of 2015-06-18 12:47:21 -0700: Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. +1 qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. +1 - I believe Ken and the other folks interested in this indicated that the AMQP 1.0 driver should replace this one. The qpid driver should be deprecated, I'll be doing so in the next couple of days. Look forward to the patch. Speaking of AMQP 1.0, you don't mention that one (it uses qpid, but is separate from the driver named qpid). I'd like to clarify something about the AMQP 1.0 driver. It's not a direct replacement for the qpidd one because it uses an entirely different protocol that recently became a standard. The reason I mention this is because it doesn't really require qpidd - not the double d - which is the broker daemon in the qpid family. I guess the confusion comes because the library it sits on top off is called qpid-proton. The qpid family is a set of tools that provide messaging capabilities. Among those you find qpidd (broker daemon), qpid-proton (amqp1.0 library), qpid-dispatch (message router). It's confusing indeed. The importance of this distinction is that the amqp1.0 driver in oslo.messaging is intended as a protocol based driver and not targetting any technology. That is to say, that it could be written using a library that is not qpid-proton and it can talk to any message router or message broker that has support for amqp 1.0. The ones we're targetting for the gate are rabbitmq (with the amqp 1.0 plugin enabled) and qpidd. Since we're at it, let me share some updates: The driver unittests now run on every python2 job and the work on python3 is almost done. There's also a functional tests gate like we have for other drivers. The missing bit is an integration gate, which we'll be start working on in the next couple of days. Hope the above helps clarifying confusions around this driver. zmq - Unit test coverage is 74%. There are no currently active integration tests in OpenStack's infrastructure. Several individuals have self identified as being willing to work on creating them. We have not had the conversations yet about ongoing support. I recommend we continue to support their effort to become policy compliant. If that does not solidify by M3 of Liberty, or if the new zmq driver appears with integration tests and support manpower, then we can deprecate at that time. +1 - I know interest has been growing in this, so let's keep it going and see where we end up. There's also the question of _how_ to deprecate them. I figure we should deprecate when the driver is loaded. Is there an existing mechanism that someone can point me to, or should I look at adding that to oslo.messaging/stevedore? Normally we would recommend using versionutils from oslo.log, but we've been trying to avoid making oslo.log a dependency of the oslo libs because it uses some of them and that introduces cycles. Dims had a patch recently that just used a DeprecationWarning, and relied on oslo.log to redirect the warning to the log file. That seems like a good pattern to repeat. Can we use debtcollector to decorate the main driver class? A warning will be printted every time an instance of such class is created (rather than at import time). Seems fair to me: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/debtcollector/api.html#debtcollector.removals.remove (which itself uses a deprecation warning...). If we don't want to add a dependency on that, we could just use a DeprecationWarning as Doug mentioned. Doug [1] http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-specs/specs/supported-messaging-drivers.html __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Excerpts from Flavio Percoco's message of 2015-06-19 08:14:49 +0200: On 18/06/15 16:37 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Clint Byrum's message of 2015-06-18 12:47:21 -0700: Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. +1 qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. +1 - I believe Ken and the other folks interested in this indicated that the AMQP 1.0 driver should replace this one. The qpid driver should be deprecated, I'll be doing so in the next couple of days. Look forward to the patch. Speaking of AMQP 1.0, you don't mention that one (it uses qpid, but is separate from the driver named qpid). I'd like to clarify something about the AMQP 1.0 driver. It's not a direct replacement for the qpidd one because it uses an entirely different protocol that recently became a standard. The reason I mention this is because it doesn't really require qpidd - not the double d - which is the broker daemon in the qpid family. I guess the confusion comes because the library it sits on top off is called qpid-proton. The qpid family is a set of tools that provide messaging capabilities. Among those you find qpidd (broker daemon), qpid-proton (amqp1.0 library), qpid-dispatch (message router). It's confusing indeed. The importance of this distinction is that the amqp1.0 driver in oslo.messaging is intended as a protocol based driver and not targetting any technology. That is to say, that it could be written using a library that is not qpid-proton and it can talk to any message router or message broker that has support for amqp 1.0. The ones we're targetting for the gate are rabbitmq (with the amqp 1.0 plugin enabled) and qpidd. Since we're at it, let me share some updates: The driver unittests now run on every python2 job and the work on python3 is almost done. There's also a functional tests gate like we have for other drivers. The missing bit is an integration gate, which we'll be start working on in the next couple of days. Hope the above helps clarifying confusions around this driver. zmq - Unit test coverage is 74%. There are no currently active integration tests in OpenStack's infrastructure. Several individuals have self identified as being willing to work on creating them. We have not had the conversations yet about ongoing support. I recommend we continue to support their effort to become policy compliant. If that does not solidify by M3 of Liberty, or if the new zmq driver appears with integration tests and support manpower, then we can deprecate at that time. +1 - I know interest has been growing in this, so let's keep it going and see where we end up. There's also the question of _how_ to deprecate them. I figure we should deprecate when the driver is loaded. Is there an existing mechanism that someone can point me to, or should I look at adding that to oslo.messaging/stevedore? Normally we would recommend using versionutils from oslo.log, but we've been trying to avoid making oslo.log a dependency of the oslo libs because it uses some of them and that introduces cycles. Dims had a patch recently that just used a DeprecationWarning, and relied on oslo.log to redirect the warning to the log file. That seems like a good pattern to repeat. Can we use debtcollector to decorate the main driver class? A warning will be printted every time an instance of such class is created (rather than at import time). debtcollector was originally meant to be used for developer-facing deprecations, but if we can make it emit messages indicating the release cycle when the driver is going to be fully dropped, it might be the right answer. If we don't want to add a dependency on that, we could just use a DeprecationWarning as Doug mentioned. The dependencies are only a concern to me if we introduce a cycle, so as long as that doesn't happen I would be fine with us using debtcollector. Doug Doug [1]
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Excerpts from Ken Giusti's message of 2015-06-19 15:01:46 +: On Fri, Jun 19, 2015 at 2:15 AM Flavio Percoco fla...@redhat.com wrote: On 18/06/15 16:37 -0400, Doug Hellmann wrote: Excerpts from Clint Byrum's message of 2015-06-18 12:47:21 -0700: Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. +1 qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. +1 - I believe Ken and the other folks interested in this indicated that the AMQP 1.0 driver should replace this one. The qpid driver should be deprecated, I'll be doing so in the next couple of days. Look forward to the patch. +1 Speaking of AMQP 1.0, you don't mention that one (it uses qpid, but is separate from the driver named qpid). I'd like to clarify something about the AMQP 1.0 driver. It's not a direct replacement for the qpidd one because it uses an entirely different protocol that recently became a standard. The reason I mention this is because it doesn't really require qpidd - not the double d - which is the broker daemon in the qpid family. I guess the confusion comes because the library it sits on top off is called qpid-proton. The qpid family is a set of tools that provide messaging capabilities. Among those you find qpidd (broker daemon), qpid-proton (amqp1.0 library), qpid-dispatch (message router). It's confusing indeed. The importance of this distinction is that the amqp1.0 driver in oslo.messaging is intended as a protocol based driver and not targetting any technology. That is to say, that it could be written using a library that is not qpid-proton and it can talk to any message router or message broker that has support for amqp 1.0. +1 - yeah, we really shouldn't be considering the amqp1 driver as simply the replacement qpid driver - as Flavio points out it has the potential to provide compatibility with other messaging back ends. OK, sorry for my confusion on that and thanks to you and Flavio for clarifying. Clint - can you also include separate metrics for the amqp1 driver? The ones we're targetting for the gate are rabbitmq (with the amqp 1.0 plugin enabled) and qpidd. Since we're at it, let me share some updates: The driver unittests now run on every python2 job and the work on python3 is almost done. There's also a functional tests gate like we have for other drivers. The missing bit is an integration gate, which we'll be start working on in the next couple of days. Hope the above helps clarifying confusions around this driver. zmq - Unit test coverage is 74%. There are no currently active integration tests in OpenStack's infrastructure. Several individuals have self identified as being willing to work on creating them. We have not had the conversations yet about ongoing support. I recommend we continue to support their effort to become policy compliant. If that does not solidify by M3 of Liberty, or if the new zmq driver appears with integration tests and support manpower, then we can deprecate at that time. +1 - I know interest has been growing in this, so let's keep it going and see where we end up. There's also the question of _how_ to deprecate them. I figure we should deprecate when the driver is loaded. Is there an existing mechanism that someone can point me to, or should I look at adding that to oslo.messaging/stevedore? Normally we would recommend using versionutils from oslo.log, but we've been trying to avoid making oslo.log a dependency of the oslo libs because it uses some of them and that introduces cycles. Dims had a patch recently that just used a DeprecationWarning, and relied on oslo.log to redirect the warning to the log file. That seems like a good pattern to repeat. Can we use debtcollector to decorate the main driver class? A warning will be printted every time an instance of such class is created (rather than at
[openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. zmq - Unit test coverage is 74%. There are no currently active integration tests in OpenStack's infrastructure. Several individuals have self identified as being willing to work on creating them. We have not had the conversations yet about ongoing support. I recommend we continue to support their effort to become policy compliant. If that does not solidify by M3 of Liberty, or if the new zmq driver appears with integration tests and support manpower, then we can deprecate at that time. There's also the question of _how_ to deprecate them. I figure we should deprecate when the driver is loaded. Is there an existing mechanism that someone can point me to, or should I look at adding that to oslo.messaging/stevedore? [1] http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-specs/specs/supported-messaging-drivers.html __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
Re: [openstack-dev] [all] [qpid] [zmq] [RabbitMQ] [oslo] Pending deprecation of driver(s).
Excerpts from Clint Byrum's message of 2015-06-18 12:47:21 -0700: Hello! I know there's been a lot of churn and misunderstanding over the recent devstack changes, so I wanted to make it clear where we're going with messaging drivers now that the policy [1] was approved. According to the policy, drivers need to have at least 60% unit test coverage, and an integration test suite with at least 3 popular OpenStack projects, with preference for Nova, Cinder, and Glance, and individuals who will support said test suite. So, with that, the following is the status of each driver in tree right now: rabbit - 89% Unit test coverage. Being the default in devstack, and the default in nearly every project's config files, this one is heavily integration tested. There are multiple individuals who have proven to be able to debug failures related to RabbitMQ and are well known in the community. +1 qpid - Unit test coverage is at 77%, so it passes that bar. I cannot find any integration testing being done, so it fails that. I also have not found anyone who will step up and support it. So this should be deprecated immediately. +1 - I believe Ken and the other folks interested in this indicated that the AMQP 1.0 driver should replace this one. Speaking of AMQP 1.0, you don't mention that one (it uses qpid, but is separate from the driver named qpid). zmq - Unit test coverage is 74%. There are no currently active integration tests in OpenStack's infrastructure. Several individuals have self identified as being willing to work on creating them. We have not had the conversations yet about ongoing support. I recommend we continue to support their effort to become policy compliant. If that does not solidify by M3 of Liberty, or if the new zmq driver appears with integration tests and support manpower, then we can deprecate at that time. +1 - I know interest has been growing in this, so let's keep it going and see where we end up. There's also the question of _how_ to deprecate them. I figure we should deprecate when the driver is loaded. Is there an existing mechanism that someone can point me to, or should I look at adding that to oslo.messaging/stevedore? Normally we would recommend using versionutils from oslo.log, but we've been trying to avoid making oslo.log a dependency of the oslo libs because it uses some of them and that introduces cycles. Dims had a patch recently that just used a DeprecationWarning, and relied on oslo.log to redirect the warning to the log file. That seems like a good pattern to repeat. Doug [1] http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-specs/specs/supported-messaging-drivers.html __ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
